Wanting to get as much as information as possible about the attached folder.
I've searched online and I'm unable to find anything close, and yes, I signed up for an account on FalFiles a couple of months ago, and received no response back.
The buttplate is hard rubber, not metal as the majority of Para folding stocks appear to be.

Looks like an original FN para lower. The stock latch has the correct release button on the bottom. Also looks like serial number was restruck when they swapped the frame locking lever to the horizontal type. Not sure about the rubber buttplate.

There is that electro penciled RA number on it. Possibly Rhodesian or a later fake?

I can't remember the details, but the Rhodesians did make a folder though I don't think it had the sling point on it. Hopefully the knowledgeable people chime in.

looks like the ones Sarco sold a few years ago. is it cut for a nose dust cover?

Thanks for the responses so far. Learning me something new...
I added more pictures, as I'm new to this and have no idea..so hopefully these pictures provide more information...

Other than having the finish removed, and a sling swivel added, it looks like the one I bought from Sportsman's Guide in 2005. People on FAL Files later said they were Rhodesian. Mine also has an electropenciled RA serial number on the lower. Same rubber butt and lock button on the bottom.

Attached File

Thank you.

What upper receiver did you use for your build?

I have learnt so much from this thread, and I even went back through my old Shotgun News and found an ad from Sarco.


I also managed to get my account open on FalFiles, and started a thread over there.

I used a DSA Type I receiver, which was made by LMT at the time. (This can be determined by s/n prefix.)

I had to turn some material off the barrel shoulder to get it to index (which is normal) but everything went together real smooth. Imbel kit, originally on a Type III receiver with a fixed stock. I shortened the barrel to Para length.

I disassembled that para stock to clean it and that was quite difficult. There's a big bolt securing the stock to the the lower, and my bolt has the front split into 4 pieces like flower petals. There's a smaller screw wedging those petals open from the front, and even with it removed the big bolt didn't want to budge, but I finally got it out using a Bridgeport mill (unpowered) as a giant flathead screwdriver lol. It reassembled fine after getting the old gunk out of it. I think that bolt assembly was aluminum too, but it's been 16 years. I looked online at the time and that did not seem to be the usual bolt assembly.

As mentioned, these are the Sarco 'Humper' specials. I have one as well which I built into a SANP/Rhodesian Para bastard child:


My stock has a reduced LOP compared to most, but I rather like it.

I've seen two prevailing theories on these over the years - both revolving around Rhodesia/Zimbabwe:
1. These were an attempt by Rhodesia to produce para stock assemblies for their military. The converted lower receivers which accompanied these (with the aforementioned 'RA' serial numbers) is assumed to support this, as does the relatively solid but crude casting of the stock mechanism and tube spacer, which I believe is resin on almost all examples.
2. These were a gunsmith special in Zimbabwe with old Rhodesian lowers for commercial sale. The theory here is that all the hallmarks of the crude casting support this, as does the relatively non-existent documentation of Para-configuration rifles in Rhodesian service.

Personally I'm inclined to believe a bit of a mix - these may well have been a failed para conversion project (and converted non-Para to Para bolt carriers have shown up with 'RA' markings) for the Rhodesian military but it didn't take off and when arms dealers came calling someone in Zimbabwe made a buck off of some old shelf stock.

I think these were probably a Zimbabwean conversion done after the fall of Rhodesia but before they moved predominantly to Combloc small arms.  There are converted bolt carriers corresponding to these.

All of the folders I've seen in Rhodesian military photos were legit FNs, not conversions.

The idea that they were Rhodesia's attempt to get more folders despite the sanctions is interesting but you would think that these would have been photographed, as they would have been used unless they were done at the tail end of the war.

Bigstick61, I'm guessing you're the same Bigstick61 from FalFiles....?
I appreciate all the feedback so far, as I kind of fell into this lower/folder for a great price, along with an Imbel/West German complete rifle with a baby poop colour scheme.
Having the lower/folder didn't help, as now I am jonesing to build it up into something that comestically makes sense.

I'd buy that first part IF I believed that Zimbabwe had a reason to do so. They stopped fighting (externally), so why go through a FAL conversion project? That's money spent for... well, not a lot? What need would be addressed, and in the midst of internal turmoil a refit of existing FALs to Para conversions wouldn't be what I would consider the first priority especially as Rhodesia never fielded large number of Para FALs.

Also, that second point is exactly what I think happened. We see the conversions done on a series of RA-marked lowers instead of ZA-marked lowers, and Rhodesia had a well-documented albeit crude garage industry for firearms and parts like the Commando, the Cobra, their G3 handguards, the Halbek device, etc. Rhodesia had an industrial base to support a small-batch conversion for T&E even during the end of the regime, one which Zimbabwe quickly squandered.

