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Posted: 4/4/2024 8:25:09 AM EDT
I'm looking for the quietest can for an UZI (postie).
I've got a Gemtech Multimount with UZI mount that I'm using now. I also have a Bowers VERS 9S with a three lug mount that I use on the MP5, and it sounds great. Looking at the following: Thompson Machine SG-2 Bowers VERS 9 GSL Jericho (which would seem to be comparable to my Multimount, so not super interested in this one) or see if GSL can do an UZI mount on the Phoenix, or just buy a three lug UZI barrel (not optimal or preferred) Have "Thunder Cans"/Curtis tactical make me something custom Other??? I've also thought about getting the GSL Phoenix and use it on the MP5, then just put an UZI adaptor from Bowers on the 9S I already have.... Thoughts? |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 8:40:36 AM EDT
[#1]
Open bolt usually need a high volume can to help reduce back pressure. Tried my Gemtech with a Mac - awful gas.
Coastal was fine but it is a long high volume can. Many like Bowers. Check over on the Uzi Forum. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 8:42:04 AM EDT
[#2]
I shoot a GSL Phoenix at times on a fa UZI, and it is very quiet.
I don’t know if you have experience with the coax designs like the Phoenix, MK9, Curtis CT9KS. They are very good/quiet designs, but they get pretty dirty. It doesn’t take much shooting for them to sound like a salt shaker. Unfortunately, the Phoenix is aluminum, so it can be a bit of a pain to clean. If you don’t mind spending the money and are chasing the quietest, I’d see if Curtis (now Shaw) could make you an all-titanium CT9K (longer ~8” version). That would allow for some more aggressive chemical cleaning options like CLR. Regarding mount, I would just go 3-lug. I don’t really get the desire to use a dedicated Uzi mount. You see a decent number of accuracy complaints with them, you need to carry extra parts around to shoot it unsuppressed, and at least the GSL ones are super long. 3-lug works and is easy. The Bixler mounts Curtis/Shaw makes are especially rock solid and easy in terms of maintenance. |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 8:53:44 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peachy: I shoot a GSL Phoenix at times on a fa UZI, and it is very quiet. I don’t know if you have experience with the coax designs like the Phoenix, MK9, Curtis CT9KS. They are very good/quiet designs, but they get pretty dirty. It doesn’t take much shooting for them to sound like a salt shaker. Unfortunately, the Phoenix is aluminum, so it can be a bit of a pain to clean. If you don’t mind spending the money and are chasing the quietest, I’d see if Curtis (now Shaw) could make you an all-titanium CT9K (longer ~8” version). That would allow for some more aggressive chemical cleaning options like CLR. Regarding mount, I would just go 3-lug. I don’t really get the desire to use a dedicated Uzi mount. You see a decent number of accuracy complaints with them, you need to carry extra parts around to shoot it unsuppressed, and at least the GSL ones are super long. 3-lug works and is easy. The Bixler mounts Curtis/Shaw makes are especially rock solid and easy in terms of maintenance. You make a good point about the 3 lug mount. Honestly, I've never noticed any accuracy issues with the Multimount I currently have. Now that you've brought that up, I think I'll hit the range and test it out on paper to really verify for myself. As to mounts, I really just prefer the aesthetics of the barrel nut mounted cans on UZIs. Maybe I should say that I want the quietest and coolest looking can...lol. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 9:09:21 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: You make a good point about the 3 lug mount. Honestly, I've never noticed any accuracy issues with the Multimount I currently have. Now that you've brought that up, I think I'll hit the range and test it out on paper to really verify for myself. As to mounts, I really just prefer the aesthetics of the barrel nut mounted cans on UZIs. Maybe I should say that I want the quietest and coolest looking can...lol. I didn't mean to suggest you should second guess the Uzi mount you have. I've just seen a number of complaints with them on Uzitalk, which would at least make me wonder if I bought another (and possibly from a different manufacturer), would it also work. @amphibian makes some cool 3-lug barrel setups and could probably make you a setup where there would be very little exposed barrel between the nut and Bixler collar if you decided to go the Bixler route. The Bixler mount has no springs, and mine have zero perceptible movement/wobble when tightened down. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 2:07:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: As to mounts, I really just prefer the aesthetics of the barrel nut mounted cans on UZIs. Maybe I should say that I want the quietest and coolest looking can...lol. 100% |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 4:57:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: You make a good point about the 3 lug mount. Honestly, I've never noticed any accuracy issues with the Multimount I currently have. Now that you've brought that up, I think I'll hit the range and test it out on paper to really verify for myself. As to mounts, I really just prefer the aesthetics of the barrel nut mounted cans on UZIs. Maybe I should say that I want the quietest and coolest looking can...lol.  