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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:28:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes, John Walsh, YOU should never own one of those guns.
Prick. The gov't. is going to pick us off one by one. Preferably leaving no witnesses. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:39:00 PM EDT
[#2]
they just said on fox news that the guy was a convicted felon and can't own guns anyway. i agree that the batf sucks ass, but i still feel bad for the agents friends & family.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:42:16 PM EDT
[#3]
I don't know if been said already but the LEO that was killed was a Sheriff deputy, not BATF.
I also heard that the suspect was a former LEO and a felon. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:43:00 PM EDT
[#4]
If John Walsh had owned a gun and taken just a modicum of personal responsibilty for his children, his son might not have wound up dead.
Screw him, his kid and any other person trying to disarm me or mine. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:43:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Hmmmmmmmm,
Keep hearing on this site "when police police their own....." (and apparently they did, in this case, since he used to be a cop and was convicted of felonies...) Well looks like a lot of gun owners don't believe in the same stuff. After all a lot of YOU were in favor of a convicted felon, illegally possesing weapons, unlwafully ressisting a search warrant, shooting 2 people, and killing one. Hmmmmmm, maybe it is behavior like this from responsible gun owners that makes soccer moms and other idiot think that no one should own guns. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:43:48 PM EDT
[#6]
It was reported on 2 different networks that he was an ARCADIA POLICE OFFICER.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:50:13 PM EDT
[#7]
I saw dumbass Walsh on Fox saying the same thing...
[img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20010831/capt.999292751warrant_shootout_la105.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:51:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Yeah I got it now used to be, like someone who is kicked out of the USMC used to be a Marine. Used to be as in couldn't cut it. Used to be as in decided burglary was more fun. He wasn't currently an officer. He also signed a yearbook in high school does that make him a journalist?
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:52:36 PM EDT
[#9]
I think I'll reserve judgment until I find out more about what this guy's felony was. If it was armed robery and in fact he was impersonating a U.S. Marshal, I'm afraid that we all might be jumping to soon to support this guys actions. How many "Mall Ninja's" are really out there?
I personally would like to know what was in the search warrant which is currently under lock and key at some court house in CA. Also, considering the fire started on the second floor and the fact the house is burned to the ground, I think it'll be hard to dertermine how the fire started. If they suddenly bulldoze the place I'll get suspicious. [img]http://www.ncsg.org/topohat-small.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:53:05 PM EDT
[#10]
"The ATF is sennding an investigative team from Washington D.C.". A comforting thought. Why dont they PUT THE DAMN FIRE OUT!!
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:54:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Yeah, look at that picture. It doesn't look like the fire dept. is trying very hard to put the fire out.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:55:56 PM EDT
[#12]
DVDtracker, it is much easier to bulldoze tiny little bits of burnt evidence than big unburnt ones.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:56:11 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: It was reported on 2 different networks that he was an ARCADIA POLICE OFFICER. Which networks? Any links? This ought to be real interesting! |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:57:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: He also signed a yearbook in high school does that make him a journalist? Actually in today's media it does mike |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 1:58:03 PM EDT
[#15]
If he was a convicted felony burglar in possession of firearms, he needed to be taken into custody.
Like I said earlier, I'm reserving further comment on him until the facts are in. It's just that law enforcement is already lying about the CS insertion not being able to ignite the fire when I've seen the tape and the flash, and I have my concerns about them not allowing water to be put on the fire, even though the snorkels in use could have easily been trained on it. The cop didn't need to die, but neither did Beck. Semper Fi! Ken Little |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:02:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Yeah, look at that picture. It doesn't look like the fire dept. is trying very hard to put the fire out. Fire fighters fight fires, hence the name. They do not duck bullets. If skip wanted the fire put out he needed to stop shooting and clear out, so the FD could do their jobs. Fire fighter lives are worth more than a house. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:03:41 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: He also signed a yearbook in high school does that make him a journalist? Actually in today's media it does mike ok, [bounce] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:05:46 PM EDT
[#18]
he was telling his neighbors he was a US Marshal?
big deal he was a liar, now if he had been trying to arrest people using a fake badge, or entering homes using a fake badge I could understand wanting to question/arrest him. But for BSing with his neighbors? |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:06:04 PM EDT
[#19]
After having read ALL the posts so far to this thread I must say, I feel sad and ashamed for some of you.
