As a new teacher, my parents (also teachers) gave me this advice:  "Stay out of the Teacher's Lounge.  It will only teach you bad things about good kids."

There is a very real chance that the behavior is being unintentionally reinforced by you and your wife OP.

I managed to get a roomful of 'bad kids' to sit down, do their homework and play nice with each other by using the above advice (not reinforcing expected bad behavior) and also by following some advice for class management that my mother gave me:

"Have no more than 5 rules.  Keep them simple.  Enforce them."

On the wall of my classroom (both HS and MS) there were the following rules posted for the 10 years I taught HS and MS:

1.  Be on time.
2.  Be prepared.
3.  Be polite.
4.  Be on-task.
5.  Be respectful.

Setting these very reasonable and clear rules enabled the kids in my class to know what was expected of them.

At the ages you are describing I think you have a two fold problem.

1.  You and your wife are both beat down, burnt out and frustrated.  Your fatigue is causing you to unintentionally reinforce the bad behavior.
2.  You have rules, but, probably too many to count or recite.  You gotta pare it down a bit, IMHO.

Might be time to sit down and trim up the situation in to something that is manageable and clear for every one.

TRG

So they should buy an extraordinarily expensive piece of property and start randomly farming with no experience? This will go well haha.

I have to go with this. When I was this age, I know my mother was near an anurism because I was the same way. That woman, bless her heart wailed on me at the drop of a hat and eventually, I got the message. She was clear that I was feeling the "wrath of god" because of MY behavior and disrespect.


Good luck OP

Quotes are in red below, because Arfcom's developers can't seem to figure out how to dynamically hide nested quotes.


My children have repugnant behavior. My son is highly disrespectful (argues, name calls (especially to me), rolls eyes, mimics, etc.) and rude to adults (especially me). He is on a behavior chart at school and a day never goes by where he doesn't get minuses for poor behavior (disrespectful to school staff, arguing with teachers, blurting, etc.). If a week goes by and he isn't sent to the principal's office at least twice for a time out (just get him out of the classroom) I would be amazed. My son also seems incapable of connecting his bad behavior to consequences. If he gets punished for bad behavior he doesn't seem to understand it is because of his behavior. Instead, he believes 100% that his punishment is because the teachers, or I, am "mean" to him.

One of two things is happening with your son - either he actually believes you are mean to him, or he's using telling you that as a mechanism to get you to modify your behavior.

If it's the former, then you have to sit down with him and communicate. Don't do so instead of punishment, do so in addition to punishment. He has to understand why he's being punished, what exact behaviors triggered it, and how he can prevent it in the future. Maybe he's right, and you are mean - as long as you're consistent, he'll learn how to please you (or at least stay out of trouble).

If it's the latter, your only weapon is consistency. Until his overall behavior improves, there is no leniency. Every time he mimics an adult, there is a specific punishment. It is applied every time. Every time he name calls, there is a specific punishment. Every time. When he calls you mean, sit him down and explain the rules in detail, and make damned sure he understands. In this case, he does understand, so the sitting down isn't done to ensure that, but to annoy the piss out of him and waste his time - make it more of a pain for him than it is to you.

My daughter is much less of a behavior concern than my son, unless the two of them are within ten feet of each other. At school she is fine - no behavior issues. At home she can be stubborn, but she eventually does what you ask of her. But get the two of them together and it's like a violent chemical reaction. They literally cannot stop pestering each other, hitting, kicking, making faces, name calling, etc. About the only time they cease trying to maim each other if is they are playing on their handheld video game things.

As far as I can tell, that's normal for siblings. Make sure they have their own spaces to get away from one another whenever possible. Mark off a corner of the room for each of them, and severely punish either of them for encroaching on the other's space.

The "handheld video game thing" sounds like an excellent compliance tool to me. Take that away when they misbehave. Yes, it's gonna suck for you to hear them whining and bitching about it, but it's going to get the point across.

