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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:34:34 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm the audio tech at our church. The sound booth is elevated so its like a turret. My G21SF is in there with me every Sunday. I should bring an AR Pistol inside a ukelele case. A Glock for the Flock... I had a pastor recently ask if I would bring an ar in a pelican case LOL |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:34:55 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas? That said, there are gray areas (where Concealed means concealed). Take a Church I sometimes attend. They have a school - school carry IS illegal. What happens when I go to a Church function that happens to be happening in a school building one week? What happens if it is not a school building, but sometimes used by the school - just not right now. In my issue my group meets 6am to 7:30, but a room in the same building is used for daycare at 8am - and the room I use is probably used as needed by every church group - including the school. There have been times, however, due to school use of the community center - that we have met in the school cafeteria (again hours before it is used as the school cafeteria). I am no lawyer - but without looking at the deed, I am hoping the community center is owned by the Church and not by the School - and my ccw stays in my car if we walk to the cafeteria (which is almost certainly owned by the school). Techically if the building is hosting a school event (in this case a school church service - then the carry in the Church is off limits as well). I don't go to their school church services. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:35:38 AM EDT
[#3]
When I look across the aisles and see so many older Americans and families with kids and know I have been disarmed by the state as I sit there, I just pray something won't happen. You have a perfect soft target.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:37:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you seriously asking this question? Jesus told us He is THE way. Not A way. Islam is not what He was speaking about. Can you say, "Blasphemy"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Isn't it usually someone from within the congregation that loses it? at one church we had a young muslim man come in and set his prayer rug down in the aisle and started praying. he found out that the church had several LEOs in attendance You had LEOs make him leave for praying? In a church? Are you seriously asking this question? Jesus told us He is THE way. Not A way. Islam is not what He was speaking about. Can you say, "Blasphemy"? Sounds to me like God put someone in your midst who had been lead astray, and instead of living in His image you called Caesar's guards. I wasn't there though, so maybe it was warranted. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:38:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of the very best preachers I know do likewise.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I carry while I preach! Some of the very best preachers I know do likewise. I hate that I have to but have learned that it is what is expected out of an inner-city pastor. I now have a few church members that carry in services. They understand that I will try to defuse the situation and they are to have my back. I have never pulled my pistol (in church) in the 14 years of pastoring in this ministry, but my church members/leaders (youth pastor) have a few times. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:38:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On it's face it looks like that, but fine print says that it must be legally posted. The law allows Churches restrict CCW, but the default is unrestricted. I have never seen a Church posted. That said, there are gray areas (where Concealed means concealed). Take a Church I sometimes attend. They have a school - school carry IS illegal. What happens when I go to a Church function that happens to be happening in a school building one week? What happens if it is not a school building, but sometimes used by the school - just not right now. In my issue my group meets 6am to 7:30, but a room in the same building is used for daycare at 8am - and the room I use is probably used as needed by every church group - including the school. There have been times, however, due to school use of the community center - that we have met in the school cafeteria (again hours before it is used as the school cafeteria). I am no lawyer - but without looking at the deed, I am hoping the community center is owned by the Church and not by the School - and my ccw stays in my car if we walk to the cafeteria (which is almost certainly owned by the school). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas? That said, there are gray areas (where Concealed means concealed). Take a Church I sometimes attend. They have a school - school carry IS illegal. What happens when I go to a Church function that happens to be happening in a school building one week? What happens if it is not a school building, but sometimes used by the school - just not right now. In my issue my group meets 6am to 7:30, but a room in the same building is used for daycare at 8am - and the room I use is probably used as needed by every church group - including the school. There have been times, however, due to school use of the community center - that we have met in the school cafeteria (again hours before it is used as the school cafeteria). I am no lawyer - but without looking at the deed, I am hoping the community center is owned by the Church and not by the School - and my ccw stays in my car if we walk to the cafeteria (which is almost certainly owned by the school). I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw.. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:38:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am hoping to get some feed back on plans and emergency medical plans too. Have you though about giving everyone in your congregation a CAT(Combat Application Tourniquet) to carry in their pocket while at church? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:40:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
one local church even has a swat team That is one of the most retarded things I've ever heard. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:40:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Swat team? Snipers? If I thought a church needed that I would not expose my family to that environment. Jesus isn't going to save you from a gunman intent on killing you. Only John Moses Browning is. Obviously your church has come to that conclusion. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:41:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas? That said, there are gray areas (where Concealed means concealed). Take a Church I sometimes attend. They have a school - school carry IS illegal. What happens when I go to a Church function that happens to be happening in a school building one week? What happens if it is not a school building, but sometimes used by the school - just not right now. In my issue my group meets 6am to 7:30, but a room in the same building is used for daycare at 8am - and the room I use is probably used as needed by every church group - including the school. There have been times, however, due to school use of the community center - that we have met in the school cafeteria (again hours before it is used as the school cafeteria). I am no lawyer - but without looking at the deed, I am hoping the community center is owned by the Church and not by the School - and my ccw stays in my car if we walk to the cafeteria (which is almost certainly owned by the school). I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw.. Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person: (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship. ... (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:42:10 AM EDT
[#11]
I asked the elders where I worship if I can carry. They said, "We wish you would."
