The faster processing times for NFA transfers were explained in the ATF FFL/SOT webinar being held today.  I apologize for the rough writeup but I was typing these notes, watching the slide show, and listening at the same time.

High-level synopsis if you didn't get the invitation or couldn't attend (only 3000 invitations were sent out to FFL/SOT's):

Holdup of processing is primarily due to FBI NICS because all F1/F4/F5 applicants get run through it.  GCA specifies three-day response for Title I transfers, NFA does not, so NFA background check requests are given a lower priority.  NFA background checks get done when the FBI has time to do them if they are not instant.

ATF used to use FIFO for F1/F4/F5 applications under old business process.  Now it moves an application forward once a response from FBI NICS has been received; F1/F4/F5 with a FBI NICS response are not stacked up behind others waiting on the FBI NICS response.

If you submit as an individual and you typically get through FBI NICS instantly when you purchase a Title I firearm then your F1/F4/F5 will be processed quickly.  If you are delayed every time then it will take longer because there is no federal mandate on the FBI to respond to an NFA NICS background check in three days.  If your FBI NICS never gets a response (remains "Open" when purchasing a Title I firearm and the dealer simply transfers on the third business day) then F1/F4/F5 will take a very long time because ATF doesn't move forward until it gets a response from FBI NICS.

Providing SSN, especially if you constantly are delayed or have a common name, speeds up F1/F4/F5 application.  Some transferees refuse to put the SSN on the form due to concerns about PII theft.  Either you trust your FFL or you don't.

Transferees need to get a UPIN if they are always delayed or if FBI NICS never sends a response to the FFL for a Title I transfer (status remains "Open" forever) if they want to improve their F1/F4/F5 processing times.

If multiple applications for one individual are made same day then ATF "bundles" them and one FBI NICS background check is used for all of them.

ATF business process for individual F1/F4/F5 has been streamlined so once FBI NICS response is received the F1/F4/F5 process at ATF finishes quickly (within hours).

Some examiners do only individual applications, others do only trust applications.

ATF business process for trust F1/F4/F5 hasn't been streamlined yet, that is going to be worked out over the next few months.

Even if there is a new process, trust transfers will always take longer than individual due to complexity, requirement to review the trust document language for state legality and completeness, and greater possibility of error (e.g. number of trustees is greater than number of submitted 5320.23 forms).  It sounds like the trust process is faster if each RP on the trust has an eForms account rather than just the primary trustee who is submitting the eF1/eF4.

Trusts where just one person is listed as the settlor, trustee, and beneficiary are not legal (merger doctrine).

Trust will be delayed if any RP background check is delayed by FBI NICS.  Some trust F1/F4's have been submitted where a trustee / trust applicant is a minor which is also a problem.

If trust has language that beneficiary may possess or shoot the firearm, even if only in the presence of the trustee, then the beneficiary must also submit an RP.

ATF will deny F1/F4/F5 because FBI NICS returns a "Deny" response.  The applicant has to fix the problem with the FBI NICS because ATF is not given info on why the background check was denied.  Use same appeal process as for a Title I "Deny" response, and expect to get a UPIN in the future.

Third-party certifications with eForms are not legal and an FFL/SOT who does it will have access to the system revoked.  Certifications must be done by the actual transferor and transferee.  So, don't be using a PIN from someone else and don't give your PIN to anyone.

eForms application is currently being updated to permit certain data corrections to the form instead of instant denial and resubmit needed; the update should be released in a month or so.

Currently 96% of applications are eForms versus paper forms.

While the federal statute requires applicants to submit fingerprints, neither the ATF nor the FBI use them for anything.

Good breakdown, thanks for the writeup

"Trusts where just one person is listed as the settlor, trustee, and beneficiary are not legal (merger doctrine)."


Is this a change?

Ie:Single shot trusts

Isn’t the beneficiary the person who inherits the trust when the settlor and all trustees pass away?  If so, how can it be the same person?

Whoa!   That’s a huge update/change.

Yet I had two eForm 4's to Single Shot Trusts approved this morning.

Single Shot Trusts have only a single Trustee and do not list beneficiaries.

Like I said, I am reporting on what I saw and heard.  Hopefully the audio and slide show will be available for public viewing at some point.

I know, I'm just saying the Single Shot Trust doesn't seem to meet this statement: "Trusts where just one person is listed as the settlor, trustee, and beneficiary are not legal (merger doctrine)."

Was this the Davidsons webinar?

Appreciate the time and effort that went into making this information available, OP. You're good people.

Thank you for posting that summary report!

Sounds like speedy approvals should become the new normal.

Could be going out on a speculative limb with this on F4s  ….

But if 96-ish % of current F4s are efiled F4s, that means the filing of paper F4s has shrunk dramatically and the number of paper F4s now sitting on examiners’ desks is way down from what it was even 5 years ago.

