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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:31:53 AM EDT
[#1]
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I know! It's not illegal to create encryption that you can't access. You would think companies would do this just to avoid dealing with calls from law enforcement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good In before the "if you haven't done anything, you have nothing to fear" crowd Isn't a search warrant the proper way to do things? Why you hate the constitution? They designed it that way. It's not illegal to create encryption that you can't access. You would think companies would do this just to avoid dealing with calls from law enforcement. Given the costs associated with subpoena/warrant compliance, it's what I'd do were I running a tech company. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:40:27 AM EDT
[#2]
Words.
Are cheap. They will comply. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:40:45 AM EDT
[#3]
what criminal activities do iPhone and iPad users do that makes this appealing to them?
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:43:59 AM EDT
[#4]
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Apple's policy does not circumvent the right to obtain evidence through the use of a search warrant. Nor does it eliminate 'Contempt of Court' laws. What it does it remove the government's ability to force Apple to reveal personal data stored and encrypted on its customer's devices, BIG, BIG difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good In before the "if you haven't done anything, you have nothing to fear" crowd Isn't a search warrant the proper way to do things? Why you hate the constitution? Apple's policy does not circumvent the right to obtain evidence through the use of a search warrant. Nor does it eliminate 'Contempt of Court' laws. What it does it remove the government's ability to force Apple to reveal personal data stored and encrypted on its customer's devices, BIG, BIG difference. You can explain it to them .... You cannot understand it for them ! 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:46:20 AM EDT
[#5]
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All lawful access required. There is no hardware, software, encryption, etc sold with a FCC license that does not allow for all lawful access or national security. Every device has a backdoor built in big enough to drive the NSA and DOJ through it. Or it doesn't get a sticker. Phones, computers, etc. Been this way for decades. Used to be in the opening page of the Telecom Act. They probably bury it a little deeper now. This doesn't apply to encryption software for storage devices, much of which is 3rd party and unregulated anyway. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:51:51 AM EDT
[#6]
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Wow, big surprise that you are defending, condoning, and advocating the .gov finding more ways to access citizens electronic devices. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not a bad thing overall. More agencies will develop their own entry capability in house and have their own techs. This will be good justification for more funding and more employees along with a higher level of capability to manipulate the device in house. Wow, big surprise that you are defending, condoning, and advocating the .gov finding more ways to access citizens electronic devices. Support a veteran owned business. https://katanaforensics.com |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:52:17 AM EDT
[#7]
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Not a bad thing overall. More agencies will develop their own entry capability in house and have their own techs. This will be good justification for more funding and more employees along with a higher level of capability to manipulate the device in house. Every black cloud has a silver lining of empire building. 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:52:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Of course, the other conspiracy-theory possibility here is that the .gov secretly strong-armed Apple into marketing the new OS and devices in this manner as a gigantic honeypot.
"Oh look, Achmed ... this new iPhone is most Halal ... many snackbars ..." |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:52:26 AM EDT
[#9]
LOL
It is a 4 digit number. It would take a cop a couple hours and a couple cups of coffee to try all 10,000 combinations |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:55:41 AM EDT
[#10]
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LOL It is a 4 digit number. It would take a cop a couple hours and a couple cups of coffee to try all 10,000 combinations I thought there were other ways to lock it (like that swipe pattern thingy) that were harder to crack? I don't know, I still use a Blackberry. With full device encryption and a very complex password. Good luck cracking that. 
