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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:44:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
Hi everyone, I'm new here, so sorry to keep this really brief until I can post over 2000 characters. I am having very good luck with Federal brass, which many online consider trash. Considering the options today, Federal brass is insanely cheap, close to half price of Lake City in my store. I was given some old Federal brass 20+ years old, and they are different. The color is different, the old brass looks almost like copper. And the size is different too, the older brass is about .001" smaller at the head than newer brass. It does seem the old Federal brass does loosen at the primer pocket, but that is not a problem I have had with the newer stuff. The easiest way to tell is the newer Federal brass, which has been the case for at least 15 years, is the blue primer sealant. The new brass is good brass. I hope this helps someone save some money.
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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:45:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#1]
I realize the images do not show up great. The first picture has a new case, two old cases, and a new case in that order. You can see the older brass has a red copper color compared to newer brass. The second picture shows the stamping, which is hard to tell even in person, but the older brass has smaller stamping than new brass. The third picture is the old brass, and the fourth is the new brass. It is pretty tough to tell the new from the old from a distance. The easiest way is to look for the brass with the blue primer sealant, which is all of the brass I find anymore. The old Federal brass which people hated seems to be a thing of the past.
I would love to hear how the new Federal brass is working for others, it's lasting every bit as long as Winchester for me, and it's way cheaper. The local store has it once fired for $20 for 100, which is the cheapest 308 brass I've seen since 2019. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:49:49 PM EDT
[#2]
It’s soft brass but for $20/1000 I’d buy it. Brass quality doesn’t make much of a difference in groups…just longevity. I use regular LC brass (not even LR), reload it 4 times, and chuck it. It still gives 1/2 MOa groups more it of my TRG.
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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 9:58:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cms81586: It’s soft brass but for $20/1000 I’d buy it. Brass quality doesn’t make much of a difference in groups…just longevity. I use regular LC brass (not even LR), reload it 4 times, and chuck it. It still gives 1/2 MOa groups more it of my TRG. Is it though? In a bolt action, or mostly I shoot a single shot, I've gotten over 15 reloads on the new Federal brass, which is every bit as good as Lake City. I do anneal my cases which is necessary if you want to keep consistent neck tension over time. In a semi auto, they can damage brass, and a lot of times I just loose it. Despite M1A's being known to be hard on brass, mine is not that horrible. I will disagree, brass can make a significant difference in groups, but its a matter of how much do you need? I don't shoot long range competitions, I'm mostly a hunter. At 300 yards the difference between a Lapua and a Federal case just doesn't matter much. I used to shoot mostly Lake City, but they were like $40 for 500 cases 10 years ago. I do like Lake City, but I am not seeing anything that makes them better than a Federal case. Certainly nothing that justifies nearly double the price, and you still have to go through the trouble of sizing machine gun brass, and swaging primer pockets. The Federal brass has none of those issues. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:08:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: Is it though? In a bolt action, or mostly I shoot a single shot, I've gotten over 15 reloads on the new Federal brass, which is every bit as good as Lake City. I do anneal my cases which is necessary if you want to keep consistent neck tension over time. In a semi auto, they can damage brass, and a lot of times I just loose it. Despite M1A's being known to be hard on brass, mine is not that horrible. I will disagree, brass can make a significant difference in groups, but its a matter of how much do you need? I don't shoot long range competitions, I'm mostly a hunter. At 300 yards the difference between a Lapua and a Federal case just doesn't matter much. I used to shoot mostly Lake City, but they were like $40 for 500 cases 10 years ago. I do like Lake City, but I am not seeing anything that makes them better than a Federal case. Certainly nothing that justifies nearly double the price, and you still have to go through the trouble of sizing machine gun brass, and swaging primer pockets. The Federal brass has none of those issues. Sounds like you have the answer then. I’m not a brass snob. My loads are border line spicy and I don’t anneal or keep brass around to wait for the web to start thinning out. 4 reloads and the trash is my rule. I still have 5 gal buckets full of LC, Korean TAA, and some commercial brass too. Use what you got. For $20/1000 I’d be using that if I didn’t have any left in my stockpile. |
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:24:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Welcome to Arfcom and the Reloading Forum.
