User Panel
Part 2 - Making test loads
OK, I have 95 grain projectiles and I use Accurate Arms powder. So I went to http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf and found this entry: No.5 95 SIE FMJ 4.3 784 4.8 891 14,000 0.945 I have AA#5. So I decided to make the follow test loads: 10 x 4.3 grains AA#5 10 x 4.5 grains AA#5 10 x 4.7 grains AA#5 10 x 4.8 grains AA#5 The next step was to convert the 550 over to 380ACP Initially it was like this: No shell plate, no dies in the toolhead. So I put the 380ACP shell plate, locator buttons on it. Then the 380ACP toolhead. I cleaned the dies for good measure, lubed the main ram, made sure the small primer feed system was working. At this point I kept the machine dry: no primers no powder The sizing die was already adjusted from the last time I did 380. So I didn't have to do anything special at station 1. Next step was to adjust the case mouth belling, that's done at station 2 with the powder funnel. It was set from the last reloading session but I needed to adjust it some. This is always a minor PITA. Anyway, when I had enough bell, I moved on to station 3 and seated a bullet in a sized but unprimed and uncharged case My goal at this point is to get the cartridge OAL adjusted. From another reloading manual the min cartridge OAL is 0.940" and the max is 0.984". I figured somewhere halfway, around 0.960" would be perfect. After twiddling with it I got it at .962" and figured it was close enough and locked down the die rings. Note you can see the case mouth belling in this pic. It wont be removed until the case is taper crimped Here's the dummy round taper crimped Here's the dummy round in the case gage being checked Next step was to fill the priming feed system with small pistol primers which was easy since I already filled the tubes. Then I calibrated the powder measure to drop 4.3 grains of AA#5 The first live round is always exciting and should be checked Looks good. I finished the other 9 with the 4.3 grain charge Then I did 10 rounds of 4.3, 4.5, 4.7, and 4.8 grains I marked the cases in case I dropped the box. My method is the more marks on a case the more powder it has. the 4.3 grain loads have no marks, the 4.5 have one ticky mark, the 4.7 have 2 ticky marks, the 4.8 grain loads have an "X" That's it for now, nothing more I can do until I test fire the loads |
|
|
Tiny case, a tenth of a grain will give a pretty big change. (but you likely knew this)
|
|
|
A great how to post, and a good read.
Please inform us what these loads will be fired in. I'm thinking not a pocket pistol? |
|
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Never reloaded .380 (nor owned anything in that cartridge) but it supposedly has a reputation as being very finicky with very little wiggle room.
That said, looks like you are on the right track. Nice stash BTW. |
|
|
Originally Posted By dryflash3: A great how to post, and a good read. Please inform us what these loads will be fired in. I'm thinking not a pocket pistol? They're be part of the test fire pics but I plan to shoot 5 each in a Sig 230 and a Beretta 84F |
|
|
I reloaded .380's back in the 1970's for a Walther PPK/S and a Browning (the only fixed breech .380)
Accuracy and reliability were excellent and Bullseye was my powder of choice then. Pressure is an issue because of the extremely limited volume of the case. Be very careful about bullet setback as pressures can go wild. I can see in your pictures that your case sizing appears to be very good and the case walls appear to be narrower behind the bullet, a light crimp holds better than a massive inversion of the case mouth... a second word to the wise. Now as to your approach for this post: Bravo !!! |
|
http://www.coltsmfg.com/cmci/Images/AccurizedRifle.jpg
|
Biggest issue with loading .380 is that data is all over the freaking place, some manuals max loads are below other manual's MAX.
I've had ok luck with W231, but some of the manuals loads are really conservative, in this case conservative means 2 tenths of a grain difference. |
|
|
Originally Posted By NVGdude:
Biggest issue with loading .380 is that data is all over the freaking place, some manuals max loads are below other manual's MAX. I've had ok luck with W231, but some of the manuals loads are really conservative, in this case conservative means 2 tenths of a grain difference. You mean some manuals max loads are below another's minimum? I use Win 231 for .380 most of the time, about 3.1 grains for 95 grain bullet. Some manuals say 3.2 is the max, some say it's the starting load. YMMV, but it shoots fine out of my PPK, and recoils about the same as the Federal 90gr Hydrashok loads, so it's not harsh at all. |
|
|
I reload .380 using 3.1Gr of Hodgdon Universal and 100Gr Berry's plated bullets. Both my Llama IIIA and Kel-Tec shoots good with that combo. My reloads are just for range use so I keep mine light. I was amazed at all the different reloading data for .380, its all over the place. I use Hodgdons data since that's what brand powder I am using.
|
|
|
Are you using the small powder bar or that extra small one they sell? I've got to work on doing the same this week with my 550 and W231.
|
|
|
I reload .380acp for my LCP (for range use, as this is the Peoples Republik of New Jerseystan, where the only people that carry are jersey cops and the bad guys.