There are several armed and very well-trained guys in our congregation. Then there's me. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:42:16 AM EDT
[#12]
I always carry at Church.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:43:25 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas? NO. This was removed several years ago. It was never prohibited if the CHL had permission... |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:44:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
God tells me to serve the church and since I know a majority of folks are completely unaware or too disengaged to care so I look at it as a way for me to contribute by carrying a 9mm and spare mags, sitting towards the entry doors and keeping my eyes open. Others may see it differently. But that's the way I see it. I'm not sporting a badge or advertising or "tending the flock" I'm just aware it's a possibility and react accordingly. I know of at least two others that do the same. Plus my wife and two small children are there, so ya know there's that. I agree that this is the right way to do it. I struggle sometimes with my mindset and Christianity. On one hand, we are called as Christians to be tolerant, loving and kind. We are also called to care for the needy and defend the defenseless. I've got more to say on that subject, but I think I'll save it for a thread in the religion forum later. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:44:23 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw.. PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder’s person: (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was notreligious worship. given effective notice under Section 30.06 |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:45:12 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas? That said, there are gray areas (where Concealed means concealed). Take a Church I sometimes attend. They have a school - school carry IS illegal. What happens when I go to a Church function that happens to be happening in a school building one week? What happens if it is not a school building, but sometimes used by the school - just not right now. In my issue my group meets 6am to 7:30, but a room in the same building is used for daycare at 8am - and the room I use is probably used as needed by every church group - including the school. There have been times, however, due to school use of the community center - that we have met in the school cafeteria (again hours before it is used as the school cafeteria). I am no lawyer - but without looking at the deed, I am hoping the community center is owned by the Church and not by the School - and my ccw stays in my car if we walk to the cafeteria (which is almost certainly owned by the school). I use to live in texas, you are dead wrong. It is one of the places specifically forbidden to ccw. There is no fine print. You are taking a major chance of losing your ccw.. Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person: (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship. ... (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06. I'm not in Texas, but thank you for posting a citation. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:45:21 AM EDT
[#17]
The problem for lack of a better word is the nature of churches. The promise of peace there, the duty to God, the sanctity of a church, the demographics of the worshippers, the layout and openness of a church as well as the sheeple mentality all conspire against security. When you boil it down, it's just a room full of people like any other room and is just as vulnerable to attack as any other large gathering of people.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:45:31 AM EDT
[#18]
My church might be different than your church though.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:45:39 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You had LEOs make him leave for praying? In a church? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Isn't it usually someone from within the congregation that loses it? at one church we had a young muslim man come in and set his prayer rug down in the aisle and started praying. he found out that the church had several LEOs in attendance You had LEOs make him leave for praying? In a church? A muslim is making a statement by walking into a Christian church that very obviously conflicts with his beliefs and praying to Allah during the service. If you don't see the very real issue with that you're being purposefully obtuse. It's all sensitivity until the guy decides to martyr himself. Imagine the outrage of a Christian going to a mosque and praying to the Christian God during a service in an effort to distupt. We had something similar happen when I was in junior high. 2 jehovah's witnesses came from the church next door came in and started loudly mocking and ridiculing and being loud and disrespectful during the preaching. Security escorted them out. The next day our pastor wrote a letter to theirs explaining the situation and that while we are happy to open our doors to them the manner was obviously not respectful. Their pastor apologized and I believe the individuals were disciplined by the church. As for this absolutely the biggest problem. It's not "anti-christian violence" at large that's an issue. It's people that are angry at the staff/congregation for perceived (or legitimate) wrongs, anger at a former/current partner becoming a Christian or attending church, or someone who would use the generally open atmosphere of a church the same as a school shooter would. Unfortunately my church has dealt with it's fair share of bad publicity due to a highly publicized event almost 20 years ago that was handled very poorly by former pastoral staff. We monitor for threats and work with the local PD. I've spent nights highly armed overnight before major events because of publically voiced retribution plans directed at our church. We've also changed policies of security, church discipline, and handling of certain offenders extensively because we realized the issues at hand and our responsibility to the safety of our school chilldren, members, and ministry attendees and visitors. