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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:28:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Hate to hear that but it sounds like you got a couple jack asses on the hook. Not good for you or your buddy. And not starting up any cop bashing: but there are cops out there that are, . . . .well..... jackasses. I'm perplexed (to say the least) if this is the most embarrassing thing to ever happen to you. If you were bump firing at a public range, well you might say that you brought unwanted attention to yourself. The cops up that way are known "Fishermen". They have a bad reputation for "Fishing". I know a few folks who have personally been harrassed and probably by the same fuckwads. Good Luck on the ban. Theres a local range that I refuse to go to myself (and its the closest to my house , like 5 mins away) and will drive about 30 mins just to frequent a "nicer" range. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:29:12 PM EDT
[#2]
The folks at Dietz have always been pretty nice, but they are definitely NOT black rifle friendly, and the rule is one shot per second. And I try to honor that, it's their place. But I have been known to dump a 30rd mag in 31 seconds from a standing position or empty 3mags of G30 pretty quick, if you know what I am saying. And I've heard the smart remarks from the staff, "Is he hitting anything?" followed up with "Actually, yes he is" from another which basically caused them to STFU.
What I'd be pissed about is the dropped gun, that's bullshit. If it's damaged, they need to fix it. And the folks at Dietz could have just asked about the gun instead of calling the cops. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:30:10 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:30:31 PM EDT
[#4]
Fuck Dietz, you have my support. I have officially boycotted the bastards!
They are not very shooter friendly. Just a bunch of old assed mf'ers that shoot slow fire all day long, then they sit there and comment about their shot groups. I watch them shoot one round, bullshit for an hour and then shoot another one off. Then they go back inside jerk off and repeat the process. The range upkeep is pure shit and is the worst range I have ever shot at. The staff there are a bunch of mental dinosaurs and can only process one thought per minute. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:31:04 PM EDT
[#5]
So what do you do when a cop asks "Do you have any weapons in your vehicle?" and you just got back from the range or something?
Do you say "No," or "I refuse to comment," or just "None of your business"? I ask because I have been pulled over a few times with weapons in the car, and at first I used to just admit that I had them and it'd be cool, but according to advice, I should never let on that I do, so lately I just lie. What to do? |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:32:01 PM EDT
[#6]
must have changed since I was there last. They had a seperate range for class 3. We shot a mini 14 in 223 and a G3 in 308. and by the way, highway 46 is not a major interstate highway. I shoot my AR 15 at Dietz all the time and don't have a lick of trouble. It jammed up on me once and they cleared it for me. Lots of nice folks there. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:32:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Here's the info:
Dietz Gun Shop 421 Range Road New Braunfels, Texas (830) 885-4662 Note: Howard Dietz is a recognized authority and gunsmith specializing in benchrest accuracy work. He has a commercial range with target lines for pistol and rifle out to 200 yards. Ain't Google great? |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:33:43 PM EDT
[#8]
I agree that he made a big mkistake by not seeing the posted rules, and bumpfiring. However. When asked to stop bumpfiring, he did. The asshat range owner knew exactly what sort of shit he was stirring up when he called the LEO. Some folks don't allow class 3 on their ranges. I do. If you have a copy of your paperwork. To each his own. Some people don't tell me they're gonna shoot class 3 before they go in. They just light it up. When they come out, I politely ask them if they would show me a copy of their paperwork. If they refuse or don't have it, that's fine. I simply inform them that while they are welcome anytime, their class 3 weapons are not, until I have seen paperwork. I'm not naive. I know there's plenty of kitchen table Mac 10s and shit out there. And I don't want it in my range, But it's not my job to police the tax laws. I find it more than effective to ask them to simply not do something, or to not bring it back. I've never had someone not comply. On the other hand, if they refuse, then it might indeed be time to involve LEO. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:43:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Yeah what are the laws saying if a cop asks "what weapons do you have in the car?"
Should you say "I'm not talking without my lawyer?" Say nothing? Also if you are pulled over I have been told its good to get out of you car so the police do not have reason to walk up and nose around inside the windows. I've seen it often enough on TV, but how to cops react to that kind of thing? -1 for consenting to the search. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:45:31 PM EDT
[#10]
I'll add that there is no room for mistakes with gun play and these folks don't want people "making dead" at their range.