Last night my wife came home in tears from the kids' 4H meeting. They were supposed to visit a retirement home to play Bingo and help the residents. My son the entire time kept lamenting aloud how "bored he was," and "when were they going to go home." Eventually my wife sat him in the corner so she and my daughter could play Bingo and help the residents. At the end of the night some of the kids from the 4H club put on a play for the residents. My kids, in the audience, were kicking, pushing, and pestering each other. Eventually my wife had to separate them on opposite side of the room until the play ended. And on the drive home the kids went at it again like lions and hyenas. After being grounded once they kept at it so they got grounded again. Both were very unhappy when they got home, and when I spoke with them my daughter understood she was grounded due to bad behavior, but said her behavior was "because of her brother bothering her." And my son complained that "Mom grounded me for no reason at all! She is mean!" Even after we clearly explained to him why he was grounded I could tell he wasn't making the connection.

My oldest is five, but when she starts to act out like that in public she first gets a mild talking-to: here's what you did wrong, don't do it again. You're embarrasing yourself.

If she does it again, I go deadpan. I pull her off to the side - far enough away that we're not in the middle of things, but not so far she doesn't feel everyone's eyes on her - and say something like: "This is your last chance. If you keep <whatever she was doing>, I'm taking you home right now, and you're going to bed as soon as we get home."

If she does it a third time, I calmly but firmly pick her up and leave. The first time I did this she kicked and screamed - my wife had said "you're embarrassing us!" when  my daughter started acting up. My daughter internally thought "Ohhh. If they don't want to be embarrassed, threatening to do that can help me get my way." Nope. We were at a dinner with two other families, and I literally held her under my arm like a football and calmly went around to each person, shook their hand, and apologized for my daughter's behavior. By the time we got to the car her tantrum had run out of steam and she fell asleep on the way home. More importantly, she never tried the "screaming in public" trick with us again.

You sound like you're in a situation where the first step should just be skipped. Before you go in lay out the ground rules, give them one warning, and then pull the cord as necessary. If you're out with your wife, that might mean taking the kid to the car and waiting for the rest of the family to get done with whatever they're doing. In that case you get to sit in the car and get screamed at for however long it takes! :)

What have we tried over the ~4 years this behavior has been occurring? Time-outs, spankings, grounding off favorite things, behavior charts, and 1-2-3 Magic. Consistent? Yes we are. Model good behavior ourselves? Very much so. Stable loving home? Yes. Spoiled kids? Probably a little, but far less than other families in our income bracket. Both my kids are doing very well academically, scoring well above average on their achievement exams.

It sounds like you're not as bad off in this as you fear. I suspect your kids have slowly pushed the limits, and you're much less consistent than you think you are. I see placing limits as a parent a lot like putting walls around them. Every so often, the kid will walk up and push on the wall. If it gives, they respect it a little bit less. They'll try pushing gently, they'll try bodyslamming into it at a full run - they need to see that those walls are solid. Those wall move farther and farther out as they get old, but they can never, under any circumstances, move as a result of being tested.

Einstein once said, insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I feel like I'm living proof of this. After ~4 years of dealing with this with no improvement my wife and I are at our wits' end. I guess we thought if we modeled good behavior, were consistent in our punishment of bad behavior, and rewarded good behavior, given time they would mature out of it. This has not been the case. My son is 10 1/2 yrs old, and my daughter turns 9 in a few weeks.

Please don't take this as me talking about you and your kids, because I don't know your family - but some kids are just little shits. I honestly believe that sometimes parenting isn't enough, and that a kid is just wired to be the way they are. I knew kids like that growing up; they couldn't help themselves but to get in trouble. They loved their family and had a great home life, but it's like they just didn't have the emotional filter I did, and when they got the urge to do something they did it regardless of consequences. Some of those kids learned to deal with it in their teens, one got his shit together after leaving the nest and crashing out in his early twenties, and the rest or general fuck-ups.

I work with a ton of psychologists now, and they all insist "oppositional defiant disorder" is a real thing. I don't know enough to say for sure, but I do know that some kids are little shits, and for them all you can do is continue to be consistent and be available to them regardless of how they act in return.

Any parents who dealt with behavior issue with your offspring have some advice on what to try? Because I'm all ears. Oh, and for the "beat your kids" crowd, yeah we spanked, and spanked, but it never resulted in them learning from their mistakes and not replicating bad behavior.

By age 4, spanking was by far the least effective punishment for my daughter. It would cause lots of emotional stress for all parties, and she definitely internalized it as personal. After sitting down with her for multiple hours, I came to the conclusion that she really wasn't using it as a tool against us, and that spanking her was damned near emotional abuse.

