Update in last post from me.  

OP:  Both are .45 octagonal barrel muzzle loaders  in what I would call carbine length.  Cap and ball, not flintlock.

Because they were owned by a meth head, the bores weren’t cleaned and have pitting. I’ve been scrubbing them with bronze brushes.

After I got the easy stuff out, I assembled a 9 volt cleaner and got a great deal more out. Brushed some more and then plugged the nipple and filled them with PB Blaster. I let them sit overnight, poured out even more sludge.

I would like to remove the breech plugs, but I don’t have the knowledge or equipment to attempt such. The small screws filling the clean out holes under the nipples are frozen.

At this point I am unsure how much farther to go. Do I clean as well as I can, shoot it, and then clean it well or should I find someone to remove the screws and also remove the breech plugs.

Any advice is welcome.

Stock representative photo.

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The brownish one is a Thompson Center. The bore is extremely rough even after soaking, scrubbing, and electrolysis. I have tried to remove the breech block with zero success.  It is the one with the protruding clean out screw.  I am thinking that relining it is my only option.

The other is a Cabela’s. Its bore may be salvageable. I have not tried to remove the plug yet.

Any input on this is greatly appreciated.

Plug the nipple and fill the barrel up with vinegar and lit it sit for a day or two
Or this https://www.amazon.com/Henkel-NAVAL-JELLY-Fluid-Ounce/dp/B000C016OC
Be careful with the naval jelly. It will strip the browning or blueing off the outside of the barrel
Wash and scrub out and inspect
I normally wash my muzzle loaders with hot soapy water and a tight patch. I put a rubber hose on the nipple and the in and out movement will push out the air and pull in water and then pushes out / in water until it is clean. Keep a towel around the top to catch water that gets on top of the patch
Dump and drain and put up and it will steam dry

I have an old cva Ky long rifle from 1978 or so
It is pitted and still a tack driver
You just have to clean and try it and see how they act
Remember to figure out the twist rate so you know to use lead ball or maxi ball to test for accuracy

Some of the old Thompsons had Douglas barrels. I have one. Dont let the rusty barrels discourage you. They can most likely be scrubbed out and be good shooters.

After you clean them as much as you can, get some JB bore paste and use a black powder Jag with a patch soaked in the paste.

Just keep scrubbing with it you may notice the patches tearing from the rough pitting, keep going until the

patches no longer tear. It will smooth up the lands and groves, not perfectly but it will be to an acceptable level.

I've seen and fixed worse, once you've cleaned them as good as it gets, it's time to go shoot them.

They aren't going to be target rifles suitable for competition without significant work.

I would probably start with a good cast hollowbase bullet with a bunch of lube to help shake loose the crud and also make cleaning easier.

I'm not able to get the nipples off.  I don't want to snap them off.  Should I heat that area with a propane torch?

I have no idea one way or another regarding heating the barrel that much.. I'm leaning more towards maybe not.

That said, one of THESE will give you more control then a torch.

Heat away. Propane torch alone won’t get it hot enough to weaken it for BP use. It usually doesn’t take a lot of heat to get stuck metal parts to move. Heat the area around the nipple, not the nipple so much.

Several times i've had nipples that were stuck. Trick i have successfully used is getting a soldering iron, and heat up the nipple itself.  Then take a can of computer air, turn it upside down, and blast the very cold air right though the middle of the nipple.  Make sure you do not stick the tube too far in and get the cold on the nipple itself instead of too deep.  Sometimes you will hear a pop when the cold hits the hot metal.  Very quickly get your nipple wrench on the nipple and it usually will come loose then.  As far as a rough bore, you are not dealing with very high pressure with black powder. i've had several very pitted bores that shot acceptable groups in spite of pitting, but it does make cleanup harder when there are a ton of pits.  JB Bore Paste will help some as will some other grind compound type solutions. i even firelapped a few BP barrels over the years with success in smoothing out the pitted barrels.