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:56:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They designed it that way. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Good In before the "if you haven't done anything, you have nothing to fear" crowd Isn't a search warrant the proper way to do things? Why you hate the constitution? They designed it that way. yup. good on apple
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Posted: 9/18/2014 7:56:32 AM EDT
[#12]
Big deal. Nasty Spy Agency has that info anyway.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:00:54 AM EDT
[#13]
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Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. I'm pretty sure that the number of people evading conviction because the only possible evidence of a crime was on their cell phone is pretty close to zero. In any case, plenty of information will still be available on the phone, just not stored data - i.e. you will still be able to track it's location, calls made and received etc. About the only thing this will protect is browsing history (if they're smart) and stored pictures/video. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:04:29 AM EDT
[#14]
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what criminal activities do iPhone and iPad users do that makes this appealing to them? You are looking at it from the wrong side---it is not that iPhone users are criminals, but that nearly every criminal has a smartphone, and many are, in fact, dumb enough to leave incriminating evidence on them. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:05:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Good
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:06:12 AM EDT
[#16]
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LOL It is a 4 digit number. It would take a cop a couple hours and a couple cups of coffee to try all 10,000 combinations SIMPLE passcode is 4 numbers. I am not sure if device encryption (the little 'Data protection is enabled' message) comes into play when a user selects 'Simple Passcode'. Normal passcode can include letters, numbers, and symbols, and can be a tad larger than 4 characters. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:07:28 AM EDT
[#17]
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The only thing that concerns me is that they mention data being automatically backed up in the cloud. Hopefully phones will not be configured like that out of the box as that is just as bad as having the password subpoenable. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not a bad thing overall. More agencies will develop their own entry capability in house and have their own techs. This will be good justification for more funding and more employees along with a higher level of capability to manipulate the device in house. As long as it is a pause long enough for them to get a search warrant, I'm ok with this. Reading through phones on the side of the road was bullshit and everyone with a brain knew it. The only thing that concerns me is that they mention data being automatically backed up in the cloud. Hopefully phones will not be configured like that out of the box as that is just as bad as having the password subpoenable. That's why they are happy to encrypt the phone now. All the data is in the cloud, on their servers.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:08:59 AM EDT
[#18]
straight from the IRS playbook...."don't look at us we don't have the data'
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:09:21 AM EDT
[#19]
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what criminal activities do iPhone and iPad users do that makes this appealing to them? Your question is worded improperly. Think about it .....
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:14:05 AM EDT
[#20]
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All the data is in the cloud, on their servers.
That's not true!
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:14:42 AM EDT
[#21]
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Yes. Of course they won't. After all, they have a policy. 
You know how I know you didn't read even the OP, much less the actual article? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:16:09 AM EDT
[#22]
I'll believe it once the cryptographic guys who know their shit look it over. Until then, I'll assume every single OS out there is penetrated. Hell, they even found a way though truecrypt through firewire ports.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:21:27 AM EDT
[#23]
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LOL It is a 4 digit number. It would take a cop a couple hours and a couple cups of coffee to try all 10,000 combinations LOL Only if you're lazy and/or don't use good passwords. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:23:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then Apple won't qualify for that little FCC sticker on the back of the phone. No sticker, no sale in the US. Every Federal Telecom Act for decades has required that any new technology have an access for LEO and national security. No back door = no license to sell Telecom in the US. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good In before the "if you haven't done anything, you have nothing to fear" crowd Isn't a search warrant the proper way to do things? Why you hate the constitution? Then Apple won't qualify for that little FCC sticker on the back of the phone. No sticker, no sale in the US. Every Federal Telecom Act for decades has required that any new technology have an access for LEO and national security. No back door = no license to sell Telecom in the US. Likely this lever would get used eventually. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:24:15 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL It is a 4 digit number. It would take a cop a couple hours and a couple cups of coffee to try all 10,000 combinations 4? Mine is not four characters long. Then again, I am not a dumbass.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:36:16 AM EDT
[#26]
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what criminal activities do iPhone and iPad users do that makes this appealing to them? 4th Amendment. Why do you hate freedom? I know it is really tempting to some to look through other peoples wife pics and things. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:38:25 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good luck on the warrants front. As I was instructed, a warrant can span from "you may do XYZ" to "the Court orders XYZ be done." Willful obstruction of a court order probably won't go over so hot, if it comes to refusing-warrants time. If there's no way to get in the phone then there's no way to do it. Just tell the police to f*ck off. Apple is basically saying we don't have the capability to do that, sorry. It's no different than when people had dumb phones back in the day. You can get a warrant to look at call logs from the carrier, but in reality what's accessing a phone gonna do? |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:39:06 AM EDT
[#28]
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Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. For the childrens! |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:41:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll believe it once the cryptographic guys who know their shit look it over. Until then, I'll assume every single OS out there is penetrated. Hell, they even found a way though truecrypt through firewire ports. Not just penetrated. Full blown airtight pterodactyled. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:43:37 AM EDT
[#30]
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what criminal activities do iPhone and iPad users do that makes this appealing to them? Really? 
