ATF says silencer mounts can no longer be sold individually? WTF? SILENCER GUYS GET IN HERE - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ATF says silencer mounts can no longer be sold individually? WTF? SILENCER GUYS GET IN HERE (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:27:41 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
So wait

If you have 3 AR15s and one silencer, you can only own one mount?

Based on the original info, no. You can own all the barrel mounts you want, but only one adapter per registered device.

Modular suppressors - which are mostly pistol-caliber cans - have mutliple interchangable mounting adapters for the can end of things. For example, a SWR Trident can be had with either a Nielson device unit (LCD), a threaded mount, or a 3-lug mount. And there are two pistons available for the LCD - one in 1/2x28 threads and one in 13.5mm threads (at least, I think there are only 2 different pistons for the T9 LCD).

What the original info states is that the BATFE is no longer allowing the sale (and presumably possession) of more than one of these mounting options per registered device. What's on the barrel (threads, FH, lugs, whatever) is still a separate issue.

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:28:52 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Aww crap, I knew I should not have put off getting a 3 lug for my Evo!

Never mind, it's $195. That's why I was putting it off.

.

I might have to hurry up and buy a threaded mount for my Trident, and I'm still waiting on the F4. (1/2x28 LCD is already with it and waiting too)

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:29:03 PM EDT

[#3]

Don't such rules have to be published in the Federal Registrar for X days before they take effect?

Kharn

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:29:12 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

if this is true, A2 flash hiders and threaded barrels would be considered illegal as both allow for the use of a suppressor...

thats the real problem.. I know there are suppressors out there that attach via a standard FH...

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:29:41 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

FUCK OBAMA
FUCK HOLDER

This is probably only the begining.

Yep, I hope you're flexible enough to bend over and touch your toes, cause that's what's about to happen. That and a big fat government cock up all our asses.

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:32:14 PM EDT

[#6]

So these YHM QD are illegal now?

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:36:11 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
This is getting stupid

What do you mean, "GETTING"?

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:36:54 PM EDT

[#8]

What a load

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:38:54 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk312/richmorgan67/308done022.jpg

So these YHM QD are illegal now?

Re-read the OP.

QD mounts, barrel threading, etc. are not yet in question.

What are included in this possible "crackdown" are the mounting module options for suppressors. That is, things like Uzi adapters, different Nielson device pistons, threading inserts, etc. Just the stuff that goes on the "can end" of the attachment.

ETA - Not that that is in any way better or less fucked-up.

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:39:35 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
3-lug adapters are not a "controlled" item...

Wrong. They are now.

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:49:23 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

YHM pulled the "offensive" parts from their website... if you goto YHM's site, you'll see that their QD phantom FH's are still for sale albeit out of stock...

ATF is too late with this bs, should have enforced it from the beginning. We are only as strong as the weakest link. Way to go YHM.

I'm hoping that other companies will have the balls to stand up to them.

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:50:09 PM EDT

[#12]

tick tock...

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:50:34 PM EDT

[#13]

You know I just went to YHM's site last night to look at the adapters because I might be getting another upper. I noticed they were all out of stock and I thought that was rediculous. Now I know why. WTF?!

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:50:35 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Aww crap, I knew I should not have put off getting a 3 lug for my Evo!

Never mind, it's $195. That's why I was putting it off.

.

I might have to hurry up and buy a threaded mount for my Trident, and I'm still waiting on the F4. (1/2x28 LCD is already with it and waiting too)

Can't you just slip in the metal cylinder that locks the booster? That's a cheap and easy way.

Posted: 7/16/2009 6:54:17 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

FUCK OBAMA
FUCK HOLDER

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:01:20 PM EDT

[#16]

Panic in 3...2...

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:06:25 PM EDT

[#17]

When did Congress pass this law? Was it in the Stimulus, Credit Card Bill, ...?

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:07:52 PM EDT

[#18]

So, let's say that someone wanted to buy an SWR Trident for an MP5 and they buy the model with the three lug adapter.

If they later decided they wanted to also use the same can on a Glock pistol, they couldn't just buy the threaded adapter for the Glock?

Would they have to buy a whole new SWR Trident just to get the threaded adapter?

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:10:42 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
3-lug adapters are not a "controlled" item...

They are doing this based on the "part or kit" portion of the definition of "silencer" that was added in the 80's.

Kind of like how a DIAS is a MG.

Except that if that comparison is going to be brought up, then I say this:

If I had a RR M16 - and no semi ARs, so we don't have to worry about constructive intent - then I would be able to legally keep a bunch of FA FCG parts around as spares. After all, without another gun to go in, they are useless. Just extra parts.

