So when have a couple people that claim to have seen BF many many times, yet no pics or proof.


The stories are great but they are just stories.





I hoist the

Quoted: So when have a couple people that claim to have seen BF many many times, yet no pics or proof....

Here's a website with a good collection of pics and some videos. Go to the bigfoot encounters website, on the left side of the page find and click on Videos, Pictures, and Sounds. Look at the Freeman video.
You've got nothing to lose.

Quoted: Quoted: So when have a couple people that claim to have seen BF many many times, yet no pics or proof.... I know you'll call fake or fraud on this but it's still worth posting. i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/danc46/th_freeman.jpg

Could the quality get any worse.

You cannot see shit in that video.

Quoted: Quoted: So when have a couple people that claim to have seen BF many many times, yet no pics or proof.... I know you'll call fake or fraud on this but it's still worth posting. i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/danc46/th_freeman.jpg

Wow!  Now that's something that you can't argue with!

Quoted: So when have a couple people that claim to have seen BF many many times, yet no pics or proof. The stories are great but they are just stories. I hoist the

Some people its a once in a lifetime ever. Others seem to be bigfoot magnets. I have a hard time believing they possibly exist ( ther is no reason they cant). What gets me even more is when people speak matter of fact about bigfoot behavior.

Quoted: Quoted: So when have a couple people that claim to have seen BF many many times, yet no pics or proof.... I know you'll call fake or fraud on this but it's still worth posting. It doesn't show up well from photobucket.com but you can go to www.bigfootencounters.com and look under the pictures and videos and probably get a much better quality view of the video. i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/danc46/th_freeman.jpg

Isnt he a known hoaxer?

Quoted: \ Some people its a once in a lifetime ever. Others seem to be bigfoot magnets. I have a hard time believing they possibly exist ( ther is no reason they cant). What gets me even more is when people speak matter of fact about bigfoot behavior.

What is the deal with that, there are people in here posting about the behavior of a creature that does not exist.


Why are they the experts?

Bigfoot likes BBQ?


Bigfoot hates electronics?

Quoted: Could the quality get any worse. You cannot see shit in that video.

I agree. Go to the bigfootencounters.com website, look on the left side of the page  and click on Videos, Images, and Sounds. You'll get a list up, look for the Freeman Video. It should give a much better video than photobucket does.

I am probably as skeptical and cynical as the next person, but after reading the entire thread I believe it's possible that they're out there.

I tend to put a lot of faith into what Native Americans believe and every people/tribe seems to have their own word for BF.  The one thing that doesn't make sense to me is that whereas the natives believe the omnivore will definitely eat you, you have other reports where they cared for children.  Of course, it could simply be a case of a protective female and no shortage of food.  But if times were hard...

Muddydog, back when you mentioned the child and his "friend" you also said something in reference to BF and coyotes.  What is the story on the coyotes?

Quoted: Quoted: \ Some people its a once in a lifetime ever. Others seem to be bigfoot magnets. I have a hard time believing they possibly exist ( ther is no reason they cant). What gets me even more is when people speak matter of fact about bigfoot behavior. What is the deal with that, there are people in here posting about the behavior of a creature that does not exist. Why are they the experts? Bigfoot likes BBQ? Bigfoot hates electronics?

XD I respect your viewpoint, and had I not seen it with my own eyes from 6 feet away I'd be right with you.

I haven't read all the posts,  but I've never claimed to be a bigfoot expert. Muddydog clearly spends time actually looking for them,  I've never done that,

but I'll tell you this,  I don't really have any reason to make up a story like that.  It's easier to just go back to the survival forum or the reloading board and learn some new stuff but before I do,  don't be so sure they are BS cause I'm telling you,  they are not.  Or at least one of them are not.

If Bigfoot is real or not you're never going to find out by sitting in front of a computer  arguing about it on teh interwebs.  

If you don't believe, that's fine.  If you do believe, that's also fine.

Why is everyone begging for a photo or video they are only going to call BS on?

muddydog is correct.  A body (preferably complete) will be the only thing to prove it.  

This has been a good thread but I think it's ready to implode.  Let's try and let it die with dignity and without a shit fest.

