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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:35:54 AM EDT
[#1]
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That should work great. I used an ACOG for part of an event, worked well. Not sure how a red dot sight would do, I've never had much luck shooting precisely with those myself - anything in the ACOG, 1-4, or even 3-9 hunting scope realm should be fine. If you don't have anything like that look at the Primary Arms 1-4/6 models or the 1-3 Weaver. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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so I just figured out that I can't really use Tech-Sites on my Tac-Sol 10/22 barrel, so what optic would those that have attended suggest using? would something like the Primary Arms 1-6X work? That should work great. I used an ACOG for part of an event, worked well. Not sure how a red dot sight would do, I've never had much luck shooting precisely with those myself - anything in the ACOG, 1-4, or even 3-9 hunting scope realm should be fine. If you don't have anything like that look at the Primary Arms 1-4/6 models or the 1-3 Weaver. Agree with everything 53vortec said. The only optics that are less than ideal are the mega high magnification (more than 10 or 12X) just because like any high power scope it's easy to lose your "bearings". If using an optic make sure you have the eye relief set so that it's useable for prone. Lots of folks have the optic pushed back for bench shooting and then it's almost unuseable in prone when their head is inches further forward. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:39:29 AM EDT
[#2]
I guess if I showed up with a CZ452 with iron sights and 5rd magazines I would be SOL...
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:29:18 AM EDT
[#3]
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I guess if I showed up with a CZ452 with iron sights and 5rd magazines I would be SOL... If you could get 10 rounders you might be fine. I was half thinking about running it with my Marlin XT-22, but I have an optic on there and a handful of 10 round mags 
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:51:05 AM EDT
[#4]
I was planning on using a scope for the next Appleseed I attend. However, I can't push the scope any further forward to have a decent sight picture when I am shooting prone. I am looking at a pin hole. I have a rail on top of the rifle and the mount is in the furthest rails. The scope is all the way forward to the adjustment turrets. FWIW: the scope is a Leupold rimfire scope.
As far as shooting a bolt action with five round mags...........I don't know if there are specific rules about how you load your magazines. The course of fire for stages 2 & 3 says you load 8 and 2. You shoot the 2 and then change mags. However I am guessing that the exact quantity isn't as important as the fact that you are doing a magazine change. After I found out that I can't really use my scoped 10/22 (see above), I decided to shoot my next Appleseed with a Mossberg M44 bolt gun that I got from the CMP. It has an eight round magazine. However, when I have loaded eight rounds in it, the first round doesn't want to feed. So I have been practicing loading one mag with six and the other with four. That is going to have two work. In my experience, Appleseed seems to be very friendly to whatever you bring: they will try to make it work. So I am not really worried about the magazine issue. I did some internet searching and found some 15 round mags for the M44 and I ordered them. Hopefully the shipping will be prompt. That would enable me to not have to do a mag change at all on stages 1 and 4 and also allow me to load 8 & 2 on stages 2&3; but if I don't get them, I am going to use what I have. No big deal. Now showing up with one five round mag would be an issue. It isn't like they wouldn't let you shoot; but it would not allow you to do the normal course of fire. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:58:12 AM EDT
[#5]
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If you could get 10 rounders you might be fine. I was half thinking about running it with my Marlin XT-22, but I have an optic on there and a handful of 10 round mags Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I guess if I showed up with a CZ452 with iron sights and 5rd magazines I would be SOL... If you could get 10 rounders you might be fine. I was half thinking about running it with my Marlin XT-22, but I have an optic on there and a handful of 10 round mags Thought about that too, those are hard to find. Do you think I would be at a disadvantage using a bolt-action instead of semiauto? I can't justify buying one now, for financial reasons. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 12:02:34 PM EDT
[#6]
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Thought about that too, those are hard to find. Do you think I would be at a disadvantage using a bolt-action instead of semiauto? I can't justify buying one now, for financial reasons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I guess if I showed up with a CZ452 with iron sights and 5rd magazines I would be SOL... If you could get 10 rounders you might be fine. I was half thinking about running it with my Marlin XT-22, but I have an optic on there and a handful of 10 round mags Thought about that too, those are hard to find. Do you think I would be at a disadvantage using a bolt-action instead of semiauto? I can't justify buying one now, for financial reasons. You will be at a slight disadvantage only because the stages are timed. You don't be able to shoot AS fast as a semi-auto. However there is no reason why you can't do it with a bolt gun. I fully intend to. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 12:03:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess if I showed up with a CZ452 with iron sights and 5rd magazines I would be SOL... But if it's between going with a bolt and not going at all, definitely GO!
