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Posted: 4/20/2012 1:19:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
After watching Ruby Ridge and Waco...I will say again. There will be no more free Wacos. Fucking this. 
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Posted: 4/20/2012 4:34:09 AM EDT
[#2]
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After watching Ruby Ridge and Waco...I will say again. There will be no more free Wacos. Fucking this. you sure about that? Now thanks to DHS and your tax money every federal agency is armed to the teeth. Fuck podunk shithole local agencies have fuckong APC's and crew served MG's McVeigh is a shitbag for what he did, I hope that he gets fucked in the ass with a piece of broken glass for eternity in hell. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:19:36 AM EDT
[#3]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. Would you run out into the field of fire of men like Horiuchi? Oh no-that was Glint you were seeing on the FLIR video. M16's don't look like that. IMO, every person involved in the raid deserves the death penalty. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:22:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Ya think there's any connection to the Oklahoma City bombing  ???
Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) was a United States Army veteran and security guard who detonated a truck bomb in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. Commonly referred to as the Oklahoma City Bombing, the attack killed 168 people and injured over 800 people,[3] and was the deadliest act of terrorism within the United States prior to the September 11, 2001 attacks.[3] McVeigh, a militia movement sympathizer, sought revenge against the federal government for its handling of the Waco Siege, which had ended in the deaths of 76 people exactly two years prior to the bombing, as well as for the Ruby Ridge incident in 1992. McVeigh hoped to inspire a revolt against what he considered to be a tyrannical federal government. He was convicted of 11 federal offenses and sentenced to death. His execution took place on June 11, 2001 at the Federal Correctional Complex in Terre Haute, Indiana. Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier were also convicted as conspirators in the plot. Patriot or not? http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/serial_killers/notorious/mcveigh/1a.jpg Just playing Devils advocate. If a couple of hayseeds with a rider truck full of fertilizer took down the OKC building, I'll suck your dick. 
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:25:18 AM EDT
[#5]
Fuck everyone involved in that shit. As if we needed another demonstration that the government is not on our side.
For a bit of levity: Bill Hicks outside Waco |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:26:44 AM EDT
[#6]
I remember sitting in the barracks lounge in Iwakuni Japan watching this on TV.
I felt sick to my stomach that the government I had enlisted under was doing this. "What the f*ck am I here for? To protect THIS crap?"  |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:28:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
i was a kid when it happened (31 now) and i remember it, but not very well. saw a documentary on it a while back. truly amazing how truly fucked up that whole thing was. i didn't realize it was possible to step on your dick (as an organization) that many steps in a row. crazy cult? sure. .gov freaking out and causing unnecessary deaths? a-yup I'm the same age and remember them pulling us out of class and having us watch it in the gymnasium. It wasn't until a lot later that I really understood what went down. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:30:23 AM EDT
[#8]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. They tried. IR footage shows them comming under fire when exiting. Too bad the folks didn't have the gumption to use the weapons that had stockpiled. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:40:54 AM EDT
[#9]
The most important lesson with the Waco assault is how far agents of the government are willing to go (even jubilantly) in attacking their own countrymen.
Never forget that. You will be given no quarter when the shit goes down. You will become their "plaything", until you are a dead, burned up husk, then they'll move on to the next... Count on that. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:41:15 AM EDT
[#10]
I find it hard to believe that 24 of those that dies were Brits
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:42:52 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: I find it hard to believe that 24 of those that dies were Brits I have always wondered about that myself. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:46:43 AM EDT
[#12]
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There is a name that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet. Someone who was very much so involved in this. Eric Holder. what is his place in the story ? I believe he was workign for the government at the time, but I do not know in what compacity. IIRC, he was Reno's pet. Hatchet man. Just like he is now for Obama. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:47:12 AM EDT
[#13]
I had just finished MSG School in Quantico, and was waiting to ship out to my first post when Waco happened. At the time, I was extremely niave, and believed that the people in that compound were proven hostile threats to the surrounding community. Now, I realize that it was something blown completely out of proportion by the government over a small tax issue.