 Until you get 50 posts your pics won't show until they are approved by 2 Team Members. Run out of character's, just start a new post, like I see you already did. That too will go away in time. One bit of advice, notice how I'm double spacing after complete sentences? Due to the custom code on this site it makes your posts much easier to read. Otherwise your post is one long paragraph and being difficult to read, many won't. So you get less answers. Now to your question, I'm one who won't bother to load FC rifle brass. I consider it trash. Their pistol brass is my favorite. Go figure. 15 years ago I prepped and tried to prime 100 308 cases. The primer pockets were loose, so I scrapped the batch. Happened again in 223 and 338 Win Mag once fired cases. Hours wasted tumbling, sizing, trimming, removing flashole burr all wasted with soft cases. So I gave up on rifle FC cases. If they have gotten better in the present that's fine, I don't want them. I realize many load rifle FC cases and claim to not have issues. I'm happy for them. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/29/2024 10:51:14 PM EDT
[#6]
That's long enough ago you may have been loading the older brass. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the newer Federal brass. I'm not loading hot loads, but I'm not loading starting loads either.
A lot of what I've been shooting in the Federal brass in the last year has been 39.5gr IMR 3031 and a 180gr Hornady interlock. I have had no issues with cases separating either, although shooting in the semi auto is a whole new set of problem. I don't get nearly as many reloads from them. 4 loads is a safe number for semi autos, but I push it farther than that. This comes with the caveat that you have to inspect a handful of cases to make sure they aren't separating. I also anneal my brass because I want consistent neck tension, not to make them last longer, and I try to anneal every time. I do that for consistent neck tension, and it is work, but it's a cost free step you can do which makes a measurable difference. You can measure the more consistent head space, and you can measure the more consistent velocity. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 2:04:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Federal .223 Rem brass from years near 2000 had thin webs and should be limited to start loads.
Unfortunately measuring is the only way to know. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 5:11:15 AM EDT
[#8]
the majority of my brass from the past 10 years has been from a bulk purchase of federal gmm 175 and some 168's.
then i decided to get into reloading. i have had great success and multiple sucessfull reloads with them. neck trimming is MUCH easier than like posted above LC brass. because the Federal IS softer. so if you do everything by hand(me) federal doesn't seem to bad of a deal. issues with primer pockets? i've used primarily Federal match primers, which i have almost depleted so i switched to CCI> maybe 2 pieces out of 1k that the primer started to fall out after multiple reloads. try them out. if they don't work for you leave them at your range |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 5:32:34 AM EDT
[#9]
I have never heard that about Federal .308 brass. I've been loading them for a few years now without issue, but I have only been loading .308 for 3 years now. All I have is Federal and NATO, and I hate decrimping primer pockets.
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Posted: 4/30/2024 11:11:53 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: That's long enough ago you may have been loading the older brass. I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the newer Federal brass. I'm not loading hot loads, but I'm not loading starting loads either. A lot of what I've been shooting in the Federal brass in the last year has been 39.5gr IMR 3031 and a 180gr Hornady interlock. I have had no issues with cases separating either, although shooting in the semi auto is a whole new set of problem. I don't get nearly as many reloads from them. 4 loads is a safe number for semi autos, but I push it farther than that. This comes with the caveat that you have to inspect a handful of cases to make sure they aren't separating. I also anneal my brass because I want consistent neck tension, not to make them last longer, and I try to anneal every time. I do that for consistent neck tension, and it is work, but it's a cost free step you can do which makes a measurable difference. You can measure the more consistent head space, and you can measure the more consistent velocity. I have plenty of quality brass. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 11:20:25 AM EDT
[#11]
No Federal brass has not change in the past few years. It is still soft. It does not have good case life with just doing standard prep. Federal brass back the 80s was good stuff and worth reloading for sure.
Then Federal gained a bad rep with thin case heads among other complaints. The over all consensus of their rifle line up had been same old same old.. Soft and with a few firings people experience expanded primer pockets. Anyone can polish a turd. For me I sort out Federal and Winchester 45 ACP brass for use in my 625's moon clips, just for easy identification when I sort the brass. All the rest can get beat up out of semi auto guns. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 11:27:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel]
[#12]
I am another that put a lot of hand prep time in to .308 FC brass and I got two loads out of it before the pockets were loosening. Almost zero effort to prime them, I slipped the few primers back out and put them in the scrap bucket. Irksome after cleaning siziing, trimming, uniforming pockets and deburring the flash holes. This was in the nineties to early 2000 time frame.