So might we expect to see a shortening of approval times for those of us who’ve filed paper F4s (assume these are individual F4s, not trusts, and the applicant’s SSN is included on both the F4 and FP cards)?

ah gotcha, just saw it and immediately thought of single shot trust's

If they just said "applicants" then that figure includes all the eF2s, eF3, and eF5s submitted, which are quite substantial.

Good write up. Still dont understand how i can have a 2 day approval trhough a local dealer 1st week of march but am a week in on a f4 with capitol armory.
Both were done individual and electronic prints.

Edit

Because Capitol Armory has to mail a copy of your 4473 to your local CLEO.
See ATF Proc. 2020-1 – Recordkeeping procedure for non-over-the-counter firearm sales by licensees to unlicensed in-state residents that are NICS exempt

It takes longer because of that process.

I get that, but isn't all that done after Form 4 approval? I haven't done a 4473 yet as ATF has not approved the form 4.

Correct.
Sorry I misread. I took your post to mean you were a week in after an approval.

I got a UPIN and since then I'm still delayed for Title 1 and the wait is even longer, lol.

So what are ATF examiners doing with the fewer paper F1s/F4s being submitted …… letting them just sit?

No, the host was James Vann at the ATF.

UPIN will seldom get you instant proceeds. It will often prevent getting denied for NFA stuff with an open background check though.

UPIN should be treated as a bandaid for most people, not a long term/permanent fix. If there is something in your background, either mistaken identity, incorrect/incomplete court information, or something that is causing the delay in the first place. Correcting that would be a more permanent fix to continuing delays. You can request an IdHS from the FBI to get an idea of where the delays come from.

Thanks for the information. Knowing some of what happens behind the scenes takes away the guessing from ignorance.



I was always having a 40-60 minutes wait for a NICS check for a Title 1 firearm, even when using my social. I requested an IdHS and it came back clean. Applied for a UPIN and now my NICS checks for Tilte 1s are within minutes.

Now for NFA stuff......I'm not fast at all like the other folks, but I also apply with an 18 page NFA Trust.

It is fun walking into a gun store and all the clerics are shocked I have a UPIN.

With Upin, my Title 1 delays usually get a proceed before I leave the store. NFA stuff is about average, unless I end up lost in the system. Usually emailing the NICS liaison and having a human look at it gets it cleared up quickly though.

I spent a bunch of time and money only to find out that NICS has arrest info(driving w/o seatbelt) on me they shouldn’t have and my state won’t expunge moving violations. I’ll likely have to continue using my UPIN indefinitely.

From my IdHS.

Unfortunately, I have several things on my record from back in 1979. I have my BGC report from almost 20 years ago from when I got my first carry permit in Georgia and it is fairly confusing. I’m afraid I’ll never get a quick return. I’ve gotten my carry permit renewed 3 times now and I currently have 2 suppressors and one SBR. One suppressor was initially denied until I worked with an examiner and eventually got it approved after I got a new control number. The other suppressor and eForm 1 for the SBR went through with approvals. I have 2 more suppressors in jail now. One from 11/27/23 and one from 1/17/24. Have a feeling I’m in for the long haul… Doesn’t sound like a UPIN will do me much good either. Oh well…

It absolutely can help. It just likely won’t be as fast as instant/automated NICS approvals.

It still requires a human to approve it, but all the research and info they need review is already there, saved and stored in your VAF.

What was happening prior to you getting a UPIN?

That's the only arrest record you've got?
Sucks you can't get it expunged. You might see if the submitting agency (indicated by ORI) can submit a corrected FBI Final Disposition Report Form (R-84) to update the Court Provision Literal (CPL) field to specify what the penalty was, since I'm not seeing it there.

That's generally what NICS looks for after seeing any arrest. They need to know the final disposition and whether it could've been felony-grade or not. That's always what they're checking out when the result says "pending research". Everyone should know seatbelt offenses are misdemeanor/traffic but I guess that could still cause the delay. If it said "Fine $125 PAID/SATISFIED" on there then the delays might stop.

I don't submit R-84 at my agency so I know just enough to be dangerous. lol
You might find out who submits those in your jurisdiction and see what they think. At my agency it's our deputy warden in the Jail, but they talk a lot with the Criminal Records division about that stuff since that's usually the office people go to for expungements or disposition updates.

Around here, I see people pay attorneys for expungements sometimes, but rarely do the attorneys know as much as the personnel who actually submit the forms (although if they were my attorney I'd expect them to! lol)

Some agencies might not do it for you without a court order, but it's not a huge challenge to type one up and have it signed by the duty judge. You can do it yourself although that's typically something a client would pay an attorney to do.