If he did infact miss the "Posted Rules" then, thats another big mistake I wouldn't look lightly on. That was a clear cut violation of a posted rule. If you can't read: you don't need to be shooting. All that horse hockey aside, I say if they damaged your goods, that you should make it known. There should be a field office of the FBI around the Austin area that will field your call. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 3:52:41 PM EDT
[#11]
How is an officer a JBT automatically for investigating a firearms related complaint? Grow up already. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:01:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Say nothing, deny consent, make them burn up resources and make themseleves look like foolish wasteful asses in the end. Not like we have a million illegal immigrants pouring over the border every month, or a million child molesters released from jail every year. Or a bunch of illegal-alien supported meth labs to support them. Play it up in the papers, turn the chief into a rhetorically burning pillory of public anger. That's his job. Bump firing complaint? Fuck me, fuck us all. Damn I wish I knew Latin. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:02:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Around here, most cops request over loudspeaker that you get out of the car, and go around That having been said, if they don't request this, and you decide to just pop out of the car while they're approaching the vehicle, you're likely to get drawn down on or tazed. Usually, if an officer does not ask, I do not tell them I have weapons. If they do ask, I politely reply that I do, and would they like me to step out of the car? If they say yes, then I do. This does not give them consent to a search. They still need to ask/have PC to do so. Merely saying that I do indeed have a gun is gonna be hard to pass off as PC without something else to go with it. ETA: My mistake. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:06:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Did you just slam me?  Sounds good Mike. Hopefully, I'll make the next 3 Gun. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:09:08 PM EDT
[#15]
I got news for you: you are a criminal, though you have done nothing wrong.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:11:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Way to go JBTs....
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:13:12 PM EDT
[#17]
the way I read the story, it was neither automatic or an " investigation". If the officer in question was investigating a firearms related complaint, why did he wait until the suspected offenders left and got up the road before initiating his investigation? was there a valid reason, pertinant to his "investigation" ,for damaging his property? the simplest and most likely explaination for this series of events is that the range owner ,a retired cop, had a hard on for these fellows , and decided to call one of his buddies to give them a hard time and let them know" their kind ain't welcome in these parts". or, I could be way off base. I would be interested to know if the alleged offenders had long hair or looked like college students("hippies"). |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:14:20 PM EDT
[#18]
I have heard some folks on here say that responding to the positive when such a question is asked can actually be construed as implied consent. Is that true? Also, if they start asking you, "What kind of weapons do you have?" what would you say? What about the all-too-common "Do you have permits for those weapons?" (when you have rifles, or a handgun and rifles) |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:17:39 PM EDT
[#19]
I'll avoid that dumbass range, thank's for the warning
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:21:35 PM EDT
[#20]
Call up all your buddies and have an assault rifle shoot one day. Go in and take the range over for OH SAY 6 or 7 hours. Be cool about it though.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:22:41 PM EDT
[#21]
tag
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:23:15 PM EDT
[#22]
Why dont you have an unofficial arfcom get together with a special "minute of hell" bumping session?
JBT's suck! |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:24:04 PM EDT
[#23]
The officer is automatically be tagged by the poster in the comment I replied to as being a JBT. How is what happened NOT an investigation?The officers received a complaint and they investigated. BTW, if you told an officer you were "bump firing", probably 99 %+ would have no idea what that is. Doesn't mean they are ignorant, but in all honesty, in years of cruising gun boards, this is about the only board I've ever been on that even talks about the practice. The "damage" to the weapon sounds unintentional and inadvertant, and certainly doesn't sound like any damage truly occured.Some of you make it sound like the damage was intentional.I certainly don't baby my rifles, and I am willing to bet that most of you have dinged up stuff worse than happened by the rifle simply sliding off the hood. Not being that officer, I can only guess that they waited til the thread starter was away from the range as a matter of public safety, minimize the possibility that they'd be dealing with a person with immediate and close access to a loaded weapon, in consideration for the other members of the public present at the range, etc. I think you are reading too much of a conspiracy theory into the whole thing.Someone thought that someone had an illegal FA and the matter was investigated.End of story. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:24:13 PM EDT
[#24]
=)
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:28:32 PM EDT
[#25]
"There are no illegal weapons in this vehicle." When they ask again, repeat the same answer. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:28:36 PM EDT
[#26]
."Someone thought that someone had an illegal FA and the matter was investigated.End of story."
Oh no! Someone possibly had a weapon they did not pay a $200 tax on, oh the humanity.... Calling all cars, calling all cars..... |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:36:29 PM EDT
[#27]
I've been asked about weapons a couple times and respond that "I don't have anything illegal" in the vehicle. Never had any problems - yet... 
