What does this mean?  Who owns them now?

I'm certain Tromatic knows exactly who GL is. I believe that in a few days the official source and documentation will surface.  But, it's hard to deny that when whoever has control over the brass tells you you have to destroy it, they win.  


One thing that many may not know is that the whole surplus contract was re-bid last year and became effective Nov 1, 2008.

The new contract has the following highlights:

- GL now buys and owns the surplus before they sell it. They purchase it at 1% of original invoice.

- GL has turned almost all of their DRMO offices into shipping depots and are consolidating surplus into 3-4 main locations

- DLA is loosing a little more physical control over the inventory as a result and is putting more restrictions


Now, I am not sure of the exact wording in the current SV contract, but I was told yesterday by GL that they will not be handling fired brass and that SV has been in control of it for some time.

The fact that GL now OWNS the inventory and is consolidating it pisses me off to no end.  Because unless you are near one of these 3-4 locations, shipping and inspection have made buying all but impossible.

...especially when all the cypherin' to justify this was done before the economy tanked.

I have high hopes that this will be re-bid, due to "extenuating circumstances" or some such escape clause.

Bureaucatese!!, can you speak it mutha––––––....

Don't know if it's been posted yet, but a SilencerTalk member posted the following info:




FIREMISSION anyone?????

I came across this PDF, it seems directed at tactical vehicles.  What I find interesting is the "integrity code" reclassification.  Brass has always been DEMIL B, which doesn't require mutilation, but they must have changed it to DEMIL B - IC3, which requires worldwide mutilation.  This report was issued last month.



http://www.mvpa.org/memsec/downloads/DemilReport0209.pdf





INFORMATION PAPER

SUBJECT: Demilitarization of Demilitarization Code B and Code Q items.

Purpose: Provide information relevant to the events and resulting actions that could

impact the future sale of surplus Department of Defense (DOD) materiel.

INFORMATION:

• Spring/Summer 2008 a number of incidents occurred regarding the improper

transfer of sensitive military materiel. The main focus was materiel related to

the F-14 fighter aircraft.

• Late summer/early fall 2008 DOD suspended all transfer/donation/sales/

(TD&S) for Demilitarization (DEMIL) Code B and Code Q items. This broadbrush

approach included all tactical vehicles, powered and towed. DOD

materiel management commands were directed to review all assigned

materiel DEMIL codes and Integrity Codes (IC).

• DEMIL Code B Munitions List Items (MLI) Trade Security Controls (TSC)

required at disposition.

• DEMIL Code Q Strategic List Items (SLI) non-MLI items identified and

licensed by the Department of Commerce Control List (CCL). Trade Security

Controls required at disposition.

• In addition to the DEMIL code of B or Q all materiel has an assigned IC. The

IC determines the validity of the DEMIL code. IC 3 requires worldwide

mutilation of the materiel, IC 6 only requires mutilation when the materiel is

located overseas.

• Early November 2008 Office of the Deputy Under Secretary of Defense

issued an ACTION MEMO directing policy changes to tighten DEMIL control

procedures.

• Mid-November 2008 Office of the Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for

Logistics and Materiel Readiness directs the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA)

to implement a number of process and procedure changes to mitigate future

security risk.

• Late December 2008 DLA issues specific implementation directions to all

Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service (DRMS) activities regarding the

processing of DEMIL B and Q items. Excerpt, sales are not authorized for

DEMIL Code B property. Serviceable DEMIL Code Q property with any IC

code other than IC6 is not authorized for sale except for those DEMIL Q items

specifically exempted.

• Early February 2009 DLA implements a detailed Concept of Operations plan

to deal with DEMIL B and Q items. Excerpt, certain categories of DEMIL Q

items are considered to pose no risk to national security and are excluded

from this process. They will continue to be disposed of under existing disposal

procedures. Specified rolling stock after removal or demilitarization of any

DEMIL required item, part component, accessory and attachments, armed,

armored vehicles and tracked combat vehicles are excluded from this

exception.

• Example: Truck, cargo, 2½-ton, W/W, WO/W, NSN 2320-00-0771-616,

DEMIL Code Q Integrity Code 3. The majority of tactical vehicles powered

and towed are DEMIL Code Q with IC of 3.

CONCLUSION:

Provided the existing policy exceptions remain in place, the sale of most tactical

vehicles powered and towed through Government Liquidators will continue.

And here's directions on how to challenge it...



http://www.acq.osd.mil/log/sci/MD/F-14_Parts.pdf

Good to hear some positive news.  Thanks for taking the time to call the NRA-ILA and posting the details.  All the naysayers who ask "why should I bother joining the NRA" should take note.



