.

Notes:
Note 1: I will only post links to dealers/manufacturers that will knowingly sell to the civilian market, otherwise I would be wasting your time by sending you to their webpage.

Comprehensive Grenade Launcher FAQ


Available 40mm Weapon Systems
(Require Destructive Device NFA registration)
Colt m203
??? M79
LMT m203
LMT m2032003(Rail Mount)
HK XM320
HK 69A1
HK AG-C

Rail mount or Standard Mount?
It depends, you can’t mount an m203 to a barrel less than 10.5”, unless it’s a rail mount, because there is no barrel space for an m4 cut profile.
If it’s a standard mount you can mount it on all your longer barreled AR15’s. But if it’s a rail mount you can mount it to any weapon with a suitable rail. The LMT rail mount has three slots that go into the T-slots on a rail, so the rail needs to be at least 9” in length to engage every slot. You don’t have to do this but it is better for your investment, because the m203 receiver is only aluminum. The more points of contact, the less stress applied on any individual point. A standard m203 is cheaper than the rail mount, and not all rails can withstand the recoil of an m203. On another forum there have been instances of low-end rails breaking in half.

Rails safe for use with 40mm Launchers
(After direct contact with customer service with the following companies these rails have been approved and will maintain warranty to original purchaser.)

Daniel Defense Lite Rails
Daniel Defense M4 Rails
Daniel Defense RIS
Knights URX
LMT MRP
Larue Tactical Rails- note that the barrel nut/slip ring will not allow a launcher to scoot all the way back against the magwell.


(Image reposted from pic thread, to show the mounting system, notice this rail is short for the launcher.)

How to purchase an m203
It's not difficult; you use the same process as any SBR, MG, or Silencer. You can purchase one on a Form 4 that can be ordered Here
To register as an individual you have to get two copies of the Form 4, with two fingerprint cards, and two 2x2" photos. To register as a trust or corporation you don’t need the photo, fingerprint cards, or LEO signature. More information on NFA Forms can be found at the General Class 3 board.

Then find a dealer with one in stock. You buy it, they send it on a form 3 to a Class 3 dealer in your state, you then send the F4 to the ATF in Georgia. The paperwork then gets forwarded to ATF in W VA. If it is approved you'll know in about 45 days or so. They send one copy of the Form 4 back to you and you pick up your launcher from the dealer.

Originally Posted By STG77: Being a DD dealer is not the same as being a Class 3 dealer. A DD dealer is a type 9 FFL, a DD manufacturer is a type 10 FFL. Just being a 03 or 02 SOT does not allow you to receive DDs on a Form 3. Not all dealers have this.

With this information aside (which is the way its supposed to be as far as I’ve read), a Class 3 dealer/SOT can on occasion get an approved Form 3, this topic has been discussed and it seems to be something they do once or twice a year for a dealer not a regular basis thing. Which means you may not need a DD specific dealer. However the Form 1 is still an option if you are under 21, but over 18 years of age.

So if you live in a state with no known DD dealer that can deal DD then you get to do a Form 1.

You get yourself a Form 1, and do the same thing, except a F1 is to build a firearm not to transfer one. You find a dealer with an m203 receiver in stock, buy it and they ship it to any FFL and transfer it as a title 1 rifle. You put the serial number on the F1 and send it to the ATF except F1's go straight to W VA not GA. Once it is approved you can purchase a 40mm barrel to complete your launcher. The only downside of this is you must engrave your name city and state on the launcher somewhere in plain view to the NFA font specifications.

40mm Military Rounds
Multipurpose= buckshot
HEDP= High explosive shaped charge


Blue tip Practice rounds can be purchased for $6-$8 per round, which are harder to find. The most common way to find them is per sealed package of 25 rounds which is $160 or more, they may also be purchased by sealed crate which contains 100 rounds.

So these are relativly expensive to shoot, they can be reloaded however.
The facotry load is said to be 4-6 grains of bullseye powder in the m212 nylon hull. They fire useing a .38 S&W blank, these can be reloaded as well, useing a primer, reloading powder and a peice of cardboards and glue to seal the end.

Projectiles for the practice rounds can be purchased on ebay or at bigskysurplus.com, they consist of a zinc or lead pusher a hevay peice of metal to resist the blast and contain the marking powder. The marking powder is inserted between the plastic blue end cap and the pusher, when fired the pusher engages the rifleing of the barrel which gives accuracy. M212 hulls with fired 38's can be purchased for aorund $2 each, and entire projectiles can be purchased and reused for around $4 each, so a $6 round, not includeing powder and glue to seal the round.

High Explosive Rounds
Yes, there is a legal way to own/purchase HE, however it counts as an individual DD. So a $200 tax stamp applies for each round that contains more than 1/4 ounce of explosive in the projectile, and or more than ??? oz propellant. This separate DD tax only includes these rounds, all other rounds i.e. blue-tip practice rounds do not require a separate NFA tax. You must also have an inspected explosives storage magazine. It's way too much trouble requiring multiple licenses, and is basically cost prohibitive.

