Caching weapons - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Caching weapons (Page 2 of 13)

Posted: 8/18/2010 9:55:42 AM EDT

[#1]

Guns are icky.

Posted: 8/18/2010 9:55:45 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

The weapons at this Denver show seem to have been designed by Klingons. Many are short, black, high-tech semi-automatics—ARs in the jargon—the civilian version of the rifles American soldiers carry in Iraq and Afghanistan. They fire a bullet unsuitable for most hunting, and are crusted with combat-ready lasers, flashlights, night-vision scopes, and red-dot sights. They start at around a thousand dollars. The tables that don’t cater to the AR crowd hold other modern man-killers: rough-finished Yugoslav AK-47’s for three hundred dollars apiece; Barrett .50-caliber rifles capable of penetrating an armored limousine; brand-new stainless-steel semi-automatic pistols with fifteen-shot clips selling for upwards of eight hundred dollars; tinny chrome-plated pocket pistols for less than a hundred bucks. There’s also plenty of body armor, web gear, combat fatigues, bayonets, silencers, stacks of thirty- and fifty-round magazines. It feels less like a “show” than an arms bazaar in Peshawar.

How are you going to portray the people who cached weapons?

and did Garand make a pistol?

"Clips???"

Mr. Baum...

Posted: 8/18/2010 9:56:13 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Just took a quick jaunt through this guy's "material" as linked above.

My opinion could be construed as a CoC violation.

I wouldn't tell him my favorite flavor of ice cream.

Gunpowder and sulfur?

Posted: 8/18/2010 9:57:15 AM EDT

[#4]

My ex wife got all the weapons in the divorce, so she could destroy them. She's a REAL danger to society. One time she hugged a tree so hard, it fell over, dead. She was inconsolable. That means 'a bitch', for those of you from Rio Linda.

Posted: 8/18/2010 9:57:51 AM EDT

[#5]

I don't have a weapon cache anymore... It's not that I'm against the idea, but I just don't have enough money to bury 10 AK's, 4 AR15's, 2 shotguns, 10 pistols, and 75,000 rounds of ammunition in my back yard...

Posted: 8/18/2010 9:58:44 AM EDT

[#6]

OP sounds fud-ish to me.

http://www.danbaum.com/Nine_Lives/Our_Gun_Thing/Entries/2010/6/29_3__DECEMBER_2009.html

I am trolling the Tanner Gun Show in Denver’s Mercantile Mart, looking for a waistband holster to fit my Colt .38. Men wearing cargo vests and camo caps tend hundreds of tables in a room as big as a blimp hangar. The shoppers are essentially the same folks with whom I’ve been attending gun shows for the past twenty years—middle-aged white guys, a few of whom have brought along their wives or teenage sons. They’re moving slowly, hefting pistols, sighting along rifle barrels, making the snappy music of bolts and actions.

What has changed in the past two decades are the types of guns and the vibe. In the early nineties, gun shows were low-key. It was easy to see the men behind the tables as little odder than camera or model-train buffs. I liked guns and hunting; these guys liked them a little more. Most of the guns were hunting rifles and fowling pieces. Handguns were vintage Colt Peacemakers, finely engraved commemoratives, or dueling pistols: show guns.

The weapons at this Denver show seem to have been designed by Klingons. Many are short, black, high-tech semi-automatics—ARs in the jargon—the civilian version of the rifles American soldiers carry in Iraq and Afghanistan. They fire a bullet unsuitable for most hunting, and are crusted with combat-ready lasers, flashlights, night-vision scopes, and red-dot sights. They start at around a thousand dollars. The tables that don’t cater to the AR crowd hold other modern man-killers: rough-finished Yugoslav AK-47’s for three hundred dollars apiece; Barrett .50-caliber rifles capable of penetrating an armored limousine; brand-new stainless-steel semi-automatic pistols with fifteen-shot clips selling for upwards of eight hundred dollars; tinny chrome-plated pocket pistols for less than a hundred bucks. There’s also plenty of body armor, web gear, combat fatigues, bayonets, silencers, stacks of thirty- and fifty-round magazines. It feels less like a “show” than an arms bazaar in Peshawar.