OST

Quoted: If Bigfoot is real or not you're never going to find out by sitting in front of a computer  arguing about it on teh interwebs.   If you don't believe, that's fine.  If you do believe, that's also fine. Why is everyone begging for a photo or video they are only going to call BS on? muddydog is correct.  A body (preferably complete) will be the only thing to prove it.   This has been a good thread but I think it's ready to implode.  Let's try and let it die with dignity and without a shit fest.

I don't see this as a "Prove Bigfoot is real" thread.....that would be insane.

This is a bigfoot fanclub and share stories thread.  

You know......Bigfoot pRon  

When were Mountain Gorillas found in Asia? Wasn't it in the 60s?

I may be wrong but IIRC, I think that's the case. If a creature as large as a MG could be an unkown until 40yrs ago, Why couldn't a BF?

Quoted: I have heard about grizzlis being reintroduce to the North Cascades, I guess one could migrate to Wenachee. My buddies that claim to have seen bigfoot were together on Mt. Rainier National Park land about 8 miles from the main park. DOwn in te area where the Park housing and Command center are located, between Ashford. I guess I should not doubt them as they are freinds. One of them swore up and down for years that he got bitten by a lady bug and did not believe him. About 10 years ago I was working on a house replacing the siding. I pulled off an old piece of siding and ended up covered in lady bugs and proceded to bite th hell out of me. Who knows when it come to bigfoot. But I now know the truth about lady bugs.

one of the most interesting reports came from Mt Ranier..if i am correct.
it had to do with an army unit based out of somewhere in WA, on night manuevers.

they were pelted with Apples all night long, the next day hundreds of apples were all around them.

i think that was Mt Ranier.

Apples?  Thats weird. Do you think they were playing a game?

Quoted: Apples?  Thats weird. Do you think they were playing a game?

no..
thats what was available to throw..i imagine.

Quoted: Quoted: Apples?  Thats weird. Do you think they were playing a game? no.. thats what was available to throw..i imagine.

Ahhh, so if there had been rocks around it would have been ugly. What makes you say no so fast, are these animals not know to "play"  other primates do.

Muddy

invest in some good hood-style blindfolds and start charging a small fee to take the naysayers out for some FOOT surveys.

Do some long around about way of going to the spot, you know "ABDUCTION DISORIENTATION STYLE" that the tinfoil helmet types fear.
search them good for gps tracking devices, no cell phones or weapons....hell get some onesize fits all coveralls...oh and DEPENDS....YOU DON'T WANT THAT SMELL IN YER TRUCK!!!

since I threw it out there I wanna go for free.... and there is a good chance I'm gonna mess my pants.

Cool story from Teddy Roosevelt. Allegedly he got it from a person and put it in his book The Wilderness Hunter,.