[i][b]"If you're not part of the Solution, you're part of the problem"[/i][/b] sgb |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:06:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: If he was a convicted felony burglar in possession of firearms, he needed to be taken into custody. Like I said earlier, I'm reserving further comment on him until the facts are in. It's just that law enforcement is already lying about the CS insertion not being able to ignite the fire when I've seen the tape and the flash, and I have my concerns about them not allowing water to be put on the fire, even though the snorkels in use could have easily been trained on it. The cop didn't need to die, but neither did Beck. Semper Fi! Ken Little Small Point: The Deputy was trying to lawfully serve a search warrant, and was murdered. Beck chose to stay in a burning building. Beck is responsible for the choices he makes. FYI: local news here just said that the house was set on fire by the tear gas insertion. It also said that Beck was still firing after the house was on fire. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:07:38 PM EDT
[#21]
[b]Self defense is a basic human right![/b]
I don't care if he was a former felon. He served his time and paid the price. Unless the Gov't GUARANTEED his safety, he has a right to protect himself. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:08:58 PM EDT
[#22]
SGB, sad *and* ashamed. That is a heavy load for one man to bear.
As to OlMergerys comments, there will always be room at the back os some brownshirts ass for you to lick. Don't worry, you won't run out of anus for quite some time. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:13:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: [b]Self defense is a basic human right![/b] I don't care if he was a former felon. He served his time and paid the price. Unless the Gov't GUARANTEED his safety, he has a right to protect himself. Who started shooting?? 1) the police showed up and wanted to test their new bird-man sights, so they opened up on his house. They quickly made up a false warrant and made up a story about the guy in the house. 2) The felon, that illegally had weapons, saw the cops rolling up, and decided that since they would gather evidence of his crimes if the got into his house, he would stop them by committing even more crimes. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:13:34 PM EDT
[#24]
the video i saw showed the cops standing around in the street while the house burned. Either he wasn't shooting or they were idiots.
mike |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:14:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: I'm not sure about the reason for the investigation, but if it is because he was impersonating a LEO, you just have to wonder what he was trying to gain. Serial rapists seem to like to impersonate authority figures, think about it. Ya know, I fully expected some LEO involved to start calling him a rapist, child molester, etc, but to hear it hinted at from a LEO on here is very interesting. And they talk about us jumping to conclusions[rolleyes] Is that just a standard innuendo that you hint at the possibility of anytime someone challenges your authority? Seems to be widespread from what I have seen. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:15:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: SGB, sad *and* ashamed. That is a heavy load for one man to bear. As to OlMergerys comments, there will always be room at the back os some brownshirts ass for you to lick. Don't worry, you won't run out of anus for quite some time. thank you, everytime you post more anus show up. And I won't by licking any of it. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:17:08 PM EDT
[#27]
M4gery: I submit that using a fire (which I do NOT believe was intentional) to flush out a suspect is inappropriate, and allowing it to burn to act in your favor is murder.
The firemen would be in no more danger putting water on THAT house than they would on the others, as the arcs from their positions would have intersected ON that house. You, of course, are allowed your opinion, but do not for one second ASSume that I condone shooting a law enforcement officer in the lawful conduct of their duty. BUT, I also do not condone murder on the behalf of law enforcement. Semper Fi! Ken Little |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:19:17 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: I'm not sure about the reason for the investigation, but if it is because he was impersonating a LEO, you just have to wonder what he was trying to gain. Serial rapists seem to like to impersonate authority figures, think about it. Ya know, I fully expected some LEO involved to start calling him a rapist, child molester, etc, but to hear it hinted at from a LEO on here is very interesting. And they talk about us jumping to conclusions[rolleyes] Is that just a standard innuendo that you hint at the possibility of anytime someone challenges your authority? Seems to be widespread from what I have seen. No just theorizing, when someone "pretends" to be a cop there is alomost always something they hope to gain by the impersonation. And anyone who would pretend to be a LEO has a screw loose, and some of you here would say anyone who is a LEO has a screw loose......... |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:24:56 PM EDT
[#29]
This is the latest I've heard from the local news: When the ATF and the two deputies came to serve the warrant they first called the guy and ask him to come out. He obiously didn't come out, but his girlfriend did. Later they attempted entry and then he started shooting.
