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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:53:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wtf did I just read? 
Poster A: Brings abortion into the thread. Poster B: Doesn't say anything about abortion. Poster A: Assumes Poster B must favor abortion. Then on the basis of that assumption, declares poster B thinks human life is worthless. Poster B: Points out that he said nothing remotely like that. Poster A: Resorts to "bless your heart." Rapid-fire derp. Seriously, this could be an exchange on the Oreilley Factor. We were talking about morals. I have to remember killing human life doesn't equal morals in some people's minds. I also asked a question. I am making an assumption in the post, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. Thanks for playing the game though, and bless your heart. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:59:14 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wtf did I just read? Poster A: Brings abortion into the thread. Poster B: Doesn't say anything about abortion. Poster A: Assumes Poster B must favor abortion. Then on the basis of that assumption, declares poster B thinks human life is worthless. Poster B: Points out that he said nothing remotely like that. Poster A: Resorts to "bless your heart." Rapid-fire derp. Seriously, this could be an exchange on the Oreilley Factor.  |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:51:37 AM EDT
[#3]
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Any one change their beliefs yet? I can feel it... http://media0.giphy.com/media/rl0FOxdz7CcxO/giphy.gif 
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:56:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wtf did I just read? Poster A: Brings abortion into the thread. Poster B: Doesn't say anything about abortion. Poster A: Assumes Poster B must favor abortion. Then on the basis of that assumption, declares poster B thinks human life is worthless. Poster B: Points out that he said nothing remotely like that. Poster A: Resorts to "bless your heart." Rapid-fire derp. Seriously, this could be an exchange on the Oreilley Factor. Welcome to arfcom.  |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 2:54:24 AM EDT
[#5]
That show is still on?
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:17:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You pro choice? If so it sounds like you don't mind the killng of innocent life. Same thing as kicking babies, imo. Irony, you gots it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Most atheists don't say they 'make up their own moral code'...at least, no atheist I have ever met has ever said this. Morality really is a fascinating topic. What is moral has changed radically through the ages and among various cultures. Take us arguing over morality as we perceive it here and now. Even though we vehemently disagree as to the source of that morality, we pretty much agree on most important aspect of what is and isn't moral. Yet, go into the mountains of Afghanistan or among aboriginal peoples of the Amazon, and they would think we're all nuts. Dude, none of the chirstians here will admit any of the atheist have anything close to morals, and a few seemed shocked we aren't out setting fires and kicking babies like they think they would without religion. You pro choice? If so it sounds like you don't mind the killng of innocent life. Same thing as kicking babies, imo. Irony, you gots it. WTF are you even talking about with abortion? Stupidity, you gots it. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:19:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the atheist says "if it feels good, and I can get away with it, then it's "right", does that make it right? Moral? Atheists have no moral compass. There is no 10 commandments of atheism that all atheists agree on. And without any moral compass, anything goes. When an atheist says "I'm a moral atheist", the atheist is really saying nothing, because the atheist is the one deciding what's moral and what's not. But the worst thing about atheists is that when man does not have a God, he tends to create one, and the God of atheists more often than not is Government, and as would be expected, most liberals are atheists, so are most communists. Atheists are just bad news imho. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some Christians have difficulty understanding how morals and ethics can even exist with an atheist..... If the atheist says "if it feels good, and I can get away with it, then it's "right", does that make it right? Moral? Atheists have no moral compass. There is no 10 commandments of atheism that all atheists agree on. And without any moral compass, anything goes. When an atheist says "I'm a moral atheist", the atheist is really saying nothing, because the atheist is the one deciding what's moral and what's not. But the worst thing about atheists is that when man does not have a God, he tends to create one, and the God of atheists more often than not is Government, and as would be expected, most liberals are atheists, so are most communists. Atheists are just bad news imho. Perhaps you should read your top ten. They are woefully lacking. Nothing on rape, child abuse, genocide, fraud etc. The list of missing stuff is longer than the list of top ten. It is an arrogant character who wrote them. Number 1 is "worship" me. The bible's top ten aren't worth a shit beyond the don't kill and don't cheat. I doubt the don't cheat was in the original texts, it does not fit the rest of the bible where men have multiple partners, illicit relations etc. BTW there are a number of atheist top ten lists, I agree, but ALL of them are better than the bible's list. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:21:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True. But I'll take the Ten Commandments over the moral code created by random atheist any day of the week. My moral code has stood the test of time and has millions of followers. it is carved in stone. The moral code of a random atheist can change at the will of the athiest that created it. It's probably not even written down. It can be anything. The atheists advice is just make up your own moral code. I'm not sure I would trust myself to make up my own moral code. Again, when an atheists say they have morals, what does that mean? There is no recognized 10 commandments of athiesm. Atheists have no guiding moral compass of any religion. Atheists make up their own morals. What does that mean? Can a man make up his own moral code? Resist the temptation to simply do what feels good? I don't think so and there is where we really disagree. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I didn't say atheists have no morals. I said atheists make up their own morals as they go. But when you make up your own morals, what morals do you really have? It's kind of pointless to argue about the morals of atheists because you all make up your own. With so many different moral codes. Which one of you has it right? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The moral code you came up with are better than the moral code of the other atheists in this thread. Of course have nothing to base that on, because I have no idea what moral code you dreamed up for yourself. Who knows, you might be the "one" that came up with the bestest one of all. Some atheists make up their morals as they go. Most don't. Most have a set that they follow. Some theists make up their morals as they go (or at least, make up how they feel that their religion applies to the morality of any situation as they go). Most don't, they have a set that they follow. Thus you are attacking a strawman. If you want to insist that atheists "just make up their morals as they go", then I am going to hold theists to the same standard for doing exactly the same thing. Exactly the same problem I have with theists, or even, the same problem I have with christians. You say you are a "christian" and you follow a "christian" moral code. Too bad there isn't a single morality shared by Christians at any point in history, so I really have no idea if you are a good christian who came up with the best interpretation of christianity of all time, or if you are a bad one who wants to burn people at the stake. Like it or not, your morality is not any more objective than atheistic morality, no matter how badly you want to pretend that it is. True. But I'll take the Ten Commandments over the moral code created by random atheist any day of the week. My moral code has stood the test of time and has millions of followers. it is carved in stone. The moral code of a random atheist can change at the will of the athiest that created it. It's probably not even written down. It can be anything. The atheists advice is just make up your own moral code. I'm not sure I would trust myself to make up my own moral code. Again, when an atheists say they have morals, what does that mean? There is no recognized 10 commandments of athiesm. Atheists have no guiding moral compass of any religion. Atheists make up their own morals. What does that mean? Can a man make up his own moral code? Resist the temptation to simply do what feels good? I don't think so and there is where we really disagree. And your moral code has also lead to things like the inquisition, spanish conquistadors, slavery, and anti-semitism. Again, there is no recognized moral code that applies to all theists, there is no recognized moral code that is applied by all christians. "The ten commandments" are not the basis for all morality in christiandom. Most are ignored and not practiced today. Lying, murder, theft are about the only ones anyone even cares about anymore. Atheists do not make up their own morals any more than theists do. Theists, including all christians ever, picking and choosing what god is, what it wants, and how what this god wants applies to their specific life is not objective in any way. It is just as subjective as any atheist's view of morality. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:21:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We were talking about morals. I have to remember killing human life doesn't equal morals in some people's minds. I also asked a question. I am making an assumption in the post, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. Thanks for playing the game though, and bless your heart. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Wtf did I just read? Poster A: Brings abortion into the thread. Poster B: Doesn't say anything about abortion. Poster A: Assumes Poster B must favor abortion. Then on the basis of that assumption, declares poster B thinks human life is worthless. Poster B: Points out that he said nothing remotely like that. Poster A: Resorts to "bless your heart." Rapid-fire derp. Seriously, this could be an exchange on the Oreilley Factor. We were talking about morals. I have to remember killing human life doesn't equal morals in some people's minds. I also asked a question. I am making an assumption in the post, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. Thanks for playing the game though, and bless your heart. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:22:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............ He is indeed a Jealous God as the Bible clearly states. Jealousy is a fault of finite and fallible humans. But it is a positive attribute for a Sovereign God. He knows that His Glory is what is Best for us and doesn't want us to settle for anything less than Perfection. He wants what is Best for us, and that is Jesus. No, in this thread I learned that Jesus is a communist and wants us to suffer damnation and stuff. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:23:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah. You're talking about having morals while believing human life is worthless. Keep talking about morals though. I enjoy having a good laugh. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Dude, none of the chirstians here will admit any of the atheist have anything close to morals, and a few seemed shocked we aren't out setting fires and kicking babies like they think they would without religion. You pro choice? If so it sounds like you don't mind the killng of innocent life. Same thing as kicking babies, imo. Irony, you gots it. This wasn't enough of a train wreck. We have to kick it into overdrive by trying to bring in abortion. What's your next trick, evolution? Nah. You're talking about having morals while believing human life is worthless. Keep talking about morals though. I enjoy having a good laugh. Oh yeah, I'm sorry...god is allowed to kill humans on a whim, because he's god, and he's above morality. That right there is an example of how theistic morality is just made up as it goes along. If a theist decides one day that god wants him to kill people, including innocent people or even children...well, who he is to argue? God knows whats best, better follow the orders. Just like Phil in the OP. I have no doubt in my mind he'd have no problem trampling over freedoms if he thinks doing so would "honor god" or "protect" his sad god from "evil people" who don't believe in him. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 6:34:14 AM EDT
[#12]
For me finding out someone is an atheist, or a christian, or a muslim
tells me very little about their morality, and it tells me essentially nothing about their views on liberty. When someone tells me they are a christian, it doesn't tell me at all if they are a liberal gun banning piece of shit or not. I know plenty of Christians who are exactly that. Shockingly I have to actually talk to the person to find out their stances rather than rely on overgeneralized labels. OH THE HUGE MANATEE! Now you may say "if they don't support freedom, then they aren't truely a christian even if they think they are." Fine, fair enough. But the whole point of this discussion is you pissing and moaning about the subjectivity of the morality of atheists, not realizing there are billions of theists with "objective moral codes" whom either "picked the wrong one" or "aren't interpreting/applying the correct moral code properly", meaning there is literally no practical difference when it comes to actual human behavior of arbitrarily picking your religion based on "what feels good" to you...which is how most people, including Christians, pick their religion. Even if there was one truly objective moral code handed down by god, reality shows no such agreement about what that code is, and how it applies to humanity has every existed among all members of a religion, let alone agreement among all theists in the world. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 7:43:56 AM EDT
[#13]
I like this atheist top ten. It is not my personal work.