"Frontiersmen are not, as a rule, apt to be very superstitious. They lead lives too hard and practical, and have too little imagination in things spiritual and supernatural. I have heard but few ghost stories while living on the frontier, and those few were of a perfectly commonplace and conventional type. But I once listened to a goblin-story, which rather impressed me.    A grizzled, weather beaten old mountain hunter, named Bauman who, born and had passed all of his life on the Frontier, told it the story to me. He must have believed what he said, for he could hardly repress a shudder at certain points of the tale; but he was of German ancestry, and in childhood had doubtless been saturated with all kinds of ghost and goblin lore. So that many fearsome superstitions were latent in his mind; besides, he knew well the stories told by the Indian medicine men in their winter camps, of the snow-walkers, and the specters, [spirits, ghosts & apparitions] the formless evil beings that haunt the forest depths, and dog and waylay the lonely wanderer who after nightfall passes through the regions where they lurk. It may be that when overcome by the horror of the fate that befell his friend, and when oppressed by the awful dread of the unknown, he grew to attribute, both at the time and still more in remembrance, weird and elfin traits to what was merely some abnormally wicked and cunning wild beast; but whether this was so or not, no man can say.    When the event occurred, Bauman was still a young man, and was trapping with a partner among the mountains dividing the forks of the Salmon from the head of Wisdom River. Not having had much luck, he and his partner determined to go up into a particularly wild and lonely pass through which ran a small stream said to contain many beavers. The pass had an evil reputation because the year before a solitary hunter who had wandered into it was slain, seemingly by a wild beast, the half eaten remains being afterwards found by some mining prospectors who had passed his camp only the night before.    The memory of this event, however, weighted very lightly with the two trappers, who were as adventurous and hardy as others of their kind. They took their two lean mountain ponies to the foot of the pass where they left them in an open beaver meadow, the rocky timber-clad ground being from there onward impracticable for horses. They then struck out on foot through the vast, gloomy forest, and in about four hours reached a little open glade where they concluded to camp, as signs of game were plenty.    There was still an hour or two of daylight left, and after building a brush lean-to and throwing down and opening their packs, they started upstream. The country was very dense and hard to travel through, as there was much down timber, although here and there the somber woodland was broken by small glades of mountain grass. At dusk they again reached camp. The glade in which it was pitched was not many yards wide, the tall, close-set pines and firs rising round it like a wall. On one side was a little stream, beyond which rose the steep mountains slope, covered with the unbroken growth of evergreen forest.    They were surprised to find that during their absence something, apparently a bear, had visited camp, and had rummaged about among their things, scattering the contents of their packs, and in sheer wantonness destroying their lean-to. The footprints of the beast were quite plain, but at first they paid no particular heed to them, busying themselves with rebuilding the lean-to, laying out their beds and stores and lighting the fire.    While Bauman was making ready supper, it being already dark, his companion began to examine the tracks more closely, and soon took a brand from the fire to follow them up, where the intruder had walked along a game trail after leaving the camp. When the brand flickered out, he returned and took another, repeating his inspection of the footprints very closely. Coming back to the fire, he stood by it a minute or two, peering out into the darkness, and suddenly remarked, "Bauman, that bear has been walking on two legs."    Bauman laughed at this, but his partner insisted that he was right, and upon again examining the tracks with a torch, they certainly did seem to be made by but two paws or feet. However, it was too dark to make sure. After discussing whether the footprints could possibly be those of a human being, and coming to the conclusion that they could not be, the two men rolled up in their blankets, and went to sleep under the lean-to. At midnight Bauman was awakened by some noise, and sat up in his blankets. As he did so his nostrils were struck by a strong, wild-beast odor, and he caught the loom of a great body in the darkness at the mouth of the lean-to. Grasping his rifle, he fired at the vague, threatening shadow, but must have missed, for immediately afterwards he heard the smashing of the under wood as the thing, whatever it was, rushed off into the impenetrable blackness of the forest and the night.    After this the two men slept but little, sitting up by the rekindled fire, but they heard nothing more. In the morning they started out to look at the few traps they had set the previous evening and put out new ones. By an unspoken agreement they kept together all day, and returned to camp towards evening. On nearing it they saw, hardly to their astonishment that the lean-to had again been torn down. The visitor of the preceding day had returned, and in wanton malice had tossed about their camp kit and bedding, and destroyed the shanty. The ground was marked up by its tracks, and on leaving the camp it had gone along the soft earth by the brook. The footprints were as plain as if on snow, and, after a careful scrutiny of the trail, it certainly did seem as if, whatever the thing was, it had walked off on but two legs.    The men, thoroughly uneasy, gathered a great heap of dead logs and kept up a roaring fire throughout the night, one or the other sitting on guard most of the time. About midnight the thing came down through the forest opposite, across the brook, and stayed there on the hillside for nearly an hour. They could hear the branches crackle as it moved about, and several times it uttered a harsh, grating, long-drawn moan, a peculiarly sinister sound. Yet it did not venture near the fire. In the morning the two trappers, after discussing the strange events of the last 36 hours, decided that they would shoulder their packs and leave the valley that afternoon. They were the more ready to do this because in spite of seeing a good deal of game sign they had caught very little fur. However it was necessary first to go along the line of their traps and gather them, and this they started out to do. All the morning they kept together, picking up trap after trap, each one empty. On first leaving camp they had the disagreeable sensation of being followed. In the dense spruce thickets they occasionally heard a branch snap after they had passed; and now and then there were slight rustling noises among the small pines to one side of them.    At noon they were back within a couple of miles of camp. In the high, bright sunlight their fears seemed absurd to the two armed men, accustomed as they were, through long years of lonely wandering in the wilderness, to face every kind of danger from man, brute or element. There were still three beaver traps to collect from a little pond in a wide ravine near by. Bauman volunteered to gather these and bring them in, while his companion went ahead to camp and made ready the packs.    On reaching the pond Bauman found three beavers in the traps, one of which had been pulled loose and carried into a beaver house. He took several hours in securing and preparing the beaver, and when he started homewards he marked, with some uneasiness, how low the sun was getting. As he hurried toward camp, under the tall trees, the silence and desolation of the forest weighted on him. His feet made no sound on the pine needles and the slanting sunrays, striking through among the straight trunks, made a gray twilight in which objects at a distance glimmered indistinctly. There was nothing to break the gloomy stillness which, when there is no breeze, always broods over these somber primeval forests. At last he came to the edge of the little glade where the camp lay and shouted as he approached it, but got no answer. The campfire had gone out, though the thin blue smoke was still curling upwards.    Near it lay the packs wrapped and arranged. At first Bauman could see nobody; nor did he receive an answer to his call. Stepping forward he again shouted, and as he did so his eye fell on the body of his friend, stretched beside the trunk of a great fallen spruce. Rushing towards it the horrified trapper found that the body was still warm, but that the neck was broken, while there were four great fang marks in the throat. The footprints of the unknown beast-creature, printed deep in the soft soil, told the whole story. The unfortunate man, having finished his packing, had sat down on the spruce log with his face to the fire, and his back to the dense woods, to wait for his companion. While thus waiting, his monstrous assailant, which must have been lurking in the woods, waiting for a chance to catch one of the adventurers unprepared, came silently up from behind, walking with long noiseless steps and seemingly still on two legs. Evidently unheard, it reached the man, and broke his neck by wrenching his head back with its fore paws, while it buried its teeth in his throat. It had not eaten the body, but apparently had romped and gamboled around it in uncouth, ferocious glee, occasionally rolling over and over it; and had then fled back into the soundless depths of the woods.    Bauman, utterly unnerved and believing that the creature with which he had to deal was something either half human or half devil, some great goblin-beast, abandoned everything but his rifle and struck off at speed down the pass, not halting until he reached the beaver meadows where the hobbled ponies were still grazing. Mounting, he rode onwards through the night, until beyond reach of pursuit."

