User Panel
This is the kind of crazy third world crap that happens under dictators like Mugabe in Zimbabwe. Not here in America under a Republican president.
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Two questions: - Are the owners of the guns that didn't belong to CavArms (the employees and consigners) able to get involved with the civil asset forfeiture hearing? - Will the ATF have to open the sealed affidavit at the civil asset forfeiture hearing to show the judge why the firearms were seized? |
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As I have discovered and mentioned on this site: There is a "system"... You are either part of the "system" or you are not... If you are part of the "system" and are not a congressman, you will at sometime not be part of the "system"... The "system" is setup to help those in the "system"... If you are not part of the "system" and any person in the "system" has a problem with you, you will find yourself in a uncomfortable situation... |
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There is no prosecution yet, and the Sixth Amendment does not limit the length of an investigation before charges are formally filed. If you're going to cite the constitution you would do well to actually know what you're talking about. BTW, even if the sixth did apply here, which it does not, the speedy trial limitation is a hell of a lot longer than 50 days. |
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Do you honestly expect a presidential candidate to try to influence or interfere with an ongoing federal investigation? Come on. ETA: I'm pretty sure those emails come from an unmonitored email address. |
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Shameful. Simply shameful. The ATF better have a stellar reason to do this, but really, will it matter if they don't? I doubt they'll see much trouble from the feds over it. |
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Looking into something is NOT interfering with an investigation. Unless there is some type of pressure put on a federal agency, there is no influence being pressed. It is the same as when politicians meet and accept freebies from lobbyists. If there is no quid pro quo, you can't say there was any influence put on anyone When there is an investigation of an illegal alien accused of narcotic traffic, I am sure plenty of politicians inquire about what is going on. They do it to have their ethnic constituency see how much they care for them (ie. get their votes).Why can't they do it here? No interference, no attempt to influence. Just a friendly WTF is going on here with some of the PEOPLE I am supposed to represent? |
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For our friends at CAV Arms, and for our belief in the country we live in. Stick in there and prevail. Give us hope that the country our military is defending is worth the price. |
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Keep up the faith CavArms!
This is a perfect example of how quickly the .gov can take away your livelihood. sst7 |
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Fair enough, but when you ask what is he going to DO, it looks like you are asking for more. It's very difficult to walk the tightrope between mere inquiry and attempting to influence. |
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We no longer have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.
We have a government against the people. |
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agreed |
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At what piont do you stand up and say enough ! ! ! ! ! |
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Asset Forfeiture is BIG BUSINESS to the government.
Read this report if you guys want the red curtain of blood to descend before your eyes. www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/ATF/a0637/intro.htm |
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Thats the MO of the ATF. |
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An interesting distinction between "valued property" and "unvalued property":
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I would at the very least, like to see him look into ATF's policies and their practices in general ,like the IRS is sometimes looked into by Congress; or like the FDA is often "investigated" when aspirins are not round enough or not white enough I would like one of the Congressional committes -like the ones that sometimes make "fact finding missions" to be sure Serbia,Haiti or Israel (Palestinians) is not oppressing the citizens under their government.........while our citizens are getting steamrolled by some of our own agencies I would like McCain -or anyone else with the Constitution in mind- look to see if ANY Federal agencies are overstepping their role as regulators/enforcers of the laws they are entrusted with in their jurisdiction. That would be good for a start |
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Sent to my reps:
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What would the best way to effectively use the huge mass of mostly likeminded people here to bring attention to this issue? A discussion on how to do this without doing further damage to Cav Arms seems in order. I'm not talking about babbling rants, but a well thought-out plan to involve folks who may be willing to help. This is a perfect example of abuse and this could be a good chance to illustrate it, IF done properly. Any good ideas on how to do this? I contacted my Congressman (Joe Barton) and received a pretty much canned letter back saying how much he supports the 2nd Amendment and nothing regarding the actual issue that I asked his response on... We need to figure out how to play the game (More effectively) that the libtards are winning. |
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"Civil asset forfeiture has allowed police to view all of America as some giant national K-Mart, where prices are not just lower, but non-existent — a sort of law enforcement 'pick-and-don't-pay."