The amiable gents I remember are mostly gone, too. Vendors stand behind their tables with shoulders back and fists balled, visibly and mysteriously angry. “Buy it now,” a bearded man growls as I handle one of his AKs. “Tomorrow they may not let you.” He’s wearing a t-shirt that reads, “Welcome to America, Speak English or Get the Hell Out.” A square-jawed woman at the booth of Florida-based Equip 2 Conceal warns, “The way crime is going you can’t afford not to carry a gun.” For a hundred and ten dollars, she says, Equip 2 Conceal will run me through a three-hour course and let me walk out of here legally qualified to carry a concealed handgun. Another table offers posters of Klansmen over the words, “The Original Boys in the Hood,” and such books as Can You Survive? Guidelines for Resistance to Tyranny for You and Your Family, with a cover depicting a blood-dripping Commie sickle slicing through a U.S. map. Across the tables and at the snack bar, conversations are full of furious references to the “jackbooted thugs” of the ATF, liberal “gun-grabbers,” and the difference between the “real Americans” of the west and the “elites” of Washington and New York.

This kind of talk has been around since the Clinton years, and gun shows started militarizing after 9/11. But at the Tanner Show, I am aware of how thoroughly they’ve taken over gun culture. What’s odd is that gun guys have little to be angry about; they’ve won just about every battle they’ve fought for decades. The assault-rifle ban of the Clinton years is long since repealed. The Supreme Court just settled two hundred years of debate by ruling that the Second Amendment confers an individual right to own a firearm, not just a “militia” right. The number of people carrying concealed weapons has exploded, because almost all state legislatures have made carrying a gun a right, not a matter of local discretion. As for “the way crime is going,” it’s been dropping for a dozen years. Gun guys should be celebrating.

After Barack Obama was elected, though, I had a hard time buying cartridges for hunting season —and handgun ammunition, forget it. Hoarding emptied store gun racks, stripped bare the cartridge shelves, and shot prices through the roof. A popular poster at the Tanner show is Obama’s smiling face with “Firearms Salesman of the Year” below it—that and his mug shot in Joker make-up over the word “Socialism.” As the first unabashed urban-intellectual president most gun owners can remember, President Obama pushes all kinds of buttons. It’s an article of faith that he intends to ban private guns and confiscate them the minute he gets the economy fixed, health care passed, and Afghanistan pacified. A lot of the fear and anger is ginned up by the NRA. But it’s real.
#3: DECEMBER 2009
6/29/10

Posted: 8/18/2010 9:59:41 AM EDT

[#7]

Tagged for the inevitable hilarity...

Posted: 8/18/2010 9:59:48 AM EDT

[#8]

Son, I would not tell you the time of day if I had the last clock on earth.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:00:56 AM EDT

[#9]

Several years ago I stopped purchasing US Savings Bonds, to stop feeding the beast. I switched over to an auto deduction that is sent to my local FFL. Every two months he sells me a new AR-7 because of this entry in wikipedia:

The ArmaLite AR-7 Explorer, designed by Eugene Stoner, is the civilian-commercial version of a rifle developed for the US Air Force as a pilot and aircrew survival weapon. Its intended markets are backpackers and other recreational users as a knockabout utility rifle. AR-7 is often recommended by outdoor users of recreational vehicles (automobile, airplane or boat) who might have need for a weapon for foraging or defense in a wilderness emergency.

I then put it in a 6" PVC tube, with a threaded plug on one and and a glued cap on the other. I use a soldering iron and write, "Property of USGS - Do not disturb" on the capped end. I pour in some dessicant, stuff or roll in some poly tarp, add 50' of paracord, one Mountain House 2-serving Chicken Polynesian and a freeze-dried neopolitan ice cream, three us quarters, a $5 bill, and the previous two months of Playboy then bury them using a posthole digger under Interstate overpasses or in the exact center under high-voltage transmission lines. I am always very careful to save the plug of vegetation and put the dirt on a tarp, then replace the plug as neatly as possible.

