User Panel
Posted: 10/16/2020 9:36:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cone256]
I've only done SBRs but do SBS's need engraving when you Form 1? I messaged Wilson Combat to see if they would do it if I sent them in a shotgun to rework after I Form 1 it. They said they've never heard of such a thing and their people say it's not required. So are SBS' treated differently than SBRs?
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Guns don't kill people, the gubbermint does.
PA, USA
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They're wrong.
26 USC 5842 Each manufacturer and importer and anyone making a firearm shall identify each firearm, other than a destructive device, manufactured, imported, or made by a serial number which may not be readily removed, obliterated, or altered, the name of the manufacturer, importer, or maker, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe. View Quote 27 CFR 479.102 You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows: (2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes: (i) The model, if such designation has been made; (ii) The caliber or gauge; (iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker; (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and (v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134. View Quote |
What a long strange trip it's been...
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I'm no expert, but if you filed a form 1, and are converting a regular firearm to an an NFA item, then I don't see how it is different from doing the same with, say, an AR15 lower, and therefore it would need to be engraved.
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View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By SuperMoose: They're wrong. 26 USC 5842 Each manufacturer and importer and anyone making a firearm shall identify each firearm, other than a destructive device, manufactured, imported, or made by a serial number which may not be readily removed, obliterated, or altered, the name of the manufacturer, importer, or maker, and such other identification as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe. 27 CFR 479.102 You, as a manufacturer, importer, or maker of a firearm, must legibly identify the firearm as follows: (2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes: (i) The model, if such designation has been made; (ii) The caliber or gauge; (iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker; (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and (v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134. Yep that's what I thought. I've SBR'd a few rifles but this would be my first SBS so I wanted to double check there wasn't a difference. Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By Deny_Everything: I'm no expert, but if you filed a form 1, and are converting a regular firearm to an an NFA item, then I don't see how it is different from doing the same with, say, an AR15 lower, and therefore it would need to be engraved. View Quote This is a discussion that has been going in for a while. I just SBS'd my tac-14. Did I shorten the BBL? Did I alter any permanent part of the gun? It came, with the exception of the stock, in it's current configuration FROM THE MANUFACTURER/MAKER. I didn't make the gun. Now if I had shortened the BBL myself, that's another matter. I realize there will be some that will STRENUOUSLY disagree, usually with a veiled threat that the AFT will be coming for me. Which lends itself to noticing the number of prosecutions for failing to "properly" engrave the gun. We sqeal as a community when we hear about something the AFT is doing so that ain't happening. Not only that but from what I read above even Wilson a WELL KNOWN manufacturer doesn't mess with it because.... they engrave their info because they are the maker. It tickles me sometimes when people state that a professional business is wrong. Huh? |
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Shoot straight and tell the truth!
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I did a Tac-14 SBS
It was not approved because I chose “Tac-14” from the drop down for “model” The correct answer was “870” Trying to make sense of the ATF is futile. They do ask for pics of the markings or something which they didn’t in the past. Mine was engraved. Just like the SBRs I’ve done. |
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If you are wearing a Lab Coat and safety glasses you can't get hurt
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Originally Posted By sgtgeo: I did a Tac-14 SBS It was not approved because I chose "Tac-14" from the drop down for "model" The correct answer was "870" Trying to make sense of the ATF is futile. They do ask for pics of the markings or something which they didn't in the past. Mine was engraved. Just like the SBRs I've done. View Quote LOL I had the same issue. I sent pics of non-engraved gun. Got approved in less than a month. |
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Shoot straight and tell the truth!
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My nephews Form 1 got approved a couple weeks ago. I’m assuming that same stamp will be on my SBS form 1 when it gets here.