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:47:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree that this is the right way to do it. I struggle sometimes with my mindset and Christianity. On one hand, we are called as Christians to be tolerant, loving and kind. We are also called to care for the needy and defend the defenseless. I've got more to say on that subject, but I think I'll save it for a thread in the religion forum later. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
God tells me to serve the church and since I know a majority of folks are completely unaware or too disengaged to care so I look at it as a way for me to contribute by carrying a 9mm and spare mags, sitting towards the entry doors and keeping my eyes open. Others may see it differently. But that's the way I see it. I'm not sporting a badge or advertising or "tending the flock" I'm just aware it's a possibility and react accordingly. I know of at least two others that do the same. Plus my wife and two small children are there, so ya know there's that. I agree that this is the right way to do it. I struggle sometimes with my mindset and Christianity. On one hand, we are called as Christians to be tolerant, loving and kind. We are also called to care for the needy and defend the defenseless. I've got more to say on that subject, but I think I'll save it for a thread in the religion forum later. There's a distinction and one of the most often misunderstood quotes from the Bible is that we are to turn the other cheek. I tend to agree with Mr. Lewis. "Does anyone suppose that Our Lord's hearers understood to mean that if a homicidal maniac, attempting to murder a third party, tried to knock me out of the way, I must stand aside and let him get his victim? I at any rate think it impossible they could have so understood Him. I think it equally impossible that they supposed Him to mean that the best way of bringing up a child was to let it hit its parents whenever it was in a temper, or, when it had grabbed at the jam, to give it the honey also. I think the meaning of the words was perfectly clear -- 'Insofar as you are simply an angry man who has been hurt, mortify your anger and do not hit back.'" --C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory "Why I Am Not a Pacifist" |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:49:43 AM EDT
[#21]
Small church. Got a few guys that would make decent speed bumps. I sit where I can see the door, or its reflection.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:51:11 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A muslim is making a statement by walking into a Christian church that very obviously conflicts with his beliefs and praying to Allah during the service. If you don't see the very real issue with that you're being purposefully obtuse. It's all sensitivity until the guy decides to martyr himself. Imagine the outrage of a Christian going to a mosque and praying to the Christian God during a service in an effort to distupt. We had something similar happen when I was in junior high. 2 jehovah's witnesses came from the church next door came in and started loudly mocking and ridiculing and being loud and disrespectful during the preaching. Security escorted them out. The next day our pastor wrote a letter to theirs explaining the situation and that while we are happy to open our doors to them the manner was obviously not respectful. Their pastor apologized and I believe the individuals were disciplined by the church. As for this absolutely the biggest problem. It's not "anti-christian violence" at large that's an issue. It's people that are angry at the staff/congregation for perceived (or legitimate) wrongs, anger at a former/current partner becoming a Christian or attending church, or someone who would use the generally open atmosphere of a church the same as a school shooter would. Unfortunately my church has dealt with it's fair share of bad publicity due to a highly publicized event almost 20 years ago that was handled very poorly by former pastoral staff. We monitor for threats and work with the local PD. I've spent nights highly armed overnight before major events because of publically voiced retribution plans directed at our church. We've also changed policies of security, church discipline, and handling of certain offenders extensively because we realized the issues at hand and our responsibility to the safety of our school chilldren, members, and ministry attendees and visitors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Isn't it usually someone from within the congregation that loses it? at one church we had a young muslim man come in and set his prayer rug down in the aisle and started praying. he found out that the church had several LEOs in attendance You had LEOs make him leave for praying? In a church? A muslim is making a statement by walking into a Christian church that very obviously conflicts with his beliefs and praying to Allah during the service. If you don't see the very real issue with that you're being purposefully obtuse. It's all sensitivity until the guy decides to martyr himself. Imagine the outrage of a Christian going to a mosque and praying to the Christian