I then return to my basement and log the location in the margin of a Bible.

Hope this helps.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:02:05 AM EDT

[#10]

Baum, if you are serious about learning about the "gun thing" and you are really making your way around to talk to shooters and gun owners, I invite you to Missouri to learn.

My club has a long list of activity where you can get a concentrated overview of some of the various things gun owners do with their weapons. http://www.shootingstl.com/schedule.htm If you're sincere, I'll take you to the range to get you some hands on experience with a variety of (uncached) firearms at no cost to you. With an open mind, you might gain a glimmer of understanding that will help answer the question at the top of your blog. However, part of your question, in particular about the meaning of the words in the Second Amendment will require you to educate yourself by digging into the writings of the Founders; they leave no doubt about their intent. The historical meaning of words is important, in this case, "militia". Put into proper 18th Century context, you'll also come to understand the meaning and intent of the Second Amendment.

After reading more of your blog, I'll add this -

The Second Amendment of the Constitution is not about hunting. You're making an enormous mistake if you believe that is the case, and if you do, it further illuminates your ignorance on the topic of the "gun thing".

Firearms are indeed different than beer steins or matchbooks. They are inert machines that can be used for recreation or as deadly weapons. Their use depends on the character of the user, to paraphrase Jeff Cooper. (A man of stature that you might profit from studying.)

Who wants to bet me that this thread will be featured in a magazine article?

[He might be a candidate for the Shelley Seale manuevuer.]

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:05:00 AM EDT

[#11]

From what little I have read so far he is a sensationalist.

"Barrett .50-caliber rifles capable of penetrating an armored limousine"

Give him nothing.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:05:09 AM EDT

[#12]

No, thank you, mister agent, sir.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:05:18 AM EDT

[#13]

It’s an article of faith that [Obama] intends to ban private guns and confiscate them the minute he gets the economy fixed, health care passed, and Afghanistan pacified. A lot of the fear and anger is ginned up by the NRA. But it’s real.

Why would we have that idea?

"We need to express our collective anger through collective action," Obama said.

He said the government needs to permanently reinstate an assault weapons ban and close regulatory loopholes that protect unscrupulous gun dealers.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:05:31 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
OP sounds fud-ish to me.

http://www.danbaum.com/Nine_Lives/Our_Gun_Thing/Entries/2010/6/29_3__DECEMBER_2009.html

After Barack Obama was elected, though, I had a hard time buying cartridges for hunting season —and handgun ammunition, forget it. Hoarding emptied store gun racks, stripped bare the cartridge shelves, and shot prices through the roof. A popular poster at the Tanner show is Obama’s smiling face with “Firearms Salesman of the Year” below it—that and his mug shot in Joker make-up over the word “Socialism.” As the first unabashed urban-intellectual president most gun owners can remember, President Obama pushes all kinds of buttons. It’s an article of faith that he intends to ban private guns and confiscate them the minute he gets the economy fixed, health care passed, and Afghanistan pacified. A lot of the fear and anger is ginned up by the NRA. But it’s real.
#3: DECEMBER 2009
6/29/10[/span]

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:05:38 AM EDT

[#15]

DU is that way––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––>

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:05:54 AM EDT

[#16]

I did "cache" some of my guns many years ago at this location. 43°52′44.21″N 103°27′35.37″W

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:07:15 AM EDT

[#17]

Wait, AR-15s can't fire suitable bullets for hunting, now?

WHY DIDN'T ANYONE TELL ME!!!

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:12:46 AM EDT

[#18]

Did this guy really think this was going to go well for him

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:12:48 AM EDT

[#19]

You don't belong here.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:12:57 AM EDT

[#20]

My cache site:

Click Here For My Cache

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:13:12 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
For a book that I am writing, I am interested in meeting/interviewing people who cache weapons. To get a sense of who I am and where I come from, look at www.danbaum.com, and also see the August issue of Harper's magazine, where I wrote a piece about concealed carry. If you're interested in talking to me, please email [email protected]. Thank you.