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:37:57 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm glad someone said it. Saves me the time typing. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a big fan of bumpfiring and have less than little regard for asshole cops and range "masters". With that said, It sounds to me that the owner guy didn't know what "bumpfiring" was and called the cops when he thought someone was using illegal machine guns at his range. This is HIS business afterall. Is he stupid? Yes. Should you boycott his range? Absolutley! Did he do anything wrong? I don't see it. Texas has a STATE law against illegal machine guns. The cop in question was just ivestigating a possible crime. He didn't see what happened and only had the owners word for what did. Don't like it? Then change the law but don't bag on the cop. I am speaking from experience BTW. I have had my share of LE come snooping around during a shooting session. I usually end up teaching them how it's done. When it's all said and done, you are probably only guilty of being such a good "bumper" that the asshole range owner didn't believe you when you said you didn't have a MG. Good job! 
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:42:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Fuck them and fuck each and every one of these "OMG URE THE BAD PERSON" apologist fucksticks here.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:45:36 PM EDT
[#30]
I don't know what the 'legality' of this is. All I know is that no cop is searching my vehicle under any sort of 'implied consent' under these circumstances. This is exactly the reason that every time I have been asked to step out of the car, I roll the window up and lock the doors. And 'implied consent' or not, i'm betting a good attorney would eat their ass for lunch on something like this if you schose to push it. As to permits? No permits in the state of Florida. As to what types of weapons? Well, i've never had them ask that. But if they did, you can bet i'd reply, 'Am I under arrest? Do I need the presence of my attorney?' I'm sorry. What weapons I have in my vehicle is no one's business. I consider my vehicle an extension of my home. And i'll damned sure make them get a warrant to search it, too. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:48:35 PM EDT
[#31]
I am wondering why you think an officer "running" a person they are investigating constitutes grounds for a lawsuit. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:48:58 PM EDT
[#32]
First off - Thank you for your sacrifice. Second - Exactly how do I get to this range? I feel a real need to do some bump firing. 
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Posted: 10/3/2005 4:59:37 PM EDT
[#33]
I am sorry you had a problem. I know the owner and his family. The Dietz's are Germans and to them breaking the rule was the big deal. I also know the sheriff. He is a honest man. Just go see him and talk to him if you think you were wronged. He will listen to you if you treat him like a human being. As for the individual deputy, Comal County is growing so rapidly that they are hiring LEO left and right to keep up with the population. Most are great guys; however some are not the brightest crayon in the box!
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:01:29 PM EDT
[#34]
first off, I wasn't there. so I could indeed be way off base.
The story conveyed in the initial post said the policeman was at the range while the alleged offenders were at the range, and after the "bump firing " incident occurred. The story further conveyed that the range owner was talking to the policeman while walking the firing line. The content of their conversation was not given. Why did the officer wait until the alleged offenders( alleged federal felons) packed up their firearms, which they could easily and safely been separated from at the range (with backup from "two retired police officers"), and allow them to travel away from the range before initiating his investigation? I am not a policeman, so I don't really know if it is more tactically sound to pull over a vehicle with persons known to be armed without backup, unless it was known that the occupants of said vehicle were not a threat. I have spent a few years working at a rather large range in the Houston area. In the several times I have seen the police called out there for various reasons, each and every complaint or problem was investigated and dealt with on the spot. secondly, while "bump firing" may not be a common phenomena in some police communities, it was certainly known by the range owner, as was evident by the presence of a sign restricting the rate of fire to one round per second. How could someone restrict an activity they were not aware of ? As far as the damage to the rifle, the car video will tell all. The absence of the video will tell more. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:03:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Go to your county SO and then proceed to the records division.
Get a copy of the TRACIS (incident report). There probably won't be one  . In that case, ALSO, get a copy of the 911 call, this should be available by cassette tape, transcript, or both. It will have this ass-hat and his actual verbal complaint that led to your contact. (YES, you can get this too. Be prepared to pay $5-$10 for the tape cost.) IF YOUR ALLEGED ACCUSOR blatantly reported that you had a machine gun or made some other accusatory statement as a fact, you may have legal recourse against him. (Example: You can't see your boss minding his own business driving down the street and call 911 on your cell phone to report that he is driving drunk as if you know he is. ) |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:05:29 PM EDT
[#36]
You don't need to be "bump firing" to be pulling the trigger quicker than you should and perhaps endangering ( in the eyes of the range management) the rest of the shooters. The sign doesn't mean they know anything at all about "bump firing". |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:05:43 PM EDT
[#37]
This whole situation could have been avoided if you weren't trying to show off. Police officers HAVE to follow a legal criminal complaint and investigate it. The cops were just doing their jobs. The gun range owner/emploee/whatever is who I would have been pissed at, next time I saw them I would explain what I was doing and then showed them, so that they will know for future reference.
