Last August my father passed. I knew he had a registered machine gun. My mother, executor, gave me all of the firearms.

I researched what to do, looked here, talked to shops, and even called the ATF. No one was able to give me any solid information on what to do. I knew it had to be a paper transfer, we had to include a copy of the death certificate, and a copy of the power of attorney. We sent all of this via next day air about 30 days ago. Yesterday, a letter arrived. They want more info.

In addition to the documents we already sent, they want the following:

Copy of the will, or a letter from the executor stating there is no will.

Proof of executorship.

Status of probate.

They also want box 3a changed from the original owner to the executor.

They want all of this back within 30 days. Hopefully this is all we need and they can get this wrapped up soon.

One other thing. If you have NFA items, make sure you specify who you want them to go to in your will. The ATF will only do a form 5 to people specifically named in the will, or the executor.

Jason

Sounds like you’re doing the right thing

Doesn't help OP now, but a trust might have made it easier.

Thanks for posting that OP.  I thought it would be much more straightforward.  

As pointed out, a trust (not NFA trust) fixes the executor and will/no will issue with the proper documentation.  It is interesting that the ATF form in box 2A has a checkbox for "trust".  That opens several questions............maybe the subject of another thread.

Box 3a clearly says "decedent' and not executor.  That is bullshit on them.

The purpose of a trust is to completely avoid probate, so "status of probate' is a bit confusing.  Does that mean you need to tell them if probate is or is not involved? Is there some documentation required to do this?

AFT is CUNT.  

Also look at box 3b instructions:

2 k. Estates, Trusts, and Other Transfers by Operation of Law. When a firearm
is being transferred from an estate by bequest or interstate succession (see
27 CFR   479.90a), or by other operation of law to a beneficiary or other
authorized recipient, ATF Form 5 is used to effect the transfer. The
executor, trustee, or other person appointed to dispose of property shall
provide documentation of the legal status of the person entitled to receive
property, and shall identify that person in item 2a.
In the case of an estate, item 3e shall be completed to reflect the decedent's
information.

Here is additional information:

NFA/Estate/etc

I also see they require FD-258, which is a fingerprint card. A passport style photo with very specific requirements goes on form 5 box 15.  OP probably knows this, but good for others to know.  


Getting back to the 2a checkbox for 'trust', it makes me wonder if items not listed in my NFA trust could be added to that trust, after death,  to avoid this in the future.  

Let us know if there are any more surprises or if it goes through, OP!  

I should state it is being transferred in state on a form 4. There is a will, but it is not itemized, so they told me it could go to her via a form 5, or to anyone else via a form 4.

I specifically asked about the 3a box, and was repeatedly told to use the original name on the form 4. The instructions on the separate sheet they sent said to cross out the old name and write the new one in next to it. That seems odd to be.

I'll check on the specific wording this evening and post exactly what it says they want. They only thing I can kind of see is proof of executorship, the other things don't make sense.

The executor is in legal, but not yet documented possession or control of the item, which may be why they want the box 3a changed??


I am making notes of all of this to place in my trust folder to avoid shenanigans.

Sorry for your loss.

"No one was able to give me any solid information on what to do." - Several FFLs here consistently give correct information for estate xfer. I did not see your post when you asked for help.

"If you have NFA items, make sure you specify who you want them to go to in your will. The ATF will only do a form 5 to people specifically named in the will, or the executor.". Technically it goes a lawful heir, this is usually someone named in will, but can also be court ordered. Best practice is to name them in will, and have pre-filled out F5 in your estate documents.

I’m 51 and only one nfa item guess I better do a will and specify what goes where.

I do plan on buying a can later too.

I have the Form 5 with my docs. I would suspect that I should fill out multiple Form 5s, one for each device.  My beneficiary dude is listed in in the other/will portion of my trust. This should make things much simpler for items not on the NFA trust.

@renegadex  For items listed in the NFA trust, and my beneficiary is listed in that trust, is there anything additional that needs to be done for the trust items, perhaps an address change?

No you are doing it right. Maybe add some verbal instructions (get prints/photos) and keep it up to date. The idea here is to make it as simple as possible for beneficiary.

Tag for interest.

If  want to leave items to my kid then I should pre-fill a form 5 for each item so they can pass to him upon my death?

Still not completed. The latest, and hopefully last, was proof of executorship. Being listed in the will isn't good enough, they wanted a small estate affidavit. We got that done and emailed in 1 week ago, and they have been quite ever since. I suspect they are now content with the documents. Hopefully this wraps up soon.

A filled out form 5 is useless unless that person is specified in the will.

All done. She emailed the Small Estate affidavit on May 3rd, and it was approved on May 3rd. Took 2 weeks from approval to the mail box.

Took 2 months, overall. I think if we had known exactly what was needed up front, it might have only taken a month.

Thanks for the updates.  Great information here.

My father passed away last month and I just completed my Form 5 and fingerprint cards.  I photocopied his living trust and just received the death certificate (An original, not a photocopy).  I’m ready to mail the packet now, and will keep the forum updated.  

This is a good topic and should be “Stickied.”

Also, this video had good info, and was uploaded just 5 months ago so it is fairly recent.