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Posted: 7/1/2015 2:04:23 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 7/1/2015 2:18:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryI loved that line...hell, the entire conversation. 
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Posted: 7/1/2015 2:19:05 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm hoping good things for episode 3 or I'm out.
The writing is god awful compared to the first. . . . the edgy chick who likes anal and throwing knives, the self hating gay guy. . the show is like an SNL parody to its former self. The first season was a masterful piece of art, this season it's like watching a R rated version of CSI Miami. It's too bad they butchered the brand, I was really looking forward to another season but the writing and the acting are both gone. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 2:33:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Is anyone having a difficult time focusing on anything besides Rachel McAdams flicking the bean to DP porn?
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Posted: 7/1/2015 3:07:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You merely adopted the obscured porn; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see 1080p internet porn until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING! LOL excellent |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 4:01:21 PM EDT
[#6]
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Is anyone having a difficult time focusing on anything besides Rachel McAdams flicking the bean to DP porn? yeah, it's kind of the only story arc I'm remotely interested in at this time. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 4:03:34 PM EDT
[#7]
what did she want to do with her man again that freaked him out? i didnt get that part.
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Posted: 7/1/2015 4:08:43 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: what did she want to do with her man again that freaked him out? i didnt get that part. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 4:14:24 PM EDT
[#9]
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what did she want to do with her man again that freaked him out? i didnt get that part. unspecified so far--that's the mystery of her character, and i doubt it will ever be revealed. the point is being made that she has a fixation with sex that is likely degrading in some way. it makes sense when you consider that her sister got into actual porn. some have speculated pegging, which is reasonable (as an opposite to submission). i would be more inclined to believe something like her being choked or hit. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 4:17:06 PM EDT
[#10]
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unspecified so far--that's the mystery of her character, and i doubt it will ever be revealed. the point is being made that she has a fixation with sex that is likely degrading in some way. it makes sense when you consider that her sister got into actual porn. some have speculated pegging, which is reasonable (as an opposite to submission). i would be more inclined to believe something like her being choked or hit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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what did she want to do with her man again that freaked him out? i didnt get that part. unspecified so far--that's the mystery of her character, and i doubt it will ever be revealed. the point is being made that she has a fixation with sex that is likely degrading in some way. it makes sense when you consider that her sister got into actual porn. some have speculated pegging, which is reasonable (as an opposite to submission). i would be more inclined to believe something like her being choked or hit. If her dildo/strapon collection is like her weapon collection no wonder the guy was freaked out... |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 5:02:44 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 7/1/2015 5:19:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is anyone having a difficult time focusing on anything besides Rachel McAdams flicking the bean to DP porn? i could stand to watch a little more...and her sister too |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 5:22:45 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm guessing McAdams is a submissive, and was somehow abused as a child (possibly by Ser Meryn Trant). The sister does pr0n, and other members of her commune committed suicide or are in jail.
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Posted: 7/1/2015 5:23:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yeah, it's kind of the only story arc I'm remotely interested in at this time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is anyone having a difficult time focusing on anything besides Rachel McAdams flicking the bean to DP porn? yeah, it's kind of the only story arc I'm remotely interested in at this time. Honestly, I'd say its worthy of a spinoff. An entire season dedicated to McAdams' character's sexual fetishes and masturbatory fantasies. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 5:50:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Notice on display with her knife collection is about 5 rolls of duct tape.
#1. What chick has 5 rolls of duct tape to begin with. I don't even have 5 rolls of duct tape and I have complete workshop in my garage #2. Who keeps duct tape with their knife collection. Most people keep it in a utility drawer or whatever. #3. She seems pretty squared away with her carry methods and sheaths, etc. So I don't think she's pulling a Dirty Harry and taping switchblades to her ankle. And even if she was one roll should last like an entire year. So yeah. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 6:22:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Why does everyone think the Chips dude is gay? I thought he was just crazy.