I have never seen bump firing in person until yesterday, two twenty something dumbasses were bump firing all kinds of weapons, and hitting another guys target and just spraying rounds and brass all over. SOme words exchanged and then they started acting with some sense. One had a AR pistol that he had put a forward grip on. I saw them firing and assumed they were class 3 weapons, except one was a preban DPMS AR upper with no flash hider, thought it was odd someone would put that upper on a 15 or so grand lower. I asked the guys on a cease fire if they were class 3 weapons and they asked me what that was. They said nah we're bump firing. I looked at the AR pistol the the added forward grip and just walked away, guy made an illegal AOE and didn't even know it. On bump firing and illegal full auto, I never heard of bump fire before here, and have shot with dozens of LEO and class 3 weapons and with qualified people, they never mentioned it. The range I go to had a guy BRING AN AK AND A FILE IN AND ASK HOW TO MAKE IT FULL AUTO! The employees were all like, not here bud, hit the road. Your average person here's full auto and assumes it's illegal, try to educate or do that bumping in secret. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:15:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Don't get me wrong. I believe the range owners right to enact and enforce any rules he sees fit are absolute. His house, his rules. I believe the definition of "bump firing" IS "to be pulling the trigger quicker than you should" It wasn't the word that got the range owner's attention, it was the activity. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:17:13 PM EDT
[#39]
Were you born this stupid or do you have to practice? I read the first bs story and if I could neither spell nor write as the idiot writer I'ld fucking shoot myself. Sounds like a freaking 10th grader that finally got a courtesy pass after failing 9th grade 3 times. You don't really think that was a valid post do you? Yesterday, October 2nd, 2005, a friend of mine purchased a Glock .45 that he was going to take to Iraq with him(he is in the 101st airborne and is deploying in a few days). He asked me to show him how to operated it. Operated it ? OPERATED IT? He's Airborne and he has to ask you how to operate it? Where's my BS meter? In the past when I called this range gave me smart remarks Well I'm glad you didn't pay for the. Did the range give you smart remarks or the person on the phone? I do want you to know I'm really impressed you can bump fire a 10/22 from the shoulder. The range owner (or employee, not too sure) came out side (outside, out of or out from?)the office and asked me if I had a full-auto. I told him No politely that I was just bump firing off the trigger. took And you got people to believe you on this letter? I sure hope you went to Public School because if you went to private school your folks got screwed. (taxpayers didn't get any good results either.) I was thinking all shit (so am I) |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:26:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Why'd you quote my post to bitch about that man's spelling and grammar? Some people take the internet way too seriously. That said, if I were you I'ld retract/revise my statements, Herr Grammarmeister. 
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:29:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Jesus F'ing christ, the spelling NAZI has struck.... Why is it jackasses do this? How does his typeing have any relavance to his experiance with the LEO? If I was as anal as the spelling NAZI id shoot myself too! |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:29:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Are you going to be ok? You should look into some anger management classes and some serious psychiatric help. You're about to go over the edge.  |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:32:19 PM EDT
[#43]
"There's nothing in the car that's of any interest to you, officer." |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:33:43 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:35:18 PM EDT
[#45]
What are you, some kind of lawyer type? 
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:40:41 PM EDT
[#46]
+1 |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:45:18 PM EDT
[#47]
I can understand the stop (sound like the rangemaster is the cockholster) but when you damage something you repair or replace it. If you have a POS and I damaged it, I would pay to return it to the condition it was in prior--because its not my decision whether its worth replacing or not. |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:55:21 PM EDT
[#48]
I can't wait to find out what cause of action your attorney files and how much you make. Keep us posted.
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:55:55 PM EDT
[#49]
If it would have happened in some of the other States you can bet there would have been a 'full body cavity search' done! They would probably win the probable cause argument because of the bump firing. BigDozer66 |
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Posted: 10/3/2005 5:56:44 PM EDT
[#50]
"The cop was just doing his job."
 "He was obligated to follow up on the complaint." "Officer not a JBT." Unless the RO told the officer that the poster (a) was shooting FA and (b) when asked said "I have no papers for the gun. I converted it myself after the manufacturing ban went into effect," there was no colorable complaint of criminal activity. "He has a machine gun" is no more a criminal complaint than is a report that a man has a revolver, a banana, or a silk handkerchief, unless the complaint is made someplace where FA's are per se illegal. If a fishing expedition following a report that someone has a machine gun is a legitimate criminal investigation, then a report of possession of any gun justifies a roust - the guy might be a convicted felon, or have a DV injunction against him; the gun might be stolen. No way to know unless the cop follows up, right? If this was a lawful stop, then a stop on a report that "I saw a 40 year old man get into a car with a 9 year-old girl and drive off" justifies a kidnaping and child molestation investigation. The stop was illegal, because there was no factually grounded suspicion of wrongdoing. The fact that there are cops who didn't recognize that fact is disappointing. |
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