We've never said "We're not going to spank you anymore", but we did talk about it and laid out some rules on when it would happen. Those rules included using time outs first, and making it clear that the next step in punishment was a spanking - and yes, we included our four-year-old in establishing those rules. I felt than and feel now that she was developmentally ready for that, and was able to understand what was going on. I think we've spanked her three or four times in the two years since, and each time she deserved it, she knew she deserved it, and her emotional reaction to failing to correct her own behavior up to that point was far worse than the swats themselves.

Oh, and one final thing - never threaten something unless you mean to follow through. My wife once told my daughter that if she jumped off the couch again, she'd make her throw one of her "My Little Pony" toys into the fireplace. Well, not ten minutes passed and she did it again. My wife gathered up her ponies and put them in the cupboard - and I could see in my daughter's eyes the dawning realization that her mom had just chickened out. She knew she'd get those ponies back in a day or two, and that she'd won.

I quietly got up, pulled them out of the cupboard, and put them on the coffee table. I told my daughter to pick one to throw in the fire, and she lost her shit. I gave her a few minutes to collect herself, then told her again to pick one. This repeated a few times, and I finally told her that if she didn't pick one and throw it in the fire, I'd pick two and do it myself. She did.

That was a terrible experience - I hated every second of it, and I know it hurt both my wife and my daughter. My wife had said something in anger that she didn't mean, and my daughter really did love that toy. I also knew that if I let that wall get pushed back I'd only be teaching my daughter that if she was distraught enough over a punishment it would be lessened - and that it was OK to say something you don't mean in anger, because you can just change your mind later.

A couple of months later my daughter saved her money and bought a new one. She'd made the money to do that out metal detecting with me - so, again, it sucked to be the dad who made his little girl watch one of her favorite toys burn, but in the end she learned several valuable lessons she won't soon forget - mean the things you say, throwing a fit isn't going to allow you to escape culpability for things you've done wrong, that you make money by working for it, and that saving your money lets you buy the things you want.

My wife is big into the whole "no processed foods" thing. We grow our own garden each summer (one is 60'x40') and raise chickens so we get fresh eggs. I don't think diet is the culprit here, or at least adding much to the predicament.



 

any ideas on how I can try that on my adult daughters?

Psychiatrist or psychologist? The first is an MD who treats conditions with drugs--when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The second is a therapist who helps with trauma and other issues. For psychological issues, you should never be taking drugs for them if you aren't also getting counseling. That's treating the symptoms instead of the cause.

Get a second opinion--maybe from a behavioral psychologist. Tell them you aren't trying to get an ADHD/ODD diagnosed, but trying to help your kid. (See my other post about parents trying to get ADHD/ODD diagnoses when not merited.)

Look at the guidelines for ODD -- they aren't real strict or particularly difficult to meet--imagine being a kid who gets no exercise and is bored all day. How could you not exhibit these symptoms?
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/oppositional-defiant-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20024559

Oh, and regarding the daughter: do not let her make his behavior an excuse.  When she acts up make sure she is punished and that she[understands that that she is responsible for her behavior.

"But he hit me first!" always gets the same response from me: "First, you do not discipline your brother: you get mommy or daddy.  Second, life is like ice hockey: the second player is always the one that gets caught and gets the penalty.  Fair or not, that is how it often goes."

Find them something to do. Preferable hands on physical type work.  My oldest is somewhat like you describe, I got him into shaping and building surfboards about 2 years ago.  This helped occupy his time giving him less free time to think of stupid shit to do.  

He has now gained an appreciation for hard work and attention to details.  Not saying it was easy for him, but I see great improvements in him.

Kids need direction, also free time is the devil to some of them.  

YOU need to determine what he /she is going to do.  It will require much of your time, but will be worth it in the end.

One last thing, NEVER allow them to just go in their rooms and sit by themselves for hours on end. This is the most destructive thing a parent can do to/ for their child.   Kids think up the craziest things when alone, especially if they have internet access..........

This is awesome!

I see a lot of whip the shit out out of them comments.

I never liked physical punishment as a primary method for dealing with bad behavior. Too many parents don't know any other way but it can be effective for some kids.

What gets me is your quote.... " their handheld video game things"

I know what game systems my son plays and I know what games he plays. It makes me think you need to do some things that your son likes. At this age they are growing and exploring. Maybe I am wrong but it kinda sounds like you two are VERY different people and he is stuck with no power and limited choices. It can build resentment and increase acting out.