I use Roger's Better Bullets (really hard lead) 95gr LRN over a trickled charge of 2.9gr Hodgdon Titegroup for an average 851fps. A Lee Factory crimp finishes the job. It's a snappy load in that little pistol, and pretty damn accurate at 15yds considering the lack of a front sight on the LCP. |
|
United States of America
Rest in Peace July 4, 1776 - Nov 4, 2008 Her memory lives on in our hearts FUBO Read The Patriot It's Right,It's Free [url]http://patriotpost.us/subscribe.php[/url] |
Originally Posted By njJoniGuy:
I reload .380acp for my LCP (for range use, as this is the Peoples Republik of New Jerseystan, where the only people that carry are jersey cops and the bad guys. I use Roger's Better Bullets (really hard lead) 95gr LRN over a trickled charge of 2.9gr Hodgdon Titegroup for an average 851fps. A Lee Factory crimp finishes the job. It's a snappy load in that little pistol, and pretty damn accurate at 15yds considering the lack of a rear sight on the LCP. Same bullets I use but I use Unique powder. |
|
There's hope with a scope! .308 holes make invisible souls.
|
Originally Posted By tojan19: Are you using the small powder bar or that extra small one they sell? I've got to work on doing the same this week with my 550 and W231. Using the standard small powder bar that came with the press way back in '93 |
|
|
Great post, very methodical and practical! Makes me look like a hack. Will incorporate into my own loads. Thanks
|
|
|
Originally Posted By homeyclaus:
You mean some manuals max loads are below another's minimum? Yeah, that's what I meant. Typing to fast. For example, with a 95 grain FMJ, Speer shows a Max of W231 at 4.0, start at 3.6. Others show a max of 3.2. |
|
|
Range session post is another winner.
Our methods are very similar for load testing. I give you extra credit for not letting a little rain stop such important work. We have a saying in Washington, "we're going fishing/hunting/shooting rain or shine". |
|
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
This is an awesome thread. I dare say it should be tacked, or put into the Resources somewhere.
Great job OP, very complete and well done. |
|
كافر All the way. [Not Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile]
|
Great job, and nice writeup.
I just so happened to have done the same thing over the last couple of weekends. Finally got ahold of some .380ACP dies, and set up my 550B. 95gr FMJ's like yours (look the same - mine were Remingtons). I went with 4.0gr of Unique with a Winchester SP primer. Loaded up a few and tested them over the weekend, and was quite happy with them. Cranked out 260 of them yesterday, until I ran out of bullets. Darn shortages! |
|
--FJC
NRA Life |
'Part 4 - Production' updated
Thanks everyone for the kind remarks and encouragement |
|
|
Originally Posted By 308Sako:
I reloaded .380's back in the 1970's for a Walther PPK/S and a Browning (the only fixed breech .380) Be very careful about bullet setback as pressures can go wild. I can see in your pictures that your case sizing appears to be very good and the case walls appear to be narrower behind the bullet, a light crimp holds better than a massive inversion of the case mouth... a second word to the wise. Bravo !!! Fixed breach or locked breach designs are now used on the Ruger and Kel Tec .380s these days; anyone know if the old Colt Pony .380 also used a locked breach? The .380 case is quite tough. In a locked breach design, the case can handle FAR hotter loads than in the little blow-back guns - some of which are over 100 years old now (hence, published load data is made appropriate for 100+ year old antiques). |
|
|
Originally Posted By callgood: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd185/toyotatacoma03/reload2/380Project/Dillon380ACPProject26.jpg Something's funny here. The funky aqua blue is from my Sony Cybershit 85 camera. Look at Part 2 - Making test loads and the first 2 pics, the first one without the flash is normal looking, the second one with the flash is goofy. Sharp eye! |
|
|
Loaded ammo pic with shoe, win.
I had noticed the color was off on your 550 in previous pics, just thought it was sun fading. |
|
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Your camera's white balance is off-should be an option to reset it or have it automatically adjusted.
I'm looking at running up some .380s in the near-term future. Thanks for the tutorial. Looks really good. Any idea who made those projectiles? Just curious. |
|
"--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
Heinlein |
Originally Posted By GHPorter: Any idea who made those projectiles? Just curious. Seller had no idea on the brand, claimed there was 3167 Found the EE post in the archives http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=7&f=114&t=446368 |
|
|
Originally Posted By CBR900:
Fixed breach or locked breach designs are now used on the Ruger and Kel Tec .380s these days; anyone know if the old Colt Pony .380 also used a locked breach? The Colt Pony was the DAO version of the Mustang, yes it was locked breach same as the Mustang, Mustang Pocketlite, and .380 Government. |
|
|
That's a lot of bullets. I wondered for a second if I had enough brass, primers, and powder to load them all. Then I realized what
a silly question I'll be working up a new load in 9mm for 124gr plated bullets soon. Your post motivated me to get started. |
|
Waterboard 'em.