It sure is better than the biblical words. 1. Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. 2 In all things, strive to cause no harm. 3. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect. 4. Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted. 5. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder. 6. Always seek to be learning something new. 7. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them. 8. Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you. 9. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others. 10. Question everything. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 8:07:56 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like this atheist top ten. It is not my personal work. It sure is better than the biblical words. 1. Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. 2 In all things, strive to cause no harm. 3. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect. 4. Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted. 5. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder. 6. Always seek to be learning something new. 7. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them. 8. Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you. 9. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others. 10. Question everything. Too bad the most prominent atheists don't follow them, and neither do the ones in this thread. BTW for those who have no appreciation for modal logic (see #7 & 8  ), you should take a look at the logical mistakes by this guy as an illustration, because people here make the very same arguments. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 8:40:09 AM EDT
[#15]
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Interesting how many of those parallel the Gospels. Too bad the most prominent atheists don't follow them, and neither do the ones in this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I like this atheist top ten. It is not my personal work. It sure is better than the biblical words. 1. Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. 2 In all things, strive to cause no harm. 3. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect. 4. Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted. 5. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder. 6. Always seek to be learning something new. 7. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them. 8. Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you. 9. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others. 10. Question everything. Too bad the most prominent atheists don't follow them, and neither do the ones in this thread. Now that is funny and sad. I follow them. It was written by Richard Dawkins. I would say he is a prominent atheist. I was just sitting with a coworker who is also an ordained pastor discussing this list. He found it intriguing, and very good moral guide, and in many ways better than the biblical ten. He noted there was no requirement in the list follow any god. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 8:42:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now that is funny and sad. I follow them. It was written by Richard Dawkins. I would say he is a prominent atheist. I was just sitting with a coworker who is also an ordained pastor discussing this list. He found it intriguing, and very good moral guide, and in many ways better than the biblical ten. He noted there was no requirement in the list follow any god. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like this atheist top ten. It is not my personal work. It sure is better than the biblical words. 1. Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. 2 In all things, strive to cause no harm. 3. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect. 4. Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted. 5. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder. 6. Always seek to be learning something new. 7. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them. 8. Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you. 9. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others. 10. Question everything. Too bad the most prominent atheists don't follow them, and neither do the ones in this thread. Now that is funny and sad. I follow them. It was written by Richard Dawkins. I would say he is a prominent atheist. I was just sitting with a coworker who is also an ordained pastor discussing this list. He found it intriguing, and very good moral guide, and in many ways better than the biblical ten. He noted there was no requirement in the list follow any god. See link. And yes, you haven't either in this thread. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:04:33 AM EDT
[#17]
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Dude, none of the chirstians here will admit any of the atheist have anything close to morals, Wrong again. I will freely admit that Atheists can have a morals. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:14:28 AM EDT
[#18]
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But aren't the last six commandments a "moral code" that most societies, Christian or not, adhere to? Isn't this just a codification by the Jews of rules of any functioning society? https://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/42-principles-of-maat-2000-years-before-ten-commandments I just googled that so I have no clue if it's BS. But it's not like stealing, thieving adultery etc are uniquely condemned by Christianity. A human society will tend to have some type of rules against murder and running off with someone's wife. If you raised a group of people from birth on an isolated island where they never heard of Christianity and you told them RonaldMcDonald was the creator, they'd come up with the some version of the last six commandments . I believe you are correct. Several societies have rules very similar to the Ten Commandments. Of course, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews in the OT. Christians have them repeated in the New Testament. The biggest difference is the Jesus "expanded" on them quite a bit. Jewish leaders were bragging to Him that they closely followed the TC. Jesus told them, "Sure, you do not commit adultery, but you lust after your neighbor's wife and that is just as bad." He was trying to get them to see that it is impossible for anyone to be "righteous" by following a set of rules. We must be "justified" by God's Grace, not by following rules. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:17:23 AM EDT
[#19]
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Wrong again. I will freely admit that Atheists can have a morals. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dude, none of the chirstians here will admit any of the atheist have anything close to morals, Wrong again. I will freely admit that Atheists can have a morals. OK then, 1 Christian on here admits atheist have morals. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:22:15 AM EDT
[#20]
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I believe you are correct. Several societies have rules very similar to the Ten Commandments. Of course, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews in the OT. Christians have them repeated in the New Testament. The biggest difference is the Jesus "expanded" on them quite a bit. Jewish leaders were bragging to Him that they closely followed the TC. Jesus told them, "Sure, you do not commit adultery, but you lust after your neighbor's wife and that is just as bad." He was trying to get them to see that it is impossible for anyone to be "righteous" by following a set of rules. We must be "justified" by God's Grace, not by following rules. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But aren't the last six commandments a "moral code" that most societies, Christian or not, adhere to? Isn't this just a codification by the Jews of rules of any functioning society? https://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/42-principles-of-maat-2000-years-before-ten-commandments I just googled that so I have no clue if it's BS. But it's not like stealing, thieving adultery etc are uniquely condemned by Christianity. A human society will tend to have some type of rules against murder and running off with someone's wife. If you raised a group of people from birth on an isolated island where they never heard of Christianity and you told them RonaldMcDonald was the creator, they'd come up with the some version of the last six commandments . I believe you are correct. Several societies have rules very similar to the Ten Commandments. Of course, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews in the OT. Christians have them repeated in the New Testament. The biggest difference is the Jesus "expanded" on them quite a bit. Jewish leaders were bragging to Him that they closely followed the TC. Jesus told them, "Sure, you do not commit adultery, but you lust after your neighbor's wife and that is just as bad." He was trying to get them to see that it is impossible for anyone to be "righteous" by following a set of rules. We must be "justified" by God's Grace, not by following rules. There seems to be a few in this thread that think it is. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:22:50 AM EDT
[#21]
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You mean like the worthless human life that god destroyed in the bible, the children in Egypt solely so he could prove a point? Oh yeah, I'm sorry...god is allowed to kill humans on a whim, because he's god, and he's above morality.