Quoted: i do have one pic that is special..but due to everything that is negative that could come from it..we chose never to show others.. one time i thought about auctioning off a portfolio..and a video..i have a video that is pretty cool..and about 200 hours of audio tapes with vocals..

Muddy, I don't know you but up until this sentence you sound credible.

True or not, do you have any, I mean any idea how bad "we chose never to show it to others" reeks to the heavens of pure bullshit?

What negative could come from showing a photo?  What positive could come from having a photo, not showing it, then discussing how earth shattering it would be if you did show it?

Quoted: What is the deal with that, there are people in here posting about the behavior of a creature that does not exist.

How can you say for sure that Bigfoot doesn't exist?

It's certainly not impossible that a large, undiscovered, highly-intelligent primate inhabits remote locations all over the world.

Just last week scientists discovered a brand new species of giant ape living in the jungles of Central Africa.

We don't know everything about the world.  To say for sure that something does not exist is even more foolish than blindly believing that something DOES exist.

Quoted: We don't know everything about the world.  To say for sure that something does not exist is even more foolish than blindly believing that something DOES exist.

Very well put!!!!!!!
Someone else put it another way:

It could be possible if not plausible that Bigfoot exists on the North American continent.

There is too much and too long a history of anecdotal evidence as well as disputed photographs not to have some merit to the argument that Bigfoot exists.

If someone does the ARFCOM Bigfoot T-shirt, I want one.

And, did anyone else watch Harry and the Hendersons on HBO yesterday
afternoon and think about this thread. I did.

Quoted: If someone does the ARFCOM Bigfoot T-shirt, I want one. And, did anyone else watch Harry and the Hendersons on HBO yesterday afternoon and think about this thread. I did.

ME TOO
I have seen Harry and the Henderson twice since the thread started and now my wife keeps get'n on me about this thread.

Did I mention her feet are big....she is so gonna kick my ass now.

YEAH, i was dozing on the couch and heard HER walking thru giggling.
Wake up, look at tv, Henderson is trying to pull Harry up on top of the
car.  Funny.

