Air Force SF - Page 6

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Posted: 8/18/2014 3:04:35 PM EDT

[#1]

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Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

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Yep, compared to United States Marine Infantry, or ya know, that Army kind, Air Force "Infantry:" is fuckin retarded. Still and all, they are a hell of a lot more "Infantry" than the Iraqi kind.

As I said, a lot of this goes back to tech school and Camp Bullis where they go for field training, conducted by Army instructors, teaching from Army manuals.

Fortunately, I did not have to go through that shit, my unit decided that they were not going to teach me a damn thing in 4 weeks that I did not know from 9 years in the Corps. I heard some pretty stupid shit from some of the other folks that went through.

Also, some of the attitude, unfortunately now being washed away, comes from the old SAC days under Curtis Lemay who wanted his Air Police troops to be steely eyed killers, because he just knew the Russians had thousands of sappers just waiting to attack our nuclear forces. Not too many Generals like him around anymore and the career field is taking some hits because of it. The pride of being the only thing that really stands between the USAF and defeat is being lost. Lets face it, no one challenges us in the air, so if you really wanted to hurt the Air Force, you need to hit it on the ground.

The Cop career field is supposed to be the deterrent force, and take the job seriously, but that is being glossed over more and more. The "Guns are Icky" crowd in the upper echelons of the Air Force is growing by leaps and bounds. I think the Air Force would be happy do away with armed troops on its bases altogether. It is gonna hurt bad when it bites them on the ass.

I have to agree with this. I was in during the SAC days and through the drawdown when it went to ACC. SAC during the Cold War was a whole different ballgame. We have heard things have changed completely since then....and mostly not for the better. Like it was mentioned earlier in the post, I won't bash this career field for what they do, but I have grown tired of hearing folks embellish what they did while serving in it. I admit I got to do some pretty cool stuff and saw some interesting things, but I wasn't Tier 1 by any means. The "Stay in your lane" rule should apply here I think. IMHO

You never hear Marine Security Guards call themselves Infantry, or Marine Fleet Security Call themselves infantry. They are generally quite respected for what they are, and for what they aren't. Many Infantrymen want to be them, Others don't. You just never see the weird obsessive need for validation that shows up in every Air Force "SF" thread. It's bizarre.

Then again, this is the same Air Force that called on Army Reserve cooks to guard their air bases for some time after September 11, 2001.

Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Is that when all the AF infantry door kicking happened?

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:05:24 PM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:
A co-worker mentioned, when she and him were in-processing for work he got on his knees and started looking around his chair during orientation. The speaker looked at him funny, chuckled and asked him if anything was wrong. He sat back down all serious like and said "sorry, force of habit, looking for devices."

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You have to be trolling

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:07:14 PM EDT

[#3]

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Quoted:

Is that when all the AF infantry door kicking happened?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep, compared to United States Marine Infantry, or ya know, that Army kind, Air Force "Infantry:" is fuckin retarded. Still and all, they are a hell of a lot more "Infantry" than the Iraqi kind.

As I said, a lot of this goes back to tech school and Camp Bullis where they go for field training, conducted by Army instructors, teaching from Army manuals.

Fortunately, I did not have to go through that shit, my unit decided that they were not going to teach me a damn thing in 4 weeks that I did not know from 9 years in the Corps. I heard some pretty stupid shit from some of the other folks that went through.

Also, some of the attitude, unfortunately now being washed away, comes from the old SAC days under Curtis Lemay who wanted his Air Police troops to be steely eyed killers, because he just knew the Russians had thousands of sappers just waiting to attack our nuclear forces. Not too many Generals like him around anymore and the career field is taking some hits because of it. The pride of being the only thing that really stands between the USAF and defeat is being lost. Lets face it, no one challenges us in the air, so if you really wanted to hurt the Air Force, you need to hit it on the ground.

The Cop career field is supposed to be the deterrent force, and take the job seriously, but that is being glossed over more and more. The "Guns are Icky" crowd in the upper echelons of the Air Force is growing by leaps and bounds. I think the Air Force would be happy do away with armed troops on its bases altogether. It is gonna hurt bad when it bites them on the ass.

I have to agree with this. I was in during the SAC days and through the drawdown when it went to ACC. SAC during the Cold War was a whole different ballgame. We have heard things have changed completely since then....and mostly not for the better. Like it was mentioned earlier in the post, I won't bash this career field for what they do, but I have grown tired of hearing folks embellish what they did while serving in it. I admit I got to do some pretty cool stuff and saw some interesting things, but I wasn't Tier 1 by any means. The "Stay in your lane" rule should apply here I think. IMHO

You never hear Marine Security Guards call themselves Infantry, or Marine Fleet Security Call themselves infantry. They are generally quite respected for what they are, and for what they aren't. Many Infantrymen want to be them, Others don't. You just never see the weird obsessive need for validation that shows up in every Air Force "SF" thread. It's bizarre.