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Posted: 7/25/2014 12:39:23 PM EDT
[#8]
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I guess if I showed up with a CZ452 with iron sights and 5rd magazines I would be SOL... A guy next to me on the firing line was shooting some type of falling block single shot .22. Run what you brung, they'll gladly work with you. The one thing was kind of funny was how badly a shooter with an M1907 leather sling tripped them up, considering it's such a sling-centric event. Guess Fred doesn't sell those. 
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Posted: 7/25/2014 6:01:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was planning on using a scope for the next Appleseed I attend. However, I can't push the scope any further forward to have a decent sight picture when I am shooting prone. I am looking at a pin hole. I have a rail on top of the rifle and the mount is in the furthest rails. The scope is all the way forward to the adjustment turrets. FWIW: the scope is a Leupold rimfire scope. As far as shooting a bolt action with five round mags...........I don't know if there are specific rules about how you load your magazines. The course of fire for stages 2 & 3 says you load 8 and 2. You shoot the 2 and then change mags. However I am guessing that the exact quantity isn't as important as the fact that you are doing a magazine change. After I found out that I can't really use my scoped 10/22 (see above), I decided to shoot my next Appleseed with a Mossberg M44 bolt gun that I got from the CMP. It has an eight round magazine. However, when I have loaded eight rounds in it, the first round doesn't want to feed. So I have been practicing loading one mag with six and the other with four. That is going to have two work. In my experience, Appleseed seems to be very friendly to whatever you bring: they will try to make it work. So I am not really worried about the magazine issue. I did some internet searching and found some 15 round mags for the M44 and I ordered them. Hopefully the shipping will be prompt. That would enable me to not have to do a mag change at all on stages 1 and 4 and also allow me to load 8 & 2 on stages 2&3; but if I don't get them, I am going to use what I have. No big deal. Now showing up with one five round mag would be an issue. It isn't like they wouldn't let you shoot; but it would not allow you to do the normal course of fire. The rounds in mags is important, because it is done to force a mag change while shooting at a target, before you transition to the next target. Chances are they will let you load differently if you are having issues getting your gun to work with the round count, but you probably won't get a rifleman patch even if you do shoot 210+. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 7:15:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Did a Kidd trigger job on the 10/22 tonight, so now it's time to figure out an optic!
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Posted: 7/25/2014 8:58:01 PM EDT
[#11]
I did the Long Rage Appleseed at Camp Atterbury JMTC with my GF last year, it was a memorable experience.
Centerfire rifles out to 400, 500 yards. 
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Posted: 7/26/2014 2:00:13 PM EDT
[#12]
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I guess if I showed up with a CZ452 with iron sights and 5rd magazines I would be SOL... No, the Appleseed folks will work with you on this; I have seen them do so, within pretty broad limits. The point to the mag change is to ensure you, as a potential Rifleman, have the ability to change out mags, keep going, and make all the shots count. Explain this at the beginning, and they will set things up so that you will be OK. As far as the sights go, that depends on you, your eyes, and your level of expertise with your particular rifle. If you are past your '30s, using iron sights becomes increasingly problematic, even if using better sights than the OEM Ruger .22 RF rifle iron sights. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 2:08:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was planning on using a scope for the next Appleseed I attend. However, I can't push the scope any further forward to have a decent sight picture when I am shooting prone. I am looking at a pin hole. I have a rail on top of the rifle and the mount is in the furthest rails. The scope is all the way forward to the adjustment turrets. FWIW: the scope is a Leupold rimfire scope. As far as shooting a bolt action with five round mags...........I don't know if there are specific rules about how you load your magazines. The course of fire for stages 2 & 3 says you load 8 and 2. You shoot the 2 and then change mags. However I am guessing that the exact quantity isn't as important as the fact that you are doing a magazine change. After I found out that I can't really use my scoped 10/22 (see above), I decided to shoot my next Appleseed with a Mossberg M44 bolt gun that I got from the CMP. It has an eight round magazine. However, when I have loaded eight rounds in it, the first round doesn't want to feed. So I have been practicing loading one mag with six and the other with four. That is going to have two work. In my experience, Appleseed seems to be very friendly to whatever you bring: they will try to make it work. So I am not really worried about the magazine issue. I did some internet searching and found some 15 round mags for the M44 and I ordered them. Hopefully the shipping will be prompt. That would enable me to not have to do a mag change at all on stages 1 and 4 and also allow me to load 8 & 2 on stages 2&3; but if I don't get them, I am going to use what I have. No big deal. Now showing up with one five round mag would be an issue. It isn't like they wouldn't let you shoot; but it would not allow you to do the normal course of fire. Weaver makes rings that will allow a forward or rearward offset:http://www.weaveroptics.com/rings_bases/rings/detachable_top_mount/default.aspx. I would ask you if it is possible that the scope is already to far forward with your current set-up. Try moving the scope, without the tops of the rings installed, backward and forward, repositioning your rings if necessary. In my experience, a tiny viewing aperture through a scope means that it is mounted too far away from the user's eye. Start from the beginning, and see how things go. |
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Posted: 7/26/2014 2:34:26 PM EDT
[#14]
The main thing about getting the most from the Appleseed experience is making sure your rifle is reliable, sighted-in at the appropriate range, and that you, as the shooter, are familiar with running it.