I'm very happy I went with a BWE 3-lug barrel instead of a barrel nut mount. I know BWE is gone, but it sounds like KAK is getting in the Uzi barrel game and hopefully they'll make some 3-lug barrels. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 6:32:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peachy: I didn't mean to suggest you should second guess the Uzi mount you have. I've just seen a number of complaints with them on Uzitalk, which would at least make me wonder if I bought another (and possibly from a different manufacturer), would it also work. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peachy: I didn't mean to suggest you should second guess the Uzi mount you have. I've just seen a number of complaints with them on Uzitalk, which would at least make me wonder if I bought another (and possibly from a different manufacturer), would it also work. @amphibian makes some cool 3-lug barrel setups and could probably make you a setup where there would be very little exposed barrel between the nut and Bixler collar if you decided to go the Bixler route. The Bixler mount has no springs, and mine have zero perceptible movement/wobble when tightened down. Note that most UZI barrel nut mounts are designed to be used with an unmodified barrel which I personally think is ugly and looks like a WWII potato masher grenade..... You can see from my picture below, I don't use those. All my barrel nut mount setups use cut down barrels for the most compact setup. But as Peachy mentioned, I do 3 lug setups also for the extreme convenience and also big fan of the Bixler mount over the typical spring loaded, push/turn 3 lug mounts that have some wobble that you can't get rid of.  CT9KS (now known as the MK9 from Shaw Armament) is my favorite. You can also order it withOUT the ugly Shaw Thundercan hideous logo.  I have some info on it on my website here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=244 As mentioned, I can't tell much difference between the MK9K and the CT9KS. There is also the old school AWC MK9 which is huge and may be the quietest but that thing is massive. I'm not into the 12" long cans. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/5/2024 12:27:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Very happy with my VERS 9S on my M11/9 Lage Mk1 Max 11 upper, overall not that far off from a fullsize Uzi:
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2024 6:28:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: amphibian]
[#9]
Originally Posted By 55Kingpin: GSL Jericho (which would seem to be comparable to my Multimount, so not super interested in this one) or see if GSL can do an UZI mount on the Phoenix, or just buy a three lug UZI barrel (not optimal or preferred) https://gsltechnology.com/product/uzi-mount-adapter/  Have "Thunder Cans"/Curtis tactical make me something custom Now that Joe is with Shaw Armament, I presume the model names have changed. He did tell me he was continuing custom work there. He will also do an UZI barrel nut mount with the ratcheting teeth. These cans will have zero aluminum (all Titanium and SS) while the Phoenix and MK9K use aluminum. Important for cleaning. You can look at the details I posted in my previous post with pictures of the fouling and cleaning. Again, link is here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=244 Forgot to mention another option is that I made my own UZI barrel nut to hub mount: Pictured below is with a Griffin Bushwhacker36 which Green0 posted here before that this is the quietest 9mm can that Griffin makes. You can see it is a tad longer than my CT9KS but obviously not as fat.  I made a custom bushing that I TIG welded to the hub mount. I made it to match the specs of my short UZI barrel nut mount so I could use the same barrel on both.  |
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Posted: 4/5/2024 2:01:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnGA: Open bolt usually need a high volume can to help reduce back pressure. Tried my Gemtech with a Mac - awful gas... I think it’s more of a design thing, and less an open bolt thing. My M11/9 can be pretty gassy with most any can I’ve used. But not always (more atmospheric / humidity / something else?) At the same time, the Uzi with those same cans hasn’t given me any gassing issues. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2024 3:08:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarrettJ: I think it’s more of a design thing, and less an open bolt thing. My M11/9 can be pretty gassy with most any can I’ve used. But not always (more atmospheric / humidity / something else?) At the same time, the Uzi with those same cans hasn’t given me any gassing issues. Agreed. The open-bolt Uzi is a very, very nice suppressor host. Never shot a closed-bolt version, so I can’t speak to it. |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 2:05:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Wow!