You really don't know anything do you?

Hang around these forums for 6 months, and participate in the discussions. You will get educated soon enough.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:13:13 AM EDT

[#22]

Discovery narrator voice:

After watching and observing the pride for sometime, the researcher decides to make contact with his subjects.

As he creeps to their den, he asks them a question...

While what he asked was muffled.. the visually striking image of his body being drugged and torn, lends one to think he asked the wrong question to the wrong pride..

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:13:16 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I would suggest that everyone read the other gun articles written by Mr. Baum before deciding whether or not to speak with him.

http://www.danbaum.com/Nine_Lives/Our_Gun_Thing/Our_Gun_Thing.html

Sarah Brady has Second Amendment rights too: the right to have the militia –– the community of armed citizens –– well regulated.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:14:00 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Ah, I should have clarified:
1. By caching I mean burying, against the contingency of either confiscation or social breakdown.
2. I can mask the person's identity and location.
3. I really don't need any paranoid dickheads accusing me of being an ATF agent. You don't want to deal with me, fine. But hold off on the insults. Let's be gentlemen.

Watch your mouth pal.

Some of us don't like labels.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:14:24 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Ah, I should have clarified:

1. By caching I mean burying, against the contingency of either confiscation or social breakdown.

2. I can mask the person's identity and location.

3. I really don't need any paranoid dickheads accusing me of being an ATF agent. You don't want to deal with me, fine. But hold off on the insults. Let's be gentlemen.

Calling people "paranoid dickheads", then telling them to hold off the insults and be gentlemen... I don't suppose you've written any articles on how to win friends and influence people, have you?

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:15:01 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Several years ago I stopped purchasing US Savings Bonds, to stop feeding the beast. I switched over to an auto deduction that is sent to my local FFL. Every two months he sells me a new AR-7 because of this entry in wikipedia:

The ArmaLite AR-7 Explorer, designed by Eugene Stoner, is the civilian-commercial version of a rifle developed for the US Air Force as a pilot and aircrew survival weapon. Its intended markets are backpackers and other recreational users as a knockabout utility rifle. AR-7 is often recommended by outdoor users of recreational vehicles (automobile, airplane or boat) who might have need for a weapon for foraging or defense in a wilderness emergency.

I then put it in a 6" PVC tube, with a threaded plug on one and and a glued cap on the other. I use a soldering iron and write, "Property of USGS - Do not disturb" on the capped end. I pour in some dessicant, stuff or roll in some poly tarp, add 50' of paracord, one Mountain House 2-serving Chicken Polynesian and a freeze-dried neopolitan ice cream, three us quarters, a $5 bill, and the previous two months of Playboy then bury them using a posthole digger under Interstate overpasses or in the exact center under high-voltage transmission lines. I am always very careful to save the plug of vegetation and put the dirt on a tarp, then replace the plug as neatly as possible.

I then return to my basement and log the location in the margin of a Bible.

Hope this helps.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:15:51 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ah, I should have clarified:
1. By caching I mean burying, against the contingency of either confiscation or social breakdown.
2. I can mask the person's identity and location.
3. I really don't need any paranoid dickheads accusing me of being an ATF agent. You don't want to deal with me, fine. But hold off on the insults. Let's be gentlemen.

You want us to be gentlemen and you call us dickheads? Really? Really?

Seriously? WTF?

Dan, I suggest you take yourself over to DU and ask your question. I'm a paranoid dickhead and I don't need you to tell me, now piss off.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:16:28 AM EDT

[#28]

your basic misunderstanding of the english language, or deliberate misinterpretation thereof, leads me to believe you are not the type of person to engage in any real conversation with.

PS: i suspect you asked this question here, as opposed to some place like rimfirecentral.com, is because you suspect US to be the paranoid/delusional gunshow commando type you've outlined in some of your other "writings". to that inference i respond with a heat-felt "fuck you".