I was on my second post when the Murrah Building bombing took place. A girl I went to high school with died in that bombing. The older sister of one of my childhood friends fell 3 stories, and only broke her ankle in that bombing. The Murrah Building is where I took my oath to defend the Constitution of the U.S. when I officially enlisted in the Marine Corps. My step mom called me on post to tell me that she heard a loud explosion (she lived about 12 miles as the crow flies from the blast). She told me that a gas main had blown up the Federal Building. I told her immediately that it was probably a truck bomb. My older brother had to help with the clean up of the site. In the following weeks, I had to evac the Embassy once, and fielded several bomb threats over the phone. In my prior post in New Delhi, I saw a pretty big terrorist bombing about a mile away from the Embassy. I think that one killed 20-something people. I felt the concussion of that blast a mile away, inside the Embassy. I think the terrorists used semtex on that one, probably equivalent to a satchel charge. The target of that bomb attack was an Indian political figure. Almost his entire protection detail died in that attack, but somehow he survived it. I think that was the 5th attempt on his life at that time? The older I get, the more I come to the conclusion that our government is more often than not, the problem.
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Posted: 4/20/2012 6:48:58 AM EDT
[#14]
I wonder if Lon is a member here.
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:00:19 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I wonder if Lon is a member here. If he ever came out, the "Fuck you Lon" thread would be longer than the "U Laugh, U Lose" thread..... |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:02:11 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:  Something tells me this thread won't make it to 10 pages.  And Waco was a horrible clusterf*ck of massive proportions. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:15:08 AM EDT
[#17]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. being gunned down or burned alive is not much of a choice.... That is a bald faced lie as is about 99% of the BS in this thread. The fire was started by the Davidians by choice. THey had weeks to leave and chose not to. THey killed themselves and their children by their own choice. Sad for the kids, but I hope the adults died in pain...slowly. Hell with cop killers and their supporters. ATF had a 100% legal warrant at the right location/time and in full uniform. Firing on them was murder, plain and simple. Extra crispy is about right. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:16:36 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Ya think there's any connection to the Oklahoma City bombing ???
Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) was a United States Army veteran and security guard who detonated a truck bomb in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. Commonly referred to as the Oklahoma City Bombing, the attack killed 168 people and injured over 800 people,[3] and was the deadliest act of terrorism within the United States prior to the September 11, 2001 attacks.[3] McVeigh, a militia movement sympathizer, sought revenge against the federal government for its handling of the Waco Siege, which had ended in the deaths of 76 people exactly two years prior to the bombing, as well as for the Ruby Ridge incident in 1992. McVeigh hoped to inspire a revolt against what he considered to be a tyrannical federal government. He was convicted of 11 federal offenses and sentenced to death. His execution took place on June 11, 2001 at the Federal Correctional Complex in Terre Haute, Indiana. Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier were also convicted as conspirators in the plot. Patriot or not? http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/serial_killers/notorious/mcveigh/1a.jpg Just playing Devils advocate. Yeah, just "Playing"...sort of like the preschool aged children he murdered at the building he blew up were just playing in their daycare. You need help. Thats just sick. There is NOTHING patriotic about what that man did. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:16:39 AM EDT
[#19]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. Would you run out into the field of fire of men like Horiuchi? Sure. If unarmed with your hands in the air, you would not have been shot. (Not supporting what the goverment did, however.) |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:17:57 AM EDT
[#20]
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Ya think there's any connection to the Oklahoma City bombing ???
Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) was a United States Army veteran and security guard who detonated a truck bomb in front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995. Commonly referred to as the Oklahoma City Bombing, the attack killed 168 people and injured over 800 people,[3] and was the deadliest act of terrorism within the United States prior to the September 11, 2001 attacks.[3] McVeigh, a militia movement sympathizer, sought revenge against the federal government for its handling of the Waco Siege, which had ended in the deaths of 76 people exactly two years prior to the bombing, as well as for the Ruby Ridge incident in 1992. McVeigh hoped to inspire a revolt against what he considered to be a tyrannical federal government. He was convicted of 11 federal offenses and sentenced to death. His execution took place on June 11, 2001 at the Federal Correctional Complex in Terre Haute, Indiana. Terry Nichols and Michael Fortier were also convicted as conspirators in the plot. Patriot or not? http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/photos/serial_killers/notorious/mcveigh/1a.jpg Just playing Devils advocate. Not if you target the innocent like .GOV. Children are not viable targets. You mean like the US Government does. How many woman and children has this Government killed???? War is war. This deserves a ban if anything ever did. You just posted in support of terrorists murdering children. Seriously...that is sick. Beyond sick... 