Then again, this is the same Air Force that called on Army Reserve cooks to guard their air bases for some time after September 11, 2001.

Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Is that when all the AF infantry door kicking happened?

lol..any tard can sit in a truck and return fire..or not...

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:10:44 PM EDT

[#4]

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You have to be trolling

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Quoted:
A co-worker mentioned, when she and him were in-processing for work he got on his knees and started looking around his chair during orientation. The speaker looked at him funny, chuckled and asked him if anything was wrong. He sat back down all serious like and said "sorry, force of habit, looking for devices."

You have to be trolling

You can't make this shit up.

Did I mention his "combat breathing" while at work. His cubicle neighbors thought someone was practicing pregnancy breathing techniques or having a panic attack.

This guy is apparently turning the offices space into a warzone.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:20:42 PM EDT

[#5]

For all of you with the AF isnt real military and there are no Spec Ops. Remember that in extortion 17 two of the dead were AF PJs, they must endure two years of training just to put on the emblem. And having been at the memorial ride this year in VB VA, I can tell you the Navy doesnt see branch when they work with someone they respect and KNOW has their back.. Watched the Father of the PJ and a Navy men talk of their mutual love for this young man. All SO are being rolled into Navy teams. They are all bad ass when they get there. and for reference in the AF there are about 300 PJs can you get much more exclusive than that.. Every branch deserves respect not derision. They all serve with honor and dignity those who think otherwise prove themselves what everyone else already knows.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:22:06 PM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:
Unless a person is hell bent on being a cop, Security Forces = didn't score high enough on the asvab for any other job in the AF. With a few exceptions, the SF guys in my flight at BMT were some real window lickers. Makes me feel warm and toasty inside knowing that people that will be protecting the bases I'll be on needed a lesson to put a BCG in BFL first

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I chickened out on switching from my guaranteed AFSC for another which was much cooler.
They said if changed my AFSC and washed out (and I would have) I would be sent to asphalt maintenance or security police.
Good call on my part.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:24:00 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:

Is that when all the AF infantry door kicking happened?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep, compared to United States Marine Infantry, or ya know, that Army kind, Air Force "Infantry:" is fuckin retarded. Still and all, they are a hell of a lot more "Infantry" than the Iraqi kind.

As I said, a lot of this goes back to tech school and Camp Bullis where they go for field training, conducted by Army instructors, teaching from Army manuals.

Fortunately, I did not have to go through that shit, my unit decided that they were not going to teach me a damn thing in 4 weeks that I did not know from 9 years in the Corps. I heard some pretty stupid shit from some of the other folks that went through.

Also, some of the attitude, unfortunately now being washed away, comes from the old SAC days under Curtis Lemay who wanted his Air Police troops to be steely eyed killers, because he just knew the Russians had thousands of sappers just waiting to attack our nuclear forces. Not too many Generals like him around anymore and the career field is taking some hits because of it. The pride of being the only thing that really stands between the USAF and defeat is being lost. Lets face it, no one challenges us in the air, so if you really wanted to hurt the Air Force, you need to hit it on the ground.

The Cop career field is supposed to be the deterrent force, and take the job seriously, but that is being glossed over more and more. The "Guns are Icky" crowd in the upper echelons of the Air Force is growing by leaps and bounds. I think the Air Force would be happy do away with armed troops on its bases altogether. It is gonna hurt bad when it bites them on the ass.

I have to agree with this. I was in during the SAC days and through the drawdown when it went to ACC. SAC during the Cold War was a whole different ballgame. We have heard things have changed completely since then....and mostly not for the better. Like it was mentioned earlier in the post, I won't bash this career field for what they do, but I have grown tired of hearing folks embellish what they did while serving in it. I admit I got to do some pretty cool stuff and saw some interesting things, but I wasn't Tier 1 by any means. The "Stay in your lane" rule should apply here I think. IMHO

You never hear Marine Security Guards call themselves Infantry, or Marine Fleet Security Call themselves infantry. They are generally quite respected for what they are, and for what they aren't. Many Infantrymen want to be them, Others don't. You just never see the weird obsessive need for validation that shows up in every Air Force "SF" thread. It's bizarre.

Then again, this is the same Air Force that called on Army Reserve cooks to guard their air bases for some time after September 11, 2001.

Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Is that when all the AF infantry door kicking happened?

Hate to defend my prior my career field but yeah it is. A few units have been lucky enough to kick doors in the sandbox. Were we doing capture or kill stuff? No. Were we doing low level raids on weapons caches, small time terrorists and bomb makers? Yes.