God during a service in an effort to distupt. We had something similar happen when I was in junior high. 2 jehovah's witnesses came from the church next door came in and started loudly mocking and ridiculing and being loud and disrespectful during the preaching. Security escorted them out. The next day our pastor wrote a letter to theirs explaining the situation and that while we are happy to open our doors to them the manner was obviously not respectful. Their pastor apologized and I believe the individuals were disciplined by the church. As for this absolutely the biggest problem. It's not "anti-christian violence" at large that's an issue. It's people that are angry at the staff/congregation for perceived (or legitimate) wrongs, anger at a former/current partner becoming a Christian or attending church, or someone who would use the generally open atmosphere of a church the same as a school shooter would. Unfortunately my church has dealt with it's fair share of bad publicity due to a highly publicized event almost 20 years ago that was handled very poorly by former pastoral staff. We monitor for threats and work with the local PD. I've spent nights highly armed overnight before major events because of publically voiced retribution plans directed at our church. We've also changed policies of security, church discipline, and handling of certain offenders extensively because we realized the issues at hand and our responsibility to the safety of our school chilldren, members, and ministry attendees and visitors. Yeah, loudly praying to Allah in the middle of a Christian service is obviously intended first and foremost to be disruptive and hostile. On the other hand, if he did the same in a quiet corner or outside of service... I don't think I'd have a real problem with it. I'd probably go over when he was done, welcome him to the church and make sure he knew he always had a safe and welcoming place to come. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:51:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Straight from the txdps ccw website
34. I am a Texas Concealed Handgun License (CHL) holder. Are there any places where I cannot carry my concealed handgun? Yes. §46.035, Texas Penal Code prohibits carrying of handguns and other weapons in certain places. These include but are not limited to: On the premises of a business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption On the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting or interscholastic event is taking place On the premises of a correctional facility On the premises of a hospital or nursing home (unless licensee has written authorization) In an amusement park On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other place of worship At any meeting of a governmental entity |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:52:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Swat team? Snipers? If I thought a church needed that I would not expose my family to that environment. Jesus isn't going to save you from a gunman intent on killing you. Only John Moses Browning is. Obviously your church has come to that conclusion. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:53:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't church CCW still against the law in Texas? No |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:54:46 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, loudly praying to Allah in the middle of a Christian service is obviously intended first and foremost to be disruptive and hostile. On the other hand, if he did the same in a quiet corner or outside of service... I don't think I'd have a real problem with it. I'd probably go over when he was done, welcome him to the church and make sure he knew he always had a safe and welcoming place to come. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Isn't it usually someone from within the congregation that loses it? at one church we had a young muslim man come in and set his prayer rug down in the aisle and started praying. he found out that the church had several LEOs in attendance You had LEOs make him leave for praying? In a church? A muslim is making a statement by walking into a Christian church that very obviously conflicts with his beliefs and praying to Allah during the service. If you don't see the very real issue with that you're being purposefully obtuse. It's all sensitivity until the guy decides to martyr himself. Imagine the outrage of a Christian going to a mosque and praying to the Christian God during a service in an effort to distupt. We had something similar happen when I was in junior high. 2 jehovah's witnesses came from the church next door came in and started loudly mocking and ridiculing and being loud and disrespectful during the preaching. Security escorted them out. The next day our pastor wrote a letter to theirs explaining the situation and that while we are happy to open our doors to them the manner was obviously not respectful. Their pastor apologized and I believe the individuals were disciplined by the church. As for this absolutely the biggest problem. It's not "anti-christian violence" at large that's an issue. It's people that are angry at the staff/congregation for perceived (or legitimate) wrongs, anger at a former/current partner becoming a Christian or attending church, or someone who would use the generally open atmosphere of a church the same as a school shooter would. Unfortunately my church has dealt with it's fair share of bad publicity due to a highly publicized event almost 20 years ago that was handled very poorly by former pastoral staff. We monitor for threats and work with the local PD. I've spent nights highly armed