About the fire I think at first they used the machanically water hose to take out the fire on his house, then just used them to protect the houses on the side. It sucks how they let it burn. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:25:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Maybe, but you seemed awful eager to throw out the "rapist" thing. Most folks who claim to be what they aren't are just ashemed of not being anything, like all the fake veterans around.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:27:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: M4gery: I submit that using a fire (which I do NOT believe was intentional) to flush out a suspect is inappropriate, and allowing it to burn to act in your favor is murder. The firemen would be in no more danger putting water on THAT house than they would on the others, as the arcs from their positions would have intersected ON that house. You, of course, are allowed your opinion, but do not for one second ASSume that I condone shooting a law enforcement officer in the lawful conduct of their duty. BUT, I also do not condone murder on the behalf of law enforcement. Semper Fi! Ken Little Well I know that when I was trained as an EMS specialist, the rule was no one goes in until the situation is safe. Fire Depts have the same rule. FF's are more than willing to risk there lives fighting fires, rescuing people of cliffs, or in a variety of other ways. They are not ready to go into a situation that they will be attacked by another person. The fire fighters might have been more willing to protect the property of Beck's innicnet neighbors. Of course I don't think the roof spraying would stop a fire that was already going inside a house. Beck had a choice, HIS actions resulted in the PD inserting gas, too bad they didn't invest in the non-flaming types. He had the ablity to leave the house but chose to stay. He is responsible for his actions. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:32:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Beck had a choice, HIS actions resulted in the PD inserting gas, too bad they didn't invest in the non-flaming types. He had the ablity to leave the house but chose to stay. He is responsible for his actions So based on what you said here I can safely assume you think those who died in the fire at Waco also had it coming? |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:34:33 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Maybe, but you seemed awful eager to throw out the "rapist" thing. Most folks who claim to be what they aren't are just ashemed of not being anything, like all the fake veterans around. And how do we feel about fake veterans?? They do it for the recognition they don't deserve. My experience is about half the police imposters have sexual motives. The others have diverse motives, they think its cool, or they want the blue lights so they can speed..... But it is one of those little red flags that means something else serious may be going on. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:38:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Well I know that when I was trained as an EMS specialist, the rule was no one goes in until the situation is safe. Fire Depts have the same rule. FF's are more than willing to risk there lives fighting fires, rescuing people of cliffs, or in a variety of other ways. They are not ready to go into a situation that they will be attacked by another person. The fire fighters might have been more willing to protect the property of Beck's innicnet neighbors. Of course I don't think the roof spraying would stop a fire that, was already going inside a house. Beck had a choice, HIS actions resulted in the PD inserting gas, too bad they didn't invest in the non-flaming types. He had the ablity to leave the house but chose to stay. He is responsible for his actions. Yes, but they didn't need to go in to put out the fire. Nobody believes that firefighters must run into a burning building to save a suspected gunman, but what about simply hosing down the place? If the PD burns down my house to get me out you damn well better believe PD, NOT I, is at fault. Don't think the hosing could have stopped the fire? If the FD uses that as an excuse it'll rank up there with "I didn't believe the gas was flammable." Just because they don't think it'll help doesn't mean they shouldn't try. It's not like they had better things to do. You don't need to constatly saturate a house to keep it from catching fire. You wanna tell me they couldn't have spared some hose time for the gunman's house? After all, he was still in there, and from the news reports, it appears the other houses were evacuated. Letting it burn because you'd rather save somebody's house than somebody's life(suspect or not) is still murder. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:43:32 PM EDT
[#35]
One must be carefull when fighting monsters to not become monsters themselves.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:44:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Just a question here.