Here is your definition:

"The term 'firearm silencer' or 'firearm muffler' means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

I do not agree with this interperetation, but the current administration HATES FREEDOM AND GUNS, and they hate you and me.

BUt what about multiple mounts

The "mounts" serve also as flash suppressors or muzzle brakes...therefore they are not "intended only for use in [a suppressor] assembly".

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:11:06 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
So, let's say that someone wanted to buy an SWR Trident for an MP5 and they buy the model with the three lug adapter.

If they later decided they wanted to also use the same can on a Glock pistol, they couldn't just buy the threaded adapter for the Glock?

Would they have to buy a whole new SWR Trident just to get the threaded adapter?

...more tax stamp revenue and excise tax for the ATF.

Follow the money.

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:17:33 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

So, let's say that someone wanted to buy an SWR Trident for an MP5 and they buy the model with the three lug adapter.

If they later decided they wanted to also use the same can on a Glock pistol, they couldn't just buy the threaded adapter for the Glock?

Would they have to buy a whole new SWR Trident just to get the threaded adapter?

...more tax stamp revenue and excise tax for the ATF.

Follow the money.

It seems to me that if you bought all of the adaptors with the suppressor, and they all were serial numbered with the suppressor, then all of those "parts" would be part of the one suppressor you bought and covered by one tax stamp.

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:24:28 PM EDT

[#22]

Alone they do not make the firearm any quieter, they do not contain baffles. the part that they do aid with must be registered, I dont see how they can require it to be registered etc. They do alot of dumb things, so im sure it will end up heading that way.

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:33:39 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Don't such rules have to be published in the Federal Registrar for X days before they take effect?

Kharn

Usually the ATF just issues a new ruling or an Open Letter to FFL's when they make a decision like this.

So, the next question is... did YHM ask for a ruling, or did someone commit Larseny?

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:43:18 PM EDT

[#24]

well I feel safer

what a bunch of fucking clowns

Posted: 7/16/2009 7:54:42 PM EDT

[#25]

There's no way this would stick as is. Every A2 birdcage is a silencer mount with a Gemtech HALO. ATF is seriously overstepping their bounds if this is true.

Posted: 7/16/2009 8:43:11 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
There's no way this would stick as is. Every A2 birdcage is a silencer mount with a Gemtech HALO. ATF is seriously overstepping their bounds if this is true.

I don't see how an A2 would apply since it is NOT "any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

An A2 is not ONLY FOR USE IN SUCH ASSEMBLY OR FABRICATION, but a mount is...

Posted: 7/17/2009 3:48:02 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Don't such rules have to be published in the Federal Registrar for X days before they take effect?

Kharn

Usually the ATF just issues a new ruling or an Open Letter to FFL's when they make a decision like this.

So, the next question is... did YHM ask for a ruling, or did someone commit Larseny?

Audited.

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:21:56 AM EDT

[#28]

people seem to be content to "let sleeping dogs lie" when it comes to NFA stuff. well, if you take that approach, everything will eventually be illegal. the NFA needs to be challenged bit-by-bit, and everturned wherever possible. if we leave it alone, the ATF will just reinterpret until EVERYTHING is a mcahinegun, or "conversion device", or "silencer part", etc.

congress doesn't NEED to make new laws to get rid of guns. they have an unaccountable, anti-gun, organization that will act on their own in these matters, that nobody can challenge.

more importantly, NFA is "the tip of the spear" when it comes to gun rights. make MG's legal again, and nobody would ever have to worry about their semi-auto's getting banned. keep them ILLEGAL, and semi's will be next. once semi's are gone, pistols will be next. once pistols are illegal...

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:28:46 AM EDT

[#29]

So to sum up:

Flash hiders/threaded barrels are not illegal....yet.

ATF is talking about the thread adapters that go inside the silencer, such as what allows you to switch an Evo between 1/2x28 and the fixed barrel adapter. Is this correct?

All the cross-chatter in this post is getting confusing.

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:32:33 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There's no way this would stick as is. Every A2 birdcage is a silencer mount with a Gemtech HALO. ATF is seriously overstepping their bounds if this is true.

I don't see how an A2 would apply since it is NOT "any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

An A2 is not ONLY FOR USE IN SUCH ASSEMBLY OR FABRICATION, but a mount is...

It would certainly be very easy for them to argue that it is assuming this becomes precedent. Since when has the ATF ever made sense?

There's no way they are going to be able to find everyone who has an "adapter" like the YHM, Triple Tap Break, etc. Are people with 3-lug barrels going to have to register the barrel?

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:33:49 AM EDT

[#31]

double tap

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:36:02 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There's no way this would stick as is. Every A2 birdcage is a silencer mount with a Gemtech HALO. ATF is seriously overstepping their bounds if this is true.

