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Posted: 12/29/2022 12:51:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Ben]
Specifically as to whether I can accomplish at least one of the following:
1) Force ATF to approve a Form 1 for a new MG in the form of a registered AR lower via court or administrative means, or 2) Force ATF to open the registry in general for post 1986 MGs via court order after they refuse to approve a Form 1 MG for me, or 3) Force ATF to open the registry to new MGs in at least one federal district, allowing new Form 1 registrations, with ATF settling there and refusing to appeal to a higher court for fear of losing nationally. What is it worth? The lot of you covering attorney's fees and beer for life after the fact vs me paying all fees plus owing you what if I lose? |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 12:56:30 PM EDT
[#1]
NO CHANCE
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Posted: 12/29/2022 12:58:38 PM EDT
[#2]
make mg
stfu ??????? profit lol jk but ill chip in some funds and happy to buy ya a beer |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:06:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vengarr: NO CHANCE |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:13:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vengarr: NO CHANCE Is he a member of congress? |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:17:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vengarr: NO CHANCE So you're in? What odds do you give me? What is no chance? 1:1,000,000? Powerball odds? 1:472,000,000? I offer to send you 1 cent if I lose, you send me a million cents if I win? |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:19:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grendelbane: Is he a member of congress? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grendelbane: Originally Posted By vengarr: NO CHANCE Is he a member of congress? No, but I do know a lot of them, along with most the former administrations NSC, and many of the current administrations secretary level folks. But that doesn't have a whole lot of relevance to this being focused on a court angle. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:19:33 PM EDT
[#7]
 I don't see it happening...but... |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:20:48 PM EDT
[#8]
I’d say you’ve gotta a better chance of getting picked up by aliens.
 not 
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:23:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fatguy7814: I’d say you’ve gotta a better chance of getting picked up by aliens. not So you're in too? What odds? |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:36:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Better call Nolo.
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:41:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fortydelta: Better call Nolo. Nolo and I are on a first name basis, and have been for years. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:53:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By vengarr: NO CHANCE Fuck it. I'm in. I'm a current ffl/sot holder. What do we need to do? I understand I could get fucked in this endeavor. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 1:58:32 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm in, but you will likely get whacked before you file your first motion...
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Posted: 12/29/2022 2:07:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fatguy7814: I’d say you’ve gotta a better chance of getting picked up by aliens. not Either way or - you'd still have equal odds of getting "anally probed" ...What they hell O.P. - if you succeed - put me down for a $20 contribution "for the Cause"... Bigger_Hammer 
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OK, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2022 2:12:29 PM EDT
[#15]
All I know is I'm really glad someone with the means to do so is going to try!
Thank you sir! |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 2:15:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Voland: I'm in, but you will likely get whacked before you file your first motion... Good luck to them. I'm in a position where it is impossible for an American government employee to enter the country I'm in without me knowing ahead of time, because I have to approve them coming. 
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Posted: 12/29/2022 2:18:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FightingHellfish]
[#17]
I’ll bet you a beer on that one. All you have to do to win is make enough progress that the story is featured in some form of mainstream or traditional media.
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Posted: 12/29/2022 2:33:40 PM EDT
[#18]
I think since Bruen it is a possibility that some federal district court may overturn 922(0) and allow the new manufacture of machineguns, but I would still say its a long shot.
10:1 Odds. $10 get me $100? Just kidding, but I would be willing to financially contribute to the cause. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 2:45:06 PM EDT
[#19]
I would love you forever, I would rather it all be abolished, but at a minimum I should be able to form 1 MG's all I want.
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Posted: 12/29/2022 2:47:40 PM EDT
[#20]
I'm in. I'm not betting against you. In fact I'll rip a few d60s in your honor off my frt15SAW to the berm gods.
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Posted: 12/29/2022 3:31:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Gamma762]
[#21]
Originally Posted By Ben: 1) Force ATF to approve a Form 1 for a new MG in the form of a registered AR lower via court or administrative means, or By claiming that a lower isn't a receiver? They'll either call it a conversion device, or barring that, that the hole could be drilled in the lower but that you couldn't assemble a firearm onto the lower. That one seems low probability of getting a useful outcome, unless I'm not seeing the strategy. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 4:17:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Villafuego]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigHunt: I think since Bruen it is a possibility that some federal district court may overturn 922(0) and allow the new manufacture of machineguns, but I would still say its a long shot. 10:1 Odds. $10 get me $100? Just kidding, but I would be willing to financially contribute to the cause. Bruen? The 1934 NFA, Title 2 of the 1968 GCA, and 922(O) aren't "interpretations" or "determinations" ..... they are actual legislation ...... As an FYI, 922 (0) didn't outlaw the manufacture of new machineguns, nor did it "close the registry" ...... it actually outlawed all civilian possession of MG's, while exempting the possession and transfer of those registered in the NFRTR prior to the enaction date of the legislation As far as the OP is concerned, there are no odds ..... 0.0% chance |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 4:21:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Nolo and I are on a first name basis, and have been for years. 