That right there is an example of how theistic morality is just made up as it goes along. If a theist decides one day that god wants him to kill people, including innocent people or even children...well, who he is to argue? God knows whats best, better follow the orders. Just like Phil in the OP. I have no doubt in my mind he'd have no problem trampling over freedoms if he thinks doing so would "honor god" or "protect" his sad god from "evil people" who don't believe in him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dude, none of the chirstians here will admit any of the atheist have anything close to morals, and a few seemed shocked we aren't out setting fires and kicking babies like they think they would without religion. You pro choice? If so it sounds like you don't mind the killng of innocent life. Same thing as kicking babies, imo. Irony, you gots it. This wasn't enough of a train wreck. We have to kick it into overdrive by trying to bring in abortion. What's your next trick, evolution? Nah. You're talking about having morals while believing human life is worthless. Keep talking about morals though. I enjoy having a good laugh. Oh yeah, I'm sorry...god is allowed to kill humans on a whim, because he's god, and he's above morality.
That right there is an example of how theistic morality is just made up as it goes along. If a theist decides one day that god wants him to kill people, including innocent people or even children...well, who he is to argue? God knows whats best, better follow the orders. Just like Phil in the OP. I have no doubt in my mind he'd have no problem trampling over freedoms if he thinks doing so would "honor god" or "protect" his sad god from "evil people" who don't believe in him. Okay so you're telling me people who were enslaved, beaten and killed who kept their faith in God, and God giving warning after warning finally takes drastic matters because they're not freeing his people proving a point. To me and a lot of people, that's justice. I'm sure though you're okay with it. They were Hebrews. They deserved it. You should put Hail Hitler in your sig. Both of you have the same line of thought. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:26:07 AM EDT
[#22]
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OK then, 1 Christian on here admits atheist have morals. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dude, none of the chirstians here will admit any of the atheist have anything close to morals, Wrong again. I will freely admit that Atheists can have a morals. OK then, 1 Christian on here admits atheist have morals. Why can't you have morals? When did I say you couldn't have morals? Not all morals are wrapped up into one. Sure you can have some, but as I said before with using human life as one analogy and seeing it as worthless, gives your views on human life morals. Not to say you won't steal which has is another moral. You fail in some departments on lack of morals in certain areas. You can still have morals in other areas. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:27:33 AM EDT
[#23]
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I believe you are correct. Several societies have rules very similar to the Ten Commandments. Of course, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews in the OT. Christians have them repeated in the New Testament. The biggest difference is the Jesus "expanded" on them quite a bit. Jewish leaders were bragging to Him that they closely followed the TC. Jesus told them, "Sure, you do not commit adultery, but you lust after your neighbor's wife and that is just as bad." He was trying to get them to see that it is impossible for anyone to be "righteous" by following a set of rules. We must be "justified" by God's Grace, not by following rules. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But aren't the last six commandments a "moral code" that most societies, Christian or not, adhere to? Isn't this just a codification by the Jews of rules of any functioning society? https://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/42-principles-of-maat-2000-years-before-ten-commandments I just googled that so I have no clue if it's BS. But it's not like stealing, thieving adultery etc are uniquely condemned by Christianity. A human society will tend to have some type of rules against murder and running off with someone's wife. If you raised a group of people from birth on an isolated island where they never heard of Christianity and you told them RonaldMcDonald was the creator, they'd come up with the some version of the last six commandments . I believe you are correct. Several societies have rules very similar to the Ten Commandments. Of course, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews in the OT. Christians have them repeated in the New Testament. The biggest difference is the Jesus "expanded" on them quite a bit. Jewish leaders were bragging to Him that they closely followed the TC. Jesus told them, "Sure, you do not commit adultery, but you lust after your neighbor's wife and that is just as bad." He was trying to get them to see that it is impossible for anyone to be "righteous" by following a set of rules. We must be "justified" by God's Grace, not by following rules. Well put. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:32:32 AM EDT
[#24]
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Why can't you have morals? When did I say you couldn't have morals? Not all morals are wrapped up into one. Sure you can have some, but as I said before with using human life as one analogy and seeing it as worthless, gives your views on human life morals. Not to say you won't steal which has is another moral. You fail in some departments on lack of morals in certain areas. You can still have morals in other areas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dude, none of the chirstians here will admit any of the atheist have anything close to morals, Wrong again. I will freely admit that Atheists can have a morals. OK then, 1 Christian on here admits atheist have morals. Why can't you have morals? When did I say you couldn't have morals? Not all morals are wrapped up into one. Sure you can have some, but as I said before with using human life as one analogy and seeing it as worthless, gives your views on human life morals. Not to say you won't steal which has is another moral. You fail in some departments on lack of morals in certain areas. You can still have morals in other areas. Point out where he said he supported abortion. Seriously. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:37:46 AM EDT
[#25]
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Point out where he said he supported abortion. Seriously. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dude, none of the chirstians here will admit any of the atheist have anything close to morals, Wrong again. I will freely admit that Atheists can have a morals. OK then, 1 Christian on here admits atheist have morals. Why can't you have morals? When did I say you couldn't have morals? Not all morals are wrapped up into one. Sure you can have some, but as I said before with using human life as one analogy and seeing it as worthless, gives your views on human life morals. Not to say you won't steal which has is another moral. You fail in some departments on lack of morals in certain areas. You can still have morals in other areas. Point out where he said he supported abortion. Seriously. I'm still waiting for his response. I just know most atheist support abortion. I was trying to make a point about morals and lack of some of them. Note: Please make sure you read the part that is in bold. I see a lot of atheists who proclaim that they have just as many morals as a Christian and then turn right around and say a unborn baby can be murdered because they don't want to have to pay for the baby, because it had crap birds for parents. You see it constantly on this site. Hell just find an abortion thread on this front page and you'll see it. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:46:15 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There seems to be a few in this thread that think it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But aren't the last six commandments a "moral code" that most societies, Christian or not, adhere to? Isn't this just a codification by the Jews of rules of any functioning society? https://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/42-principles-of-maat-2000-years-before-ten-commandments I just googled that so I have no clue if it's BS. But it's not like stealing, thieving adultery etc are uniquely condemned by Christianity. A human society will tend to have some type of rules against murder and running off with someone's wife. If you raised a group of people from birth on an isolated island where they never heard of Christianity and you told them RonaldMcDonald was the creator, they'd come up with the some version of the last six commandments . I believe you are correct. Several societies have rules very similar to the Ten Commandments. Of course, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews in the OT. Christians have them repeated in the New Testament. The biggest difference is the Jesus "expanded" on them quite a bit. Jewish leaders were bragging to Him that they closely followed the TC. Jesus told them, "Sure, you do not commit adultery, but you lust after your neighbor's wife and that is just as bad." He was trying to get them to see that it is impossible for anyone to be "righteous" by following a set of rules. We must be "justified" by God's Grace, not by following rules. There seems to be a few in this thread that think it is. The irony of course is that not only can't the rules save you, but even a true sense of morality is undermined. God doesn't incentivize morality but instead puts the premium on 'belief'. You can be a good person living your life with best morals and ethics you can muster but still end up in Hell for eternity if you don't believe. On the other hand, you can be a thief and a murderer, but with the right belief you can throw your sins on the cross to be eaten by some other entity, while the one who committed them avoids the responsibility, and enjoys all the eternal pleasures heaven has to offer. In other words, following a moral code makes no difference to the absolutely most important test of a person's life: the destiny of the eternal soul. Which is why you see so many people fool around with Pascal's Wager, it's a desperate gambit by people who want to avoid the absolute worst outcome scenario. More than anything, every person in their right mind wants to avoid a horrible fate of eternal pain and punishment, and belief - not morality - becomes the ticket to this life insurance scheme. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:50:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm still waiting for his response. I just know most atheist support abortion. I was trying to make a point about morals and lack of some of them. Note: Please make sure you read the part that is in bold. I see a lot of atheists who proclaim that they have just as many morals as a Christian and then turn right around and say a unborn baby can be murdered because they don't want to have to pay for the baby, because it had crap birds for parents. You see it constantly on this site. Hell just find an abortion thread on this front page and you'll see it. Just because there's a vocal bunch of atheists that do, doesn't mean all atheists do. It's not fair to assume that he does. For example, I'm an atheist, and I do not support abortion because I believe it infringes on the rights of the baby. If the woman consented to having sex, she accepts the possibility of the intercourse resulting in pregnancy. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:52:28 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why can't you have morals? When did I say you couldn't have morals? Not all morals are wrapped up into one. Sure you can have some, but as I said before with using human life as one analogy and seeing it as worthless, gives your views on human life morals. Not to say you won't steal which has is another moral. You fail in some departments on lack of morals in certain areas. You can still have morals in other areas. I never said I was pro-choice, but keep assuming things, we all know what that does. Is it safe to assume about you that since you are a Christian, you adhere to all the same beliefs as Westboro Baptist? |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:52:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The irony of course is that not only can't the rules save you, but even a true sense of morality is undermined. God doesn't incentivize morality but instead puts the premium on 'belief'. You can be a good person living your life with best morals and ethics you can muster but still end up in Hell for eternity if you don't believe. On the other hand, you can be a thief and a murderer, but with the right belief you can throw your sins on the cross to be eaten by some other entity, while the one who committed them avoids the responsibility, and enjoys all the eternal pleasures heaven has to offer. In other words, following a moral code makes no difference to the absolutely most important test of a person's life: the destiny of the eternal soul. Which is why you see so many people fool around with Pascal's Wager, it's a desperate gambit by people who want to avoid the absolute worst outcome scenario. More than anything, every person in their right mind wants to avoid a horrible fate of eternal pain and punishment, and belief - not morality - becomes the ticket to this life insurance scheme. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
But aren't the last six commandments a "moral code" that most societies, Christian or not, adhere to? Isn't this just a codification by the Jews of rules of any functioning society? https://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/42-principles-of-maat-2000-years-before-ten-commandments I just googled that so I have no clue if it's BS. But it's not like stealing, thieving adultery etc are uniquely condemned by Christianity. A human society will tend to have some type of rules against murder and running off with someone's wife. If you raised a group of people from birth on an isolated island where they never heard of Christianity and you told them RonaldMcDonald was the creator, they'd come up with the some version of the last six commandments . I believe you are correct. Several societies have rules very similar to the Ten Commandments. Of course, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews in the OT. Christians have them repeated in the New Testament. The biggest difference is the Jesus "expanded" on them quite a bit. Jewish leaders were bragging to Him that they closely followed the TC. Jesus told them, "Sure, you do not commit adultery, but you lust after your neighbor's wife and that is just as bad." He was trying to get them to see that it is impossible for anyone to be "righteous" by following a set of rules. We must be "justified" by God's Grace, not by following rules. There seems to be a few in this thread that think it is. The irony of course is that not only can't the rules save you, but even a true sense of morality is undermined. God doesn't incentivize morality but instead puts the premium on 'belief'. You can be a good person living your life with best morals and ethics you can muster but still end up in Hell for eternity if you don't believe. On the other hand, you can be a thief and a murderer, but with the right belief you can throw your sins on the cross to be eaten by some other entity, while the one who committed them avoids the responsibility, and enjoys all the eternal pleasures heaven has to offer. In other words, following a moral code makes no difference to the absolutely most important test of a person's life: the destiny of the eternal soul. Which is why you see so many people fool around with Pascal's Wager, it's a desperate gambit by people who want to avoid the absolute worst outcome scenario. More than anything, every person in their right mind wants to avoid a horrible fate of eternal pain and punishment, and belief - not morality - becomes the ticket to this life insurance scheme. I always enjoyed the sermon on the mount. It talks about doing certain things, like treating your neighbor as you would yourself, and you will be blessed. It gives a lot of examples of being blessed. However being blessed is different then being saved. You can still have good moral values and be blessed. That's the meat of it. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:53:14 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never said I was pro-choice, but keep assuming things, we all know what that does. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why can't you have morals? When did I say you couldn't have morals? Not all morals are wrapped up into one. Sure you can have some, but as I said before with using human life as one analogy and seeing it as worthless, gives your views on human life morals. Not to say you won't steal which has is another moral. You fail in some departments on lack of morals in certain areas. You can still have morals in other areas. I never said I was pro-choice, but keep assuming things, we all know what that does. Well. Are you? |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 9:55:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well. Are you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why can't you have morals? When did I say you couldn't have morals? Not all morals are wrapped up into one. Sure you can have some, but as I said before with using human life as one analogy and seeing it as worthless, gives your views on human life morals. Not to say you won't steal which has is another moral. You fail in some departments on lack of morals in certain areas. You can still have morals in other areas. I never said I was pro-choice, but keep assuming things, we all know what that does. Well. Are you? I think abortion is pretty fucked up. So do you think your god kills american troops for the US supporting gays, like Westboro believes? |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:01:02 AM EDT
[#32]
This thread proves now ignorant both atheists and theists can be about each other.
Phil seems like a good guy. Like anyone else, he's capable of being a bonehead. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:01:10 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think abortion is pretty fucked up. So do you think your god kills american troops for the US supporting gays, like Westboro believes? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why can't you have morals? When did I say you couldn't have morals? Not all morals are wrapped up into one. Sure you can have some, but as I said before with using human life as one analogy and seeing it as worthless, gives your views on human life morals. Not to say you won't steal which has is another moral. You fail in some departments on lack of morals in certain areas. You can still have morals in other areas. I never said I was pro-choice, but keep assuming things, we all know what that does. Well. Are you? I think abortion is pretty fucked up. So do you think your god kills american troops for the US supporting gays, like Westboro believes? Westboro is setting people up using religion as their way to sue people. They're using Christianity as a front. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:19:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always enjoyed the sermon on the mount. It talks about doing certain things, like treating your neighbor as you would yourself, and you will be blessed. It gives a lot of examples of being blessed. However being blessed is different then being saved. You can still have good moral values and be blessed. That's the meat of it. Do you think any of the millions and millions and millions of Jews and Slavs that Hitler killed during the Holocaust did those "certain things"? Do you suppose that some of them may have followed the "Golden Rule", the ethic of reciprocity? Maybe they weren't blessed because they just weren't praying hard enough when the gas started coming through the vents. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 10:24:41 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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I like this atheist top ten. It is not my personal work. It sure is better than the biblical words. 1. Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. 2 In all things, strive to cause no harm. 3. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect. 4. Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted. 5. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder. 6. Always seek to be learning something new. 7. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them. 8. Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you. 9. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others. 10. Question everything. Too bad the most prominent atheists don't follow them, and neither do the ones in this thread. Now that is funny and sad. I follow them. It was written by Richard Dawkins. I would say he is a prominent atheist. I was just sitting with a coworker who is also an ordained pastor discussing this list. He found it intriguing, and very good moral guide, and in many ways better than the biblical ten. He noted there was no requirement in the list follow any god. See link. And yes, you haven't either in this thread. I never claimed I was perfect and never made a mistake, even with the above guidance. Christians break their rules all the time too. I did not start this debate but have freely participated. So with regards to keeping my lack of religion to myself, yep, I broke that one. I read your link. I see it upset the writer of the link that religion as a whole was attacked by Dawkins. I do not disagree with Dawkins at all. He spoke the harsh truths, ruffled religious feathers and the religious leadership rebutted. He is hard for the religious to listen to, there is no question about that. Oh well, quite often the truth really hurts, see item 7 above. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 11:58:13 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What shapes my morality is the concept of freedom. No, it doesn't lend itself to a list of what to do in every single situation, but no moral code that I am aware of is capable of being that objective. Morality based on ancient religions, while some may claim it is objective, really usually covers such a narrow range of examples that the interpretations of it when it comes to specifics (especially specifics related to modern day life) vary from century to century, society to society, sect to sect, congregation to congregation, and person to person. I'd concur with that. From a religious perspective, most religions define a set of ground rules and minutiae then have to be interpreted. Islam is one notable exception in that it really does try to define ALL possible daily situations as either moral or not via Sharia law. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:02:23 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never claimed I was perfect and never made a mistake, even with the above guidance. Christians break their rules all the time too. I did not start this debate but have freely participated. So with regards to keeping my lack of religion to myself, yep, I broke that one. I read your link. I see it upset the writer of the link that religion as a whole was attacked by Dawkins. I do not disagree with Dawkins at all. He spoke the harsh truths, ruffled religious feathers and the religious leadership rebutted. He is hard for the religious to listen to, there is no question about that. Oh well, quite often the truth really hurts, see item 7 above. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like this atheist top ten. It is not my personal work. It sure is better than the biblical words. 1. Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. 2 In all things, strive to cause no harm. 3. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect. 4. Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted. 5. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder. 6. Always seek to be learning something new. 7. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them. 8. Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you. 9. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others. 10. Question everything. Too bad the most prominent atheists don't follow them, and neither do the ones in this thread. Now that is funny and sad. I follow them. It was written by Richard Dawkins. I would say he is a prominent atheist. I was just sitting with a coworker who is also an ordained pastor discussing this list. He found it intriguing, and very good moral guide, and in many ways better than the biblical ten. He noted there was no requirement in the list follow any god. See link. And yes, you haven't either in this thread. I never claimed I was perfect and never made a mistake, even with the above guidance. Christians break their rules all the time too. I did not start this debate but have freely participated. So with regards to keeping my lack of religion to myself, yep, I broke that one. I read your link. I see it upset the writer of the link that religion as a whole was attacked by Dawkins. I do not disagree with Dawkins at all. He spoke the harsh truths, ruffled religious feathers and the religious leadership rebutted. He is hard for the religious to listen to, there is no question about that. Oh well, quite often the truth really hurts, see item 7 above. The writer there simply points out the failures of Dawkin's logic. It's a further failure of logic to attack the writer's perceived motives rather than his argument. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 12:10:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you think any of the millions and millions and millions of Jews and Slavs that Hitler killed during the Holocaust did those "certain things"? Do you suppose that some of them may have followed the "Golden Rule", the ethic of reciprocity? Maybe they weren't blessed because they just weren't praying hard enough when the gas started coming through the vents. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I always enjoyed the sermon on the mount. It talks about doing certain things, like treating your neighbor as you would yourself, and you will be blessed. It gives a lot of examples of being blessed. However being blessed is different then being saved. You can still have good moral values and be blessed. That's the meat of it. Do you think any of the millions and millions and millions of Jews and Slavs that Hitler killed during the Holocaust did those "certain things"? Do you suppose that some of them may have followed the "Golden Rule", the ethic of reciprocity? Maybe they weren't blessed because they just weren't praying hard enough when the gas started coming through the vents. Dude - that's over the friggin' line.  |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:27:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude - that's over the friggin' line.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I always enjoyed the sermon on the mount. It talks about doing certain things, like treating your neighbor as you would yourself, and you will be blessed. It gives a lot of examples of being blessed. However being blessed is different then being saved. You can still have good moral values and be blessed. That's the meat of it. Do you think any of the millions and millions and millions of Jews and Slavs that Hitler killed during the Holocaust did those "certain things"? Do you suppose that some of them may have followed the "Golden Rule", the ethic of reciprocity? Maybe they weren't blessed because they just weren't praying hard enough when the gas started coming through the vents. Dude - that's over the friggin' line.
ehh...can't help himself...his hatred drives him. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 1:32:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryAnd what about the ad hominem attacks? The fallacious logic?
The writer there simply points out the failures of Dawkin's logic. It's a further failure of logic to attack the writer's perceived motives rather than his argument. What you and the writer see as ad hominem attacks and fallacious logic, I see as harsh truths that religious followers just don't want to hear. He may not be tactful in your opinion and mine at times but I can't find where he lied about anything he presented. His logic is in fact very sound, not touchy feely nice, but factual. The truth may not be what you want to hear. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 2:01:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting how many of those parallel the Gospels. Too bad the most prominent atheists don't follow them, and neither do the ones in this thread. BTW for those who have no appreciation for modal logic (see #7 & 8 ), you should take a look at the logical mistakes by this guy as an illustration, because people here make the very same arguments. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I like this atheist top ten. It is not my personal work. It sure is better than the biblical words. 1. Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you. 2 In all things, strive to cause no harm. 3. Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect. 4. Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted. 5. Live life with a sense of joy and wonder. 6. Always seek to be learning something new. 7. Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them. 8. Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you. 9. Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others. 10. Question everything. Too bad the most prominent atheists don't follow them, and neither do the ones in this thread. BTW for those who have no appreciation for modal logic (see #7 & 8 ), you should take a look at the logical mistakes by this guy as an illustration, because people here make the very same arguments. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 2:05:20 PM EDT
[#42]
#1 is the "golden rule"
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Posted: 3/31/2015 2:27:40 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What you and the writer see as ad hominem attacks and fallacious logic, I see as harsh truths that religious followers just don't want to hear. He may not be tactful in your opinion and mine at times but I can't find where he lied about anything he presented. His logic is in fact very sound, not touchy feely nice, but factual. The truth may not be what you want to hear. Quote HistoryQuoted: And what about the ad hominem attacks? The fallacious logic? The writer there simply points out the failures of Dawkin's logic. It's a further failure of logic to attack the writer's perceived motives rather than his argument. What you and the writer see as ad hominem attacks and fallacious logic, I see as harsh truths that religious followers just don't want to hear. He may not be tactful in your opinion and mine at times but I can't find where he lied about anything he presented. His logic is in fact very sound, not touchy feely nice, but factual. The truth may not be what you want to hear. One man's truth is another man's CoC violation. You don't get to violate CoC #1 under the guise of truth as you see it. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:07:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One man's truth is another man's CoC violation. You don't get to violate CoC #1 under the guise of truth as you see it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And what about the ad hominem attacks? The fallacious logic?