You must be that guy in the NRA that tried to throw the Heller case under the bus. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:46:21 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Given the costs associated with subpoena/warrant compliance, it's what I'd do were I running a tech company. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Isn't a search warrant the proper way to do things? Why you hate the constitution? They designed it that way. It's not illegal to create encryption that you can't access. You would think companies would do this just to avoid dealing with calls from law enforcement. Given the costs associated with subpoena/warrant compliance, it's what I'd do were I running a tech company. Yup. Make it so you are physically incapable of complying with the warrant. They can't do shit to you and you can save about a bajillion dollars per year. It's just good business. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:50:52 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If there's no way to get in the phone then there's no way to do it. Just tell the police to f*ck off. Apple is basically saying we don't have the capability to do that, sorry. It's no different than when people had dumb phones back in the day. You can get a warrant to look at call logs from the carrier, but in reality what's accessing a phone gonna do? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good luck on the warrants front. As I was instructed, a warrant can span from "you may do XYZ" to "the Court orders XYZ be done." Willful obstruction of a court order probably won't go over so hot, if it comes to refusing-warrants time. If there's no way to get in the phone then there's no way to do it. Just tell the police to f*ck off. Apple is basically saying we don't have the capability to do that, sorry. It's no different than when people had dumb phones back in the day. You can get a warrant to look at call logs from the carrier, but in reality what's accessing a phone gonna do? Your last line screams ignorance. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:51:38 AM EDT
[#33]
Took them long enough.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:52:38 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. I doubt it... the authorities will just have to have other evidence, which should be easy to do with their wiretap capabilities. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:52:56 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what criminal activities do iPhone and iPad users do that makes this appealing to them? So because I don't want the .gov accessing my phone that means I'm doing criminal activities?
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:55:21 AM EDT
[#36]
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So because I don't want the .gov accessing my phone that means I'm doing criminal activities?
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what criminal activities do iPhone and iPad users do that makes this appealing to them? So because I don't want the .gov accessing my phone that means I'm doing criminal activities?
Obviously. Anyone who doesn't want the governments dick up their ass is a criminal... Or at least they will be when the government is done with them. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:56:39 AM EDT
[#37]
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LOL Only if you're lazy and/or don't use good passwords. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL It is a 4 digit number. It would take a cop a couple hours and a couple cups of coffee to try all 10,000 combinations LOL Only if you're lazy and/or don't use good passwords. Even then if the new OS keeps them from getting a forensic copy of the file system before they start with "0000, 0001, ..." setting the wipe after 10 fails will leave the officer stuck at 0011. Not that I would expect anyone in this thread would know the impact of IOS8 for this at this point. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:57:03 AM EDT
[#38]
Yep same here
Bad thing is you lose your phone its gone unless you keep a warranty on it. Free Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe that you have to setup cloud access as part of the process of setting up a new phone. Personally I turn off all the crap like cloud and location services. What ever happens on my phone .... stays on my phone !!!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not a bad thing overall. More agencies will develop their own entry capability in house and have their own techs. This will be good justification for more funding and more employees along with a higher level of capability to manipulate the device in house. As long as it is a pause long enough for them to get a search warrant, I'm ok with this. Reading through phones on the side of the road was bullshit and everyone with a brain knew it. The only thing that concerns me is that they mention data being automatically backed up in the cloud. Hopefully phones will not be configured like that out of the box as that is just as bad as having the password subpoenable. I believe that you have to setup cloud access as part of the process of setting up a new phone. Personally I turn off all the crap like cloud and location services. What ever happens on my phone .... stays on my phone !!!! |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:57:05 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL Only if you're lazy and/or don't use good passwords. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL It is a 4 digit number. It would take a cop a couple hours and a couple cups of coffee to try all 10,000 combinations LOL Only if you're lazy and/or don't use good passwords. what passwords? It must be a 4 digit number or am I missing a setting someplace? off to look in settings. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:58:14 AM EDT