—U.S. Representative Henry Hyde, |
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I think it would be a good idea to wait for the investigation to conclude before saying that this is a perfect example of abuse. I'm sure Cav has done nothing wrong, but it would make the gun community look terrible if we flood politicians with letters decrying the persecution of Cav Arms and it turned out that they did something illegal. |
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I'm not sure what we could do, but whatever we do, we should schedule it for the day the Supreme Court releases the Heller decision. That will put RKBA in the media. |
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So? Rosa Parks broke the law. She was guilty. The situation still was a rallying point to usher in change. |
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Assume innocence until guilt is proven. |
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That's what people get for confusing"Republican" with "conservative" or even "principled". Don't even get me started on the Dems... Someone at the ATF, possibly several someones, need to be charged with violation of Title 18 Sect 241/242. "Deprivation of Civil Rights under color of Law". If this doesn't meet that standard, nothing will... |
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You would do well to know why I posted the sixth before you spout off. Since I havent posted why you dont know. |
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Am I the only one who said WTF? while reading this? |
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Ed, the thread you removed is the one with the link for purchasing some of the Cav-aid stuff. Maybe we could reconstitute that post and link it to the now-dead link for the 'Cav Arms assistance plan' in the 'universal' tacked thread?
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Are you serious with that? Rosa Parks broke an unjust law. IF Cav Arms broke the law, we'd have to know which law it was in order to know if it was unjust, wouldn't we? |
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And I do. But there is a difference between assuming for yourself that one is innocent and proclaiming it to the entire world. |
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Oh, the part about the nature and cause of the accusation? That part? NO ACCUSATION HAS BEEN MADE. The Amendment begins with "In all criminal prosecutions..." There is no prosecution yet. No charges have been filed. The Sixth does not apply. |
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Most of us in the rest of the country are NOT as accepting of the government thumb as the people in your yankee state. Cav Arms is not some small nameless nobody without anybody to vouch for their integrity, they have a pretty large presence in the shooting community, lots of people that know them and all of us can tell you that they did NOTHING that could account for this kind of reaction. We may find that there is a paperwork mistake, or that they were taken advantage of by a criminal, but the goverment sword is treating them like they are the criminals, and we want to see it stopped BEFORE they ruin their lives, not wait till the damage is complete. |
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I see this as the perfect opportunity for Robinson Arms to make some amends to the firearms owning community by asking Mitt Romney to get involved. He may no longer be a presidential candidate but he is a former governor is he not? Did he not claim to support the 2nd amendment? Arizona is right next door to Utah. Robinson Arms could been the victim just as easily.
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My yankee state? Wow. My, what a witty retort. If you do not have direct personal knowledge of their guilt or innocence, you are merely speculating. You may be speculating based on a large amount of information and experience, but it's speculation nonetheless. Do you have this direct personal knowledge? |
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Do not forget where the American Revolution started |
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Very interesting... |
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Many politicians have. |
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Cav's FFL is still active. Do you think the feds would let them continue to engage in business AFTER a raid if the feds thought they were the criminals? As somebody else concluded, it seems like somebody else is being investigated instead of Cav, but that doesn't do a damn thing good for Cav. |
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All I can think of right now are the members at this site who have said,"Let's give this situation some time to see how it shakes down. I will reserve my support until it is determined CavArms is indeed innocent."
With support like that.... |
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I can't explain that and it doesn't make sense. Look, I'm sure this is a travesty of epic proportions. Supporting CavArms and donating money is one thing, but sending letters to politicians and candidates, proclaiming that these people are absolutely innocent and that there is no doubt about it, is another. It seriously harms our credibility and does nothing to help CavArms. The best and most effective way to support CavArms is with money, either via donations or by purchasing products. |
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At the Mayors against illegeal guns conference this week (which was on C-span) they were asking Director Sullivan why dealers or lose or turn in there license can keep the guns in a private collection after they have no license. They wanted all the guns turned into the BATFE and destoryed. If they had there way they would have already destroyed all of Calvarys inventory.
http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/home/home.shtml |
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It's an indicator of the amount of government injustice you are willing to accept in your life, and directly relates to your "We should just sit on our hands" view of this situation.
They are friends, I have no doubt that they have not intentionally participated in a crime which justifies this level of intrusion. |
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