I don't see how an A2 would apply since it is NOT "any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication."

An A2 is not ONLY FOR USE IN SUCH ASSEMBLY OR FABRICATION, but a mount is...

It would certainly be very easy for them to argue that it is assuming this becomes precedent. Since when has the ATF ever made sense?

There's no way they are going to be able to find everyone who has an "adapter" like the YHM, Triple Tap Break, etc. Are people with 3-lug barrels going to have to register the barrel?

interesting point. barrel lugs are pretty-much ONLY there to mount cans to...

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:42:47 AM EDT

[#33]

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:44:17 AM EDT

[#34]

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:48:29 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Don't such rules have to be published in the Federal Registrar for X days before they take effect?

Kharn

Usually the ATF just issues a new ruling or an Open Letter to FFL's when they make a decision like this.

So, the next question is... did YHM ask for a ruling, or did someone commit Larseny?

Audited.

Dayum. Guess will stick to threads for now.

<–– 07/02

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:50:16 AM EDT

[#36]

It isn't the external parts people! Its the internals of the can. The different manufacturers have been pushing the envelope for some time allowing the end user to basically be able to use the same can on differnt guns not buy having the guns all threaded alike, but litterally changing the piston out and in so changing the threads internally. This goes back to the ATF ruling that even owning a baffle outside of the can is considered a can all buy its self and thus putting you in possesion of another can.

It seems odd to most of you, but this is typical for the ATF. Hioefully now that so many people have had a taste of freedom :ie changing the cans around in different configurations" they will stand up and support the manufactures. It be nice if this little stunt drew enough attention that the suppressors got dropped from the NFA list all togther!

The flash hider parts are ok you aren't changing the can you are modifing the gun, and the can still attaches to the gun in the same mannor. Its only when you start changing the internal of the can that there becomes an issue!

Posted: 7/17/2009 4:57:21 AM EDT

[#37]

TAG

Posted: 7/17/2009 5:01:58 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
It isn't the external parts people! Its the internals of the can. The different manufacturers have been pushing the envelope for some time allowing the end user to basically be able to use the same can on differnt guns not buy having the guns all threaded alike, but litterally changing the piston out and in so changing the threads internally. This goes back to the ATF ruling that even owning a baffle outside of the can is considered a can all buy its self and thus putting you in possesion of another can.

It seems odd to most of you, but this is typical for the ATF. Hioefully now that so many people have had a taste of freedom :ie changing the cans around in different configurations" they will stand up and support the manufactures. It be nice if this little stunt drew enough attention that the suppressors got dropped from the NFA list all togther!

The flash hider parts are ok you aren't changing the can you are modifing the gun, and the can still attaches to the gun in the same mannor. Its only when you start changing the internal of the can that there becomes an issue!

So this is pretty much to destroy the 9mm pistol can market, since just about everyone makes a Trinity/Multimount-style can now. Way to go ATF.

Posted: 7/17/2009 5:04:05 AM EDT

[#39]

First surplus once fired brass, now this. I'm finding it hard to believe they are both "coincidence."

Off to buy a flash hider or two (yes I know they aren't part of this...yet).

Posted: 7/17/2009 5:07:42 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
So, let's say that someone wanted to buy an SWR Trident for an MP5 and they buy the model with the three lug adapter.

If they later decided they wanted to also use the same can on a Glock pistol, they couldn't just buy the threaded adapter for the Glock?

Would they have to buy a whole new SWR Trident just to get the threaded adapter?

They would have to get a thread on 3 lug adapter for the glock barrel…

They wont be able to get the thread adapter for the can…

Posted: 7/17/2009 5:27:34 AM EDT

[#41]

tag

Posted: 7/17/2009 5:57:47 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
It isn't the external parts people! Its the internals of the can. The different manufacturers have been pushing the envelope for some time allowing the end user to basically be able to use the same can on differnt guns not buy having the guns all threaded alike, but litterally changing the piston out and in so changing the threads internally. This goes back to the ATF ruling that even owning a baffle outside of the can is considered a can all buy its self and thus putting you in possesion of another can.

It seems odd to most of you, but this is typical for the ATF. Hioefully now that so many people have had a taste of freedom :ie changing the cans around in different configurations" they will stand up and support the manufactures. It be nice if this little stunt drew enough attention that the suppressors got dropped from the NFA list all togther!

The flash hider parts are ok you aren't changing the can you are modifing the gun, and the can still attaches to the gun in the same mannor. Its only when you start changing the internal of the can that there becomes an issue!

Ok, so what does all of this mean? I get that manufacturers can no longer sell them, but what about end users who already have spare thread adapters in their possession?