|
Great photo-essay. Thanks Mr. A.R.
|
|
|
Here is a thread about what happens when you accidentally load a .380 case with a 9mm load using a 124 grn Jacketed montana gold bullet and fire it out of a 9mm handgun:
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85685 (apparently it worked just fine. The .380 case is quite strong. The weakness comes from the older, antique blow-back action guns out there). |
|
|
Originally Posted By CBR900:
Here is a thread about what happens when you accidentally load a .380 case with a 9mm load using a 124 grn Jacketed montana gold bullet and fire it out of a 9mm handgun: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=85685 (apparently it worked just fine. The .380 case is quite strong. The weakness comes from the older, antique blow-back action guns out there). I have actually loaded a 147gr Zero bullet into a .380 case. I did not fire it, as I caught it on final inspection before it went into an ammo box. Even without significant crimp... the bullet was not loose at all. I would guess it would have loaded and fired just fine in my G19 or G17. |
|
"Which brings me to another point... make doubly sure the stalls are empty before shouting at your penis in the men's room."--Cypher214
|
Awesome write-up.
I haven't been able to find .380 ammo anywhere, so I'm envious |
|
|
Good point. Reloading is more important than ever!
|
|
|
Awesome thread. Answered my questions. Thanks!
|
|
|
couple more pics added to Part 4
|
|
"Guns change Governments much surer that votes ever do." - Lord of War 2005
|
Nice job! I ordered a .380 crimp die from Dillon last week. I will have to swap out a powder measure, but otherwise the toolhead is ready to go.
Thanks for taking the time to post all this info. Rick |
|
RIP: United States of America, Born July 4th, 1776, Died Nov 4th, 2008- SUICIDE
|
Originally Posted By kyreb: Nice job! I ordered a .380 crimp die from Dillon last week. I will have to swap out a powder measure, but otherwise the toolhead is ready to go. Thanks for taking the time to post all this info. Rick Good thing about the 380 on a Dillon: it uses the same small priming system as .223 and the same shell plate and the same locator buttons It uses the same powder funnel as 9mm The sizing die is different than the 9mm, and I'm guessing the taper crimp die as well. Not sure about the seater |
|
"Guns change Governments much surer that votes ever do." - Lord of War 2005
|
"All the brass looked ok, no signs of over pressure. All rounds cycled perfectly, no jams. Based on the results so far I'm liking the 4.7 grain loads. I already lost 2 pieces of brass to the Brass Gods. I always let the Brass Gods take what they want. They're firm but fair.
BRASS GODS. LOVE IT!!! |
|
|
Mission accomplished. Update with final pics in the 4th post
|
|
"Guns change Governments much surer that votes ever do." - Lord of War 2005
|
Well done, great wrap up.
That's about a 1 year supply? |
|
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other. |
Originally Posted By dryflash3: Well done, great wrap up. That's about a 1 year supply? Call it a dozen 380 range sessions, sometimes they come in spurts, other times it's a while between 380 sessions. |
|
"Guns change Governments much surer that votes ever do." - Lord of War 2005
|
Fantastic read! Doing a little research on reloading, some of the different types of ammo are harder to find than I'd like in my home town =) Thanks!
|
|
“A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” - George Washington
|
Great post !!! I was thinking about .380 on my 550 but have not made the plunge
|
|
|
Good write up.
I just wish more people would read "other threads" that may not sound like "their current problem." I figure, that they could probably learn the "lessons" of TESTING. So next time, MAYBE they won't have to ask.......... "I'm just beginning to reload whatever caliber. How should I start? And, what will be the BEST load?" Aloha, Mark |
|
"Guns don't kill people......the Government does."
Dale Dribble |
Thanks for all the kind words.
That was a fun project. 12 gauge will be my next reloading project, running way low on shotshells |
|
"Guns change Governments much surer that votes ever do." - Lord of War 2005
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" – Margaret Thatcher |
Damn you know what the street value is on all that 380
|
|
[NO TEXT]
|
i really enjoyed the article. thanks for taking the time to write it up.
|
|
I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams. --William Butler Yeats
|
Very informative write-up. This kind of post is what gives new reloaders like me the low-down on how to do things right, the first time. Thanks
|
|
[NO TEXT]
|
Excellent write up indeed! Thanks.
I've been loading for the LCP, unsized 105 SWC cast from range lead using a Lee six cavity mold and lubed with Liquid Alox. They are seated so the front shoulder is just a few thousandths in front of the case mouth. Powder is 2.2 gr of Win 231. (small rifle primers won't go boom reliably in the LCP) They look like cycling would be impossible but they cycle 100% and are very accurate, well accurate enough to hit a torso sized plate 4 out of 6 at 50 yards without trying seriously. The press is a Dillon 550B. There is one problem, the tarnished .380 brass is very hard to find. |
|
|
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.