Anyway, I said something to a neighbor about this last weekend, kidding
about something.  And he says, "Oh yeah, some DEMCO lineworkers
reported one ran across *classified* Road last month or something.  
He said he saw it online but My internet-search-fu is weak and I can't find
the report.   That's only like ten miles from my house!!    

ps-I will guided tours for nominal fee.
(edit: j/k, not really!  those guys would string me up for sure, if I dragged tourists
up in their hunting leases)

edit-- neato, another pages is belong to ME!  We should have a bigfoot smiley.

Quoted: Quoted: What is the deal with that, there are people in here posting about the behavior of a creature that does not exist.[>:// How can you say for sure that Bigfoot doesn't exist? It's certainly not impossible that a large, undiscovered, highly-intelligent primate inhabits remote locations all over the world. Just last week scientists discovered a brand new species of giant ape living in the jungles of Central Africa. We don't know everything about the world.  To say for sure that something does not exist is even more foolish than blindly believing that something DOES exist.

Anything is possible, only a large primate living on the North American continent, is not probable. What happens in an sparsley populated, under developed, third world country can not be compared to what happens here.

There is no conclusive evidence to suggest such a creature exists. No remains found, (And been proved to be a Sasquatch) none have been successfully captured, and video footage of the supposed beast is always grainy and has poor resolution.

With the countless numbers of people running around with camera phones, don't you think such a creature would have been photographed time and time again?

That's not the case, few videos and photos exist of "Bigfoot" and the vast majority are obvious hoaxes.

It's modern folklore, that's it. Just like my European ancestors believed in werewolves, vampires, and forest spirits. And I think we can all agree those things do not exist.

Now zombies on the other hand....

Don't read threads like this at 3 in the morning. Read all 48 pages, some really great stories. I don't think ANY picture even if it is 100% real or video for that matter will be accepted. There are just too many BS rip off artists and hoaxters out there, and no evidence besides a complete corpse will be accepted, and rightly so.

I am not 100% convinced but I like the stories. Not that I am calling anyone here a liar. But I have to say this is one of the more interesting threads I have ever read.

I certainly see the probablility of a North American primate and can understand the logistical problems bringing one in would entail, and once you enter the greed factor things can easilly go to shit. So the whole things seems plausible/possible.

I would LOVE to see the photos muddydog has, I can understand his reluctance to show them, and even if 100% real I doubt they would be accepted as proof. But I would still love to see them.

And I'd love to hear more stories. The one about the kids where the BF is looking into the windows or making friends with them and trying to lure them away are the freakiest. The "cowman" was scary as hell.

All in all I hope this thread keeps going I just decided to click on it yesterday and I'm hooked! There will always be skeptics and the mystery is most of the attraction in my eyes. I almost hope a body is never recovered, almost, because I like the idea of there is more to learn and we don't know everything out there even in our own country.

And the politics involved in BF and other crypto animals will deter and decent funding and exploration of the subject. Really it will probably be a 10 year old with a .410 that gets one and drags it back on his ATV or something that finally brings one in.

But I hope MD posts some of the good photos! Even if some would call them fakes, at worst it would be very interesting!

Been following the thread to.

Pretty interesting so far.

Anything is not possible. Veronica Lake will not walk into my livingroom wearing a thin sundress and ask for a backrub.

Quoted: Anything is not possible. Veronica Lake will not walk into my livingroom wearing a thin sundress and ask for a backrub.