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:20:59 AM EDT
[#21]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. being gunned down or burned alive is not much of a choice.... That is a bald faced lie as is about 99% of the BS in this thread. The fire was started by the Davidians by choice. THey had weeks to leave and chose not to. THey killed themselves and their children by their own choice. Sad for the kids, but I hope the adults died in pain...slowly. Hell with cop killers and their supporters. ATF had a 100% legal warrant at the right location/time and in full uniform. Firing on them was murder, plain and simple. Extra crispy is about right. It's disturbing to me that you get a free pass saying that the Davidians holing up for their own safety should be burned extra crispy, but if I turn the tables and tell you that the feds deserve the same for their conduct I risk getting banned for alluding to the murder of federal agents. Talk about a double standard. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:21:26 AM EDT
[#22]
As with Ruby Ridge, Waco was an experiment in just how much the American public would put up with.
It turns out, not very much of this kind of shit. Two very un-popular operations. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:22:38 AM EDT
[#23]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. Would you run out into the field of fire of men like Horiuchi? Sure. If unarmed with your hands in the air, you would not have been shot. (Not supporting what the goverment did, however.) I'm not real sure they wouldn't have been shot. But, this is armchair quarterbacking at this point.... |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:23:06 AM EDT
[#24]
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There is a name that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet. Someone who was very much so involved in this. Eric Holder. That is correct. Soon after the disaster, I heard Waco TX people say the Feds could have taken David Koresh anytime they wanted to when he was downtown, away from the compound. Koresh was known very well by the sheriff. The sheriff was told to mind his own business. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:24:27 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. being gunned down or burned alive is not much of a choice.... That is a bald faced lie as is about 99% of the BS in this thread. The fire was started by the Davidians by choice. THey had weeks to leave and chose not to. THey killed themselves and their children by their own choice. Sad for the kids, but I hope the adults died in pain...slowly. Hell with cop killers and their supporters. ATF had a 100% legal warrant at the right location/time and in full uniform. Firing on them was murder, plain and simple. Extra crispy is about right. Save it. You can't argue with crazy. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:26:45 AM EDT
[#26]
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You know it's going to get ugly when a Moderator (Site Staff) posts this animated emoticon. 
and oh yeah, to those ready to lay blame solely at the feet of the LEO's and Agencies, don't forget about that child molesting fucktard (Koresh) being responsible for the death of those kids! never mind |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:27:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: You mean like the US Government does. How many woman and children has this Government killed???? War is war. This deserves a ban if anything ever did. You just posted in support of terrorists murdering children. Seriously...that is sick. Beyond sick... Feds taking trophy pics over "crispy" Davidians is pretty sick too. Seriously..... |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:29:12 AM EDT
[#28]
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You know it's going to get ugly when a Moderator (Site Staff) posts this animated emoticon.
and oh yeah, to those ready to lay blame solely at the feet of the LEO's and Agencies, don't forget about that child molesting fucktard (Koresh) being responsible for the death of those kids! Evidence, please. I agree that he was a fuck-head...somewhat. The whole thing of molesting children was shown to be false, IIRC. That aside, they could have picked him up at any time, without confrontation. Yet, they chose a confrontation....curiously, at the same time the Ruby Ridge thing was hitting the courts...oh...btw, how did that go? So...prove it. Having sex with 14yr old girls because you duped their parents into believing you were the 2nd coming, thus giving you "permission" is still child molesting in my book, it may be ok in yours but it's fucked up in mine, and that piece of shit should have fried for what he did to those young girls. all he is asking for is proof, not your opinion on child molesters. If you have proof, post it. common knowledge, many members including "ex members" of the Dividians claimed this, hell! even Wikipedia states this! 
Edit: Surely you've seen the numerous interviews (60 minutes as well as other shows?) where members who were both pro and con Koresh made similar claims as to the marriages with the 14yr old girls? You also know that the folks claiming koresh was molesting kids wanted to gain control of the sect by any means, don't you? The fuckstick and his wife on 60 min. was, I believe, to have been proven a liar. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:29:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: You know about the unarmed guy they shot in the back and left outside for dogs to chew on right? Look up how Mike Schroeder died. Quoted: Quoted: Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. Would you run out into the field of fire of men like Horiuchi? Sure. If unarmed with your hands in the air, you would not have been shot. (Not supporting what the goverment did, however.) |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:30:01 AM EDT
[#30]
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I'm still upset on how it was handled. as well you should, but for those blaming only the alphabet agencies, they need to remember that a child molesting motherfucker who thought he was Jesus, was primarily responsible for the deaths of those children! sure, there's enough blame to go around, but let's not forget that a fucked up in the head child molester is at the root! Agreed. Poor situation all the way around. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:30:25 AM EDT
[#31]
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You know about the unarmed guy they shot in the back and left outside for dogs to chew on right?