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:17:26 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Several years ago I stopped purchasing US Savings Bonds, to stop feeding the beast. I switched over to an auto deduction that is sent to my local FFL. Every two months he sells me a new AR-7 because of this entry in wikipedia:

The ArmaLite AR-7 Explorer, designed by Eugene Stoner, is the civilian-commercial version of a rifle developed for the US Air Force as a pilot and aircrew survival weapon. Its intended markets are backpackers and other recreational users as a knockabout utility rifle. AR-7 is often recommended by outdoor users of recreational vehicles (automobile, airplane or boat) who might have need for a weapon for foraging or defense in a wilderness emergency.

I then put it in a 6" PVC tube, with a threaded plug on one and and a glued cap on the other. I use a soldering iron and write, "Property of USGS - Do not disturb" on the capped end. I pour in some dessicant, stuff or roll in some poly tarp, add 50' of paracord, one Mountain House 2-serving Chicken Polynesian and a freeze-dried neopolitan ice cream, three us quarters, a $5 bill, and the previous two months of Playboy then bury them using a posthole digger under Interstate overpasses or in the exact center under high-voltage transmission lines. I am always very careful to save the plug of vegetation and put the dirt on a tarp, then replace the plug as neatly as possible.

I then return to my basement and log the location in the margin of a Bible.

Hope this helps.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:17:43 AM EDT

[#30]

wow, nice definition of 'regulated'

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:17:47 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Several years ago I stopped purchasing US Savings Bonds, to stop feeding the beast. I switched over to an auto deduction that is sent to my local FFL. Every two months he sells me a new AR-7 because of this entry in wikipedia:

The ArmaLite AR-7 Explorer, designed by Eugene Stoner, is the civilian-commercial version of a rifle developed for the US Air Force as a pilot and aircrew survival weapon. Its intended markets are backpackers and other recreational users as a knockabout utility rifle. AR-7 is often recommended by outdoor users of recreational vehicles (automobile, airplane or boat) who might have need for a weapon for foraging or defense in a wilderness emergency.

I then put it in a 6" PVC tube, with a threaded plug on one and and a glued cap on the other. I use a soldering iron and write, "Property of USGS - Do not disturb" on the capped end. I pour in some dessicant, stuff or roll in some poly tarp, add 50' of paracord, one Mountain House 2-serving Chicken Polynesian and a freeze-dried neopolitan ice cream, three us quarters, a $5 bill, and the previous two months of Playboy then bury them using a posthole digger under Interstate overpasses or in the exact center under high-voltage transmission lines. I am always very careful to save the plug of vegetation and put the dirt on a tarp, then replace the plug as neatly as possible.

I then return to my basement and log the location in the margin of a Bible.

Hope this helps.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:18:52 AM EDT

[#32]

1) Cover weapon in grease. Place weapon in .6 mil lawn sack. Pull all the air out with a straw, spin and crush tie closed.
2) Do the same with magazines individually, and 2x ammo for those mags.
3) Tape all baged mags and ammo to the baged rifle.
4) Use another lawn sack. All this should be fairly sleek and contoured. Use alot of tape to compress size.
5) Pad all hard angles, and bag and tape again. It is now ready to be stashed long term. Even under water.

Www.nobullshitsurvival.com

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:19:28 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Ah, I should have clarified:
1. By caching I mean burying, against the contingency of either confiscation or social breakdown.
2. I can mask the person's identity and location.
3. I really don't need any paranoid dickheads accusing me of being an ATF agent. You don't want to deal with me, fine. But hold off on the insults. Let's be gentlemen.

"paranoid dickheads" ???

Now thats not a nice way to talk about all of your new friends now is it?

Nobody has stooped as low as you have so far in this thread. A few funny jabs and a few crazy picts. No real name calling or PERSONAL ATTACKS as you just did though.
PLEASE SEE ....COC#6

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:20:26 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Did this guy really think this was going to go well for him

Of course not. Guys like Dan have a purpose outside the obvious for everything they do. The responses given will be used in some manner to paint the folks in GD in a negative light.