Doesn't matter though, no matter how cool I try and make Security Forces sound...it's been ruined by tool bag prior and current Security Forces dudes in this thread.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:34:35 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

I chickened out on switching from my guaranteed AFSC for another which was much cooler.
They said if changed my AFSC and washed out (and I would have) I would be sent to asphalt maintenance or security police.
Good call on my part.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Unless a person is hell bent on being a cop, Security Forces = didn't score high enough on the asvab for any other job in the AF. With a few exceptions, the SF guys in my flight at BMT were some real window lickers. Makes me feel warm and toasty inside knowing that people that will be protecting the bases I'll be on needed a lesson to put a BCG in BFL first

I chickened out on switching from my guaranteed AFSC for another which was much cooler.
They said if changed my AFSC and washed out (and I would have) I would be sent to asphalt maintenance or security police.
Good call on my part.

Being a Dirt Boy isn't that bad of a career.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:36:02 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Hate to defend my prior my career field but yeah it is. A few units have been lucky enough to kick doors in the sandbox. Were we doing capture or kill stuff? No. Were we doing low level raids on weapons caches, small time terrorists and bomb makers? Yes.

Doesn't matter though, no matter how cool I try and make Security Forces sound...it's been ruined by tool bag prior and current Security Forces dudes in this thread.

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Tell me about it!!! Chicks don't care about infantry. Professionals think "ASVAB waiver" or "you seem smart- couldn't you get a better MOS?"

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:36:21 PM EDT

[#10]

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Quoted:

I have to agree with this. I was in during the SAC days and through the drawdown when it went to ACC. SAC during the Cold War was a whole different ballgame. We have heard things have changed completely since then....and mostly not for the better. Like it was mentioned earlier in the post, I won't bash this career field for what they do, but I have grown tired of hearing folks embellish what they did while serving in it. I admit I got to do some pretty cool stuff and saw some interesting things, but I wasn't Tier 1 by any means. The "Stay in your lane" rule should apply here I think. IMHO

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep, compared to United States Marine Infantry, or ya know, that Army kind, Air Force "Infantry:" is fuckin retarded. Still and all, they are a hell of a lot more "Infantry" than the Iraqi kind.

As I said, a lot of this goes back to tech school and Camp Bullis where they go for field training, conducted by Army instructors, teaching from Army manuals.

Fortunately, I did not have to go through that shit, my unit decided that they were not going to teach me a damn thing in 4 weeks that I did not know from 9 years in the Corps. I heard some pretty stupid shit from some of the other folks that went through.

Also, some of the attitude, unfortunately now being washed away, comes from the old SAC days under Curtis Lemay who wanted his Air Police troops to be steely eyed killers, because he just knew the Russians had thousands of sappers just waiting to attack our nuclear forces. Not too many Generals like him around anymore and the career field is taking some hits because of it. The pride of being the only thing that really stands between the USAF and defeat is being lost. Lets face it, no one challenges us in the air, so if you really wanted to hurt the Air Force, you need to hit it on the ground.

The Cop career field is supposed to be the deterrent force, and take the job seriously, but that is being glossed over more and more. The "Guns are Icky" crowd in the upper echelons of the Air Force is growing by leaps and bounds. I think the Air Force would be happy do away with armed troops on its bases altogether. It is gonna hurt bad when it bites them on the ass.

I have to agree with this. I was in during the SAC days and through the drawdown when it went to ACC. SAC during the Cold War was a whole different ballgame. We have heard things have changed completely since then....and mostly not for the better. Like it was mentioned earlier in the post, I won't bash this career field for what they do, but I have grown tired of hearing folks embellish what they did while serving in it. I admit I got to do some pretty cool stuff and saw some interesting things, but I wasn't Tier 1 by any means. The "Stay in your lane" rule should apply here I think. IMHO

Post Viet Nam SP was the beginning of the downfall of the career field. I have no clue as to the level of training now, but it was certainly not infantry level in the mid '70's.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:38:19 PM EDT

[#11]

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For all of you with the AF isnt real military and there are no Spec Ops. Remember that in extortion 17 two of the dead were AF PJs, they must endure two years of training just to put on the emblem. And having been at the memorial ride this year in VB VA, I can tell you the Navy doesnt see branch when they work with someone they respect and KNOW has their back.. Watched the Father of the PJ and a Navy men talk of their mutual love for this young man. All SO are being rolled into Navy teams. They are all bad ass when they get there. and for reference in the AF there are about 300 PJs can you get much more exclusive than that.. Every branch deserves respect not derision. They all serve with honor and dignity those who think otherwise prove themselves what everyone else already knows.

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Settle down, Beavis, we aren't talking about PJ's and Combat Forward Observers.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:40:11 PM EDT

[#12]

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Well, 12 March 2001 in Kuwait changed a lot of things on the Udairi range that day, so did 6 months later when two planes flew into the world trade center. For the first time in history we saw what you get when you combine two force multipliers (ODAs + JTACs) into a single cohesive unit and what they could do to the mountains of Afghanistan, preventing another Soviet "Vietnam" in Afghanistan.