I have heard a few say they’re not as soft anymore but I too haven’t bothered. I had some Federal Classic nickel plated .300 win mag. They started splitting longitudinally after the factory ammo sat in the wall locker for twenty years and then I figured I’d fire off the remaining factory loads and work up a load. I was disappointed. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 11:40:15 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot:. The local store has it once fired for $20 for 1000, which is the cheapest 308 brass I've seen since 2019. Is that a typo? I've never seen any 308 for 2 cents/case. If that's correct then I'd buy it even if I could only load it once. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:01:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Federal brass is softer. So what.
I like it, have some that have 10 reloads (.308, formerly FGMM) on them and will reload them again. I am watching primer pockets. A buddy gave me several hundred after I burned up some other brass. I learned all about work hardening and subsequently po'boy annealing using that Federal brass. For those that feel it is trash, PM me, I will dispose of it for you. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:18:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SteelonSteel: I am another that put a lot of hand prep time in to .308 FC brass and I got two loads out of it before the pockets were loosening. Almost zero effort to prime them, I slipped the few primers back out and put them in the scrap bucket. Irksome after cleaning siziing, trimming, uniforming pockets and deburring the flash holes. This was in the nineties to early 2000 time frame. I have heard a few say they’re not as soft anymore but I too haven’t bothered. I had some Federal Classic nickel plated .300 win mag. They started splitting longitudinally after the factory ammo sat in the wall locker for twenty years and then I figured I’d fire off the remaining factory loads and work up a load. I was disappointed. Yes, sorry about that. It is $20 for 100. I corrected it. Here are the current prices at my store, which are comparable, or less than what I'm seeing online Per 100 cases Federal $20 Winchester (out of stock) $25 Remington (just back in stock) $25 Lake City unprocessed $30 Lake City Match $35 They have others too, but those are the lower price options. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:24:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rn22723: No Federal brass has not change in the past few years. It is still soft. It does not have good case life with just doing standard prep. Federal brass back the 80s was good stuff and worth reloading for sure. Then Federal gained a bad rep with thin case heads among other complaints. The over all consensus of their rifle line up had been same old same old.. Soft and with a few firings people experience expanded primer pockets. Anyone can polish a turd. For me I sort out Federal and Winchester 45 ACP brass for use in my 625's moon clips, just for easy identification when I sort the brass. All the rest can get beat up out of semi auto guns. No I don't think it has changed in the past few years. It seems to have changed about 15-20 years ago. You can see in my first post, it absolutely did change. Now the question is the new brass good? In my opinion it is. Everyone is free to their own opinion. |
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:29:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Federal GMM cases are softer than LC and don't last nearly as long.
Proper annealing of LC cases worked best for me. I got access to bunches of Federal GMM brass so I used it. Accuracy wise, properly prepared LC and GMM were equal, LC just lasted longer. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 12:32:46 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armoredman: I have never heard that about Federal .308 brass. I've been loading them for a few years now without issue, but I have only been loading .308 for 3 years now. All I have is Federal and NATO, and I hate decrimping primer pockets. If it weren't for the internet, I never would have known either. There's easy way to decrimp pockets now, a LOT better than the old methods such as a reamer, or even that RCBS kit that went in a press and was a PITA. There's even stuff that goes right in a progressive press now. The cheapest and most effective method I have found is from Lee, the APP press combined with their primer pocket swager is slick as snot. You can swage 500 cases in no time. The APP press is an extremely nice thing to have for processing LC cases. How I used to do it was first de-prime, then swage. I would then anneal my cases. Then wash them. Then size them, sometimes straight full length size, but went to a body sizing, then neck sizing two step. Finally trim and they are ready for use. By comparison these Federal cases come clean enough, I anneal them, size them, trim them, and washing is optional. I usually run them through the wet tumbler. Sizing is easier on the Federal too since they are rifle fired, not machine gun fired. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 1:06:23 PM EDT
[#19]
I recently scored some FC military brass (FC with a date headstamp) which I'm assuming is similar to LC brass, but time will tell. It had crimped PP.