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. Would you run out into the field of fire of men like Horiuchi? Sure. If unarmed with your hands in the air, you would not have been shot. (Not supporting what the goverment did, however.) No, that didn't happen. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:30:35 AM EDT
[#32]
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It was my first day of work at a new job, the owner of the company had it on TV and clapped and cheered about the same time that photo was taken. He was over the top happy about the gov putting an end to it. It was sickening. It was also my last day at that job. I was at work all day, first time I heard anything about it was at 7:30pm at an auto-parts store where the guy behind the counter had it on TV. He was the same way as your boss. I cannot understand such people. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:32:23 AM EDT
[#33]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. Would you run out into the field of fire of men like Horiuchi? Sure. If unarmed with your hands in the air, you would not have been shot. (Not supporting what the goverment did, however.) I'd rather get shot than burn to death any day of the week. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:34:24 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: Even PBS admits he was killed. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/waco/timeline.html If you have evidence to the contrary of what I stated I am very open to viewing itQuoted: You know about the unarmed guy they shot in the back and left outside for dogs to chew on right? No, that didn't happen.  . |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:37:01 AM EDT
[#35]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. being gunned down or burned alive is not much of a choice.... That is a bald faced lie as is about 99% of the BS in this thread. The fire was started by the Davidians by choice. THey had weeks to leave and chose not to. THey killed themselves and their children by their own choice. Sad for the kids, but I hope the adults died in pain...slowly. Hell with cop killers and their supporters. ATF had a 100% legal warrant at the right location/time and in full uniform. Firing on them was murder, plain and simple. Extra crispy is about right. So legal warrants are always issued by having an armed helo fire down through the roof of a building killing an unarmed old man praying and wounding several other unarmed people all before a knock at the door or announcement of a warrant being served ? You sir, and i use the sir lightly, are just as guilty of murder as the people that attacked and killed 17 little children and several unarmed men & women in Waco. You shot first, you drew first blood ! The whole thing could have been handled professionally and peacefully by arresting Koresh in town or going there when he invited you but you chose to act like a tough guy. It will NEVER happen again i can tell you that ! |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:39:06 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Seriously...that is sick. Beyond sick... How bout the pictures of these fucking heros? Sick?    |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:39:07 AM EDT
[#37]
All this brings to mind something that I've been wondering about. Given the fiscal bind our nation is in, what will happen if/when there is no longer any funding to support the livlihood of these agents? I know the government is doing everything it possibly can to extend/pretend the facade that "everything is fine", can go on for (apparently) a very long time. What happens when one day these agents show up to work, and their agency says, "Sorry, we don't have the money for you anymore, here's your pink slip." Will it be like the former Soviet Union? Wild west?
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:42:29 AM EDT
[#38]
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I'm surprised there hasn't been a "Waco" under Eric Holder's watch. Fuck be upon his eternal sole. Didn't they raid a weirdo Mormon-ish cult not too long ago? Texas officials raided the YFZ Ranch a while back, which was established by a polygamist group which was also apparently engaging in some underage marriages. Texas made some mistakes in how they handled it, but managed to avoid the violence we saw at Waco. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:47:54 AM EDT
[#39]
Personally, I'm of the mindset that being "molested" is probably preferable to being burned alive before I'm even 18 years old, but hey, that's just me.
"We had to incinerate the children to save them"
But I doubt anyone was "molested" in that compound. It's just too convenient, and it's obvious to many of us that the "child molestation" accusation was deliberately thrown out there to generate public support by a public that probably wasn't going to be looking too deeply into the raid other than listening to the evening news once or twice. I mean, who could argue against raiding a compound actively engaged in *child molestation*? Besides, I thought that was the realm of CPS, and not BATF. Kind of reminds me of the obligatory "....and the suspect that was arrested and charged with (insert federal firearms violation here) was also found to have child pornography on his computer...." |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:48:37 AM EDT
[#40]
This "extra crispy" is for you FedDC. A 10 year old boy's body from the Waco compound. His body is contorted from the mass amount of CS gas pumped into the building. Then he was burned alive. Here's to hoping all Statists don't make it home one day.