Thanks everyone for the discussion. I was away for the weekend and just now getting a chance to catch up. Looks like I'll be reaching out to Shaw Armament for sure. |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 2:10:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amphibian: Check out this thread on UZItalk: https://uzitalk.com/forums/index.php?threads/full-size-uzi-suppressor-recommendations.99994/ Here is a picture from my website as you can see, the UZI barrel nut mount PLUS a chopped down UZI barrel is the shortest setup but less convenient than 3 lug since you have to remember where you put that barrel nut when you want to shoot unsuppressed. Note that most UZI barrel nut mounts are designed to be used with an unmodified barrel which I personally think is ugly and looks like a WWII potato masher grenade..... You can see from my picture below, I don't use those. All my barrel nut mount setups use cut down barrels for the most compact setup. But as Peachy mentioned, I do 3 lug setups also for the extreme convenience and also big fan of the Bixler mount over the typical spring loaded, push/turn 3 lug mounts that have some wobble that you can't get rid of. https://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/UZI-Suppressor-1024x775.png CT9KS (now known as the MK9 from Shaw Armament) is my favorite. You can also order it withOUT the ugly Shaw Thundercan hideous logo. https://c3junkie.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/MiniUZI-1024x546.jpg I have some info on it on my website here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=244 As mentioned, I can't tell much difference between the MK9K and the CT9KS. There is also the old school AWC MK9 which is huge and may be the quietest but that thing is massive. I'm not into the 12" long cans. @amphibian Thanks for the link and info. I caught up on the thread at Uzi talk and also find it ironic that someone else posted almost the same query just a few months ago....haha. If you make 3 lug barrels, please send me a PM. I'm reaching out to Shaw Armament today. This question is open to anyone, thoughts on an 8", 9", or 10" version of the CT9/MK9 can from Shaw? I'm not really concerned with length or weight, so if there is a significant difference in "quietness" between those three then I'll go that route. I don't necessarily chase dB numbers, I'm all about the subjective noise level to the shooter. The Vers 9S I already have is 8.6", so I'm leaning the 10" route unless it really just isn't that much quieter than the 8". Thanks again - this is a great discussion and has been very informative for me. |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 2:29:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: This question is open to anyone, thoughts on an 8", 9", or 10" version of the CT9/MK9 can from Shaw? I'm not really concerned with length or weight, so if there is a significant difference in "quietness" between those three then I'll go that route. I don't necessarily chase dB numbers, I'm all about the subjective noise level to the shooter. The Vers 9S I already have is 8.6", so I'm leaning the 10" route unless it really just isn't that much quieter than the 8". I really like my VERS-9s. But one time I watched as someone shot my gun w/ that can next to someone shooting an Uzi with an original AWC MK9. Both with the same ammo. The Bowers sounded great. But the MK9 sounded incredible. If I was going for maximum reduction, I’d get a long can based on the MK9. |
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ND, USA
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Posted: 4/8/2024 3:03:55 PM EDT
[#15]
For the amount of Uzis out in the wild, I’m shocked at how few barrel nut mounts are available for common suppressors. No manufacturers want to spin up a few. Weird. DeadAir has nothing.