Agree. If it will load a lubed tight patched ball without tearing the patch or causing a stuck ball, and it shoots into the bullseye at 50 yds, then it's really just cosmetic - am I not right? Just don't look at it.  Liver Eatin' Johnson didn't have a borescope LOL. But, I hear you, I obsess over bore cleaning myself - you can do that if you buy new because you can keep it clean and not let it get that way.

If it's too rough take a smaller sized jag and cut a piece of maroon Scotch-brite as a patch and smooth over the rough edges of the pits until you can run a patch in and out without it tearing or catching real bad. Here's a video of Mike Beliveau doing it:

Polishing a rough bore

After you shoot it a lot over time the pits will sorta fill in with baked on black graphite-like carbon which seems harder than the steel itself lol. Shoot the heck out of it and have fun.

@TontoGoldstein

One rifle is a Cabela’s .45 Hawken style with very strong rifling. It is an attractive rifle. It had the least rust. After many brushings,  I filled the barrel with Evapo Rust. Even after days of cleaning I was amazed at the amount of crud that poured out. I suspect that the breech plug was pretty bad.

After Evapo Rust, I put the barrel breech block first into a bucket of new paint thinner. Using a swab I pumped a bunch of the thinner in and out.  Even more sludge.

Liquid easily flows out of the nipple hole.  I decided to stop at this point. I swabbed the bore with 30W synthetic and set it aside.  When it comes time to shoot it, I will rinse the bore with isopropyl alcohol to get it clean and dry….and then get to it.

The next was a Thompson Center .45 Hawken style. This one showed no rifling. I cleaned and cleaned and decided to throw in the towel. Unable to find a reasonable replacement barrel, I looked at electro chemical rifling, turning it into a .50 or a smooth bore looked like more money and work than worth it.

I had the breech plug removed mechanically without heating and got to cleaning it again. Long story short, it has shallow rifling common to TC rifles. There is still pitting and I would never buy a rifle in this condition. Time will tell. My biggest concern will be cleaning black power out of the pits after firing so that the corrosion doesn’t start again.

Like the Cabela rifle, I reassembled it and will give it a shot later.  It isn’t nearly as pretty as the Cabela one.

Frankly it’s been a blast.

I love fixing stuff.

Waiting.

Test fire the rough bore.  It may still shoot accurately.

@Cantshootstrate

Would you please tell me what cast hollow base and where I can get them?

I’ve been reading Fadala’s Black Powder Loading Manual put out by Gun Digest Years ago.

I’ve been shooting main battle cartridge rifles for decades. But I know next to nothing about BO rifles.

I wouldn't shoot any conicals in it for a while. Those pits will just lead-up that barrel very quickly. I'd shoot a bunch of patched round balls first myself, and wear down those pits a little.

On second thought, maybe smearing lead into those pits and filling them up with lead ain't such a bad idea lol. Sorta like muzzleloader Bondo lol. Might make it easier to load patched balls!

Give this guy a call to have the barrels rebored larger. If you want.

Bobby Hoyt
Freischutz Shop
2379 Mt Hope Rd
Fairfield, PA 17320
ph# 717-642-6696

Ditto on Mr Hoyt - the gunsmith I know has had more than one barrel fixed by him, either relined or simply bored out to a larger caliber.
My buddy makes his retirement career on fixing old broken muzzle loaders - he took this Bubba'd broken dog I found for a song at a pawn shop;



And completely rebuilt it from a non working dang near destroyed Bubba job to this sweet shooter that my son is VERY proud of!



So, don't give up - you can rescue those old rifles. If you want to contact my buddy, look for LAGS over at castboolits.

Have an original 1842 musket barrel with rust around the nipple. Took a Monster Drink can, cut the top out, placed the breech end in it, and then  filled with Kroil oil to cover it. Then poured Kroil oil down the bore. Set on the corner of the work bench for about a month. Every week would run a cleaning rod and in it a couple of times. In the end, the nipple easily came out with normal torque with a nipple wrench.

May be more time than you want but may be the easiest way to get those stuck screws out.

Thanks to all the responders.