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Posted: 12/29/2022 4:29:02 PM EDT
[#24]
I don't know anything about Odds and or calculating them to a #, except when I feel like someone has good odds or bad.
This, nothing personal seems like about the same as a Snowballs chance in Hell. Again, nothing personal I just don't see it. Maybe looking at it from where you are, you have a better view than I do. Either way, I wish you luck. With the price of ammo the way it is, I dunno if I'd get a F.A. (or Happy Switched) lower if I could... Wait, Fuck yea I would... Who am I kidding. I would really love to see Cans and SBRs get taken out of NFA purview, or NFA as a whole done away with, unless by doing that enacts some other more heinous BS that's even worse... Seems like Chess, that I'm not good at. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2022 5:02:49 PM EDT
[#25]
I happen to think new civvie MG's will be a thing in my lifetime and I'm in my 40's.
the text and history standard in Bruen should help seal the deal. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2022 5:03:36 PM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 12/29/2022 5:27:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By smullen: I would really love to see Cans and SBRs get taken out of NFA purview, or NFA as a whole done away with, unless by doing that enacts some other more heinous BS that's even worse... Seems like Chess, that I'm not good at. The whole thing is 1930s fudds and tyrants, trying to stop anyone from actually doing what the 2A was supposed to be about (self defense/tyranny/invasion) and just having sporting firearms. There's no logical sense to it, especially after handguns were removed from the proposal. The suppressor ban has resulted in literally hundreds of millions of people suffering lifetimes of hearing damage and uncountable costs in medical care and hearing aids along with the monumental human suffering of hearing loss and tinnitus. It's an abomination based on ignorance and contempt. I'm cautiously ok with a higher level of scrutiny for things like explosive DDs, howitzers, etc... but it makes no sense for someone to actually be able to have a howitzer and explosive ammo, but not a full auto 10/22. It makes no sense for a 12ga with 9 pellets of 00 buckshot to be perfectly fine, but a full auto 10/22 is effectively banned. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 5:37:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OTTOSEAR: It will never happen. Richey Rich doesn’t want his nest egg to crack /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/330CC6C3-704D-4020-B3D5-C91D11232EB1-475.gif Who is "Richey Rich", and how much control do you think he has over congress, the senate, the executive branch, and the media ? |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 5:38:21 PM EDT
[#29]
I don't think your odds are the greatest, but I'd love to see another go at it post Bruen.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2022 5:41:07 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Villafuego: Who is "Richey Rich", and how much control do you think he has over congress, the senate, the executive branch, and the media ? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Villafuego: Originally Posted By OTTOSEAR: It will never happen. Richey Rich doesn’t want his nest egg to crack /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/330CC6C3-704D-4020-B3D5-C91D11232EB1-475.gif Who is "Richey Rich", and how much control do you think he has over congress, the senate, the executive branch, and the media ? Investors with political clout. Mrs. Fields the Cookie Lady comes to mind. A Richina Rich if you will. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 5:42:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Good luck to them. I'm in a position where it is impossible for an American government employee to enter the country I'm in without me knowing ahead of time, because I have to approve them coming. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Originally Posted By Voland: I'm in, but you will likely get whacked before you file your first motion... Good luck to them. I'm in a position where it is impossible for an American government employee to enter the country I'm in without me knowing ahead of time, because I have to approve them coming. Let's take bets on whether someone can get in. 
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Posted: 12/29/2022 5:51:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Villafuego: Bruen? The 1934 NFA, Title 2 of the 1968 GCA, and 922(O) aren't "interpretations" or "determinations" ..... they are actual legislation ...... As an FYI, 922 (0) didn't outlaw the manufacture of new machineguns, nor did it "close the registry" ...... it actually outlawed all civilian possession of MG's, while exempting the possession and transfer of those registered in the NFRTR prior to the enaction date of the legislation As far as the OP is concerned, there are no odds ..... 0.0% chance Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Villafuego: Originally Posted By BigHunt: I think since Bruen it is a possibility that some federal district court may overturn 922(0) and allow the new manufacture of machineguns, but I would still say its a long shot. 10:1 Odds. $10 get me $100? Just kidding, but I would be willing to financially contribute to the cause. Bruen? The 1934 NFA, Title 2 of the 1968 GCA, and 922(O) aren't "interpretations" or "determinations" ..... they are actual legislation ...... As an FYI, 922 (0) didn't outlaw the manufacture of new machineguns, nor did it "close the registry" ...... it actually outlawed all civilian possession of MG's, while exempting the possession and transfer of those registered in the NFRTR prior to the enaction date of the legislation As far as the OP is concerned, there are no odds ..... 0.0% chance Yes. What do you think NYSPRA v Bruen did? It struck down legislation passed by the New York State Assembly. It wasn't some interpretation or determination. It said the law was unconstitutional. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:06:30 PM EDT
[#33]
FFL/SOT.