overnight before major events because of publically voiced retribution plans directed at our church. We've also changed policies of security, church discipline, and handling of certain offenders extensively because we realized the issues at hand and our responsibility to the safety of our school chilldren, members, and ministry attendees and visitors. Yeah, loudly praying to Allah in the middle of a Christian service is obviously intended first and foremost to be disruptive and hostile. On the other hand, if he did the same in a quiet corner or outside of service... I don't think I'd have a real problem with it. I'd probably go over when he was done, welcome him to the church and make sure he knew he always had a safe and welcoming place to come. Go troll a mosque and see what happens... |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:56:50 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's a distinction and one of the most often misunderstood quotes from the Bible is that we are to turn the other cheek. I tend to agree with Mr. Lewis. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I agree that this is the right way to do it. I struggle sometimes with my mindset and Christianity. On one hand, we are called as Christians to be tolerant, loving and kind. We are also called to care for the needy and defend the defenseless. I've got more to say on that subject, but I think I'll save it for a thread in the religion forum later. There's a distinction and one of the most often misunderstood quotes from the Bible is that we are to turn the other cheek. I tend to agree with Mr. Lewis. "Does anyone suppose that Our Lord's hearers understood to mean that if a homicidal maniac, attempting to murder a third party, tried to knock me out of the way, I must stand aside and let him get his victim? I at any rate think it impossible they could have so understood Him. I think it equally impossible that they supposed Him to mean that the best way of bringing up a child was to let it hit its parents whenever it was in a temper, or, when it had grabbed at the jam, to give it the honey also. I think the meaning of the words was perfectly clear -- 'Insofar as you are simply an angry man who has been hurt, mortify your anger and do not hit back.'" --C.S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory "Why I Am Not a Pacifist" I completely agree - my struggle isn't with an apparent conflict in Scripture, but to know where those lines are. In practice, I find that I know what I'm supposed to do in many situations not because I've reasoned it out from Scripture, but because I'm open to receiving the guidance of the Holy Spirit. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:56:59 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"upswing in violence against Christians"??? Did ISIS make it to America? Not yet. Not YET! |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:57:02 AM EDT
[#29]
This thread needs more Crusaders and Templar Knights
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:58:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shepherds come and all forms, and they carry staffs to protect the flocks. reality is you are no longer safe any where, so why increase the risks by not being prepared Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Swat team? Snipers? If I thought a church needed that I would not expose my family to that environment. Jesus isn't going to save you from a gunman intent on killing you. Only John Moses Browning is. Obviously your church has come to that conclusion. No one has ever been "safe" - safety is an illusion. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:59:24 AM EDT
[#31]
I said I never saw a church posted in Texas - that is partially untrue. I have attended 1 church that had many "NO FIREARMS" signs in their parking lot. They were accross the street from the National Shooting Complex in San Antionio. Too many cars had been broken into - so they posted the signs to try to curb the break-ins. That said - the sign did not constitute notice under 30.06.
fwiw - Criminals would tag the cars in the Shooting Complex - then break into them latter (at hotels, churches, etc...) |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 6:59:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go troll a mosque and see what happens... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, loudly praying to Allah in the middle of a Christian service is obviously intended first and foremost to be disruptive and hostile. On the other hand, if he did the same in a quiet corner or outside of service... I don't think I'd have a real problem with it. I'd probably go over when he was done, welcome him to the church and make sure he knew he always had a safe and welcoming place to come. Go troll a mosque and see what happens... I wouldn't do that, because that's not the kind of person I am. If I had need to enter a mosque, I'd be as respectful as possible and expect those who worship there to treat me with respect as well. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:00:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Sunday at church might as well be a gun range day with all the CCWs and LE.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:01:35 AM EDT
[#34]
There has already been a church shooting in my town, so it is definitely something I've thought about. My church has a security plan in place, with some plain-clothes security personnel in strategic locations. I also won't step foot into a church that I can't CCW in.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:03:22 AM EDT
[#35]
Maybe it's been asked by now but what "upswing in violence against Christians in America"?