I am still going to fax my congressmen and express my concerns.   Luckily they are pro gun/pro 2nd.



 

When writing the critters please remeber to remind them of what happened after the AWB in '94.  The air is ripe for another sweeping change if the republicans can stick this to the democrats as a back door gun ban.  The only way it can't be percieved as this is is if the Democrats come out swinging and make the DOD reverse policy ASAP!  

While the ruling party may agree or disagree self preservation is a great motivator.  They know what would happen if the stigma got nailed to them, and it could happen.  This story is in its infancy and not too much is going to happen over the weekend, but we shall see.

Just remeber pound pound pound!  Do not let up with letters and calls to your critters!  Blow their phones off the hook, make their computers crash with emails, shut down their fax machines, and fill their mail boxes until they can't get any more!

I'm offereing to pay for any of my friends and families postage if they will take the time to write a letter!

I just finished emailing my Congressman and both of my U.S. Senators........for the second time......regarding this subject. My first email to each, was a brief one. The second email to each was the following text. I used some of a letter created by another poster on page 6 of this thread and then added a bit of my own jabs.

I plan to be on the phone to them first thing Monday morning and also I will put in a call to the NRA-Institute for legislative action, to see if they have learned anything new about this crap!

Let's really raise HELL about this all next week, guys! I think if we cause enough trouble.....we can get this reversed!


Representative or Senator,

I am very, very concerned about the idiotic policy change by the DOD that I am about to relate to you. This policy MUST BE REVERSED....ASAP!  

Millions of law abiding gun owners have recently learned that the Defense Logistics Agency has determined that all fired brass casings from ammunition used at military firing ranges must be mutilated before they can be sold as surplus. This means that it can no longer be used by law abiding gun owners who wish to reload the spent brass casings and use them again. When contacted regarding this matter, the DLA could not provide a source or reason for this change in policy.

This new policy not only negatively affects the millions of reloaders in this country, but it will also negatively affect the profits of corporations such as Georgia Arms and Black Hills Ammunition. These companies purchase large quantities of surplus brass casings and sell it as reloaded ammunition. This move by the DLA to mutilate the brass casings before it can be sold will not only drive the cost of reloads up for gun owners and the corporations that purchase the surplus for resale, but it will also substantially increase the cost to the government due to the added step of having to mutilate the casings before the DLA can sell it. The mutilation process is not only a time consuming effort and an unnecessary additional expense to the government, but it will also reduce the value of the brass by 80%, which further decreases the government's profit margin. All this waste in a period of critical economic times for both citizens and the Federal Government.

I have recently contacted the NRA - ILA and asked them to look into the matter, and as one of your constituents, I respectfully ask that you look into the matter as well. Thank you for taking the time to consider my request and I look forward to your reply.

I am a native Oregonian and I am absolutely livid about this waste of U.S. Government material and the infringement on citizens rights as well as the negative effect on small businesses in this country that resell this cartridge brass!

I will definitely be back in contact to you, regularly, regarding this situation.


Sincerely,

(Your Name)

It would seem that this is the way to go. I think the spent casings got dragged into a new code category un-noticed and are subsequently treated the same way as a sensitive F-14 part is.  I am going this route as well as contacting the critters, The .mil/.gov have to respond to a properly entered challenge form.

Tagged & Bumped.

OST

Not to mention and, most importantly a waste of tax payers money!

Writing draft for congress critter , thanks for notes.

tag

Sent off a letter to my rep.

I just sent a note to DRUDGE and a few other news outlets.


If nobody knows about this legislators will have little motivation.


I suggest all of us pick a favorite news organization and fire away.

No, I'm not.  There has been NOT ONE SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that this has come from Obama.  Not one.  You want to pin this on Obama with something other than wild speculation–– PROVE IT.  This stinks like an internal policy change by a pencildick bureaucrat intent on getting promoted and making a name for himself.

Probably is true, seems like DLA was trying to keep this on the down low by only sending the obligatory letters to the big companies that purchase their brass for resale.

We need to make everyone who is pro 2nd amendment hear about this.

Well, more and more of the lots are being taken down...

Hopefully that just means govliq is holding them in the hope that the policy will get reversed and they can sell them unmutilated.

bump... this needs far more attention...this is a great way for the Obama crew to dry up ammo...can't take the guns, then they'll make the ammo so expensive it'll take care of the guns for them...

I wonder... could a cast cartridge work?  Can brass be heat treated?

I know some aluminum alloys can be heat treated to bring the copper out of solution evenly for greater strength... is there a simliar process for brass?

I;m betting that if it were doable, someone would have done it already, but it doesn't hurt to ask, right?