People thinking FC brass is crap helps keep the price down :) but I'd |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 1:37:16 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By phdog: I recently scored some FC military brass (FC with a date headstamp) which I'm assuming is similar to LC brass, but time will tell. It had crimped PP. People thinking FC brass is crap helps keep the price down :) but I'd Is that American Eagle brass? Last I heard American Eagle is Lake City brass. I can't say I've heard of any special Federal made brass. Unless you are talking about 5.56 brass, which all of it is crimped, even regular old FC. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 1:42:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By phdog: I recently scored some FC military brass (FC with a date headstamp) which I'm assuming is similar to LC brass, but time will tell. It had crimped PP. People thinking FC brass is crap helps keep the price down :) but I'd It's not the greatest brass ever. No amount of brass prep will ever make it as consistent as Lapua or Nosler, and that goes for any typical brass Winchester, Remington, Hornady or whatever. Apparently Federal brass doesn't work great for some things, go figure, same as Lapua would be terrible for blasting ammo unless you were rich. Still, for 308/7.62 loading within listed loading manuals, Federal brass does a fine job, and the lower price can't be ignored. It's way cheaper than LC right now, which takes considerably more work to prep the first time (it's the same from then on). I'm only trying to share info that might help those trying to find good quality brass for cheap. Federal is good quality, it's not trash. Whether it does the job you want it to do is for you to decide. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 2:38:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: Is that American Eagle brass? Last I heard American Eagle is Lake City brass. I can't say I've heard of any special Federal made brass. Unless you are talking about 5.56 brass, which all of it is crimped, even regular old FC. Not sure, but I assume American Eagle would have an AE headstamp. This says FC 11. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/30/2024 11:42:27 PM EDT
[#23]
I love FGMM .308 brass, despite some thinking it's garbage.
Some speculate that the brass (softer?) is the reason that FGMM shoots so well across a variety of platforms You won't get a lot of cycles out it it, but for 4-5 (IME) cycles, it's doable. Chris |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 1:11:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rn22723]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fgshoot: Yes, sorry about that. It is $20 for 100. I corrected it. Here are the current prices at my store, which are comparable, or less than what I'm seeing online Per 100 cases Federal $20 Winchester (out of stock) $25 Remington (just back in stock) $25 Lake City unprocessed $30 Lake City Match $35 They have others too, but those are the lower price options. Unreal The prices are you are quoting on commercial brass are a joke. Sorry. If you are talking brand new brass you are not even close....Winchester Commercial factory packaged brass wholesales for nearly 30 per bag of 50. You can not find Remington brass hardly ever. Federal brass factory packaged surely you jest If you are talking once fired brass you must be looking through turn back time glasses. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 4:03:21 PM EDT
[#25]
If Federal is free (range pick ups, etc), I'll take it and use it, even if once fired.
I would not buy Federal brass. I would not buy Federal GMM ammo, either, as the brass isn't great and my handloads are a lot more accurate. I just checked a few prices - Winchester (my fave), Remington, Lake City, Hornady, Federal, Sig-Sauer are all available once fired and processed (ready to load) for $17/50 cases. In factory new, supplies are scarce and costly (2X). |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 5:13:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Possible with the copper color someone use a additive that removed zinc from the brass making it soft.
Different than annealing which simply removes or prevent work hardening. The 1990 Federal brass on average was some if the best domestic brass their was. 45 colt and 44 mag especially. |
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SD, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 5:58:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: fgshoot]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rn22723: Unreal The prices are you are quoting on commercial brass are a joke. Sorry. If you are talking brand new brass you are not even close....Winchester Commercial factory packaged brass wholesales for nearly 30 per bag of 50. You can not find Remington brass hardly ever. Federal brass factory packaged surely you jest If you are talking once fired brass you must be looking through turn back time glasses. I am not jesting. Those are the prices today for once fired cases at my local store. You can buy them too if you pay shipping. That is Sleeping Giant brass here in Aberdeen, SD. Our brand new in bag Winchester I want to say was $50 or $55. Don't quote me on that one. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 6:43:25 PM EDT
[#28]
I have said this numerous times. Federal was not striking the head web one last time to harden the head. That is why it seems soft. It is a cost cutting feature. The brass composition is the same as everyone else uses. The 308w brass is some of the best for weight difference in the USA made brass. It has always giving me the best groups out of any other US made brass. It is very consistent in weight and thickness. It is a hair thicker in the neck than other brass and that is a good thing on production rifle chambers.
Th FC 223/556 brass is where most of the brass got its bad name. I still load it for throw away brass that will get lost. So keep thinking it is soft and garbage. Leave more for me. |
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Posted: 5/1/2024 6:57:32 PM EDT
[#29]
I forgot to add that I got the same velocity from Federal GMM as I did from LC Match brass with same powder charges of Varget.
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SD, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2024 7:28:22 PM EDT
[#30]
I have not tried LC match brass, but my Federal brass has quite a bit more volume than my LC standard brass which was mostly 2010-2015 stamps. I don't remember the water weight off the top of my head, but in terms of velocity, I think its pretty much a full grain of powder more needed for the Federal.
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