Quoted:
3. I really don't need any paranoid dickheads accusing me of being an ATF agent. You don't want to deal with me, fine. But hold off on the insults. Let's be gentlemen.

Oh, the irony. Do as you say, not as you do, right?

Mr. Baum, your articles are full of misinformation, misgivings, incorrect terminology, and sensationalism. Why do you think any of us would really want to be lumped into any of the bull crap you're shoveling?

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:22:49 AM EDT

[#35]

I actually cache quite a few weapons.

The trick is, don't bury them in YOUR yard or land, bury them in your NEIGHBOR'S yard.

That way, when the officials come to confiscate them; you rat out your neighbor, get the reward, and use the money to bribe officials for safe passage Mexico.

Gotta be smart about what you are doing.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:23:16 AM EDT

[#36]

But we told him he is a *&$%#@& Very Politely

while avoiding potty mouth language.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:23:39 AM EDT

[#37]

Well now that we are all in our respective corners, maybe we can use the rest of the thread still on the spool to educate him in a responsible and welcoming way.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:24:41 AM EDT

[#38]

I saved myself time and just buried my whole safe.

I wrapped it shrink wrap and rented a backhoe.

DONE!

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:25:06 AM EDT

[#39]

I'd go for locking this thread and banning the OP for trolling and personal insults.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:27:14 AM EDT

[#40]

WOOT

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:27:20 AM EDT

[#41]

Swing and a miss.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:27:37 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

I'd go for locking this thread and banning the OP for trolling and personal insults.

Id go for it also.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:28:50 AM EDT

[#43]

W.....T......F......

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:29:33 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
DU is that way––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––>

<––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-I'm conrfused, I thought it was this way.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:30:52 AM EDT

[#45]

"Unabashed urban intellectual" is how he describes Obama?!????

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:31:10 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
DU is that way––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––>

<––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-I'm conrfused, I thought it was this way.

He probably has his layout set up such that an arrow pointing to the left would be pointing at his avatar.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:31:53 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'd go for locking this thread and banning the OP for trolling and personal insults.

Id go for it also.

I'd support banning the OP, but not locking this thread. It's instructional and informative.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:33:05 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
My cache site:

Click Here For My Cache

Awsome!

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:34:39 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
wow, nice definition of 'regulated'

This.

Mr. Baum, I'm sure you've heard by now that "Well-Regulated" means "Well-Trained." But I repeat this for your benefit.

http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html

Well Regulated

The Random House College Dictionary (1980) gives four definitions for the word "regulate," which were all in use during the Colonial period and one more definition dating from 1690 (Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd Edition, 1989). They are:

1) To control or direct by a rule, principle, method, etc.
2) To adjust to some standard or requirement as for amount, degree, etc.
3) To adjust so as to ensure accuracy of operation.
4) To put in good order.

[obsolete sense]
b. Of troops: Properly disciplined. Obs. rare-1.

1690 Lond. Gaz. No. 2568/3 We hear likewise that the French are in a great Allarm in Dauphine and Bresse, not having at present 1500 Men of regulated Troops on that side.

We can begin to deduce what well-regulated meant from Alexander Hamilton's words in Federalist Paper No. 29:

The project of disciplining all the militia of the United States is as futile as it would be injurious if it were capable of being carried into execution. A tolerable expertness in military movements is a business that requires time and practice. It is not a day, nor a week nor even a month, that will suffice for the attainment of it. To oblige the great body of the yeomanry and of the other classes of the citizens to be under arms for the purpose of going through military exercises and evolutions, as often as might be necessary to acquire the degree of perfection which would entitle them to the character of a well regulated militia, would be a real grievance to the people and a serious public inconvenience and loss.
––- The Federalist Papers, No. 29.

Hamilton indicates a well-regulated militia is a state of preparedness obtained after rigorous and persistent training. Note the use of 'disciplining' which indicates discipline could be synonymous with well-trained.