The writer there simply points out the failures of Dawkin's logic. It's a further failure of logic to attack the writer's perceived motives rather than his argument. What you and the writer see as ad hominem attacks and fallacious logic, I see as harsh truths that religious followers just don't want to hear. He may not be tactful in your opinion and mine at times but I can't find where he lied about anything he presented. His logic is in fact very sound, not touchy feely nice, but factual. The truth may not be what you want to hear. One man's truth is another man's CoC violation. You don't get to violate CoC #1 under the guise of truth as you see it. I have to rebut the accusation that my post violated CoC 1. 1) Posting derogatory comments of a racial, religious, or sexual nature. This includes your username, signature line, title and subject lines of threads. This has been an adult conversation with no spears thrown by either of us. I respectfully disagreed with the writer of the linked site that was provided. The lack of belief should be just as respected as the beliefs of the religious. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:30:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have to rebut the accusation that my post violated CoC 1. 1) Posting derogatory comments of a racial, religious, or sexual nature. This includes your username, signature line, title and subject lines of threads. This has been an adult conversation with no spears thrown by either of us. I respectfully disagreed with the writer of the linked site that was provided. The lack of belief should be just as respected as the beliefs of the religious. I didn't say you violated the CoC. I mentioned that "the truth" as some people see it can be insulting and a CoC violation. Sorry if you thought I was implying you did. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:36:57 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't say you violated the CoC. I mentioned that "the truth" as some people see it can be insulting and a CoC violation. Sorry if you thought I was implying you did. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have to rebut the accusation that my post violated CoC 1. 1) Posting derogatory comments of a racial, religious, or sexual nature. This includes your username, signature line, title and subject lines of threads. This has been an adult conversation with no spears thrown by either of us. I respectfully disagreed with the writer of the linked site that was provided. The lack of belief should be just as respected as the beliefs of the religious. I didn't say you violated the CoC. I mentioned that "the truth" as some people see it can be insulting and a CoC violation. Sorry if you thought I was implying you did. No issue. Thanks for clarifying. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:41:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude - that's over the friggin' line.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I always enjoyed the sermon on the mount. It talks about doing certain things, like treating your neighbor as you would yourself, and you will be blessed. It gives a lot of examples of being blessed. However being blessed is different then being saved. You can still have good moral values and be blessed. That's the meat of it. Do you think any of the millions and millions and millions of Jews and Slavs that Hitler killed during the Holocaust did those "certain things"? Do you suppose that some of them may have followed the "Golden Rule", the ethic of reciprocity? Maybe they weren't blessed because they just weren't praying hard enough when the gas started coming through the vents. Dude - that's over the friggin' line.
Is that code for "Can't come up with an answer"? |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 3:55:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay so you're telling me people who were enslaved, beaten and killed who kept their faith in God, and God giving warning after warning finally takes drastic matters because they're not freeing his people proving a point. To me and a lot of people, that's justice. I'm sure though you're okay with it. They were Hebrews. They deserved it. You should put Hail Hitler in your sig. Both of you have the same line of thought. Is this some kind of edgy next level parody or did you really just try to call him a nazi? The Bible says that God explicitly hardened Pharoah's heart so he wouldn't release them. That's justice? Jesus Keerist. And what the fuck did the Pharoah's son (much less some random peasant's son) have to do with any of it? |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 4:00:21 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay so you're telling me people who were enslaved, beaten and killed who kept their faith in God, and God giving warning after warning finally takes drastic matters because they're not freeing his people proving a point. To me and a lot of people, that's justice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay so you're telling me people who were enslaved, beaten and killed who kept their faith in God, and God giving warning after warning finally takes drastic matters because they're not freeing his people proving a point. To me and a lot of people, that's justice. Quoted:
I see a lot of atheists who proclaim that they have just as many morals as a Christian and then turn right around and say a unborn baby can be murdered because they don't want to have to pay for the baby, because it had crap birds for parents. Dude, you just said it is justifiable to murder innocent children if their parents are assholes, I don't think you really have a leg to stand on if someone else thinks it's justifiable because their parents are shitbirds. |
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Posted: 3/31/2015 4:06:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that code for "Can't come up with an answer"? More likely code for "You won't be here much longer." |
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