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Posted: 7/1/2015 6:48:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does everyone think the Chips dude is gay? I thought he was just crazy. His tendency toward violent overreaction when hit on by a gay guy, maybe? His need for pecker pills with a hot GF? A guy that age would not normally lack for pecker power in that circumstance. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 6:55:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
His tendency toward violent overreaction when hit on by a gay guy, maybe? His need for pecker pills with a hot GF? A guy that age would not normally lack for pecker power in that circumstance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why does everyone think the Chips dude is gay? I thought he was just crazy. His tendency toward violent overreaction when hit on by a gay guy, maybe? His need for pecker pills with a hot GF? A guy that age would not normally lack for pecker power in that circumstance. I missed the overreaction. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 6:59:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I missed the overreaction. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why does everyone think the Chips dude is gay? I thought he was just crazy. His tendency toward violent overreaction when hit on by a gay guy, maybe? His need for pecker pills with a hot GF? A guy that age would not normally lack for pecker power in that circumstance. I missed the overreaction. Him staring longingly off his porch at the cosplay guys dressed skimpily as angles? Him staring longingly at the male prostitute getting out of the car? |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 7:05:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm hoping good things for episode 3 or I'm out. The writing is god awful compared to the first. . . . the edgy chick who likes anal and throwing knives, the self hating gay guy. . the show is like an SNL parody to its former self. The first season was a masterful piece of art, this season it's like watching a R rated version of CSI Miami. It's too bad they butchered the brand, I was really looking forward to another season but the writing and the acting are both gone. this guy gets it. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 7:34:23 PM EDT
[#21]
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How could you tell? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't know about everybody else, but so far i'm bored to tears by this season. The first season was interesting right from the start. While watching this season I find myself looking at the clock and wondering when something is going to happen. I reckon i'll give it one more episode to turn into something worth watching, but only because of how good S1 was. I'm sticking around until we get to the bottom of the female cops's buttsecks fetish. she was watching blurred-out DP action on her laptop in the hotel room when her partner called. she likes it in the pooper, obviously; I'm sure there's some reason as to why she does. How could you tell? I have special vision, the kind that let me see bush on "I Dream of Jeannie" if I sat really close to the TV. 
actually, the DP wasn't all that blurred; I was pretty surprised to see it. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 7:38:38 PM EDT
[#22]
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The first episode Frank showed Ray a picture of him. He had dark brown hair. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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OK so we meet Farrell's ex and she's not a redhead. The photo of the guy Vaughn was pinning the rape to was dark haired and looked Latino. The fat bastard kid is definitely not Farrell's and is definitely a ginger. The only other ginger we've seen so far is that creepy lurch dude who's Vaughn's right hand man... We haven't seen the dude Farrell killed, though. yep. he looked latino. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 7:54:40 PM EDT
[#23]
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Him staring longingly off his porch at the cosplay guys dressed skimpily as angles? Him staring longingly at the male prostitute getting out of the car? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why does everyone think the Chips dude is gay? I thought he was just crazy. His tendency toward violent overreaction when hit on by a gay guy, maybe? His need for pecker pills with a hot GF? A guy that age would not normally lack for pecker power in that circumstance. I missed the overreaction. Him staring longingly off his porch at the cosplay guys dressed skimpily as angles? Him staring longingly at the male prostitute getting out of the car? Now that you mention it, he does seem gay. Guess I was trying to figure out the female freaky cop. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:28:48 PM EDT
[#24]
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Now that you mention it, he does seem gay. Guess I was trying to figure out the female freaky cop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why does everyone think the Chips dude is gay? I thought he was just crazy. His tendency toward violent overreaction when hit on by a gay guy, maybe? His need for pecker pills with a hot GF? A guy that age would not normally lack for pecker power in that circumstance. I missed the overreaction. Him staring longingly off his porch at the cosplay guys dressed skimpily as angles? Him staring longingly at the male prostitute getting out of the car? Now that you mention it, he does seem gay. Guess I was trying to figure out the female freaky cop. you can quit figuring. she wants it in the ass. a lot. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:34:13 PM EDT
[#25]
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you can quit figuring. she wants it in the ass. a lot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Guess I was trying to figure out the female freaky cop. you can quit figuring. she wants it in the ass. a lot. I doubt that guy she was fucking would have reacted the way he did if it was something as tame as that. Now HER wanting it in HIS ass would warrant such a reaction on his part.
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Posted: 7/1/2015 8:37:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt that guy she was fucking would have reacted the way he did if it was something as tame as that. Now HER wanting it in HIS ass would warrant such a reaction on his part.
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Guess I was trying to figure out the female freaky cop. you can quit figuring. she wants it in the ass. a lot. I doubt that guy she was fucking would have reacted the way he did if it was something as tame as that. Now HER wanting it in HIS ass would warrant such a reaction on his part.
hardly. he was asking "do you do that sort of thing" ? the reaction would have been more negative if she was trying to dildo his ass. then again, it IS California... |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 9:02:58 PM EDT
[#27]
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hardly. he was asking "do you do that sort of thing" ? the reaction would have been more negative if she was trying to dildo his ass. then again, it IS California... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Guess I was trying to figure out the female freaky cop. you can quit figuring. she wants it in the ass. a lot. I doubt that guy she was fucking would have reacted the way he did if it was something as tame as that. Now HER wanting it in HIS ass would warrant such a reaction on his part.