The rigid adherence in having a JTAC you speak of is slightly notional. A pilot can drop a bomb without a JTAC present, the pilot takes on the responsibility of control instead of the JTAC, it's just that the added benefits of having that ground/air liaison element that enhances mission success and pilot SA. Regardless, I don't think making JFOs JTACs is the answer. We've sent guys to the Marine's JFO school as well, and have came out distinguished grads. But you're talking about making a 3 week course, a two to three year training pipeline as it currently is for us to be prepped enough to be sent to JTACQC and know and do the job well enough to actually function as a liaison element to the Army. People think being a JTAC is all about "cleared hot", when they couldn't be more wrong. 90% of the job is planning, 3% execution, and 7% rucking with Joe.

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The requirement for JTACs was a sop to the Air Force; prior to the 2003 edition of the Joint Pub 3-09.3 there was not a requirement for JTACs. The bottom line was Air Force wanted to severally limit the accessibility of aerial fire support because of the backlash of numerous, a highly publicized fratricide incidents that occurred in ODS and even during state side training. The Air Forces going in position was only qualified and certified Air Force (either Forward Air Controllers or Enlisted Terminal Air Controllers) personnel could provide terminal control of Air Force assets in all but extermis conditions. The Army, with the support of the Marines, was pushing for what was known was being called a universal observer because of the low density of the FAC/ETAC AFSC in the Air Force, so the concession was to create a joint certification minimum standard and the JTACs was born.

Having been brought up in the old school, I can see some merit in the JTAC standard because the Army did not do a good job of training its maneuver or fires personnel (only a 2 hour Air Force instructed block and a few SIMCAS missions at the fire school house for the entire OBC class and none for 13Fs in their initial training) but the rigid adherence to the requirement especially in combat makes no sense. I think much of what is a JTAC now, should to transitioned to the JFOs. I could see a need for Type 1 control to be modified, as has been seen in testing over 50 percent of the time even experienced aviators while put in a FAC/ALO role could not through visual cues determine whether the air craft was a threat to friendlies or not prior to its attack.

Well, 12 March 2001 in Kuwait changed a lot of things on the Udairi range that day, so did 6 months later when two planes flew into the world trade center. For the first time in history we saw what you get when you combine two force multipliers (ODAs + JTACs) into a single cohesive unit and what they could do to the mountains of Afghanistan, preventing another Soviet "Vietnam" in Afghanistan.

The rigid adherence in having a JTAC you speak of is slightly notional. A pilot can drop a bomb without a JTAC present, the pilot takes on the responsibility of control instead of the JTAC, it's just that the added benefits of having that ground/air liaison element that enhances mission success and pilot SA. Regardless, I don't think making JFOs JTACs is the answer. We've sent guys to the Marine's JFO school as well, and have came out distinguished grads. But you're talking about making a 3 week course, a two to three year training pipeline as it currently is for us to be prepped enough to be sent to JTACQC and know and do the job well enough to actually function as a liaison element to the Army. People think being a JTAC is all about "cleared hot", when they couldn't be more wrong. 90% of the job is planning, 3% execution, and 7% rucking with Joe.

I would expect a JTAC going to the JFO course (both Army and Marines run them by the way) to do well; the JFO courseis meant to provide information to assist in provided data for type 2 and type 3 control. The Marine JTAC course at EWTGLANT or PAC is a bit a different and you have to be an Aviator, Combat Arms Officer or SNCO or Sgt Artillery Observer to attend.

But you highlight a fundamental flaw in AF logic, the ground commander owns ever bomb dropped in his zone. The JTAC and the aviator drops the ordnance in the ground commanders zone in the ground commanders name.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:40:49 PM EDT

[#13]

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Quoted:
I chickened out on switching from my guaranteed AFSC for another which was much cooler.

They said if changed my AFSC and washed out (and I would have) I would be sent to asphalt maintenance or security police.

Good call on my part.

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Quoted:

Unless a person is hell bent on being a cop, Security Forces = didn't score high enough on the asvab for any other job in the AF. With a few exceptions, the SF guys in my flight at BMT were some real window lickers. Makes me feel warm and toasty inside knowing that people that will be protecting the bases I'll be on needed a lesson to put a BCG in BFL first

I chickened out on switching from my guaranteed AFSC for another which was much cooler.

They said if changed my AFSC and washed out (and I would have) I would be sent to asphalt maintenance or security police.

Good call on my part.

What was/is your AFSC?

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:41:30 PM EDT

[#14]

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LOL...or better yet, go back to the OD green fatigues with full color patches and name tapes, etc. Always loved those.

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Why do Air Force personnel where tiger stripe jungle fatigues?

See it in the airports during my travels.

Last time I saw that pattern was on South Vietnamese officer in The Green Berets.

Not quite the same. Some new crap that cost more than they are worth. It was BDUs and "Chocolate Chips" back in the day for us.

I'm kinda just throwing some gas on the fire
Shouldn't they be asphalt colored or light blue ??