It's all speculation until someone produces the import/export docs, purchase history, and so on - all which is certainly lost to time. That said, I haven't found compelling reason to believe that Zimbabwe sponsored the conversion but I find it far more likely that Rhodesia did carry out the conversions at the end of the regime. I also have found over the years that not everything was photographed and from listening to oral histories and reading accounts I'm convinced that the pictures we do have are only representative of most of the small arms and equipment, but certainly not all - and even in those photos new stuff shows up all the time like slings, carry handles, cut-down Paras, and even the occasional Halbek device.

I do think it makes more sense for the Rhodesians to do them, but it's one of those hard things to know for sure.  It can't be ruled out that the Zims did them, either.  In either case, the RA/ZA number thing is irrelevant, as most of Zimbabwe's FALs including the bulk of its South African rifles would have been RA-marked.  Pretty much just some small numbers of weapons that may not have gotten an RA mark and the IMBELs they ordered after the fall were ZA marked, it seems.

Sure, but what I mean is this - if Zimbabwe converted the lowers, why wouldn't they apply ZA marks? Either way it's all speculation, but the lowers are cool.

For the same reason they didn't apply them to any of the other RA-marked guns in inventory.  None of the Rhodesian-era ZA-marked kits I've seen had RA marks as well.  They probably just continued to use the RA inventory number for their own purposes without bothering to add new markings.

@RogerRoger

I've got one of these, but on a G1 lower with SED selector marks.

Did it come that way, or did you or someone else assemble them together that way?

It's plausible for it to have come in that way, as Rhodesia had G1s it got from Portugal.

I have a couple which have both RA and Zim Army numbers electro penciled on them.  And the numbers do not correspond at all.  So they did do that at least once in a while.  (Couple others with Zim paint but RA numbers).


Also- I believe any Para FAL’s actually used by Rhodesians would be captured weapons from various African communist rebel groups.  They were somewhat in demand as such.  Don’t believe they purchased any in Para config.  So where all these para stocks came from that came in with the kits is a good question.

Interesting, but it's definitely unusual.  Yours is the first I've heard of like that.

Most of the paras were captures from rebel/terrorist forces that were being provided FALs by other African countries.  Some of the paras are ANC contract, and IIRC the ANC did in fact supply weapons to the former.  Definitely uncommon and they were coveted.  Perhaps a few managed to be smuggled in with the rest from time to time.

These appear to have been domestically manufactured.  Looks like they broke off the swivel and used it to make a casting for the hinge, which was then done in steel.  The standard bolt carriers were modified into para carriers and they look a bit crude, IMO.  I don't see too many of the corresponding upper parts, though, for whatever reason.  The lowers are modified fixed-butt lowers.  They just removed the tang and made the slot for the para top cover.  R1s most commonly got the treatment, but I've also seen SA-contract FNs.  Both were the most common FAL variants in Rhodesian service, so I suppose that should not be surprising, nor would it be to see a few odd examples representing other FAL variants.

I do wish we had more info on these.  I did see a photo of a Zimbabwean soldier with a para before I knew these existed and I wish I had known to look and see if it was one of these.

All I can tell you is that its an RA marked G1 lower, and the stock is crudely made as described in other posts in the thread. I didn't assemble it as I don't have the knowledge or tools to do that.

Probably came that way, then.  IIRC, INTAF got the Portuguese G1s (which they got from Germany to hold them over until G3 production could get going).  I think a G1 conversion is more likely to be post-war, but I suppose there's no way to be certain.

+1

Not to steal the thread but when I had this I was told by DSA it was a South African R4 stock, I think, and was shorter? Is that what this has?  From what country?  The rifle was a select FN Para. It had no button release on the bottom.  It came from DSA in this configuration except the hand guards were originally just cut down STG-58 metal guards which thankfully got replaced later by the polymer.  The metal guards got way to hot.

Yep, that's an R4 stock. Apparently it was a mod done occasionally, I can't find evidence that it was ever widespread.

@bigstick61

Just snapped a pic today of a lower with both RA and ZA markings: Attached File
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File
Attached File

Turned out that was the only double marked part I had out of this pile.  I have more but did not dig everything out...
Attached File
Attached File

Cool.  Definitely uncommon.  Maybe the priority was marking those they retained in service, starting with those not already marked with inventory numbers, although they did not start minimizing FAL use immediately; it took a few years, at least.  By the 1990s FALs were a minority of weapons used by troops by a very large margin.  Hard to say, really.  I'm not sure a whole lot is known about Zim practices after the purge of settlers from the military in the early to mid 1980s (they even brought in Pakistani officers who Pakistan seconded to them to make up for the brain drain in the upper officer ranks).

Well it wasn’t like the North Koreans could train all of the Zim forces themselves.  (Because they are such superior military minds in NK…)

Of course those NK trained folks are most well known for murdering thousands of unarmed members of the non-ruling tribe… I would be happy if none of my rifle parts participated in any of those massacres.  Thankfully those troops got the first AK’s, so it is not too likely that these FAL’s were used for that…I hope.

Double tapped.