Before I participated in my Appleseed, I bought a 10-22, modified it a little bit, and also bought Fred's Guide to Becoming a Rifleman. The Appleseed course of fire is all in there, plus a wealth of tips on how to succeed. Well worth the cheap cost. So, having the rifle, Guide, and ammo in hand, I proceeded to my local rifle range to practice. Unfortunately, this was in late winter, so snow and freezing rain was the norm for the weekends I used for practicing. Big deal. I've shot in heavy snow before. The main thing is to practice, folks. Read the Guide, practice using the Guide, and learn andmaintain your rifle. This alone will make sure you arrive on the day of the Appleseed with a good, functioning rifle, useable sights, and a basic understanding of what's expected of you--and how to succeed and get a Rifleman's patch. You are miles ahead of the folks that show up knowing--and practicing--less than you. At my particular match, I had very little coaching. Except for Fred, who kept reminding me that I was "dragging wood' with the inside of my trigger finger. Most of the coaches saw what I was doing, offered a few tips, and moved on to other folks who were having a more difficult time. The staff devoted their efforts where they were needed, and rightly so. You see, I had already educated myself, and they would have been wasting their time on me, when other shooters needed their help far more than I did. You can do it, too. I'm no natural rifle shooter. Anything I've achieved has been the result of effort and learning. If I can get a Rifleman patch on the first try, so can you. But you have to put some time and effort into it before the Appleseed. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:44:04 AM EDT
[#15]
Met the Colorado Appleseed coordinators yesterday at the http://www.colorado2a.org/ meet and greet.
They explained the whole course of fire and we talked general stuff. On day 2, we'll be shooting out to 575 yds! Really looking forward to the shoot in the few weeks. I think I'm going to get this cheapie for the 10/22: (there's only a red dot on it now) http://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-ar-optics-2-7x32-rimfire-riflescope-w-bdc-reticle-matte-black.html I'd get the Primary Arms 1-6, but it's out of stock until Sept |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:58:27 AM EDT
[#16]
patchouli I got your message.
You were the straw that broke the camels back... my inbox is now full so I can't send until the cache clears tonight! Yes, certainly interested is the answer. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:00:06 AM EDT
[#17]
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patchouli I got your message. You were the straw that broke the camels back... my inbox is now full so I can't send until the cache clears tonight! Yes, certainly interested is the answer. Ok. Mount too? Here's mine mounted. .  .
I basically bought it to see if I like the concept of a 1-6 on my rifle. Weight and quickness, etc Haven't shot it yet but love the reticle. Glass is decent. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:05:39 AM EDT
[#18]
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Better than most rifle shooters in America, given that barely 15% of shooters can score Expert at either 25 yards OR the actual known distances. Got your Rifleman patch on the first try, did ya?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's "alright". Basic marksmanship. Instructors... meh. Story time... meh Better than nothing Better than most rifle shooters in America, given that barely 15% of shooters can score Expert at either 25 yards OR the actual known distances. Got your Rifleman patch on the first try, did ya? I got my patch on my first attempt, using the rifle shown below. I have an offer to all my local customers/friends that I'll give $250 to anyone who shoots Rifleman on their first attempt using a center-fire rifle and iron sights. Not a single person has taken any money from me yet. The millenial/airsoft generation knows what looks cool in the picture threads, but 90% of gun owners in the country cant shoot worth a shit. The Appleseed Program is the best thing to come along since the DCM/CMP. 
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:16:42 AM EDT
[#19]
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Do it. You won't be disappointed. Two days of solid instruction for $60. I know of no other nationwide organization that is both 1) more effective at teaching positional rifle marksmanship and 2) more dedicated to promoting our heritage of liberty. Brianf31 Project Appleseed Instructor what happened in the organization. I've heard some things |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:19:28 AM EDT
[#20]
I did it twice. at ramsuer with fred teaching. Its a good program. I did it with a Garand before all the current craziness. (2004-2005) I shot rifleman at 25s meter on the ghost targets, but had to leave when we were doing it at distance (family stuff). So I did not get to get my patch. I am confident I could have.