Just kidding guys and gals !

LOL...or better yet, go back to the OD green fatigues with full color patches and name tapes, etc. Always loved those.

I started with those, lol.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:43:50 PM EDT

[#15]

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Tell me about it!!! Chicks don't care about infantry. Professionals think "ASVAB waiver" or "you seem smart- couldn't you get a better MOS?"

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Hate to defend my prior my career field but yeah it is. A few units have been lucky enough to kick doors in the sandbox. Were we doing capture or kill stuff? No. Were we doing low level raids on weapons caches, small time terrorists and bomb makers? Yes.

Doesn't matter though, no matter how cool I try and make Security Forces sound...it's been ruined by tool bag prior and current Security Forces dudes in this thread.

Tell me about it!!! Chicks don't care about infantry. Professionals think "ASVAB waiver" or "you seem smart- couldn't you get a better MOS?"

Im a pile of tears right now.

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:48:52 PM EDT

[#16]

disregard
...

Posted: 8/18/2014 3:56:48 PM EDT

[#17]

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No. In best example, General Hagenbeck opted not to bring any of his TACPs attached to 10th Mountain for Operation Anaconda, officer or enlisted. Col. Longoria responsible for providing TACP support for the entire theater, felt this was a mistake and had to pull strings. In the end, Longoria's foresight, was right - and it became a big controversy for the general when the bomb smoke settled. To put it bluntly, I personally know a TACP that earned a silver star for his work in Anaconda, because air power was eventually so heavily relied upon.

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Unless he was CCT or PJ, he's a fucking dipshit. If he's referring to Security Forces, he should be laughed at and ridiculed until he runs home crying.

or TACP, even though they are not technically SOF

plus I think the weather guys are considered SOF, no?

Myself being a TACP, you graduate on the conventional side of the house, and then can try out for the SOF side of the house. We have guys that are assigned to the (real) SF Groups, and are also within 75th Ranger Regiment. Due to the high demand for JTACs, you can also simply get tasked to be aligned with a SOF unit in your AO even though not a "SOF TACP".

Our last fallen TACP was a Regiment TACP. He was a 100% full time SOF TACP.

http://sofrep.com/tacp/

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10268533_820887464590838_4569889852878957907_n.jpg?oh=de04dc528e665681d8b29e638cdf8c75&oe=547B5DA9&__gda__=1417593241_60d9a1067a6244ab9a48509b7e9e88d9

IIRC the "demand" for TACPs is a forced requirement, is it not?

No. In best example, General Hagenbeck opted not to bring any of his TACPs attached to 10th Mountain for Operation Anaconda, officer or enlisted. Col. Longoria responsible for providing TACP support for the entire theater, felt this was a mistake and had to pull strings. In the end, Longoria's foresight, was right - and it became a big controversy for the general when the bomb smoke settled. To put it bluntly, I personally know a TACP that earned a silver star for his work in Anaconda, because air power was eventually so heavily relied upon.

Went through the NCOA with a TACP that was in that operation and from the 10th IIRC. Lets just say he didn't spend much time on AF bases LOL. Every time he dropped the F-Bomb in class the instructors would cringe, but they didn't say much to him. Had some impressive slide shows from the mountains of Afghanistan, and some cool stories. I just wish they hadn't put him in charge of our PT sessions, he was one of those folks who loved to run. Strange looks at the dining facility due to the patches on his uniform.

Posted: 8/18/2014 4:07:56 PM EDT

[#18]

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You've got to get us more info on this guy. Ask him what his AFSC was and where he was stationed.

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I was in the Security Police in the Air National Guard back in the mid 80's to very early 90's. We only had 2 parts, LE (law enforcement, who did regular police/patrol stuff) and SS (Security Specialist, who did air base and flightline security.)

Never heard of PJ, CC or CCT. WTF are those?

PJs are the bad asses that go in and rescue downed pilots

He said that the regular troops and even spec ops teams would call them in when they needed "heavy firepower."

You've got to get us more info on this guy. Ask him what his AFSC was and where he was stationed.

Are the AC130 guys considered special ops.

Posted: 8/18/2014 4:16:05 PM EDT

[#19]

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No. In best example, General Hagenbeck opted not to bring any of his TACPs attached to 10th Mountain for Operation Anaconda, officer or enlisted. Col. Longoria responsible for providing TACP support for the entire theater, felt this was a mistake and had to pull strings. In the end, Longoria's foresight, was right - and it became a big controversy for the general when the bomb smoke settled. To put it bluntly, I personally know a TACP that earned a silver star for his work in Anaconda, because air power was eventually so heavily relied upon.

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Unless he was CCT or PJ, he's a fucking dipshit. If he's referring to Security Forces, he should be laughed at and ridiculed until he runs home crying.

or TACP, even though they are not technically SOF

plus I think the weather guys are considered SOF, no?