Captian,

While possible, it's not probable and is illogical.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What is the deal with that, there are people in here posting about the behavior of a creature that does not exist.[>:// How can you say for sure that Bigfoot doesn't exist? It's certainly not impossible that a large, undiscovered, highly-intelligent primate inhabits remote locations all over the world. Just last week scientists discovered a brand new species of giant ape living in the jungles of Central Africa. We don't know everything about the world.  To say for sure that something does not exist is even more foolish than blindly believing that something DOES exist. Anything is possible, only a large primate living on the North American continent, is not probable. What happens in an sparsley populated, under developed, third world country can not be compared to what happens here. There is no conclusive evidence to suggest such a creature exists. No remains found, (And been proved to be a Sasquatch) none have been successfully captured, and video footage of the supposed beast is always grainy and has poor resolution. With the countless numbers of people running around with camera phones, don't you think such a creature would have been photographed time and time again? I don't think these people with camera phones are running around in areas where they would have much of a chance to capture an image of big foot, bears, panthers etc. From what I have read they are generally found in deep wilderness where few people go. And a camera phone picture or video would be REALY poor quality. Maybe if a professional documentary crew were able to capture one on film it woudl be accepted, but there would be little to no funding for such an endevor and the people involved might face quite a bit of critisim in their field. Which is too bad. But most science is politically driven - in that there are lots of internal politics involved and grants are a big deal and there are very few grants available for cryptozoology. That's not the case, few videos and photos exist of "Bigfoot" and the vast majority are obvious hoaxes. I think that the only proof that will ever be accepted is multiple carcases verified independantly of each other. Even the best photography/video would not be considered proof. We are not talking about gorillas but a highly debated creature. If it was really good people would say that it is too good it has to be a fake, and if it is poor they say it is too grainy and is a hoax. So vidoe/pics. are a catch 22. That being said I would LOVE to see some GOOD footage, as I will probably never get to see one in real life. It's modern folklore, that's it. Just like my European ancestors believed in werewolves, vampires, and forest spirits. And I think we can all agree those things do not exist. Some people will never believe that there is a large north american primate even if a corpse was brought back. People deny the moon landing, nazi concentration camps, round earth ect. I'm not a true believer but I think that the possiblility is there. It is like the ufo thing. All you need is ONE to be true. I'm sure that 90+% of the bigfoot stuff is a hoax or missidentification. But that does not disprove it. Ther are many very remote areas of North America that could sustain a small population of large scavenger. Now zombies on the other hand....

Look at images of North America at night, you can see civilization by the lights and there is a whole lot of places where it is dark:

Quoted: Look at images of North America at night, you can see civilization by the lights and there is a whole lot of places where it is dark:

dread-pirate, you made one hell of a point with that picture!

Jeez,

DFW is getting huge...

Quoted: Quoted: Anything is not possible. Veronica Lake will not walk into my livingroom wearing a thin sundress and ask for a backrub.

Captian,

While possible, it's not probable and is illogical.



Oh argh! She's long dead therefore it is not possible you chowder head.

MUDDYDOG,

What's the story on BF and the coyotes?  

I'm still waiting on my latest scare of the evening.  While my wife napped most of Sunday afternoon, she gave me grief over reading this thread.  This also happens to be the time of the month where she would make the best bait.  Can you pick her up in OKC or Tulsa if I buy her a one-way ticket?  LOL, then again I threatened to take her down to Myakka.

Quoted: MUDDYDOG, What's the story on BF and the coyotes?   I'm still waiting on my latest scare of the evening.  While my wife napped most of Sunday afternoon, she gave me grief over reading this thread.  This also happens to be the time of the month where she would make the best bait.  Can you pick her up in OKC or Tulsa if I buy her a one-way ticket?  LOL, then again I threatened to take her down to Myakka.

I'm glad it ain't just me get'n in trouble over this thread.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Look at images of North America at night, you can see civilization by the lights and there is a whole lot of places where it is dark: dread-pirate, you made one hell of a point with that picture! Yup. Alot of people just dont realize how much wide open spaces there are out there.

someone should post a population density map.

Quoted: Anything is not possible. Veronica Lake will not walk into my livingroom wearing a thin sundress and ask for a backrub.

If she does please post pictures

Quoted: Quoted: Anything is not possible. Veronica Lake will not walk into my livingroom wearing a thin sundress and ask for a backrub. If she does please post pictures

10-4

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Look at images of North America at night, you can see civilization by the lights and there is a whole lot of places where it is dark: dread-pirate, you made one hell of a point with that picture! Yup. Alot of people just dont realize how much wide open spaces there are out there. someone should post a population density map.

Here is a population density map:



Here is another one done different:


Here is another one for lights at night, though this is world, I couldn't find the USA one though I do have it on my HD:

So buy looking at where civilization is and where it isn't and correlating that with sightings, it is not hard to believe that most of the possible BF population is in areas where most of the human population is not.