Attached File |
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Originally Posted By TNRonin: This is a discussion that has been going in for a while. I just SBS'd my tac-14. Did I shorten the BBL? Did I alter any permanent part of the gun? It came, with the exception of the stock, in it's current configuration FROM THE MANUFACTURER/MAKER. I didn't make the gun. Now if I had shortened the BBL myself, that's another matter. I realize there will be some that will STRENUOUSLY disagree, usually with a veiled threat that the AFT will be coming for me. Which lends itself to noticing the number of prosecutions for failing to "properly" engrave the gun. We sqeal as a community when we hear about something the AFT is doing so that ain't happening. Not only that but from what I read above even Wilson a WELL KNOWN manufacturer doesn't mess with it because.... they engrave their info because they are the maker. It tickles me sometimes when people state that a professional business is wrong. Huh? View Quote |
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Originally Posted By TNRonin: This is a discussion that has been going in for a while. I just SBS'd my tac-14. Did I shorten the BBL? Did I alter any permanent part of the gun? It came, with the exception of the stock, in it's current configuration FROM THE MANUFACTURER/MAKER. I didn't make the gun. Now if I had shortened the BBL myself, that's another matter. I realize there will be some that will STRENUOUSLY disagree, usually with a veiled threat that the AFT will be coming for me. Which lends itself to noticing the number of prosecutions for failing to "properly" engrave the gun. We sqeal as a community when we hear about something the AFT is doing so that ain't happening. Not only that but from what I read above even Wilson a WELL KNOWN manufacturer doesn't mess with it because.... they engrave their info because they are the maker. It tickles me sometimes when people state that a professional business is wrong. Huh? View Quote It tickles me when people are willfully ignorant and think that a business telling them something is better than the actual law which hasn't changed in a long time. You made a SBS. Federal law is clear on what a maker need to do when making a firearm. You filled out a form the title of which is "Application to Make and Register a Firearm" Seems pretty clear to me. Just because you get away with something or they don't enforce doesn't mean it's legal. |
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BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles. People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird. |
Based on the digging today, I'm gonna go ahead and get my FFL to laser engrave my SBR and SBS.
And for the record it's not wilfull ignorance that kept me from engraving, and it's certainly not being convinced by the hubris displayed here. |
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Shoot straight and tell the truth!
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Originally Posted By TNRonin: Based on the digging today, I'm gonna go ahead and get my FFL to laser engrave my SBR and SBS. And for the record it's not wilfull ignorance that kept me from engraving, and it's certainly not being convinced by the hubris displayed here. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TNRonin: Based on the digging today, I'm gonna go ahead and get my FFL to laser engrave my SBR and SBS. And for the record it's not wilfull ignorance that kept me from engraving, and it's certainly not being convinced by the hubris displayed here. 12 hours makes a lot of difference. It's pretty bold to call others out for hubris when I was just matching your energy and you came out swinging with Originally Posted By TNRonin: It tickles me sometimes when people state that a professional business is wrong. Huh? I am glad you came around to engraving. One less thing to get hassled over. Great example of how silly our system is. |
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BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles. People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird. |
I had my barrel engraved. That way it doesn't make the receiver look like ass on my Benelli.
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I engraved my barrel also. Short barrel on-sbs. Long barrel on- shotgun.
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I don’t think engraving a barrel is acceptable for a new SBS/SBR. I think the regulations changed in 2023.
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Originally Posted By TNRonin: This is a discussion that has been going in for a while. I just SBS'd my tac-14. Did I shorten the BBL? Did I alter any permanent part of the gun? It came, with the exception of the stock, in it's current configuration FROM THE MANUFACTURER/MAKER. I didn't make the gun. Now if I had shortened the BBL myself, that's another matter. I realize there will be some that will STRENUOUSLY disagree, usually with a veiled threat that the AFT will be coming for me. Which lends itself to noticing the number of prosecutions for failing to "properly" engrave the gun. We sqeal as a community when we hear about something the AFT is doing so that ain't happening. Not only that but from what I read above even Wilson a WELL KNOWN manufacturer doesn't mess with it because.... they engrave their info because they are the maker. It tickles me sometimes when people state that a professional business is wrong. Huh? View Quote Personally, I don’t care what you do, but did you fill out and submit a Form 1? That form is entitled “Application to Make and Register a Firearm.” If you filled out the Form 1, and it was approved, AND you are now in possession of an NFA firearm as a result, guess what? You are a “Maker,” and required to mark the firearm as described above. You seem confused as to what constitutes “Making” an NFA firearm, when the word is specifically defined in 27 CFR 479.11, and the definition of which INCLUDES EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID TO YOUR SHOTGUN. Edit: Should have read further down the thread, lol. |
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: It tickles me when people are willfully ignorant and think that a business telling them something is better than the actual law which hasn't changed in a long time. You made a SBS. Federal law is clear on what a maker need to do when making a firearm. You filled out a form the title of which is "Application to Make and Register a Firearm" Seems pretty clear to me. Just because you get away with something or they don't enforce doesn't mean it's legal. View Quote |
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“As long as none of us gets hurt, we’re making memories.” - one GA trooper to another after shooting HOSTAGE 9 times
Their SHAME has become their PRIDE |
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