Myself being a TACP, you graduate on the conventional side of the house, and then can try out for the SOF side of the house. We have guys that are assigned to the (real) SF Groups, and are also within 75th Ranger Regiment. Due to the high demand for JTACs, you can also simply get tasked to be aligned with a SOF unit in your AO even though not a "SOF TACP".

Our last fallen TACP was a Regiment TACP. He was a 100% full time SOF TACP.

http://sofrep.com/tacp/

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/10268533_820887464590838_4569889852878957907_n.jpg?oh=de04dc528e665681d8b29e638cdf8c75&oe=547B5DA9&__gda__=1417593241_60d9a1067a6244ab9a48509b7e9e88d9

IIRC the "demand" for TACPs is a forced requirement, is it not?

No. In best example, General Hagenbeck opted not to bring any of his TACPs attached to 10th Mountain for Operation Anaconda, officer or enlisted. Col. Longoria responsible for providing TACP support for the entire theater, felt this was a mistake and had to pull strings. In the end, Longoria's foresight, was right - and it became a big controversy for the general when the bomb smoke settled. To put it bluntly, I personally know a TACP that earned a silver star for his work in Anaconda, because air power was eventually so heavily relied upon.

I'm not denigrating your service, or that of any SM who has fallen in combat, but why not just have the army and navy guys go to TACP school?

Posted: 8/18/2014 4:16:20 PM EDT

[#20]

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Are the AC130 guys considered special ops.

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I was in the Security Police in the Air National Guard back in the mid 80's to very early 90's. We only had 2 parts, LE (law enforcement, who did regular police/patrol stuff) and SS (Security Specialist, who did air base and flightline security.)

Never heard of PJ, CC or CCT. WTF are those?

PJs are the bad asses that go in and rescue downed pilots

He said that the regular troops and even spec ops teams would call them in when they needed "heavy firepower."

You've got to get us more info on this guy. Ask him what his AFSC was and where he was stationed.

Are the AC130 guys considered special ops.

Yes. They fall under Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC).

Posted: 8/18/2014 4:38:03 PM EDT

[#21]

Can somebody tell me if "combat breathing" is the real deal or is it a Range Time with Cory and Erica type thing.

Reminds me of this (skip to 02:10):

Genie

(Non paying members can't embed videos)

Posted: 8/18/2014 4:53:35 PM EDT

[#22]

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Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

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Where were these convoys going, and what did they consist of?

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:00:10 PM EDT

[#23]

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Where were these convoys going, and what did they consist of?

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Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Where were these convoys going, and what did they consist of?

I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:07:50 PM EDT

[#24]

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I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Where were these convoys going, and what did they consist of?

I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

In Lieu Of, ILOs missions are missions outside of that units normal mission essential task list

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:09:21 PM EDT

[#25]

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I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Where were these convoys going, and what did they consist of?

I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

Damn! I kinda feel bad for those guys.

I'd be pissed in their shoes.

Guess they paid for their GI Bills (ANG gets that right?)

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:16:12 PM EDT

[#26]

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I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Where were these convoys going, and what did they consist of?

I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why these are being called "Army" convoys. The only routes I knew of where airmen provided security were mostly civilian convoys providing log support to and between large joint service facilities - most with airfields, FWIW. If a 21st century first world military has to move stuff on the ground for lack of fixed wing cargo lift assets, I figure the least the AF could do is provide a couple of bodies to help secure the stuff everyone was using.

I've never heard of an Army military convoy using AF personnel for security. Heck, we turned our cooks into gunners for securing our logpacks.

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:16:51 PM EDT

[#27]

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You can't make this shit up.

Did I mention his "combat breathing" while at work. His cubicle neighbors thought someone was practicing pregnancy breathing techniques or having a panic attack.

This guy is apparently turning the offices space into a warzone.

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A co-worker mentioned, when she and him were in-processing for work he got on his knees and started looking around his chair during orientation. The speaker looked at him funny, chuckled and asked him if anything was wrong. He sat back down all serious like and said "sorry, force of habit, looking for devices."

You have to be trolling

You can't make this shit up.

Did I mention his "combat breathing" while at work. His cubicle neighbors thought someone was practicing pregnancy breathing techniques or having a panic attack.

This guy is apparently turning the offices space into a warzone.

Sounds like this guy isn't going to handle it well when his shit falls apart.

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:21:32 PM EDT

[#28]

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Sounds like this guy isn't going to handle it well when his shit falls apart.

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A co-worker mentioned, when she and him were in-processing for work he got on his knees and started looking around his chair during orientation. The speaker looked at him funny, chuckled and asked him if anything was wrong. He sat back down all serious like and said "sorry, force of habit, looking for devices."

You have to be trolling

You can't make this shit up.

Did I mention his "combat breathing" while at work. His cubicle neighbors thought someone was practicing pregnancy breathing techniques or having a panic attack.

This guy is apparently turning the offices space into a warzone.