How many of you, if the government told you to, would give up your guns? Yet you expect him to if they say he shouldn't own them, and say he is evil. Becuase he is a convicted felon(maybe). The vast majority of us on here have commited felonies, and never got caught. Could be any of a number of things, you may not even have known you were doing it. You may have been given a firearm by a relative and taken it home, but crossed state lines... felon. You may have done any of a number of things and not even known it. LEO's, ever tweak the facts on a report just a little bit? (not looking for an answer here, just asking you to consider things). Anyone here ever look the other way when someone had an illegally configured post ban? How many here have them? How many have just slipped that pre-ban upper on yourt post ban in your home just to see what it looked like? Ever withdrawn money in under $10,000 increments to avoid government paperwork having to prove where you got it? Ever possess a restricted magazine? Ever buy an AR to discover it had M-16 parts? Ever drive super fast on a deserted road? Ever transport a firearm in a way not allowed, or coceal one without a permit? I could go on and on listing things that could be felonies (in some states all these are) and hit something that every single one of us on here has done. Anyone who says they have NEVER commited a felony isn't thinking hard enough or just doesn't realise as they are not familiar with all the laws(nobody can be), somewhere they have. Would you give up your right to self defense because the government said you had to? Each and every one of us is in the potential situation of being a "convicted felon". If you were, would you give up your right to self defense willingly? If not, think before critizing this guy for being a felon in possesion. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:50:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: Don't think the hosing could have stopped the fire? If the FD uses that as an excuse it'll rank up there with "I didn't believe the gas was flammable. Having two uncles that are firefighters, Just washing down a house from the outside will not put out the fire. Just look at the footage they had on the networks. The house was more or less burned to the ground and they were spraying the area were the fire was still burning. It didn't just go out, it took awhile for it to die out. If they had been able to go right up to the fire, they could have put it out in a matter of minutes. If I was a firefighter and there was some guy in there firing at people, I wouldn't be willing to go rushing in to put out the fire, whether the PD said I could or not. Why should the FD try to save someone's life that is trying to take theirs? The FD isn't to blame here. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:50:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Fire fighters fight fires, hence the name. They do not duck bullets. If skip wanted the fire put out he needed to stop shooting and clear out, so the FD could do their jobs. Fire fighter lives are worth more than a house. Let me clarify. In that picture, the fire fighters are in cover behind a house across the street. The nozzle on top of the ladder isn't doing a very jood job of putting water on the fire. I agree with you. They should not be ducking bullets for a living. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:50:52 PM EDT
[#39]
An established fire inside a structure will not stopped by exterior fire fighting in most cases. It might slow the fire but probably won't stop it.
If you kill a anyone and the cops lob tear gas in, yes it is YOUR fault. If you hadn't participated in that felonious act there would have been no need/justification to use tear gas. Absent that felonious act there would have been no fire. If you are inside a burning structure, uninjured, with an escape route, and you decide to stay there, it is YOUR fault for what happens. It is not the fire depts. fault for not putting out the burning house that you are using as a base of operation to shoot people. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:53:07 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Just a question here. How many of you, if the government told you to, would give up your guns? Not I. They cay pry it from my cold (ya know the rest). Too bad we don't have some form of national militia that can respond to these infringements of our rights. ATF would shit if they got surrounded by a well armed militia and burned alive. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 2:59:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Here's your "He was a police officer" link:
[url]www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,33424,00.html[/url] Excerpt: [b]"Beck had two prior convictions, for burglary and impersonating a police officer, William Woolsey of the U.S. Marshals Service said. Beck worked for the Arcadia Police Department for one year, but was fired because he didn't pass probation, Chief Dave Hinig said."[/b] Sorry, I can't support this guy if these facts are to be true. [img]http://www.ncsg.org/topohat-small.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 3:07:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: If you kill a anyone and the cops lob tear gas in, yes it is YOUR fault. I believe what you have attempted to say here is that you fully supported the government burning people alive at Waco. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 3:09:32 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: If you kill a anyone and the cops lob tear gas in, yes it is YOUR fault. If you hadn't participated in that felonious act there would have been no need/justification to use tear gas. Yet, if you break into my house, kill my family, and subsequently get your head removed by my 12 gauge in the hallway, its NOT your fault? (can you say, 'wrongful death' mr. scumbag PI attorney) Better yet, if you rob me blind and then trip on some loose carpet in the hallway as you are leaving, its NOT your fault? (cue mr. PI attorney again) Not trying to start a fight. I just wish this kind of common sense would actually exist in the world... [rolleyes] |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 3:26:53 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: If you kill a anyone and the cops lob tear gas in, yes it is YOUR fault. If you hadn't participated in that felonious act there would have been no need/justification to use tear gas. Yet, if you break into my house, kill my family, and subsequently get your head removed by my 12 gauge in the hallway, its NOT your fault? (can you say, 'wrongful death' mr. scumbag PI attorney) No that would be the criminals fault, like I pointed out. Better yet, if you rob me blind and then trip on some loose carpet in the hallway as you are leaving, its NOT your fault? (cue mr. PI attorney again) Again that would be the criminals fault, he is responsible for his actions. Not trying to start a fight. I just wish this kind of common sense would actually exist in the world... [rolleyes] I'm trying to get it there too.....If you are injured while involved in a criminal act, YOU the criminal are responsible for your actions and any harms that could reasonable occur as a result of your actions. So if you and a friend decide to commit an armed robbery. You get some money and start to leave the victim struggles with your co-criminal and is killed. You are just as responsible for the murder. Homicide is a forseeable consequence of armed robbery. Beck decided to commit a string of crimes, he is responsible for his actions and the consequences that flowed from them. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 3:27:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: If you kill a anyone and the cops lob tear gas in, yes it is YOUR fault. If you hadn't participated in that felonious act there would have been no need/justification to use tear gas. So if you accidentally mistaken me as a criminal and shot me, and I ended up shooting and killing you, its my fault for defending myself from a man above the law? |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 3:31:33 PM EDT
[#46]
???? I'm responsible for my acts, I am also not above the law.
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Posted: 8/31/2001 3:32:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: I'm trying to get it there too.....If you are injured while involved in a criminal act, YOU the criminal are responsible for your actions and any harms that could reasonable occur as a result of your actions. Beck decided to commit a string of crimes, he is responsible for his actions and the consequences that flowed from them. So if a LEO (not all of them, just the ASSHOLES that are all over) wants to put the law into his own hands and kills someone for the hell of it, he should be jailed right? How many times do you see that type of shit happening? If it was a citizen, hell yes we'll go to jail. If it was a "LEO" they'll be working the next day like nothing ever happened. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 3:34:48 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Beck decided to commit a string of crimes, he is responsible for his actions and the consequences that flowed from them. Consequences up to and including burning him to death by using flammable tear gas according to you. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 3:37:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Quoted: I'm trying to get it there too.....If you are injured while involved in a criminal act, YOU the criminal are responsible for your actions and any harms that could reasonable occur as a result of your actions. Beck decided to commit a string of crimes, he is responsible for his actions and the consequences that flowed from them. So if a LEO (not all of them, just the ASSHOLES that are all over) wants to put the law into his own hands and kills someone for the hell of it, he should be jailed right? How many times do you see that type of shit happening? If it was a citizen, hell yes we'll go to jail. If it was a "LEO" they'll be working the next day like nothing ever happened. Yes Murder is Murder no matter who does it. Self defense is also a justification to use deadly force. The difference often is that LEO's may pursue criminal's but most places say that citizens must disengage if they can do so safely. |
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Posted: 8/31/2001 3:47:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: Quoted: Beck decided to commit a string of crimes, he is responsible for his actions and the consequences that flowed from them. Consequences up to and including burning him to death by using flammable tear gas according to you. No, Beck made a choice to KILL another human being, who had the gall to call him and tell Beck they had a search warrant they needed to serve. Beck decided to disregard that legal process and shoot other people. This was not a the cops bashing in doors. This was Beck deciding to kill someone. The police apparently tried to gas him out. They instead caught the house on fire. READ THIS CAREFULLY, BECK not only refused to come out, he kept shooting from within the house. BECK's actions prevented the fire dept from extinguishing the blaze. BECK decided to stay in a burning house. BECK is responsible for his actions. The police didn't block the entrances to the house. They stayed in place to apprehend BECK when he came out. BECK was too much Of a COWARD to accept the consequences of his actions. |
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