 
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Posted: 4/8/2024 3:14:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarrettJ: I really like my VERS-9s. But one time I watched as someone shot my gun w/ that can next to someone shooting an Uzi with an original AWC MK9. Both with the same ammo. The Bowers sounded great. But the MK9 sounded incredible. If I was going for maximum reduction, I’d get a long can based on the MK9. Yes sir....leaning towards the 10" version of what amphibian has from Shaw, unless someone can convince me it's not worth the extra length. I've got a message into Shaw as well, and will get their take (just in case they know, haha). |
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Posted: 4/8/2024 3:18:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shadyman: For the amount of Uzis out in the wild, I’m shocked at how few barrel nut mounts are available for common suppressors. No manufacturers want to spin up a few. Weird. DeadAir has nothing. I agree. I now know (based on this thread and the Uzi talk one linked above) that there are people who do not like the barrel mount option...accuracy issues, keeping up with the barrel nut and/or spare barrel....I don't know but that doesn't deter me. I'm hoping Shaw can pull off a custom can that I can mount via 3 lug and/or the Uzi barrel nut mount, both of those in conjunction with a shorter Uzi barrel to keep the overall length down and not waste space when mounted via the barrel nut. Someone posted a shortened/threaded barrel earlier, so if Shaw (or someone else) doesn't come through then I'll buy two of those and just have a 3 lug adapter mated to one of them. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/8/2024 3:51:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: peachy]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: @amphibian Thanks for the link and info. I caught up on the thread at Uzi talk and also find it ironic that someone else posted almost the same query just a few months ago....haha. If you make 3 lug barrels, please send me a PM. I'm reaching out to Shaw Armament today. This question is open to anyone, thoughts on an 8", 9", or 10" version of the CT9/MK9 can from Shaw? I'm not really concerned with length or weight, so if there is a significant difference in "quietness" between those three then I'll go that route. I don't necessarily chase dB numbers, I'm all about the subjective noise level to the shooter. The Vers 9S I already have is 8.6", so I'm leaning the 10" route unless it really just isn't that much quieter than the 8". Thanks again - this is a great discussion and has been very informative for me. I have an ~8" CT45K that I use on my Uzi at times. The weight and size does not seem unwieldy to me. Regarding the 9mm versions, I believe Joe told me that the CT9KS does not sound much different than the longer version for single shots but that the longer version does better with bursts in terms of blowback. If you don't mind the length and a few extra ounces, I'd definitely entertain going with a longer version, but obviously diminishing returns are at play. I'd just tell Joe what you want to achieve and ask him what length he recommends. He's a very nice guy to talk to. ETA: I should clarify, the short CT9KS supposedly does not sound much different to the shooter compared to the longer version. I think bystanders would notice the difference. Also, the current Shaw/Curtis cans use HUB adaptors. I've got the Bixler 3-lugs, but I could also use direct thread inserts, Plan A, Plan B, Xeno, Keymo, whatever. I bet he could make you an Uzi mount to swap out as well. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/8/2024 6:03:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Video from last year with amphibian, some of his toys, and all CT9KS’s. I have sensitive ears, am a little afraid to shoot without ear pro, and all of these were comfortable to me as the shooter. I have a CT9KS too and I love it.
 CT9KS Suppressor |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/8/2024 8:57:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CJofFL: Video from last year with amphibian, some of his toys, and all CT9KS’s. I have sensitive ears, am a little afraid to shoot without ear pro, and all of these were comfortable to me as the shooter. I have a CT9KS too and I love it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwtcqYp_lDsWhich one of the three hosts sounded the best to you as the shooter and as the bystander? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/8/2024 9:15:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CJofFL]
[#21]
Sorry, I don’t recall. They were shot throughout the range session and I’m not sure I could answer unless one after another. @amphibian
ETA: I don’t shoot full auto enough that when I do, I’m giddy, and unless I’m trying to focus on something in particular, I won’t. ETA2: my CT9KS… 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:08:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: amphibian]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By emccracken: Which one of the three hosts sounded the best to you as the shooter and as the bystander? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By emccracken: Originally Posted By CJofFL: Video from last year with amphibian, some of his toys, and all CT9KS's. I have sensitive ears, am a little afraid to shoot without ear pro, and all of these were comfortable to me as the shooter. I have a CT9KS too and I love it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwtcqYp_lDsWhich one of the three hosts sounded the best to you as the shooter and as the bystander? In the video the CT9KS has a deeper tone but neither myself or my friend could tell a difference. We all know that doing video is just not the same as in person and the microphones pick up sounds differently as well.  MK9K vs custom short Curtis Tactical can The more weight you have further away from you, the more you feel it. I like the short fat cans on SMG's as I don't really feel it as much as a longer can. I use my stuff in SMG matches where you are swinging the thing around and poking through windows / barricades etc. Less length is better for me and again, I can't tell the difference. I also like the short fat look vs long/skinny or long/fat. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 7:47:19 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amphibian: The more weight you have further away from you, the more you feel it. I like the short fat cans on SMG's as I don't really feel it as much as a longer can. I use my stuff in SMG matches where you are swinging the thing around and poking through windows / barricades etc. Less length is better for me and again, I can't tell the difference. I also like the short fat look vs long/skinny or long/fat. Subgun matches you say….dang I miss the creek.  Attached File Attached File Attached FileDang I need to dust the top shelf in the gun room…. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 10:44:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: amphibian]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: Subgun matches you say .dang I miss the creek. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25459/IMG_6968_jpeg-3182947.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25459/IMG_6970_jpeg-3182948.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/25459/IMG_6969_jpeg-3182950.JPG Dang I need to dust the top shelf in the gun room . |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 1:17:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 55Kingpin]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amphibian: It is unfortunate that most of the guys I used to shoot matches with are either not interested anymore or have died off. I used to be too busy scrounging the pole barn instead of shooting the matches. I got talked into shooting it one year and ran all four classes. Iron closed bolt, optic closed bolt, iron open bolt and optic closed bolt. My buddy told me shoot the one you think you will suck at the most which was iron closed bolt with the M16 in 9mm and I got 3rd place (got a wooden plaque like you have several of) with that and didn't place that high in the others...lol.. was a lot of fun but I recall thinking that I am still missing out on deals in the pole barn!! Yeah, the few guys I shoot and travel with have all lamented the end of an era. It was such a great trip and not too far from home. We would shoot subgun first thing Friday, then shop the rest of the day. Shoot the pistol match early Saturday, and then shop until we were ready to head out. Every year, for twice a year. I joined the group in 2009, and one of the guys had been going since the early days in the 80's. Such a good time, and I dearly miss it. Are you close to Andy B in Florida? I think he was doing some matches. I know there is a MI group as well, and I think west TN was trying to make something happen. Rachel B put on that match a couple years back and I couldn't make it. Now that she's had a kid I'm not sure if that will return again.... I've thought about putting something together around me, and our local range has hosted State level IDPA and USPSA matches before...but I really don't want to MD or RO. I'm not lazy, it's just I've had my fill of that and want to just shoot. I'd be willing to design and setup stages though.... Fall 2021, the final shoot. Interesting "plaque" for sure....  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:32:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Update:
Woohoo! Some great news today. 1. Got a barrel ordered from Pike. It is a shortened and threaded version (with thread protector). I'll plan to use this barrel with the custom "shortened" Uzi barrel nut mount that Joe at Shaw will be making. It will also be a "back-up" to the below. 2. I have a chrome lined, shortened, threaded, 3-lug mounted (threaded all the way through) barrel coming from Amphibian. Thanks bro! 3. Just got off the phone with Joe at Shaw, and he's on board to do a custom can with Bixler 3-lug and shortened Uzi barrel mount. Emails have been exchanged and this is officially a go. He said somewhere in the 8.5" range was long enough. The "S" version is 6", so he told me this would be the "L" version. When my barrel from Amphibian gets here, I'll go out and run it with my Vers 9S to see how it compares to my current Multimount. I'm looking forward to being impressed by the difference. This will tide me over until Joe gets me my next fix.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 4:59:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: amphibian]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: Are you close to Andy B in Florida? I think he was doing some matches. I know there is a MI group as well, and I think west TN was trying to make something happen. Rachel B put on that match a couple years back and I couldn't make it. Now that she's had a kid I'm not sure if that will return again.... I go to the monthly SMG matches at Port Malabar, FL which Ihas been going strong since the 80's. I started going in the early 2000's and we had a pretty good sized group of people and you could see all kinds of cool stuff people bring out. These days, more than half the people that show up are running semi auto PCC's....wish more FA people would show up but again most are no longer interested or dying off and most of the younger generation that may be interested can't afford what transferables go for these days. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 5:33:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: amphibian]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peachy: Regarding mount, I would just go 3-lug. I don't really get the desire to use a dedicated Uzi mount. You see a decent number of accuracy complaints with them, you need to carry extra parts around to shoot it unsuppressed, and at least the GSL ones are super long. 3-lug works and is easy. The Bixler mounts Curtis/Shaw makes are especially rock solid and easy in terms of maintenance. The only issues I've heard with any Uzi barrel nut mounts were that they were too long since designed to work with original barrels and the Liberty UZI mount bleeding gas back into the action. ETA, there are variations on OD of even IMI barrels so maybe that has something to do with the Uzi barrel nut mount issues. I haven't had any issues myself. Mine were done by Dater himself but now that I have a lathe myself and doing my own work, I'm measuring various barrels and seeing these discrepancies. |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 6:47:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amphibian: I go to the monthly SMG matches at Port Malabar, FL which Ihas been going strong since the 80's. I started going in the early 2000's and we had a pretty good sized group of people and you could see all kinds of cool stuff people bring out. These days, more than half the people that show up are running semi auto PCC's....wish more FA people would show up but again most are no longer interested or dying off and most of the younger generation that may be interested can't afford what transferables go for these days. That’s kind of disappointing, although it’s understandable. As you say, the cost of transferrables is pretty high. So how do the PCCs compare to the SMGs in the rankings? I always found it ironic that the subguns that do the best in competition are those that shoot slow enough to pull singles. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2024 8:06:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: amphibian]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarrettJ: So how do the PCCs compare to the SMGs in the rankings? I always found it ironic that the subguns that do the best in competition are those that shoot slow enough to pull singles. If we have two rectangle or square targets and you get them with a single pull of the trigger you get -5 for that pair. 3 together - 10 seconds off 4 together - 15 seconds off 5 together - 20 seconds off Plate racks are typically round not square but we 'style' those. So 6 round plates on a plate rack is 25 seconds off your time. I may have some of the values off but you get the idea. Some fun scenarios are have a no shoot in the middle of two style on the left and two on the right of the no shoot. You keep your finger on the trigger with one burst and take out the two targets on the left and shoot over the no shoot and then shoot the two on the right of the no shoot. - 'Omega style' and you 15 seconds vs 10 seconds off your time. I think just about all FA Shooters except beginners will take advantage of the 'style' points so hard to really compare to semi shooters at my match. I think the two top winners in the last match both had negative total times. This video is my new hybrid Dissent M16 setup I just finished up over the past 3 months. Documented here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=1733 After about 20 yrs finally have the 9mm M16 rival the MP5 for my needs.  Amphibian's Hybrid CMMG Dissent |
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Posted: 4/9/2024 8:44:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Steamedliver]
[#31]
Im using a Bowers 458 can with the 9mm end cap.
IDGAF, I am rocking the rose gold can.  Attached File(Im cheating, its a mini Uzi) |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 2:13:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amphibian: I started shooting SMG matches at Malabar around 2003 or so. We used to talk about how everyone makes their guns so slow to shoot singles. I think it was around 2004 or 2005 that someone at Malabar came up with 'style' points. So you are encouraged to run bursts. If we have two rectangle or square targets and you get them with a single pull of the trigger you get -5 for that pair. 3 together - 10 seconds off 4 together - 15 seconds off 5 together - 20 seconds off Plate racks are typically round not square but we 'style' those. So 6 round plates on a plate rack is 25 seconds off your time. I may have some of the values off but you get the idea. Some fun scenarios are have a no shoot in the middle of two style on the left and two on the right of the no shoot. You keep your finger on the trigger with one burst and take out the two targets on the left and shoot over the no shoot and then shoot the two on the right of the no shoot. - 'Omega style' and you 15 seconds vs 10 seconds off your time. I think just about all FA Shooters except beginners will take advantage of the 'style' points so hard to really compare to semi shooters at my match. I think the two top winners in the last match both had negative total times. This video is my new hybrid Dissent M16 setup I just finished up over the past 3 months. Documented here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=1733 After about 20 yrs finally have the 9mm M16 rival the MP5 for my needs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbHiJvWyEFoQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By amphibian: Originally Posted By GarrettJ: So how do the PCCs compare to the SMGs in the rankings? I always found it ironic that the subguns that do the best in competition are those that shoot slow enough to pull singles. If we have two rectangle or square targets and you get them with a single pull of the trigger you get -5 for that pair. 3 together - 10 seconds off 4 together - 15 seconds off 5 together - 20 seconds off Plate racks are typically round not square but we 'style' those. So 6 round plates on a plate rack is 25 seconds off your time. I may have some of the values off but you get the idea. Some fun scenarios are have a no shoot in the middle of two style on the left and two on the right of the no shoot. You keep your finger on the trigger with one burst and take out the two targets on the left and shoot over the no shoot and then shoot the two on the right of the no shoot. - 'Omega style' and you 15 seconds vs 10 seconds off your time. I think just about all FA Shooters except beginners will take advantage of the 'style' points so hard to really compare to semi shooters at my match. I think the two top winners in the last match both had negative total times. This video is my new hybrid Dissent M16 setup I just finished up over the past 3 months. Documented here: https://c3junkie.com/?page_id=1733 After about 20 yrs finally have the 9mm M16 rival the MP5 for my needs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbHiJvWyEFoGarret had the same question that ran through my head. The idea of time off for bursts is a great one! That allows PCCs and Subguns to run the same match, different divisions, and still the subgun shooters get to use the auto function. The Creek used to do that sometimes as well. They had various versions but the one I remember most was a mini plate rack, with square shaped mini plates stacked shoulder to shoulder, and if you cleaned it with one burst it XX seconds off your time. Geez, now I'm thinking about trying to put something local together again!