Sounds like this guy isn't going to handle it well when his shit falls apart.

Its amusing now but I never wanted to hear that.

It was in the back of my head but now... disconcerting.

How much "shit" has AFSF been in?

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:23:24 PM EDT

[#29]

What have you been in OP?

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:32:22 PM EDT

[#30]

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What have you been in OP?

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Just back from the latrine. Still in the house.

Is that you?

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:38:54 PM EDT

[#31]

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I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why these are being called "Army" convoys. The only routes I knew of where airmen provided security were mostly civilian convoys providing log support to and between large joint service facilities - most with airfields, FWIW. If a 21st century first world military has to move stuff on the ground for lack of fixed wing cargo lift assets, I figure the least the AF could do is provide a couple of bodies to help secure the stuff everyone was using.

I've never heard of an Army military convoy being using AF personnel for security. Heck, we turned our cooks into gunners for securing our logpacks.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Where were these convoys going, and what did they consist of?

I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why these are being called "Army" convoys. The only routes I knew of where airmen provided security were mostly civilian convoys providing log support to and between large joint service facilities - most with airfields, FWIW. If a 21st century first world military has to move stuff on the ground for lack of fixed wing cargo lift assets, I figure the least the AF could do is provide a couple of bodies to help secure the stuff everyone was using.

I've never heard of an Army military convoy being using AF personnel for security. Heck, we turned our cooks into gunners for securing our logpacks.

Everything that sucks is Army. You fail to think strategically. You can almost feel the jointness oozing out of this thread.

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:45:07 PM EDT

[#32]

I was a Bradley crewmember, that pretty much makes me cav.

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:45:48 PM EDT

[#33]

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In Lieu Of, ILOs missions are missions outside of that units normal mission essential task list

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Where were these convoys going, and what did they consist of?

I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

In Lieu Of, ILOs missions are missions outside of that units normal mission essential task list

I understand that. Air Force guys "In Lieu Of" troops that traditionally fill those roles. It was good for most of them as they had a new found perspective on things. Some of them just weren't mentally prepared for being shot at and shooting back. But I guess that goes for quite a lot of folks, no matter the branch or specialty.

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:47:19 PM EDT

[#34]

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I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why these are being called "Army" convoys. The only routes I knew of where airmen provided security were mostly civilian convoys providing log support to and between large joint service facilities - most with airfields, FWIW. If a 21st century first world military has to move stuff on the ground for lack of fixed wing cargo lift assets, I figure the least the AF could do is provide a couple of bodies to help secure the stuff everyone was using.

I've never heard of an Army military convoy using AF personnel for security. Heck, we turned our cooks into gunners for securing our logpacks.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Well the favor was returned when the Army was crying that they didn't have enough bodies to defend their convoys and around 20% of our career field was doing the Army's job.

Where were these convoys going, and what did they consist of?

I know six ANG vehicle drivers that were tasked for an ILO tasking. They ran convoy security out of Spiecher for six months. These guys were trained as Air Force bus drivers. Culture shock isn't quite the term...

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of why these are being called "Army" convoys. The only routes I knew of where airmen provided security were mostly civilian convoys providing log support to and between large joint service facilities - most with airfields, FWIW. If a 21st century first world military has to move stuff on the ground for lack of fixed wing cargo lift assets, I figure the least the AF could do is provide a couple of bodies to help secure the stuff everyone was using.

I've never heard of an Army military convoy using AF personnel for security. Heck, we turned our cooks into gunners for securing our logpacks.

Fair enough. Jobs getting done by any other name, as far as I'm concerned.

Posted: 8/18/2014 5:59:38 PM EDT

[#35]

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Just back from the latrine. Still in the house.

Is that you?

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What have you been in OP?

Just back from the latrine. Still in the house.

Is that you?

This is why no one will ever take you seriously,

Posted: 8/18/2014 6:43:00 PM EDT

[#36]

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This is why no one will ever take you seriously,

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What have you been in OP?

Just back from the latrine. Still in the house.

Is that you?

This is why no one will ever take you seriously,

meh with a dash of lol

Posted: 8/19/2014 12:32:52 AM EDT

[#37]

I find it hilarious how the Air Force is full of pussies and retarded faggots yet 9 out of 10 people in the Air Guard used to be in the Army or Marines. I mean, if these branches of the military are so awesome and manly everybody must have stayed in until mandatory retirement and been forced off post at gunpoint with their 214 in hand, right?

Posted: 8/19/2014 12:41:46 AM EDT

[#38]

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Or an Airforce Ranger.

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SF as in special forces

or

SF as in Security Forces?

One is accurate by what he's saying, not saying he's military, but certain Security Forces jobs are much like infantry.

If he was claiming special forces....he's using the wrong terms: the AF has combat controllers and para-rescue.

Or an Airforce Ranger.

Yeah those do exist, going back to the 'Nam.