Also, this part Last night my wife came home in tears from the kids' 4H meeting. They were supposed to visit a retirement home to play Bingo and help the residents. My son the entire time kept lamenting aloud how "bored he was," and "when were they going to go home." I am pretty sure I would act just like your kids. I would have ZERO desire to join a 4H club, I would have ZERO desire to play bingo with old people.

Have you tried taking a trip with him, just you and him (not with a group)? Do you go see movies and talk about them? Does he read?

This all being said, physical discipline can help, especially with some kids.

I am SO tempted to do that with my 15 and 14 year old son.

No, he has no noticeable side effects. The drug he is on is a short-acting med, so it wears off right around the time he gets home from school (my wife gives it t him first thing in the morning at 5:30 am when he wakes up). We see the psychiatrist twice per year to have his levels checked and to monitor his growth/weight (because the Concerta can affect appetite and growth). So far it hasn't negatively affected his growth/weight.



 

Get the boy involved with sports if you haven't already. Keep him busy with all the seasonal sports that'll burn up negative energy and help with discipline and teamwork.

Find some brochures for strict military schools.  Just the threat of this may make them think twice.  

Take all their shit away.  No phone, no games, no tv in their bedrooms, etc.  

Get a mental health eval on them.

My son definitely has issues with authority figures. Which is why people like his teacher or me are often the focus of his behavioral outbursts.



 

Less medicated issues I was a little a hole as a kid.  It was out of boredom.  I didn't care much about getting a smacking either.  Find something the boy REALLY likes to do (not video games) that's productive and let him do it.  Now when you take that away and he has nothing else, you've got something on him.  Don't just take it away until he stops misbehaving either, but for a given duration.

Also try teaching him new personal sports he is not any good at.  Golf, etc.  Can't blame anyone but yourself for sucking.

Farming is not that difficult when all you need to grow are switches!

One of the things I am afraid of.



 

I think that after a certain age corporal punishment starts to lose its effectiveness.  9 - 10 years old, I'm not so sure -- haven't gotten there yet.  

But the punishment is only a part of discipline.  One has to get across the points that what you did was wrong; it will not be tolerated; you have to own your behavior and seek forgiveness; you have to change your ways, otherwise your apology was insincere; the punishments will continue.

OP -

Some really good advice in this thread.  One guy suggested some James Dobson stuff & I would whole heartedly agree.  When it comes to child raising that guy is really right.

Also, you mentioned that when your son mouths off at you, you warn him.  WTF?  Bust that butt right then and there.

My wife is more of a push over than I am.  She warns our kids and tries to reason with them and argue with them and wonders why they don't listen to her.

But then they jump up and go when I tell them to do something.  Its because the very moment they step out of line there is a consequence.

Also - have hope.  Its not too late to straighten them out, though I won't lie to you you're behind the curve and it will be harder.

my daughter was told years ago that sufficiently bad behavior woulfd esult in the removal of everything from her room except a mattress, pillow, and blanket ( door comes off, too).
things will be returned over a long period of time as behavior improves, so it's best to watch the behavior.

your kids haven't been made sufficiently uncomfortable to affect their behavior.

I've never laid a hand on my daughter; she knows I'll do everything I say that i will.

Which is exactly why you are getting the responses you are getting. The more info you give, the better advice you get.


It's like if someone started a thread asking advice in how to get pregnant, but not bothering to mention both parties are dudes. See what I'm getting at?

How many hours of sleep is the kid getting each day?

TRG

I have seen counting work -- blew my mind, because usually it is used as begging for behavior (as above) instead of a warning of impending doom, but the mother using counting effectively was much more in the latter camp and was not to be trifled with.

I do think it is a little dramatic, so go with "asking, telling, straight to punishment".

Einstein never said that


Your qualification of how spoiled they are raises red flags.

Remove all screens from their life and spend every second you can being with them, letting them know that they are your life and nothing means more to them than you


That's all i got.

This ^ ^ ^

Can't say I always have been successful following all of these rules, but I try.

1.Respond without anger: It’s important to respond to your child without anger—try to be as calm and matter-of-fact as possible. Just acknowledge the behavior, state it as you see it, explain how it will need to change and then remove yourself from all arguments. You really have to pick your battles and decide what’s most important to you—and ultimately to your child.