Its a good program. Solid fundamentals. and its not easy to shoot rifleman. and those guys who are crack shots are fun to watch! There have been a few changes since then I understand. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:26:51 AM EDT
[#21]
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Ok. Mount too? Here's mine mounted. .http://i60.tinypic.com/byelf.jpg. I basically bought it to see if I like the concept of a 1-6 on my rifle. Weight and quickness, etc Haven't shot it yet but love the reticle. Glass is decent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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patchouli I got your message. You were the straw that broke the camels back... my inbox is now full so I can't send until the cache clears tonight! Yes, certainly interested is the answer. Ok. Mount too? Here's mine mounted. .http://i60.tinypic.com/byelf.jpg. I basically bought it to see if I like the concept of a 1-6 on my rifle. Weight and quickness, etc Haven't shot it yet but love the reticle. Glass is decent. mount too! |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:36:50 AM EDT
[#22]
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Is this not the same organization that requires you to use a copyrighted target that you have to purchase? If not, my bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Its a revenue generation scam. That said, you get to shoot guns, so how bad can it be? 
You wanna back that statement up? Don't waste your time; he can't. not when I was there. It was a part of your fee. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:46:53 AM EDT
[#23]
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Some of the Appleseed instructors were PMIs, though. On a related note: very few shooters who were (claiming to be) Army, Navy, Air Force, OR Marines make Expert on their first weekend. (Of course, it's possible some of them just claim to be military to get a discount on the weekend...  )
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Do it. You won't be disappointed. Two days of solid instruction for $60. I know of no other nationwide organization that is both 1) more effective at teaching positional rifle marksmanship and 2) more dedicated to promoting our heritage of liberty. Brianf31 Project Appleseed Instructor Is USMC a national organization? There was a guy here who claimed that an Appleseed was as good at teaching rifle marksmanship as Marine boot. Which is horseshit, of course....volunteers at a two-day course can't possibly compare to two solid weeks with professional PMIs. That said, I think the Appleseed is a great program for beginners. Just be realistic about what to expect, and realize that simulated 500 yard targets are not the same as learning to shoot with wind at 500 yards. Some of the Appleseed instructors were PMIs, though. On a related note: very few shooters who were (claiming to be) Army, Navy, Air Force, OR Marines make Expert on their first weekend. (Of course, it's possible some of them just claim to be military to get a discount on the weekend... )
I am not exactly an elite marksman but got my patch on the first try. 
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Posted: 7/27/2014 6:54:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Appleseed with the wife and 4 kids is a great mini vacation, cheep too. Fun times for sure.
I must have 4 or 5 of those Appleseed T-shirts |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 7:06:29 AM EDT
[#25]
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I got my patch on my first attempt, using the rifle shown below. I have an offer to all my local customers/friends that I'll give $250 to anyone who shoots Rifleman on their first attempt using a center-fire rifle and iron sights. Not a single person has taken any money from me yet. The millenial/airsoft generation knows what looks cool in the picture threads, but 90% of gun owners in the country cant shoot worth a shit. The Appleseed Program is the best thing to come along since the DCM/CMP. http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/appleseed.jpg Do I have to drive to Ohio to take your money? |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 7:08:01 AM EDT
[#26]
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I had a good time and learned a lot. I brought a non-FF AR and the sling does mess with POI. The mag can interfere with your arm too. In hindsight, a 10/22 with Tech Sights would have been a better choice. Member jlficken got his rifleman badge with an otherwise stock 10/22 w/ Tech Sights and a 87# factory trigger. He's not kidding about the trigger. It is still horrible after 10K+ rounds through the gun. It is all of 12lbs but I am just used to it I guess since I have had it for 20+ years :) Tech Sights made a huge difference in shootability with the gun and were a large part of shooting it well I think. I really want one of the 50th Anniv guns too. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 10:11:31 PM EDT
[#27]
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I got my patch on my first attempt, using the rifle shown below. I have an offer to all my local customers/friends that I'll give $250 to anyone who shoots Rifleman on their first attempt using a center-fire rifle and iron sights. Not a single person has taken any money from me yet. The millenial/airsoft generation knows what looks cool in the picture threads, but 90% of gun owners in the country cant shoot worth a shit. The Appleseed Program is the best thing to come along since the DCM/CMP. http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/appleseed.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's "alright". Basic marksmanship. Instructors... meh. Story time... meh Better than nothing Better than most rifle shooters in America, given that barely 15% of shooters can score Expert at either 25 yards OR the actual known distances. Got your Rifleman patch on the first try, did ya? I got my patch on my first attempt, using the rifle shown below. I have an offer to all my local customers/friends that I'll give $250 to anyone who shoots Rifleman on their first attempt using a center-fire rifle and iron sights. Not a single person has taken any money from me yet. The millenial/airsoft generation knows what looks cool in the picture threads, but 90% of gun owners in the country cant shoot worth a shit. The Appleseed Program is the best thing to come along since the DCM/CMP. http://www.adcofirearms.com/junkpics/appleseed.jpg Was that just at the 25yd range? I've always heard shooting with a tight sling on an A1 makes it go all wonky at range. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 4:16:31 AM EDT