I'm more of a suburb type person, and when I get out in the wilderness it is usually parks with marked trails and such. I don't have the time or equipment or the skills to do more at this present time. I'm not a hunter, don't have much interest in it, you don't get to shoot as much I like IDPA and plinking and target shooting.

So even if guys like me have a cam going 24/7 while out in the woods how likely is it that I will have a sighting? Not likely. How likely is it if guys like me multiplied by 1000's would have a sighting? Still not very likely. We are not going into areas where we would be more likely to see some. And even if we did or were armed and took one down there would be no way to get it back, and any pictures no matter how good or bad would not be accepted as proof and bearly as evidence. (For a person like me going where we do with the gear that we take).

I have also never seen a large cat, bear, gator etc while out in the woods/wilderness either, though I have been in areas that have them. Seen LOTS of dear, a few turkey but no carcasases that were not road kill and if I have seen any bones or such it was a few scattered, never a whole corpse. And the whole carcases I have seen have all been recent deer road kill and dear do very well now there are tons of them around.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Getting off into religious grounds, do they have a soul? Are they a spiritual entity? Does any animal other than a human have a soul?   I can't answer that, I'm not the Creator. We do not actively hunt them as a society on the whole. Do they not hunt us because of our disease ridden bodies? Chimps are known to catch polio, monkeys bring humans diseases....do they avoid hunting and eating human flesh on a daily basis due to survival instincts? No, they don't hunt us, because they don't exist, except in the minds of some. Can you prove they don't? Several people here have said they've personally seen them! Can you prove the Patterson film is a fraud? Proving a negative is fruitless.  I can say that I have a little green person living in my back yard, can you prove that it doesn't exist? The burden of proof is on you the believer.  I don't care who says they have seen one, it is anecdotal evidence at best Oh, BTW, where are the pics of the "monkee nests"  hehee. You wouldn't know what they were if you were looking right at them in the woods. Oh, I see now.  Muddydog said he was going to get you to post some nest pictures, but now one must be a monkee nest expert to discern what they are.   Right..... Got it. Oh, wait.... How can you tell what they are?

Quoted: Oh, wait.... How can you tell what they are?

I'm going to repeat this one more time - The one I saw in the deep woods of SE Oklahoma and didn't recognize at the time was a long collection of broken off cedar branches arranged as a bed. At the time I wondered WTF made that? Bigfoot wasn't even something I'd heard of at the time.
Now I have a good idea it wasn't an elf or fairy!!
Pay attention, son. You might learn something!
As far as refuting a negative - the mass of anecdotal evidence given here by actual witnesses and in many other places would say it's not negative.
The only thing I know that is negative about this issue is your closed mind by saying something can't exist when many others have seen the very thing you say can't exist.
If muddydog does send me the pictures to host, you'll say it doesn't prove anything because there is no "monkey" in the middle of them.

There has been some discussion about not finding a BF corpse.  I work on a large federal reservation, and on one afternoon, I had to euthanize a deer that had been hit by a car.  It was a medium sized mule deer, I believe a two or three point.  The next day I went to check on the corpse.  I expected to see a dead deer with maybe a crow or two hovering around.  There was nothing.  Not a head, not a body, no legs or horns.  You could see where coyotes had spun the deer around, causing circles in the grass, and then some slightly less obvious drag marks into the sagebrush and grass.  Being somewhat of a city type, it was a real eye opener for me.  Granted, a BF would be a larger meal, but based on my observation, there wouldn't be much left after a day or two.  Certainly not a skeleton or anything close to it.

Quoted: Quoted: Oh, wait.... How can you tell what they are? I'm going to repeat this one more time - The one I saw in the deep woods of SE Oklahoma and didn't recognize at the time was a long collection of broken off cedar branches arranged as a bed. At the time I wondered WTF made that? Bigfoot wasn't even something I'd heard of at the time. Now I have a good idea it wasn't an elf or fairy!! Pay attention, son. You might learn something! As far as refuting a negative - the mass of anecdotal evidence given here by actual witnesses and in many other places would say it's not negative. The only thing I know that is negative about this issue is your closed mind by saying something can't exist when many others have seen the very thing you say can't exist. If muddydog does send me the pictures to host, you'll say it doesn't prove anything because there is no "monkey" in the middle of them.

you're a patient man danc46............I think it's time to just ignore the naysayers.  It looks like muddydog got fed up with all of em anyway.

one thing I do find really interesting.  when I go look around these supposed "bigfoot" forums and websites, they all seem the most hostile to people who try to post honest encounters.  they jump them enmass and shout fake and fraud louder than anyone else.

if I caught a sasquatch and took him home, or snapped a perfect photo of one,  those idiots at bigfootforums.com and others like it would never hear from me.