You have my attention. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:14:14 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:29:46 PM EDT
[#35]
For the naysayers how many of you expected Roe V Wade to get BTFO'd?
Has anyone even had any progress attacking the MG ban since that 1990's Rock Island case? I can't think of any off the top of my head. If you think you can then how can I donate to your funds? |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:31:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigHunt: Yes. What do you think NYSPRA v Bruen did? It struck down legislation passed by the New York State Assembly. It wasn't some interpretation or determination. It said the law was unconstitutional. You don't understand, nor can it be expained to you |
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USA
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Posted: 12/29/2022 6:33:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ben: Good luck to them. I'm in a position where it is impossible for an American government employee to enter the country I'm in without me knowing ahead of time, because I have to approve them coming. You approve Predator flight plans? You are something special, Mr. Johnny Quid. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 8:22:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Left_Cant: You approve Predator flight plans? You are something special, Mr. Johnny Quid. Is this comment available in a version that makes sense? |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 10:10:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Villafuego: Bruen? The 1934 NFA, Title 2 of the 1968 GCA, and 922(O) aren't "interpretations" or "determinations" ..... they are actual legislation ...... As an FYI, 922 (0) didn't outlaw the manufacture of new machineguns, nor did it "close the registry" ...... it actually outlawed all civilian possession of MG's, while exempting the possession and transfer of those registered in the NFRTR prior to the enaction date of the legislation As far as the OP is concerned, there are no odds ..... 0.0% chance If you are so confident I this, what are you willing to bet? Give me odds? You'd take the million to one odds? Have you got a million dollars? Or million to one odds in cents? |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 10:14:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Left_Cant: You approve Predator flight plans? You are something special, Mr. Johnny Quid. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Left_Cant: Originally Posted By Ben: Good luck to them. I'm in a position where it is impossible for an American government employee to enter the country I'm in without me knowing ahead of time, because I have to approve them coming. You approve Predator flight plans? You are something special, Mr. Johnny Quid. I'm the senior diplomat for security related matters in the country. So yes, even the .mil has to get my office to sign off on things. Very smart of you though. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 12/29/2022 10:34:17 PM EDT
[#41]
Purportedly there are a few post 1986 MGs on the registry.
Who knows? Is it possible, probably. Is it probable? Not so much. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/29/2022 10:41:08 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm not worried about what we owe you if you win, but the fact that if you lose it may be no more America for you.
But hey, life is all about having the cajones to do something if you have the means. 
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Posted: 12/29/2022 10:50:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DanishM1Garand: Purportedly there are a few post 1986 MGs on the registry. Who knows? Is it possible, probably. Is it probable? Not so much. There are. I've seen them. |
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Posted: 12/29/2022 10:55:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Let me know where I can donate to your cause.
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Posted: 12/29/2022 11:35:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Where do I send monies, OP?
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Posted: 12/29/2022 11:43:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Actions...
I'd support the cause for sure. |
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USA
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Posted: 12/30/2022 12:55:47 AM EDT
[#47]
Is there a time frame? Like maybe 5 years or something?
I'm Interested. Nothing is surprising at this point. |
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Posted: 12/30/2022 1:06:13 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LibertyPilgrim: Is there a time frame? Like maybe 5 years or something? I'm Interested. Nothing is surprising at this point. Probably January or February. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2022 1:15:21 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weapons_free: make mg stfu ??????? profit lol jk but ill chip in some funds and happy to buy ya a beer You have no idea how many are built with that train of thought. I'd bet more than double the number that are transferrable. I'd chip in and buy you a beer too. I'd love to see the gov get their asses handed to them and I'd love to see a n open registry. It's a step in the right direction. I'd really love to see NFA die completely. So many people rejecting the idea surprises me, especially in the MG world. What is it? Don't want to loose the "value" of your transferrable? You never really know the answer I til you ask for push the subject. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 12/30/2022 1:24:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Projectinfinity]
[#50]
Because this isn’t your first rodeo, I would be willing to put you on my NFA trust with my transferable Sten if you wanted to Form 1 another Sten and say how is one dangerous and unusual and the other is not.
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