[#28]
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The rounds in mags is important, because it is done to force a mag change while shooting at a target, before you transition to the next target. Chances are they will let you load differently if you are having issues getting your gun to work with the round count, but you probably won't get a rifleman patch even if you do shoot 210+. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was planning on using a scope for the next Appleseed I attend. However, I can't push the scope any further forward to have a decent sight picture when I am shooting prone. I am looking at a pin hole. I have a rail on top of the rifle and the mount is in the furthest rails. The scope is all the way forward to the adjustment turrets. FWIW: the scope is a Leupold rimfire scope. As far as shooting a bolt action with five round mags...........I don't know if there are specific rules about how you load your magazines. The course of fire for stages 2 & 3 says you load 8 and 2. You shoot the 2 and then change mags. However I am guessing that the exact quantity isn't as important as the fact that you are doing a magazine change. After I found out that I can't really use my scoped 10/22 (see above), I decided to shoot my next Appleseed with a Mossberg M44 bolt gun that I got from the CMP. It has an eight round magazine. However, when I have loaded eight rounds in it, the first round doesn't want to feed. So I have been practicing loading one mag with six and the other with four. That is going to have two work. In my experience, Appleseed seems to be very friendly to whatever you bring: they will try to make it work. So I am not really worried about the magazine issue. I did some internet searching and found some 15 round mags for the M44 and I ordered them. Hopefully the shipping will be prompt. That would enable me to not have to do a mag change at all on stages 1 and 4 and also allow me to load 8 & 2 on stages 2&3; but if I don't get them, I am going to use what I have. No big deal. Now showing up with one five round mag would be an issue. It isn't like they wouldn't let you shoot; but it would not allow you to do the normal course of fire. The rounds in mags is important, because it is done to force a mag change while shooting at a target, before you transition to the next target. Chances are they will let you load differently if you are having issues getting your gun to work with the round count, but you probably won't get a rifleman patch even if you do shoot 210+. I see, that makes sense to so degree I guess. They want to see if you still have NPOA after mag change ? With my rifle You are making a mag change before you change targets on Stage 2 and adding a mag change in stages 1, and 4 (if you are shooting a 10/22 you can load all 10 on 1 & 4). So the only stage effected would be stage 3. And even there you change mags and still have to have NPOA , it's just not at the same point. I am assuming they make some kind of allowance for people who don't have a rifle with an eight round mag ? Like the rifle I want to shoot. I have a Riflemans Patch, so it isn't a big deal. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:22:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Hmm,
I've been thinking about going to one, and bringing the fiance with me. Would be nice if they had one at the local range, but it looks like they are offered not too terribly far away. My main question. The rifles I have are a CQBR type AR... ie 10.3" SBR.... And a Winchester Model 52 Target, (Very accurate, Pan style peep sights, and heavy. Also currently only own the blocked magazine that holds one round) 
Could I get away with either of these? or would it be silly to bring, and I would be better picking up a 10/22 or similar for the event? |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:36:15 AM EDT
[#30]
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Hmm, I've been thinking about going to one, and bringing the fiance with me. Would be nice if they had one at the local range, but it looks like they are offered not too terribly far away. My main question. The rifles I have are a CQBR type AR... ie 10.3" SBR.... And a Winchester Model 52 Target, (Very accurate, Pan style peep sights, and heavy. Also currently only own the blocked magazine that holds one round) <a href="http://s58.photobucket.com/user/lltek2002/media/CQBR_zpsaadbcc8f.png.html" target="_blank">http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/lltek2002/CQBR_zpsaadbcc8f.png</a> <a href="http://s58.photobucket.com/user/lltek2002/media/19B0257C-8D62-4E2E-83AC-44BAD15F856F-17070-00000A472B595590_zps1cdfb1d4.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/lltek2002/19B0257C-8D62-4E2E-83AC-44BAD15F856F-17070-00000A472B595590_zps1cdfb1d4.jpg</a> Could I get away with either of these? or would it be silly to bring, and I would be better picking up a 10/22 or similar for the event? A single shot will not work for the course of fire. The 10.3" SBR will work just fine. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:39:05 AM EDT
[#31]