2.Be clear and consistent: The nature of his defiant behavior is to wear parents down so that they eventually give in. You need to be strong, clear and consistent in your follow through.

3. Do not take things personally. Do not take your child’s behavior personally. When your child acts out, as hard as it might be, stay as neutral and objective as possible. You need to be clear and concise and not get pulled into a power struggle—it’s really not about you, it’s about your child and what he needs to learn. We as parents sometimes need to be great actors and actresses with our kids. The key is to keep practicing calm, consistent parenting and following through.

4.Don’t be your child’s friend—be his parent: Remember, being a parent is not a personality contest. There are times when he won’t like you—he may even shout, “I hate you,” or call you foul names. But if you keep setting limits with your child and follow through by giving him consequences and holding him accountable, then ultimately you’re doing the best thing for your child.

Whatever you do, act now before they get older. Good luck.

It's about the size of a cigar, do I stutter?

All i can say is shock and awe. Those kids need an awakening. Go into their rooms while they are gone and take literally EVERYTHING out. Make them earn things back 1 at a time. If they do good in school, go a day without any sass or back talk they get 1 thing back. at the end of the week if they were good all week they get something bigger back. Each abuse of the rule, take a belt or spoon to their asses. They will get it eventually, bad behavior = pain and no priveleges, good behavior = no pain and priveleges. I know you said you spank in the OP but if the kids have stopped responding to it, do it harder. This was what my parents did to me when i was a stealing little shit in middle school. by the end of middle school i was a model citizen with some semi-permanent marks on my ass. I love my parents for doing it. I hated them at the time. Dont listen to the name calling after you do it. stay calm and dont discipline when your mad. know they will hate you now, but will thank you later.

Depends. In the summer we are really busy with sports, going swimming in the (above ground pop-up) pool or nearby lake, kids do summer camps, spend a week with the grandparents on their farm, we also fish in the local lake and usually take one small trip (camping, hiking, etc.). In the summer/fall the kids play on the trampoline,and we go on lots of nature hikes. Mix in there lots of play dates, chores, visits from my parents from California, taking care of our farm animals, sledding and playing in the snow in the winter, working on 4H projects, and our kids are pretty busy year-round.



I think the like to be with us, and most definatly like it when they get one-on-one time with one or both of us. Do they respect us, I don't think my son does based on his behavior.

This is about the 5th or 6th post I've seen of this.

It is TOTAL BULLSHIT and will NOT yield the desired results. If you all don't know a better way of getting the desired behavior out of a child than hitting them, you really shouldn't be parents.

OP, I'll put together a relevant post later when I have a moment. There could be one of several different things going on with your boy.

get some duct tape and rope and handcuffs...
let them learn to escape it might come in handy some day
they can take turns tie-ing each other up....
and some cardboard boxes and more duct tape...
you get the idea...
  n/m

I feel for you.  My father always told me "He who loses his temper, usually loses".  I found it near to impossible to keep calm when my son was giving me attitude in his mid to late teens.  Especially when he would bow up to me.  The idea of just knocking him out was tempting at times but I knew it was not the answer or solution.  We tried MMA  He spent his junior and senior year there and we saw improvement.  Managed to convince him to go into the Corp at A&M. One year and he was done.  He simply did not like the military aspect of life.  As sad as we were that he did not continue, I know that he learned from the experience.  Keep calm and don't lose the faith.  My son is 23 now and works for our business.  He still has attitude at times but boy o boy is life more pleasant.  It is tough being a parent, but you can never give up loving them.

I'd be looking for the right professional counselor.

I disagree with those that have said fear is an effective alternative to respect, particularly with ODD. If there's anything interfering with his respect for you address that first. At his age it's time for him to talk it out, what it is he wants from life, why he's behaving the way he is in an attempt to get it, why it's the wrong approach, what the consequences of continuing as he is will be (not just the immediate consequences but the long-term ones as well, kids have all sorts of funny ideas about the way life works) and what the rewards of change would be, again long term as well as immediate.

Then the boy needs work. Hard work, achievement, reward.

My kids go to a martial arts school where there personal behavior is monitored, they require reports on behavior from teachers and parents, lists of the chores and personal behaviors they're required to do on a daily basis, all of which leads to rewards, mostly acknowledgement of their achievements which they desire greatly.