Posted: 8/19/2014 7:31:23 AM EDT

[#39]

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Yes. They fall under Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC).

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Quoted:
Are the AC130 guys considered special ops.

Yes. They fall under Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC).

Nope. They are just attached to AFSOC. I was attached to to AFSOC and SOC as well but I am not Special ops althought I might me special

Posted: 8/19/2014 7:35:18 AM EDT

[#40]

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Nope. They are just attached to AFSOC. I was attached to to AFSOC and SOC as well but I am not Special ops althought I might me special

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Are the AC130 guys considered special ops.

Yes. They fall under Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC).

Nope. They are just attached to AFSOC. I was attached to to AFSOC and SOC as well but I am not Special ops althought I might me special

I think the appropriate term is assigned

Posted: 8/19/2014 9:00:07 AM EDT

[#41]

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Yeah those do exist, going back to the 'Nam.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_10_2010/post-16479-1286724332.jpg

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Quoted:

Quoted:

SF as in special forces

or

SF as in Security Forces?

One is accurate by what he's saying, not saying he's military, but certain Security Forces jobs are much like infantry.

If he was claiming special forces....he's using the wrong terms: the AF has combat controllers and para-rescue.

Or an Airforce Ranger.

Yeah those do exist, going back to the 'Nam.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_10_2010/post-16479-1286724332.jpg

Where is his scroll?

I *heart* this thread.... Bahahaha!

Posted: 8/19/2014 9:20:38 AM EDT

[#42]

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What was/is your AFSC?

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Unless a person is hell bent on being a cop, Security Forces = didn't score high enough on the asvab for any other job in the AF. With a few exceptions, the SF guys in my flight at BMT were some real window lickers. Makes me feel warm and toasty inside knowing that people that will be protecting the bases I'll be on needed a lesson to put a BCG in BFL first

I chickened out on switching from my guaranteed AFSC for another which was much cooler.
They said if changed my AFSC and washed out (and I would have) I would be sent to asphalt maintenance or security police.
Good call on my part.

What was/is your AFSC?

This was in the late 80's. 30454/Ground Radio, which I had waited for a slot for months.
I qualified for basically whatever I wanted to do, so it wasn't a matter of ASVAB scores.

Thinking back, I don't even know if they could have made that prediction then and there. Maybe they just wanted to see if I was serious.
I traded initial assignments for what's called a Combat Control Squadron now. (728th TCS, Duke Field Fla.)
I got to shoot fun things and play like I was a soldier until I needed a burger or some air conditioning.

Posted: 8/19/2014 12:10:19 PM EDT

[#43]

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Where is his scroll?

I *heart* this thread.... Bahahaha!

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Quoted:

Quoted:
SF as in special forces

or

SF as in Security Forces?

One is accurate by what he's saying, not saying he's military, but certain Security Forces jobs are much like infantry.

If he was claiming special forces....he's using the wrong terms: the AF has combat controllers and para-rescue.

Or an Airforce Ranger.

Yeah those do exist, going back to the 'Nam.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_10_2010/post-16479-1286724332.jpg

Where is his scroll?

I *heart* this thread.... Bahahaha!

That stare just screams Ranger Death Blossom.

Posted: 8/19/2014 5:10:53 PM EDT

[#44]

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Fuck yeah! We'll just need a few hours.

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Unless he was CCT or PJ, he's a fucking dipshit. If he's referring to Security Forces, he should be laughed at and ridiculed until he runs jogs home crying.

This is AF...FIFY.

We can go run anytime. All I ask is you keep my pace and don't stop until I do.

can I play?

Fuck yeah! We'll just need a few hours.

From what I understand, Tweeter could be a Kenyan if Kenyans could actually run long distance.

Posted: 8/19/2014 5:30:33 PM EDT

[#45]

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From what I understand, Tweeter could be a Kenyan if Kenyans could actually run long distance.

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I chased an E5 from Cameroon for a couple miles today. Never did catch the little fucker.

Posted: 8/19/2014 7:10:14 PM EDT

[#46]

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I chased an E5 from Cameroon for a couple miles today. Never did catch the little fucker.

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From what I understand, Tweeter could be a Kenyan if Kenyans could actually run long distance.

I chased an E5 from Cameroon for a couple miles today. Never did catch the little fucker.

Don't run, it encourages cowardichhhnnnnnggggg

Posted: 8/19/2014 7:14:21 PM EDT

[#47]

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I find it hilarious how the Air Force is full of pussies and retarded faggots yet 9 out of 10 people in the Air Guard used to be in the Army or Marines. I mean, if these branches of the military are so awesome and manly everybody must have stayed in until mandatory retirement and been forced off post at gunpoint with their 214 in hand, right?

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By air guard, do you mean work at the air port?

Maybe the coastguard bicentennial reserve was all booked up.

Or maybe they were done serving their country, and just wanted to take care of themselves until retirement. Nothing wrong with that.