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A single shot will not work for the course of fire. The 10.3" SBR will work just fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hmm, I've been thinking about going to one, and bringing the fiance with me. Would be nice if they had one at the local range, but it looks like they are offered not too terribly far away. My main question. The rifles I have are a CQBR type AR... ie 10.3" SBR.... And a Winchester Model 52 Target, (Very accurate, Pan style peep sights, and heavy. Also currently only own the blocked magazine that holds one round) <a href="http://s58.photobucket.com/user/lltek2002/media/CQBR_zpsaadbcc8f.png.html" target="_blank">http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/lltek2002/CQBR_zpsaadbcc8f.png</a> <a href="http://s58.photobucket.com/user/lltek2002/media/19B0257C-8D62-4E2E-83AC-44BAD15F856F-17070-00000A472B595590_zps1cdfb1d4.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/lltek2002/19B0257C-8D62-4E2E-83AC-44BAD15F856F-17070-00000A472B595590_zps1cdfb1d4.jpg</a> Could I get away with either of these? or would it be silly to bring, and I would be better picking up a 10/22 or similar for the event? A single shot will not work for the course of fire. The 10.3" SBR will work just fine. Awesome, thanks for the quick response! |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:39:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's "alright". Basic marksmanship. Instructors... meh. Story time... meh Better than nothing good basic marksmanship skills - lots of 'SCHTIC' some of the instructors have seen a few too many movies about boot camp. overall fun - just take with a pinch of salt |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:42:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could I get away with either of these? or would it be silly to bring, and I would be better picking up a 10/22 or similar for the event? You can use the AR if you have the ammo. But if you have the money, I would want a 10-22. Your neighbors on the firing line will appreciate you more, too.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 5:49:39 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was that just at the 25yd range? I've always heard shooting with a tight sling on an A1 makes it go all wonky at range. You only need to shoot 4 MOA, that sling isn't going to pull out of a 4 MOA group. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 6:12:09 AM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 7/28/2014 6:43:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its a revenue generation scam. That said, you get to shoot guns, so how bad can it be? care to elaborate how it is a scam? range fees and other costs are what account for the 60$ charge. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 6:48:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not saying the training is horrible or that it is too basic. I am saying the quality of instructor is...highly variable. The way they run it too, is a bit "rushed" too. They pull you into a group and show a technique, then you go back to the line and immediately fire it. Very little, to no time to "dry practice" it and get corrections, find positions. Then the breaks for stories should be cool... but are pretty lame and a time waster. Stuttered by some guy who thinks he's james earl jones. As for my scores. I did okay for using a gun with a broken rear sight (literally half the sight was missing). I didnt get my super cool patch. Maybe if we spent more time practicing positions and correcting them instead of listening to a shitty retelling of common history, I would have. Other than that... it's fun to shoot stuff. "common" history that the majority of those attending the classes have never heard? thats not common if you ask me. its great to get kids interested in their nations history, with factual historic events, not the watered down shit that is history in public schools these days |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 8:40:21 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You only need to shoot 4 MOA, that sling isn't going to pull out of a 4 MOA group. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Was that just at the 25yd range? I've always heard shooting with a tight sling on an A1 makes it go all wonky at range. You only need to shoot 4 MOA, that sling isn't going to pull out of a 4 MOA group. Neat, I may take mine to the next event. Do you have any experience shooting the A1's slung at longer distances? |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:07:54 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Neat, I may take mine to the next event. Do you have any experience shooting the A1's slung at longer distances? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Was that just at the 25yd range? I've always heard shooting with a tight sling on an A1 makes it go all wonky at range. You only need to shoot 4 MOA, that sling isn't going to pull out of a 4 MOA group. Neat, I may take mine to the next event. Do you have any experience shooting the A1's slung at longer distances? You can take a light/slightly loose sling with an A1 pencil barrel, but I guarantee that if you take a tight sling, you will move the A1 barrel an appreciable amount. No worries, though. Experiment and find how tight the sling can be adjusted before things go awry. Even with a light sling, you are ahead of no sling at all. f |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:11:47 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess if I showed up with a CZ452 with iron sights and 5rd magazines I would be SOL... No. I know an Appleseed instructor in training who can shoot timed AQTs all day long and make 210+ pretty much every time. He uses a stock 452 LUX model equipped with a usgi sling. He is just a machine with a bolt-action. I've seen other shooters do as well using Savage Mk IIs. Working the bolt does tend to break your natural point of aim (taught during Appleseed), but you can train yourself to re-acquire it rapidly and finish the stage in the time allotted. It will be challenging. 10-rd mags are helpful, but not necessary. The AQT is derived from a course of fire that is decades old, originally developed for the 1903 Springfield using 5-rd stripper clips. You would simply be going old-school. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:23:10 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's "alright". Basic marksmanship. Instructors... meh. Story time... meh Better than nothing Found yer problem. The quality of the instruction is dependent on the quality of the instructor. It is a basic rifle marksmanship course and with good instructors pretty much EVERYONE will benefit. If you went through the course and thought it was of no use to you, I'd like to see your perfect target. If you went into it expecting a fighting rifle course like Gunsite or Pat Rodger's offers, then it's no surprise you were disappointed. Appleseed is a program that is intended to take novice shooters from a position of zero experience with rifles to the ability to shoot less than 4 MOA with irons or unmagnified optics from field positions. Experienced shooters are reminded of the fundamentals and get an opportunity to identify and eliminate bad habits. It is an outstanding course for rifle marksmanship. It is not a combat course but the fundamentals can dramatically improve your effectiveness in a combat course. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:24:20 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm, I've been thinking about going to one, and bringing the fiance with me. Would be nice if they had one at the local range, but it looks like they are offered not too terribly far away. My main question. The rifles I have are a CQBR type AR... ie 10.3" SBR.... And a Winchester Model 52 Target, (Very accurate, Pan style peep sights, and heavy. Also currently only own the blocked magazine that holds one round) http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/lltek2002/CQBR_zpsaadbcc8f.png http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/lltek2002/19B0257C-8D62-4E2E-83AC-44BAD15F856F-17070-00000A472B595590_zps1cdfb1d4.jpg Could I get away with either of these? or would it be silly to bring, and I would be better picking up a 10/22 or similar for the event? It would be really hard with the single shot, but you could get in some darn good practice. I took my old school T-bolt and barely missed getting my rifleman patch even though I only had one 5rd mag. I would empty the mag and then feed them in with my trigger pulling hand. I found that if I held the rounds just right in my hand that they weren't too bad to feed in. I just needed the extra 2-3 shots I couldn't get off due to time since I had to blast away to get as many shots on paper as possible.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:27:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its a revenue generation scam. That said, you get to shoot guns, so how bad can it be? Yeah 'cause people should teach stuff for free because racism. |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 9:38:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm, I've been thinking about going to one, and bringing the fiance with me. Would be nice if they had one at the local range, but it looks like they are offered not too terribly far away. My main question. The rifles I have are a CQBR type AR... ie 10.3" SBR.... And a Winchester Model 52 Target, (Very accurate, Pan style peep sights, and heavy. Also currently only own the blocked magazine that holds one round) <a href="http://s58.photobucket.com/user/lltek2002/media/CQBR_zpsaadbcc8f.png.html" target="_blank">http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/lltek2002/CQBR_zpsaadbcc8f.png</a> <a href="http://s58.photobucket.com/user/lltek2002/media/19B0257C-8D62-4E2E-83AC-44BAD15F856F-17070-00000A472B595590_zps1cdfb1d4.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g277/lltek2002/19B0257C-8D62-4E2E-83AC-44BAD15F856F-17070-00000A472B595590_zps1cdfb1d4.jpg</a> Could I get away with either of these? or would it be silly to bring, and I would be better picking up a 10/22 or similar for the event? Use the AR. Learn to shoot that well. SBRs are not intrinsically less accurate than longer barreled ARs so you should have no trouble at 25m. If ammo is the concern, then buy a 10/22 with tech sights or a conversion kit for your AR. Of course, .22lr is still not that easy to come by, either.... |
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Posted: 7/28/2014 10:00:26 AM EDT
[#45]
Ok the NPOA thing has convinced me to go with a 10/22 rather than a CZ 452
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 1:46:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weaver makes rings that will allow a forward or rearward offset:http://www.weaveroptics.com/rings_bases/rings/detachable_top_mount/default.aspx. I would ask you if it is possible that the scope is already to far forward with your current set-up. Try moving the scope, without the tops of the rings installed, backward and forward, repositioning your rings if necessary. In my experience, a tiny viewing aperture through a scope means that it is mounted too far away from the user's eye. Start from the beginning, and see how things go. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was planning on using a scope for the next Appleseed I attend. However, I can't push the scope any further forward to have a decent sight picture when I am shooting prone. I am looking at a pin hole. I have a rail on top of the rifle and the mount is in the furthest rails. The scope is all the way forward to the adjustment turrets. FWIW: the scope is a Leupold rimfire scope. As far as shooting a bolt action with five round mags...........I don't know if there are specific rules about how you load your magazines. The course of fire for stages 2 & 3 says you load 8 and 2. You shoot the 2 and then change mags. However I am guessing that the exact quantity isn't as important as the fact that you are doing a magazine change. After I found out that I can't really use my scoped 10/22 (see above), I decided to shoot my next Appleseed with a Mossberg M44 bolt gun that I got from the CMP. It has an eight round magazine. However, when I have loaded eight rounds in it, the first round doesn't want to feed. So I have been practicing loading one mag with six and the other with four. That is going to have two work. In my experience, Appleseed seems to be very friendly to whatever you bring: they will try to make it work. So I am not really worried about the magazine issue. I did some internet searching