They also work hard for their privileges.

ODD is a whole other ballgame I know, get a professional's advice, a good counselor that doesn't just prescribe drugs as a solution.

For my son, it is grounded off screen time (no TV, no video games, etc.). For my daughter it is grounded off her cat. We have found those are the two possessions/activities they hold most dear.



 

You did it wrong. You get 1 or 2 chances at most. After that they figure out you cant beat them to death. I used a belt. A big leather one. I was not angry but he thought I was the devil himself come for him. I laid it on him once. The rest of the times I hit my own leg with a loud crack and he screamed like a little girl. His brother saw this and I never had to do it to him. You are after all trying to correct their behaviour, not hurt them. The first time must be the end of the world for them.



Yes we tried bribery( he even got a cat he wanted) and grounding and everything else first. After my theatrical exercise he stopped getting detention and his grades improved greatly.



 

The expression on those boys faces

I was whooped at a early age...BOY go cut yourself a switch.... Nothing like a nice old school ass whooping

Lots of really good info in this thread, helpful suggestions (except 'beat him harder). I wonder what church the OP attends, also, is there constant parental attention or do both parents work?

I am so fortunate to have two kids that get along so unbelievably well, they can play together all day with nary a cross word most times. But they have always had very firm discipline. Pay attention to the good advice offered in this thread OP, and best wishes.

Tag for home.

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You could not have more directly struck the nail on the head.

There needs to be a healthy fear of your parents.  I love my kids and hug, tickle and wrestle with them.  But they all know, and fear.  Sounds cruel.  It isn't.  They will avoid all kinds of issues having limitations.  

Already seeing it in my 15 year old sons peers.  

More permissive parents when they (some of his friends or school mates) were younger, and now adult issues occurring with 15-16 year olds...not good.  And damn near impossible to put the genie back in the bottle...

Let me point you in the direction of Dr. Ray Guarendi .  

As I see it:  

You say you are consistent, but you have stopped spanking = not consistent.  

The ground-outs on top of ground-outs no longer means anything to him, as he is grounded now for the rest of his life.  Unless you are giving in to him, and then you are not consistent, and holding to your word.

As OnlineAllTheTime mentioned, You need to be right with your wife.  That impacts your children in ways you cannot even notice all the time.

I teach psychology.  Research has shown that temporarily taking things away as punishment will not work.  They will wait you out.  Bribing does not work either as it develops a  sense of entitlement.

Long term changes do work but they are very difficult.

1.  Take any TVs and computers out of the bedrooms.  Now.  If they want to watch, it is with you and your choices.  They are not on computers unless you can monitor them full-time.

2.  Reduce TV hours.  Watch certain shows but do not leave it on for background noise.

3.  Lay down the law....once.  Do not repeat yourself.  Do not argue.  Let them go balistic and you need to act as if they are mute.  If they start damaging things, then you have to stop them.

4.  Set a schedule.  They are up at a certain time.  They go to bed at a certain time.

5.  They do not hang out at their friends houses.

6.  They do homework.  Anything less than straight A's is not acceptable.

7.  If the boy goes on on his mom, grab him by the shirt and shove him up against the wall.  He needs to fear your reaction.  Don't let that shit ride.

You are the parent.  You are the boss.  You are not their friends.  

Hard to say, since the school is reluctant to share with parents much about school relationships between kids. But his behavior at school tends to alienate him. He has friends, but not many. One thing we have noticed, and that the teacher tells us, is my son lacks the "street-smarts" that the other kids his age are developing. For example, the other kids are figuring out A) do bad stuff, just don't do it when the teacher is looking, and B) if you did something bad and the teacher didn't see but asks you if you did, lie. My son hasn't figured out A, and for his faults he doesn't lie (B) often (or very well). Frequently other kids will be pestering him in class, and just as the teacher looks his way the other kids stop and are sitting perfectly while my son has turned around in his seat to tell them to stop, so he gets caught and in trouble.



 

Which is a horrible way to parent.

I behaved because I didn't want to let my dad down. His disappointment would devastate me.

My mom was hit with a belt by her dad who was a preacher and thought he was doing good, ruling with an iron thumb.

She had me when she was 17, conceived in her bedroom, next to her parents. Seems to have worked really well.

You can beat anyone into submission. When they think they can get away with it, they will do what they wish.