hardly. he was asking "do you do that sort of thing" ? the reaction would have been more negative if she was trying to dildo his ass. then again, it IS California... she didn't want it in the pooper. she wanted choked, slapped, threatened, hurt, used and made to feel like a used kleenex whose only worth was how much of his cum she soaked up. bitch gets off on shit that makes anal look bland. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 9:04:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
hardly. he was asking "do you do that sort of thing" ? the reaction would have been more negative if she was trying to dildo his ass. then again, it IS California... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Guess I was trying to figure out the female freaky cop. you can quit figuring. she wants it in the ass. a lot. I doubt that guy she was fucking would have reacted the way he did if it was something as tame as that. Now HER wanting it in HIS ass would warrant such a reaction on his part.
hardly. he was asking "do you do that sort of thing" ? the reaction would have been more negative if she was trying to dildo his ass. then again, it IS California... I just don't think a 30 something woman asking a 30 something man to fuck her in the ass would warrant the type of conversation they had. And like I said earlier: start a thread asking "would you let Rachel McAdams peg you if she gave you a reach around" and you'll probably get at least 1/3 of GD voting "yes."
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Posted: 7/1/2015 10:34:20 PM EDT
[#29]
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Taylor Kitsch was Mike Murphy in Lone Survivor and he did a hell of a job. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Soooooo... Hollywood is telling us a man who raised by a single, overbearing mother turned out gay? LOL. Talk about reinforcing stereotypes. The Chippie's involvement, reassignment, and psychological issues are beyond belief. Would have never passed a psych to get hired, would have never been standing over a dead body he found on the side of the road, and would NEVER be assigned to a murder/kidnap/corruption investigation. I wonder why his character had to be written in? Taylor Kitsch was Mike Murphy in Lone Survivor and he did a hell of a job. Detective Elvis Ilinca is "Betty Blue" from The Unit |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 10:41:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
she didn't want it in the pooper. she wanted choked, slapped, threatened, hurt, used and made to feel like a used kleenex whose only worth was how much of his cum she soaked up. bitch gets off on shit that makes anal look bland. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Guess I was trying to figure out the female freaky cop. you can quit figuring. she wants it in the ass. a lot. I doubt that guy she was fucking would have reacted the way he did if it was something as tame as that. Now HER wanting it in HIS ass would warrant such a reaction on his part.
hardly. he was asking "do you do that sort of thing" ? the reaction would have been more negative if she was trying to dildo his ass. then again, it IS California... she didn't want it in the pooper. she wanted choked, slapped, threatened, hurt, used and made to feel like a used kleenex whose only worth was how much of his cum she soaked up. bitch gets off on shit that makes anal look bland. 
Said it once, I'll say it a bazillion times. Smart move making Rachel a sex freak. It won't make the show as good as season 1, but I'll watch. Oh ya I'll watch, waiting for the inevitable orgy/S&M/etc scene. |
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Posted: 7/1/2015 11:06:04 PM EDT
[#31]
NEW THEORY:
In the Hollywood camera house, there is a row of masks on the wall (donkey, lionesque, etc), except there is one missing--the Black Eagle. So the Hollywood house is either his house or he operates there. Also, Dr. Pitlor had a black eagle painting on the wall in his office. Discuss. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 6:48:32 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NEW THEORY: In the Hollywood camera house, there is a row of masks on the wall (donkey, lionesque, etc), except there is one missing--the Black Eagle. So the Hollywood house is either his house or he operates there. Also, Dr. Pitlor had a black eagle painting on the wall in his office. Discuss. Second thing i noticed, after the caddy outside was the heads on the wall, the raven head dude interests me, not as much as the yellow king though. I do not think that he lives or even operates there, but i think he must be connected to these people somehow to know ray was going to be there. Maybe is posed as a sex freak to get into the house with casper, used the raven head as some weird ass roleplaying, killed casper then adopted the head as his persona. I dont know
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Posted: 7/2/2015 9:11:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
she didn't want it in the pooper. she wanted choked, slapped, threatened, hurt, used and made to feel like a used kleenex whose only worth was how much of his cum she soaked up. bitch gets off on shit that makes anal look bland. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Guess I was trying to figure out the female freaky cop. you can quit figuring. she wants it in the ass. a lot. I doubt that guy she was fucking would have reacted the way he did if it was something as tame as that. Now HER wanting it in HIS ass would warrant such a reaction on his part.
hardly. he was asking "do you do that sort of thing" ? the reaction would have been more negative if she was trying to dildo his ass. then again, it IS California... she didn't want it in the pooper. she wanted choked, slapped, threatened, hurt, used and made to feel like a used kleenex whose only worth was how much of his cum she soaked up. bitch gets off on shit that makes anal look bland. I don't agree, based on the DP porn viewing, but I have to admit; you make a hell of a compelling point. 