Prior to UPIN I could pick Title I stuff up after 3 business days. Since using UPIN, I get an approval after a few minutes on hold.

With NFA stuff, last year eForm 1s w/o my Upin took 7 months, with Upin they were around 60 days for approval.

Yes. That’s all there is. The arresting agency and NICS have been super helpful through it all. NICS confirmed what you mentioned, the court info lacks whether it’s misdemeanor or felony.  The difficult people to deal with has been the state reporting agency, and of course getting those 3 agencies to communicate is like herding cats.

I'd go for the court order then.

Show up with it and a pre-filled R-84 for them and there won't really be anything they can balk at.

Hopefully.  I have multiple paper form 4s waiting approval that date between July and October of last year.  Granted, they are all transfers to a trust, but it is a trust the NFA Branch has approved of multiple times in the past.  I submitted paper instead of efile because at the time efile wasn't really any quicker and didn't allow corrections.  Plus, two of them are MGs and I'd just be more comfortable with a physical stamp for those.

That sucks, my plan with one of my trusts is to get a whole bunch of stuff then add people later to get around the gay rules

This is still lawful. ATF doesn’t control trust law.  A trust with one person as settler and sole trustee, and a different person as a beneficiary (with no stated powers or responsibilities) should be the easiest to process per the above.

Lawful post approval changes to a trust (or AFAIK similarly employee changes at a corporation) don’t require any approval or notification.  You can add or remove lawful trustees at will.  At least this has how it’s been. I don’t see how the above changes that, but IANAL.

I didn't leave any beneficiaries because I don't want the the Federal government to know that information ahead of time.

I basically wanted a blank slate to leave people in my life NFA items

You can change beneficiaries post approval.  Name your local police chief as beneficiary on the submitted trust if you want (sarcasm). Change it later to someone else expected to be able to inherit it in the future, and also consider contingent beneficiaries (shit happens) .

Either way, when it eventually transfers on a Form 5, unless that beneficiary at that time is itself an entity, an alterable-in-the-future trust, the chain of custody is legible.  However, something of high value like expensive transferable MGs your $200 registration and loss of privacy could also be considered as a useful trade for what’s essentially a recorded title, where an explicit identity might be useful.

For a trust to be legitimate a beneficiary of the trust is required. IIRC Silencer Shop trusts simply state it’s the estate of the grantor which apparently is legal without being explicit.  

For all the concerns around trusts I haven’t seen any popular evidence they get abused or cause problems so this webinar seems a good development that their continued use for legitimate property and estate controls remains an option.

I am pretty schitzo about it.

I have a before fingerprints trust which has been legit done by attorneys.

Now I'm getting a new trust per item, and assigning beneficiaries and continent beneficiaries after approval.

My goal is that the next generation inherits perfectly legal NFA items, while the government has no fucking clue who has them or where they are.

I just bought a Trust at Silencer Shop. I plan on adding family later (but I think Whiskers plan is much better,  leave til EOL). I have 1 singleshot for a can I bought last year. So, what am I looking for as far as turnaround times for Form 1's and form 4's?

TLDR.

Agreed thanks!

I haven't had this happen to me, but I could've sworn I've read other people complaining that they got rejected because they had bad fingerprint copies taken.  Is fingerprints not being used for anything a recent development?

No idea.  I can say that I've never had fingerprint cards kicked back for a do-over in 16 years of rolling them manually though.

Even is the recent past they didn't normally use the fingerprints.  The normal process is a standard NICS check, just like when you buy a firearm at an FFL, but if that check wasn't an immediate "proceed" and was instead a delay, then they would send the FP cards and everything to the FBI for further review.

But I could see that if they opened the package and saw the prints were really poorly done or not done correctly (on the required card, filled out fully, etc.), they might kick it back then for failing to submit the required "usable" prints.

I've never seen any get rejected by FBI for ATF prints either. I've been a fingerprinting data manager for 10 years at a LE agency.
The state police reject ours several times a year, or used to. Their rejection rate got lower.

EFT files are the best way (when applicable) but rolling your own (or printing duplicated cards) works fine too.

Does anyone have any idea on how long trust approvals are taking now?

Attached File

Anecdotally, it seems SS trusts are getting approved quickly, but traditional trusts are still taking a while.

My FFL has said they've seen several SS trusts come back in a week or so, but hasn't seen a single traditional trust approved with the current fast times yet.

My paper form 4 will hit the PO box tomorrow. We shall see how long it takes.

LOL. That explains a lot.  I roll my own. Some have been pretty bad and I just send them.  I always figured my first set was digitized and they always used what they already had in the system.

Why can't a NICS check be good for a much wider window of time?  Say at least a year? or have a frequent NFA form that is used for a wide window of time.

If one can get a pre-screening for flying why not for NFA?