This quote from the Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 also conveys the meaning of well regulated:

Resolved , That this appointment be conferred on experienced and vigilant general officers, who are acquainted with whatever relates to the general economy, manoeuvres and discipline of a well regulated army.
––- Saturday, December 13, 1777.

In the passage that follows, do you think the U.S. government was concerned because the Creek Indians' tribal regulations were superior to those of the Wabash or was it because they represented a better trained and disciplined fighting force?

That the strength of the Wabash Indians who were principally the object of the resolve of the 21st of July 1787, and the strength of the Creek Indians is very different. That the said Creeks are not only greatly superior in numbers but are more united, better regulated, and headed by a man whose talents appear to have fixed him in their confidence. That from the view of the object your Secretary has been able to take he conceives that the only effectual mode of acting against the said Creeks in case they should persist in their hostilities would be by making an invasion of their country with a powerful body of well regulated troops always ready to combat and able to defeat any combination of force the said Creeks could oppose and to destroy their towns and provisions.
––- Saturday, December 13, 1777.

I am unacquainted with the extent of your works, and consequently ignorant of the number or men necessary to man them. If your present numbers should be insufficient for that purpose, I would then by all means advise your making up the deficiency out of the best regulated militia that can be got.
––- George Washington (The Writings of George Washington, pp. 503-4, (G.P. Putnam & Sons, pub.)(1889))

The above quote is clearly not a request for a militia with the best set of regulations. (For brevity the entire passage is not shown and this quote should not be construed to imply Washington favored militias, in fact he thought little of them, as the full passage indicates.)

But Dr Sir I am Afraid it would blunt the keen edge they have at present which might be keept sharp for the Shawnese &c: I am convinced it would be Attended by considerable desertions. And perhaps raise a Spirit of Discontent not easily Queld amongst the best regulated troops, but much more so amongst men unused to the Yoak of Military Discipline.
––- Letter from Colonel William Fleming to Col. Adam Stephen, Oct 8, 1774, pp. 237-8. (Documentary History of Dunmore's War, 1774, Wisconsin historical society, pub. (1905))

And finally, a late-17th century comparison between the behavior of a large collection of seahorses and well-regulated soldiers:

One of the Seamen that had formerly made a Greenland Voyage for Whale-Fishing, told us that in that country he had seen very great Troops of those Sea-Horses ranging upon Land, sometimes three or four hundred in a Troop: Their great desire, he says, is to roost themselves on Land in the Warm Sun; and Whilst they sleep, they apppoint one to stand Centinel, and watch a certain time; and when that time's expir'd, another takes his place of Watching, and the first Centinel goes to sleep, &c. observing the strict Discipline, as a Body of Well-regulated Troops
––- (Letters written from New-England, A. D. 1686. P. 47, John Dutton (1867))

The quoted passages support the idea that a well-regulated militia was synonymous with one that was thoroughly trained and disciplined, and as a result, well-functioning. That description fits most closely with the "to put in good order" definition supplied by the Random House dictionary. The Oxford dictionary's definition also appears to fit if one considers discipline in a military context to include or imply well-trained.

What about the Amendment's text itself? Considering the adjective "well" and the context of the militia clause, which is more likely to ensure the security of a free state, a militia governed by numerous laws (or the proper amount of regulation [depending on the meaning of "well"] ) or a well-disciplined and trained militia? This brief textual analysis also suggests "to put in good order" is the correct interpretation of well regulated, signifying a well disciplined, trained, and functioning militia.

And finally, when regulated is used as an adjective, its meaning varies depending on the noun its modifying and of course the context. For example: well regulated liberty (properly controlled), regulated rifle (adjusted for accuracy), and regulated commerce (governed by regulations) all express a different meaning for regulated. This is by no means unusual, just as the word, bear, conveys a different meaning depending on the word it modifies: bearing arms, bearing fruit, or bearing gifts.

Posted: 8/18/2010 10:34:40 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
I'd go for locking this thread and banning the OP for trolling and personal insults.

this is why we can't have nice things

entertainment value. it's what GD is all about, let it go.

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