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Posted: 4/10/2024 2:14:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Steamedliver: Im using a Bowers 458 can with the 9mm end cap. IDGAF, I am rocking the rose gold can. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/376732/IMG_2707_jpeg-3183587.JPG (Im cheating, its a mini Uzi) I dig it. How's it sound? |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 9:46:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: Subgun matches you say….dang I miss the creek. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: Subgun matches you say….dang I miss the creek. I had to go back and look at the KCR match results and compare to your plaques to figure out who you are. I have to wonder when at shoots and elsewhere how often we walk right past people in real life who we "know" on these boards, and never realize it. Originally Posted By 55Kingpin: Garret had the same question that ran through my head. The idea of time off for bursts is a great one! That allows PCCs and Subguns to run the same match, different divisions, and still the subgun shooters get to use the auto function. The Creek used to do that sometimes as well. They had various versions but the one I remember most was a mini plate rack, with square shaped mini plates stacked shoulder to shoulder, and if you cleaned it with one burst it XX seconds off your time. Geez, now I'm thinking about trying to put something local together again! One thing I've found out is that you can never make everyone happy. We have had some years at the MI subgun match where we have sweep bonus arrays on just about every stage, and someone will complain that it skews the scores too far. And so the next year we do almost no sweep bonuses, and people complain about that too. Any more, I just try to put together stages that I think will be fun and challenging. And if people like them, that's great. And if they don't, I guess that's ok too. I try to learn from both the good and the bad. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:01:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amphibian: I started shooting SMG matches at Malabar around 2003 or so. We used to talk about how everyone makes their guns so slow to shoot singles. I think it was around 2004 or 2005 that someone at Malabar came up with 'style' points. So you are encouraged to run bursts. If we have two rectangle or square targets and you get them with a single pull of the trigger you get -5 for that pair. 3 together - 10 seconds off 4 together - 15 seconds off 5 together - 20 seconds off Plate racks are typically round not square but we 'style' those. So 6 round plates on a plate rack is 25 seconds off your time... Based on the bonus times you have, it looks like you could set up a match that heavily favors the SMG. With no bonus, I'm thinking the advantage would go to the PCCs for a lot of stages. Of course, stage design comes into play here. Just talking generalities. I'm ok with the idea of PCCs shooting at subgun matches, but only if they don't displace the SMG shooters. My reasoning being that you can find multiple PCC matches every weekend of the year, in just about any state in the country (USPSA, etc). Not so much with the subgun matches. But it's interesting seeing where the actual advantages and disadvantages lie. I've shot some subgun matches where the best approach was to shoot 95% of the match with single shots. They were fun, but not what one goes to a subgun match for. Based on that, I try to put a lot of burst opportunities out there. Even if they don't give a bonus, it will be fastest with a quick burst vs. a few quick singles. But then the disaster factor is a bit higher as well. So it's fun to give the shooters a choice. Here's one example from a couple years ago. There is usually one bonus array on each stage, but lots of other opportunities where a burst may give an advantage. For example, the horizontal plate rack near the end of Stage 1 is a bonus array (-5 seconds, I think), and the rest were just targets, but they offered opportunities to burst and move.  2022 Michigan Subgun Championship Unlimited |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 10:09:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Griffen 3 Lug and Revo make my .45 ACP Uzi smile at me.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 7:53:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GarrettJ: Based on the bonus times you have, it looks like you could set up a match that heavily favors the SMG. With no bonus, I'm thinking the advantage would go to the PCCs for a lot of stages. Of course, stage design comes into play here. Just talking generalities. I'm ok with the idea of PCCs shooting at subgun matches, but only if they don't displace the SMG shooters. My reasoning being that you can find multiple PCC matches every weekend of the year, in just about any state in the country (USPSA, etc). Not so much with the subgun matches. But it's interesting seeing where the actual advantages and disadvantages lie. I've shot some subgun matches where the best approach was to shoot 95% of the match with