How about we don't randomly insert pics like that...VA-gunnut |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:50:49 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Personally, I'm of the mindset that being "molested" is probably preferable to being burned alive before I'm even 18 years old, but hey, that's just me. "We had to incinerate the children to save them"
But I doubt anyone was "molested" in that compound. It's just too convenient, and it's obvious to many of us that the "child molestation" accusation was deliberately thrown out there to generate public support by a public that probably wasn't going to be looking too deeply into the raid other than listening to the evening news once or twice. I mean, who could argue against raiding a compound actively engaged in *child molestation*? Besides, I thought that was the realm of CPS, and not BATF. Kind of reminds me of the obligatory "....and the suspect that was arrested and charged with (insert federal firearms violation here) was also found to have child pornography on his computer...." Exactly. It is the Federal equivalent of calling somebody a "racist" at this point... |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:53:15 AM EDT
[#42]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. being gunned down or burned alive is not much of a choice.... That is a bald faced lie as is about 99% of the BS in this thread. The fire was started by the Davidians by choice. THey had weeks to leave and chose not to. THey killed themselves and their children by their own choice. Sad for the kids, but I hope the adults died in pain...slowly. Hell with cop killers and their supporters. ATF had a 100% legal warrant at the right location/time and in full uniform. Firing on them was murder, plain and simple. Extra crispy is about right. mind telling us why the BATFE had the media there to witness? mind telling us why the didn't pick up Koresh on one of his daily visits to town? if i remember correctly, wasn't it you who said in one of the previous threads that you were there? |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:54:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Innocence was tragically lost that day as well as the lives of ATF agents.
Lesson for ATF agents, don't work under Eric Holder.
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:54:47 AM EDT
[#44]
Bunch of nutjobs fired on agents serving a warrant and martyred themselves (and their children)?
Tragic, stupid, entirely the fault of the Davidians. That people try to turn those idiots into "freedom fighters" is patently absurd. But hey, nutjobs do nutty things... |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:56:43 AM EDT
[#45]
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You know about the unarmed guy they shot in the back and left outside for dogs to chew on right? Look up how Mike Schroeder died.
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. Would you run out into the field of fire of men like Horiuchi? Sure. If unarmed with your hands in the air, you would not have been shot. (Not supporting what the goverment did, however.) And two in the head. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:59:13 AM EDT
[#46]
Concerning Lon, here's one of my favorite quotes from Jeff Cooper. You can find it on any of the blogs he posted his articles on.
"The Federal agent who shot Vicki Weaver in the face, deliberately, while she was unarmed and holding her child is named Lon Horiuchi. Remember that name. He is still walking around loose. That man must eventually pay for his crime, here or hereafter. Lon Horiuchi." Y'all will abandon Paypal because they refuse to do gun transactions, but there's no problem with HS Precision when they have this sick degenerate as an ad prop? |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 7:59:26 AM EDT
[#47]
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After watching Ruby Ridge and Waco...I will say again. There will be no more free Wacos. I think McVeigh answered that already. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 8:00:38 AM EDT
[#48]
Waco was a tragedy in more ways than one.
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Posted: 4/20/2012 8:01:07 AM EDT
[#49]
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Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. being gunned down or burned alive is not much of a choice.... That is a bald faced lie as is about 99% of the BS in this thread. The fire was started by the Davidians by choice. THey had weeks to leave and chose not to. THey killed themselves and their children by their own choice. Sad for the kids, but I hope the adults died in pain...slowly. Hell with cop killers and their supporters. ATF had a 100% legal warrant at the right location/time and in full uniform. Firing on them was murder, plain and simple. Extra crispy is about right. A masterpiece of understatement, if there ever was one. The fact that the warrant was "100% legal" because the all the T's were crossed and the I's were dotted doesn't make it moral or "right". I read years ago that the justification for the warrant was full of deliberate misinformation. In fact, the whole "drug lab" routine thrown out there so the feds could use helos and APCs was found to be false, IIRC. I don't think most people would justify shooting at LE under most circumstances, but if you come under fire out of the blue, and people around you are bleeding or dead from gun shot wounds-a very traumatic event to witness with your own eyes-while you yourself are under heavy small arms fire, don't discount the survival instinct to fire back to preserve your own life no matter who it is shooting at you. Not all LE are angels, as has been proven in the past where innocent life was lost at the hands of those who were sworn to protect the very innocent that died. |
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Posted: 4/20/2012 8:03:16 AM EDT
[#50]
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Quoted:
Why didn't anyone run out once thefire started? That has always bothered me. Would you run out into the field of fire of men like Horiuchi? Sure. If unarmed with your hands in the air, you would not have been shot. (Not supporting what the goverment did, however.) Vicky Weaver might disagree with you on that one. |
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