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Posted: 7/2/2015 5:37:30 PM EDT
[#34]
I think the key to finding out who the Raven is, lies in the theme song.
"I live amongst you.... well disguised".... At first I was thinking maybe Vince Vaughn was the killer & he's got a separate split personality, but I can't go with that after serious thought. I can however, go along with the idea that his stupid assistant is the Raven.
He would know Casper had the money, know where the house would be... know that Vicarro is the one whom Vaughn would send to the house alone once he found out about it... And as the Asian woman in "Daredevil" said : "The smart man is the one who plays the fool." |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 5:43:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Just watched first season. Brilliant. The juxtaposition between Matthew and Woody was great.
And Lili and Michelle naked are  I also figured out, correctly, the lawn mower guy did it the whole time. Wasn't until the black cops stopped to ask him that I knew I was correct (which was confirmed 30 seconds later.) Very fun watch.
So far, second season sucks. Vince can't act (I like wedding crashers because it is silly, definitely not for the acting.) There's some boring story about embezzling or god knows what. Woman detective... yawn. Even though I'd like to bang Rachel, unless she's getting naked... this season's cast sucks. Colin Farrell? Really? Get the worst actors all on one show after blowing through the budget on season one, I suppose. I just sort of glossed over the first two episodes for the past 2 hours. Snorefest, I really don't know what's going on. That backwoods, voodoo bayou shit was interesting. Los Angeles is boring. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 5:46:11 PM EDT
[#36]
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Then lower your expectations.
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Fucking loved the first season. Pretty sure season two will be a disappointment. 
Then lower your expectations.
Can't get any lower. This season sucks donkey balls. If they made a season 3 I won't watch it, like I won't finish this season. Matthew McConaughey is just plain genius. Can't start off at the apex and expect the descent to get higher
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Posted: 7/2/2015 6:37:29 PM EDT
[#37]
I disagree that it sucks ass. It's just not as compelling yet. S1 was mystery, this is noir. It's just different.
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Posted: 7/2/2015 6:39:27 PM EDT
[#38]
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I don't agree, based on the DP porn viewing, but I have to admit; you make a hell of a compelling point.
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she didn't want it in the pooper. she wanted choked, slapped, threatened, hurt, used and made to feel like a used kleenex whose only worth was how much of his cum she soaked up. bitch gets off on shit that makes anal look bland. I don't agree, based on the DP porn viewing, but I have to admit; you make a hell of a compelling point.
badge, gun, knives...she's always in control. sex is where she gives up that control and it has to be rough and get inside her head to get her off |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 6:59:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I disagree that it sucks ass. It's just not as compelling yet. S1 was mystery, this is noir. It's just different. My thoughts exactly. I was grabbed almost instantly with S1. They opened with a very unique crime scene and the mystery just kept building. It didn't hurt that the acting and writing were both excellent. S2 didn't grab you right away because you didn't get that instant curiosity factor - it wasn't until the end of Ep. 2 that you even saw the crime scene, and you didn't even have a victim until very late in Ep. 1. By the end of Ep. 2, I was hooked. Maybe not quite as deeply as with S1, but that's an awfully high standard to meet. S2 has the same writer, and I still have very high hopes for the season. By Ep. 5 or 6, I suspect we'll all be glued to our seats on Sunday nights. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 7:40:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Can we get back on topic - what exactly does Rachel McAdams want to do in the bedroom?
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Posted: 7/2/2015 7:55:54 PM EDT
[#41]
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Can we get back on topic - what exactly does Rachel McAdams want to do in the bedroom?
She clearly wants someone to finish hacking her hair off with a dull saw while putting on the makeup she won't wear herself. All while she watches porn and has daddy issues. Duh. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 8:04:09 PM EDT
[#42]
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She clearly wants someone to finish hacking her hair off with a dull saw while putting on the makeup she won't wear herself. All while she watches porn and has daddy issues. Duh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can we get back on topic - what exactly does Rachel McAdams want to do in the bedroom?
She clearly wants someone to finish hacking her hair off with a dull saw while putting on the makeup she won't wear herself. All while she watches porn and has daddy issues. Duh. She does play a good dick envy chick. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 8:38:58 PM EDT
[#43]
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She does play a good dick envy chick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can we get back on topic - what exactly does Rachel McAdams want to do in the bedroom?