single shots. They were fun, but not what one goes to a subgun match for. Based on that, I try to put a lot of burst opportunities out there. Even if they don't give a bonus, it will be fastest with a quick burst vs. a few quick singles. But then the disaster factor is a bit higher as well. So it's fun to give the shooters a choice. semi centerfire semi rimfire FA optics FA irons FA rimfire Sometimes you may have only 1 person shooting FA rimfire for that day. I don't really care about my times as I guess I am not a true competitor. I like to tinker more. I don't shoot my UZI much for competitions because it always worked. I've been tinkering with the M16 and waiting for someone to make one SMG match worthy for like 20 years and finally have what I want with my custom build above....so now I guess I have no excuse and need to actually focus on shooting instead of tinkering and will probably die soon since I've achieved my goal. LOL |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 9:58:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Relevant to the original topic, as of yesterday, Pew Science seems to be touting the CAT Mob 9mm subgun silencer as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I don't believe it is user serviceable though. Titanium construction, so I believe you could use the dip. Their website is like an insufferable comic book, so sort of hard to glean actual relevant technical details: https://specterscat.com/product/cat-mob/ Who knows how Jay comes up with his ratings though. He gives it a better muzzle rating than the Phoenix but his numbers show it has higher muzzle dB than the Phoenix. Unless it is clearly better, I'll take a user-serviceable subgun can, please. |
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Posted: 4/11/2024 1:44:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peachy: Relevant to the original topic, as of yesterday, Pew Science seems to be touting the CAT Mob 9mm subgun silencer as the greatest thing since sliced bread. I don't believe it is user serviceable though. Titanium construction, so I believe you could use the dip. Their website is like an insufferable comic book, so sort of hard to glean actual relevant technical details: https://specterscat.com/product/cat-mob/ Who knows how Jay comes up with his ratings though. He gives it a better muzzle rating than the Phoenix but his numbers show it has higher muzzle dB than the Phoenix. Unless it is clearly better, I'll take a user-serviceable subgun can, please. So far I haven't seen or found anything that makes me second guess spending money with Joe/Shaw on the "amphibian" improved MK9....L version. I'm really looking forward to comparing it to the Vers 9s, and I hope to be "wow'd". |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 2:16:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 55Kingpin: So far I haven't seen or found anything that makes me second guess spending money with Joe/Shaw on the "amphibian" improved MK9....L version. I'm really looking forward to comparing it to the Vers 9s, and I hope to be "wow'd". I would be confident in my decision if I were in your shoes. I'm thinking about having Joe re-core my AWC .45 MK9. That thing is give or take 12" of suppression goodness. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 3:47:57 PM EDT
[#41]
BTW, I confirmed with Joe that the website is wrong on the MK9 description. They are NOT sealed like stated on the site. They are still completely serviceable like what he did as Curtis Tactical
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Posted: 4/11/2024 4:35:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Threads like this make me want to finish the semi mini uzi pistol build I started like 5 years ago. But then I need to sbr it and get the cut/threaded or 3 lugged.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/11/2024 8:59:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StaccatoC2: get the cut/threaded or 3 lugged. 
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Posted: 4/11/2024 10:23:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By amphibian: Forgot to go into more details on this but GSL already does an UZI mount for the Phoenix but as I mentioned in my previous post is it ugly and long designed to be used with an unmodified barrel: https://gsltechnology.com/product/uzi-mount-adapter/ Yeah, that's pretty hideous. And yes, most Uzi barrel nut mounts end up being way too long. I was going to mention a notable exception in that the Bowers cans have a large enough blast chamber to fit the unmodified SMG barrel when used with the barrel nut mount. For reference, the VERS-9S on top, showing where it would end up with the barrel nut mount. Below is the Trident-9, which is usually about 1-3/4" shorter than the VERS-9S, until you put the Uzi mount on it. I also have a barrel that was shortened and threaded just in front of the barrel nut. The CAC-45 on the bottom is placed showing what the length there would be if mounted on that one. A 3-lug mount just in front of the barrel nut would be just a bit longer. 
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