Have not seen that yet. Also the ones still up say no mutilation required. It seems that if this were actually the case. They could change the listings and remove them withing a couple of hours. Which they have not.

I also wonder why I have not gotten the email from them. I am a registered member. of the Gov Liq site.

I am in the middle biding my time to see what happens. I just don't know either way.

Most if not all  military ammo is heat treated at the shoulder, neck,  and mouth. It's annealed.

Same.  But there were two lots in San Antonio that were coming up in a few weeks that got delisted the same day this email came out.

Now, I haven't gotten the email either, but then again I'm not a big reloading company... so who knows?  But there's fewer brass cartridge lots up than there were yesterday.

it's also the weekend.  Allow a few business days to pass before it all shakes out.

Well, as it turns out, Obama realized that crimped in primers weren't enough to discourage reloaders, so he came up with this. I heard he also signed an executive order requiring gun owners to act like a bunch of marks.

those lots were posted AFTER this email was sent - also 2 lots in Yuma

New lots posted after the email

2 lots in Texas and 1 in Florida were pulled that I see

but 3 new lots and other existing ones still don't claim to need mutilation

No they weren't.  They were up for about a week before this email was sent.  Two 1860 pound lots out of San Antonio (Lackland, I believe)

eta: Of course, I'm just going by memory.  It deleted them out of my watchlist, so I won't swear to that "week" figure, but I'm positive they were up for quite awhile before this email came out.

eta: I saw the yuma ones today.  I can't remember if they were there yesterday or not.

I know it's the weekend and all, but changes can be made on a weekend.

I have put a sales hold on all my 223, 308 and 50BMG. I have a customer poised to buy 100K in ammo. For me this is a nice order.

I heard they wer e gonna start doing this back in 2005.....I dont think Obama was even on the radar scopes then....

This is very typical of GL.  I cannot tell you the number of times lots just disappear, at any point prior to closing time.

I asked very specifically about the current auctions and got the reply you see in the OP.

For those of you who have done govliq deals before... what do I do if I cannot get ahold of a specific site manager to schedule a pickup appointment?

I won a bid last week on a lathe over at Eglin in Florida, but I cannot get ahold of the manager to make an appointment.  I called and left a message the first day and I've called every day since with no reply.  Its a long-ass drive so I REALLY need to talk to him before my time limit is up... what do I do?

IM is ok.

Thread hijack over.

Tag

tag..

Tag

I am not criticizing the OP in any way, but I think this is all hersay.  I think this is a tactic to charge an extreme amount of money for something in order to make a HUGE profit.  I am going to wait a month or two to see where this is.  Until than, I don't believe it.

I just got this in an email:

 

I would never buy ammo from anyone else if he canceled the LEO orders to fill "civilian" orders.





 

He has a lot of contracts for LE agencies for practice ammo.

GR

listening to this right now

right click on the link and download

I am sure they are very large LEO orders and at this point he is unsure that he can fill anyone orders.

There was an auction lot coming up in Michigan for OFB that has mysteriously disappeared

Is this like the reverse of Hornady's practice of selling 5.56 TAP only to LEO? If so, good on 'em!

If only I owned a minigun and remanufactering loading equipment where you could reload 10000rds/hr I could buy it load and fire it then scrap it who the hell would know you got your jollies off by shooting it!

Here's the letter I sent to my representatives:

Dear Senator __________,

I am very concerned that the Department of Defense has just implemented a policy that will greatly increase the price of ammunition used by police agencies and citizens and ultimately the military themselves. With record high ammunition prices and ammunition factories working at 100% capacity, the last thing that the federal government should be doing is to further decrease the supply of ammunition components. Yet that is exactly what this new policy does – it prevents expended military ammunition cases from being used to manufacture reloaded ammunition.

Here are some of the specifics:
“... important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately.”

To top it all off, the money the government receives from these high quality once-fired brass cases will be greatly reduced because of the expense of shredding the cases.

Less supply of ammunition components equals higher ammunition prices for all calibers. De-milling expended military brass is a bone-headed, illogical policy that needs to be strongly opposed. This is the first major move by the new administration towards stealth gun control. If you agree, I trust you will be in contact with the appropriate bureaucrats and demand that this policy be reversed.  I will be watching closely in hopes of public statements and other visible actions by you.

We count on you to work in the best interests of this nation and greatly appreciate all you do.

Still appears to be unintended consequences.  What will be bad is if this clown in AZ has his shredder running 24/7.

I still want to know how they can get away with telling people sitting on a stock of brass for re-sale to destroy it.

Sounds like an easy fix, but I doubt it will be changed any time soon.

Listing to Toms show right now about this issue.