After reading the entirety of this thread, which is the extent of my Bigfoot research I think I can see muddydog's original reluctance to post pictures, and other people who may infact have good video/pictures. Just seeing the hostility here on a short thread is eye opening. I haven't been to BF forums or such. I'm really not THAT interested. I don't blame muddydog for not posting what he has, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't love to see it.

If BF exists - cool - if he doesn't - bummer. I have nothing invested and don't really care either way. I think many people that are convinced they have seen one may be mistaken. But hunters with loads of experience in the woods who know a bear and other game I would be more likely to believe. Hoaxters ruin it all, and you just never know if a person is telling the truth or pulling one over on you, and nobody wants to be the chump at the but of a joke.

My best friend is a prankster and has invested serious time and money into pranks to get a laugh. People like him are out there.

When it comes down to it there have been reputable people that have seen things and pictures people haven't faked. There is certainly the possibility that a unknown primate is out there and is hard for us to find for a variety of reasons. Personaly I like NOT knowing for sure. Some mystery in life is good. If they are out there I am sure at some point in the future we will finaly get a body or better yet a living specimin, or be able to tag one and study them.

All it takes is for 1 of the 1000's of sightings in history to be true and it is. Edison failed how many times when inventing the light bulb? All it took was one working solution.

But I am all for more stories. True or made up they are still entertaining. Nobody will ever be able to prove they exist without multiple carcasses. Even one I think would not be enough. Video or film no matter how good will NEVER be accepted just because of the nature of the cult following and denial of the current scientific comunity. This is not like other animals, there is too much myth and such around them.

Now what I am wondering is if theya re out there, their brains are probably around the same size as a humans, possibly. Would they be self aware /sentient?

I would like to hear muddydog or the others with more direct knowledge to speculate on their level of intelegence and possibly self aware nature. If they are out there it would be very cool to be able to communicate with them, and find out if they prefer the AK or the AR? Personally I think they may favor the AK due to its rugged nature and less need for maintenace. Though maybe they would just prefer a Mosin Nagant instead.

Quoted: if I caught a sasquatch and took him home, or snapped a perfect photo of one,  those idiots at bigfootforums.com and others like it would never hear from me.

You're caught in between "experts" who want to be known as the leading authorities and the "naysayers" when you publicize an encounter, video, or photograph.. The former will deny anything and everything they can't take credit for and the naysayers are denying their "boogieman" fear.
It's just our society. Most of the Nobel Prize winners aren't responsible for the work or discoveries that brings the rewards - they are the administrators who take credit for the work of underlings. They don't want to do the work, they are there to take the glory.
And others do not want their understanding of their "perfect world" destroyed and will scream against anything that challenges their beliefs.
Those two extremes have done a good job to discourage publicizing photos, videos, and encounters where it concerns Bigfoot in our society today.
Obviously muddydog has had enough.

Quoted: I would like to hear muddydog or the others with more direct knowledge to speculate on their level of intelegence and possibly self aware nature. If they are out there it would be very cool to be able to communicate with them....

Between Geary and Watonga, west of Oklahoma City, there have been incidents where a critter in the mid 70s was actually trying to talk to some women. I heard that story from an LEO in that area.
I once asked the curator of apes at the OKC Zoo how he disciplined the gorillas if they got out of hand. He told me he fed them nothing but onions for a month or so and yelled at them a lot from a distance. They are intelligent creatures, they got the idea.
At the University of Oklahoma there was a program teaching chimps sign language in the 70s. I saw one young chimp actually become afraid when the symbol for a dog was flashed at it in sign language. The most famous of those chimps was Washoe, Dr. Lemon was the honcho running the program. People carried on simple conversations with these chimps in sign language all the time.
These critters are surely a whole lot more intelligent than a chimp.