and found some 15 round mags for the M44 and I ordered them. Hopefully the shipping will be prompt. That would enable me to not have to do a mag change at all on stages 1 and 4 and also allow me to load 8 & 2 on stages 2&3; but if I don't get them, I am going to use what I have. No big deal. Now showing up with one five round mag would be an issue. It isn't like they wouldn't let you shoot; but it would not allow you to do the normal course of fire. Weaver makes rings that will allow a forward or rearward offset:http://www.weaveroptics.com/rings_bases/rings/detachable_top_mount/default.aspx. I would ask you if it is possible that the scope is already to far forward with your current set-up. Try moving the scope, without the tops of the rings installed, backward and forward, repositioning your rings if necessary. In my experience, a tiny viewing aperture through a scope means that it is mounted too far away from the user's eye. Start from the beginning, and see how things go. Thank you very much, I ordered the rings when I read this, and got them today. They are perfect. I now have a good clean sight picture in prone. I have to chicken neck in standing to get the full field of the scope, but that is a good thing. The rear of my scope is not approx. flush with the back of the receiver. |
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Posted: 7/31/2014 1:49:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The rounds in mags is important, because it is done to force a mag change while shooting at a target, before you transition to the next target. Chances are they will let you load differently if you are having issues getting your gun to work with the round count, but you probably won't get a rifleman patch even if you do shoot 210+. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I was planning on using a scope for the next Appleseed I attend. However, I can't push the scope any further forward to have a decent sight picture when I am shooting prone. I am looking at a pin hole. I have a rail on top of the rifle and the mount is in the furthest rails. The scope is all the way forward to the adjustment turrets. FWIW: the scope is a Leupold rimfire scope. As far as shooting a bolt action with five round mags...........I don't know if there are specific rules about how you load your magazines. The course of fire for stages 2 & 3 says you load 8 and 2. You shoot the 2 and then change mags. However I am guessing that the exact quantity isn't as important as the fact that you are doing a magazine change. After I found out that I can't really use my scoped 10/22 (see above), I decided to shoot my next Appleseed with a Mossberg M44 bolt gun that I got from the CMP. It has an eight round magazine. However, when I have loaded eight rounds in it, the first round doesn't want to feed. So I have been practicing loading one mag with six and the other with four. That is going to have two work. In my experience, Appleseed seems to be very friendly to whatever you bring: they will try to make it work. So I am not really worried about the magazine issue. I did some internet searching and found some 15 round mags for the M44 and I ordered them. Hopefully the shipping will be prompt. That would enable me to not have to do a mag change at all on stages 1 and 4 and also allow me to load 8 & 2 on stages 2&3; but if I don't get them, I am going to use what I have. No big deal. Now showing up with one five round mag would be an issue. It isn't like they wouldn't let you shoot; but it would not allow you to do the normal course of fire. The rounds in mags is important, because it is done to force a mag change while shooting at a target, before you transition to the next target. Chances are they will let you load differently if you are having issues getting your gun to work with the round count, but you probably won't get a rifleman patch even if you do shoot 210+. Got this issue with my bolt gun fixed also. After I posted this, I went on line to buy a couple spare mags for the Mossberg M44. They had larger magazines and I got them a few days ago. This is stupid, but I don't know how many they hold, but it is at least 13 because I have been practicing for this weekend and began each session with a Redcoat. But, I have never tried to load one to capacity......maybe it holds 15 ? Anyway, I can now load 8 and 2. As an added bonus, the much longer mag is much easier to make the mag changes with. The original factory mags just barely stick below the gun. These new larger capacity mags stick out like 3 inches. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 8:54:11 AM EDT
[#48]
got my rifle together
if I fail to shoot well, I won't be able to blame the gear 
(I might need to get an extended scope rail to let me go one or two more notches forward for eye relief) |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:47:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: got my rifle together if I fail to shoot well, I won't be able to blame the gear http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/Gatordonald/Arfjunk/6FDB23AD-E33E-4CCD-AF0F-367117A9F7C3_zpssscszpyq.jpg (I might need to get an extended scope rail to let me go one or two more notches forward for eye relief) Sexy rifle. Yeah, I think you're gonna have big time eye relief problems with it in its current config.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 10:30:46 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sexy rifle. Yeah, I think you're gonna have big time eye relief problems with it in its current config. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
got my rifle together if I fail to shoot well, I won't be able to blame the gear http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/Gatordonald/Arfjunk/6FDB23AD-E33E-4CCD-AF0F-367117A9F7C3_zpssscszpyq.jpg (I might need to get an extended scope rail to let me go one or two more notches forward for eye relief) Sexy rifle. Yeah, I think you're gonna have big time eye relief problems with it in its current config. it's ok seated and standing... it's too close prone |
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