She clearly wants someone to finish hacking her hair off with a dull saw while putting on the makeup she won't wear herself. All while she watches porn and has daddy issues. Duh. She does play a good dick envy chick. I'll go against the grain here and say that I find her character boring. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 9:19:16 PM EDT
[#44]
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I'll go against the grain here and say that I find her character boring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can we get back on topic - what exactly does Rachel McAdams want to do in the bedroom?
She clearly wants someone to finish hacking her hair off with a dull saw while putting on the makeup she won't wear herself. All while she watches porn and has daddy issues. Duh. She does play a good dick envy chick. I'll go against the grain here and say that I find her character boring. the sex freak mystery is all she has. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 9:22:23 PM EDT
[#45]
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the sex freak mystery is all she has. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can we get back on topic - what exactly does Rachel McAdams want to do in the bedroom?
She clearly wants someone to finish hacking her hair off with a dull saw while putting on the makeup she won't wear herself. All while she watches porn and has daddy issues. Duh. She does play a good dick envy chick. I'll go against the grain here and say that I find her character boring. the sex freak mystery is all she has. Her dad is tied in with the shrink. they may both be part of the blood sex magic cult. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 9:56:25 PM EDT
[#46]
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I'll go against the grain here and say that I find her character boring. She's better than the closet homo played by Captain Cardboard. |
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Posted: 7/2/2015 10:45:50 PM EDT
[#47]
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She's better than the closet homo played by Captain Cardboard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll go against the grain here and say that I find her character boring. She's better than the closet homo played by Captain Cardboard. Let's face it, she's got a cute face but not much else going on. It wasn't just the first season's instant intrigue on the crime scene. I was sorta nonplussed by it. It was the characters, right off the bat. First Woody actually doing a decent job but Matthew being his usual awesome self and his intensity in the role and the constant juxtaposition of the two at play the entire season. Nothing sums it up more than the two fuckers flicking each other off in the hospital room.
Rachel just seems like fluff, Colin is his usual talentless self and unconvincing. Vince... let's not even get into Vince. He's been typecast forever because it's all he can do and barely that. Him trying to be serious or intimidating has me 
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:11:57 AM EDT
[#48]
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Let's face it, she's got a cute face but not much else going on. It wasn't just the first season's instant intrigue on the crime scene. I was sorta nonplussed by it. It was the characters, right off the bat. First Woody actually doing a decent job but Matthew being his usual awesome self and his intensity in the role and the constant juxtaposition of the two at play the entire season. Nothing sums it up more than the two fuckers flicking each other off in the hospital room.
Rachel just seems like fluff, Colin is his usual talentless self and unconvincing. Vince... let's not even get into Vince. He's been typecast forever because it's all he can do and barely that. Him trying to be serious or intimidating has me Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll go against the grain here and say that I find her character boring. She's better than the closet homo played by Captain Cardboard. Let's face it, she's got a cute face but not much else going on. It wasn't just the first season's instant intrigue on the crime scene. I was sorta nonplussed by it. It was the characters, right off the bat. First Woody actually doing a decent job but Matthew being his usual awesome self and his intensity in the role and the constant juxtaposition of the two at play the entire season. Nothing sums it up more than the two fuckers flicking each other off in the hospital room.
Rachel just seems like fluff, Colin is his usual talentless self and unconvincing. Vince... let's not even get into Vince. He's been typecast forever because it's all he can do and barely that. Him trying to be serious or intimidating has me So are you saying you find Tim Riggins' character more interesting than McAdams' character? |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:26:10 AM EDT
[#49]
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I think the key to finding out who the Raven is, lies in the theme song. "I live amongst you.... well disguised".... At first I was thinking maybe Vince Vaughn was the killer & he's got a separate split personality, but I can't go with that after serious thought. I can however, go along with the idea that his stupid assistant is the Raven.
He would know Casper had the money, know where the house would be... know that Vicarro is the one whom Vaughn would send to the house alone once he found out about it... And as the Asian woman in "Daredevil" said : "The smart man is the one who plays the fool." I'm suspicious of that guy too. Not sure he's the bird mask killer, but he might have tipped the guy off to Ray's visit. He was the one who wrote down the address from the hooker, so he definitely knew about it and knew about the plan to send Ray. Who else would have known? |
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Posted: 7/3/2015 12:49:16 AM EDT
[#50]
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Let's face it, she's got a cute face but not much else going on. ] Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll go against the grain here and say that I find her character boring. She's better than the closet homo played by Captain Cardboard. Let's face it, she's got a cute face but not much else going on. ] Ahem... 
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