There've been a few church shootings over the years but those weren't because they were Christian. Is there some religious suppression death squad I need to know about? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:04:07 AM EDT
[#36]
We've got active duty military due to the military base nearby and local LEOs a-plenty. Plus I imagine at least 5% probably have concealed handguns.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:16:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We've got active duty military due to the military base nearby and local LEOs a-plenty. Plus I imagine at least 5% probably have concealed handguns. No disrespect to the active duty military you mention but they are probably not armed so if it becomes a swat team needed situation as the op suggests how much good are they going to be beside maybe one of the cooler heads in the crowd getting the hell shot out of them like everyone else. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:18:04 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:20:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryI've used an "edited" version of that one here many times over the years. One of my favorites.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:27:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Straight from the txdps ccw website 34. I am a Texas Concealed Handgun License (CHL) holder. Are there any places where I cannot carry my concealed handgun? Yes. §46.035, Texas Penal Code prohibits carrying of handguns and other weapons in certain places. These include but are not limited to: On the premises of a business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption On the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting or interscholastic event is taking place On the premises of a correctional facility On the premises of a hospital or nursing home (unless licensee has written authorization) In an amusement park On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other place of worship At any meeting of a governmental entity You copied that off supportmytheoryregardlessofevidencetothecontrary.com didn't you.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:28:09 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shepherds come and all forms, and they carry staffs to protect the flocks. reality is you are no longer safe any where, so why increase the risks by not being prepared Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Swat team? Snipers? If I thought a church needed that I would not expose my family to that environment. Jesus isn't going to save you from a gunman intent on killing you. Only John Moses Browning is. Obviously your church has come to that conclusion. Trust me I understand personal security. I carry EVERY day. What I struggle with is putting my family in an environment that feels like it needs its own specific swat team. That's a serious escalation in security. Why not just uniformed armed guards at the entrance / exit points? Are the swat guys geared up for services, hiding in the back, ready to fo? If not and hostages are taken, what good are they over a local pd swat them? And if they are for active shooters wouldn't you be better off to just have members of the congregation armed along with some uniformed security? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:28:40 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
don't go to church? Problem solved +1 |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:31:17 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
don't go to church? Problem solved |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:31:44 AM EDT
[#44]
What upswing in violence against Christians are you talking about?
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:32:45 AM EDT
[#45]
Lol
The only purpose of security at my previous church was to watch for car break ins during services. SWAT teams? Really? Where? Sounds like either BS or total overreaction. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:35:13 AM EDT
[#46]
This just proves to me that a shit load of you guys actively Fantasize about some Red Dawn/zombie/end times deathfest where the fatties with hobby grade AR's save the world. Yes the evil mooslim hoarded are going to attack your megachurch
yoooooool JOE!
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:35:55 AM EDT
[#47]
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No, not sure if you are serious. they dress in plain clothes for close protection with armor and SBRs under their jackets and just like a police swat team for the others and they are linked into the local PD. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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plans? do you have a plan? I know some larger churches have full time organized security, one local church even has a swat team that cross trains with the local PD, but what are your plans? Do they duct tape plates to their chest? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:36:31 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What upswing in violence against Christians are you talking about? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:38:48 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:39:53 AM EDT
[#50]
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Are you seriously asking this question? Jesus told us He is THE way. Not A way. Islam is not what He was speaking about. Can you say, "Blasphemy"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Isn't it usually someone from within the congregation that loses it? at one church we had a young muslim man come in and set his prayer rug down in the aisle and started praying. he found out that the church had several LEOs in attendance You had LEOs make him leave for praying? In a church? Are you seriously asking this question? Jesus told us He is THE way. Not A way. Islam is not what He was speaking about. Can you say, "Blasphemy"? And they ruined he chance he might find Christ there. |
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