[#40]
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what passwords? It must be a 4 digit number or am I missing a setting someplace? off to look in settings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL It is a 4 digit number. It would take a cop a couple hours and a couple cups of coffee to try all 10,000 combinations LOL Only if you're lazy and/or don't use good passwords. what passwords? It must be a 4 digit number or am I missing a setting someplace? off to look in settings. http://lifehacker.com/5914602/this-is-how-you-should-secure-your-iphone |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:58:32 AM EDT
[#41]
No they sell with OS7 and you get the new encryption when you update the OS
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then Apple won't qualify for that little FCC sticker on the back of the phone. No sticker, no sale in the US. Every Federal Telecom Act for decades has required that any new technology have an access for LEO and national security. No back door = no license to sell Telecom in the US. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good In before the "if you haven't done anything, you have nothing to fear" crowd Isn't a search warrant the proper way to do things? Why you hate the constitution? Then Apple won't qualify for that little FCC sticker on the back of the phone. No sticker, no sale in the US. Every Federal Telecom Act for decades has required that any new technology have an access for LEO and national security. No back door = no license to sell Telecom in the US. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:58:48 AM EDT
[#42]
I imagine it has become an expensive burden for Apple to respond to all the warrants nation wide. I am sure the various agencies have not ponied up to cover the cost of their investigation.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:58:53 AM EDT
[#43]
Good on Apple . Im sure this will probably do little but slow the feds down just a bit until their own techs crack the codes , but hey . . . it's a start
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arfcom will be high-fiving and cheering until the first kiddy-raper walks free because his Iphone was inaccessible to a Constitutionally valid search warrant. Not this ARFcommer .......better a few bad guys wander about loose than making the entire population vulnerable to gross and widespread 4th Amendment violations. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 8:59:51 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, big surprise that you are defending, condoning, and advocating the .gov finding more ways to access citizens electronic devices. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Not a bad thing overall. More agencies will develop their own entry capability in house and have their own techs. This will be good justification for more funding and more employees along with a higher level of capability to manipulate the device in house. Wow, big surprise that you are defending, condoning, and advocating the .gov finding more ways to access citizens electronic devices. It's not that he is defending it. He wants to bring the guys to do it in house. Like an iPhone Gestapo. |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:04:29 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL It is a 4 digit number. It would take a cop a couple hours and a couple cups of coffee to try all 10,000 combinations LOL Only if you're lazy and/or don't use good passwords. what passwords? It must be a 4 digit number or am I missing a setting someplace? off to look in settings. http://lifehacker.com/5914602/this-is-how-you-should-secure-your-iphone halp! I do not have a settings.general.passcode. ios 7 ETA. found it. Thanks, had no idea this was possible <------------------- DUMBASS |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:09:17 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
halp! I do not have a settings.general.passcode. ios 7 ETA. found it. Thanks, had no idea this was possible <------------------- DUMBASS Yeah... it's as simple as turning off "simple passcode." |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:10:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Now my finger ID does not unlock the phone
ETA. It does work. I hate this shit |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:11:51 AM EDT
[#48]
Something else you are missing, regarding "trying 10,000 times". That won't do you any good if the phone is set to erase everything after 10 incorrect attempts. I see you figured out the "simple passcode" issue, so disregard that box.
As for Apple's new stance: grumpycatgood.jpg |
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:12:46 AM EDT
[#49]
Nothing is secure, there is always a way.
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Posted: 9/18/2014 9:12:48 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now my finger ID does not unlock the phone By setting up the "difficult" password it might have turned off your fingerprint ID login settings. Turn that back on, and then I think your new passcode will act as the backup in case it can't figure out the fingerprint. |
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