40mm Custom Rounds and Adapters
It is safe and possible to shoot custom made small caliber beehive rounds and shotgun shell adapters in your launcher. I however wouldn’t fire anything that isn’t factory made and well tested. Shot shell adapters are easily made but if the proper tolerances on length and diameter are not followed its possible to damage your launcher or harm yourself. It is likely that any use of adapters may void your warranty as well. With that said…

Destiny, makes a fine shot shell adapter CNC turned, modeled after a practice round, and anodized. Her rounds can be found on Gunbroker, and Grog's.
Adapters for shotgun shells can also be found at Brownells.

Beehive adapters, are a multi-round adapter typically available in .22 cal. However I have heard of some cases of custom 9mm adapters being made. These adapters, use a wafer type disc with several firing pins, that is actuated by a shotgun primer. This fires all the rounds at once. Most available Beehive adapters are smooth bore, but are also available with rifled barrels, these are more expensive. There has been no indication that a non-rifled barrel would damage a launcher due to bullet strike.

Grog's .22 10-round Beehive Review
Numrich Gun Parts
Shivak's 18 round .22 {Smooth Bore; MSRP $335)
Shivak's 9-round .22 Beehive (Rifled barrels; MSRP $385

40mm Dealers

Impact Guns
Clyde Armory
Homeland Defense & Police Supply Co
Innovative Tactical Solutions
Auto Weapons (40mm Rounds)

37mm
(Aren’t regulated as firearms, but is illegal to use HE/Shot/Baton or any other antipersonnel munitions without registration as a Destructive Device)

Common 37mm Launchers
Cobray 37mm Launchers (Have a unique mounting system similar to the standard m203 mount, come in 7.5” or 15” lengths; MSRP $415)
Spikes Tactical 37mm HAVOC (rail mounted; MSRP $299)
Spikes Tactical 37mm Stand Alone Launcher (self contained launcher with stock; MSRP $399)

37mm flares/adapters & birdbombs

Originally Posted by firebugfab: Originally Posted by Ky-moonshiner: Can an unregistered 37mm fire shotgun rounds, such as the fireball or siren screech rounds or bird bombs under 1/4 oz, as long as they aren't anti-personnel rounds? "Bird bombs are illegal in a lot of areas regardless of what shoots them.  In Texas, we have to have special permission from Parks and Wildlife and we have to have a legitimate reason for them. You’re asking for trouble shooting them out of a launcher.   Most 12ga adapters won't accept regular 12ga rounds and will only accept the flares.  If you were to turn one down to accept a regular 12ga round, you would be asking for trouble.   I don't really know the answer for the dragon's breath rounds or the siren.  Logic says the siren would be similar to a signal round but dragon's breath would not.  I have no idea what the ATF would say about either.  I would recommend against it."

Reloading Resources:

Big Sky Surplus 40mm Reloading Supplies
Hi-Vel Lots of misc NFA items, 37mm shells, ammo and more.
Mike Patterson Cases Black Powder Cases for Film Cans

Non-Lethal munitions civilian sales.

Clyde Armory 37 & 40mm Practice and non-lethal.

Additional Resources:

37mm.com (A compilation of resources and information regarding launchers.)
Grog's 37mm & 40mm Discussion Forum (Grog sales two versions of a very in depth reloading DVD; a must have for all launcher enthusiasts.)
Mr.40mm Randy Shivak receivers/adapters
Ebang Links to Guns america, Ebay, and Gun broker.






What is and isn't DD

Link (AKA Bring them up in court not me)

DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES

       26 U.S.C. sec. 5845(f) "The term destructive device
   means

   1) any explosive, incendiary or poison gas

       A) bomb

       B) grenade

       C) rocket having propellant charge of more than four
   ounces

       D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of
   more than one-quarter ounce

       E) mine, or

       F) similar device
 
2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or
   may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the
   action of a explosive or other propellant, the barrel or
   barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in
   diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the
   Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as
   particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and
   3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for
   use in converting any device into a destructive device as
   defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a
   destructive device may be readily assembled.   The term
   'destructive device' shall not include any device which is
   neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any
   device although originally designed for use as a weapon,
   which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic,
   line throwing, safety or similar device; surplus ordnance
   sold, loaned or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant
   to the  provisions of section 4684(2), 4685 or 4686 of title
   10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the
   Secretary of the Treasury or his delegate finds is not
   likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a
   rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting
   purposes."

   Secretary in the above refers to the Secretary of the Treasury,
unless it says otherwise.  The fee for the FFL to deal in DD's is
$1000 a year (type 09), and one must also be a special taxpayer,
add another $500 a year.  Making them requires a different $1000 a
year FFL (type 10), although an individual may make them on a Form
1, tax paid ($200).  Transfers require the whole routine just like
full-autos; a form 4, $200 tax, a law enforcement sign-off,
pictures and fingerprints.  Most class 3 dealers don't have the
$1000 a year FFL to deal in DD's.   Note that antiques are
excluded.  Thus the definition of an antique NFA firearm is
important.

       26 U.S.C. sec. 5845(g) "Antique firearm.-The term 'antique
   firearm' means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using
   rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed
   ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any
   matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition
   system or replicas thereof, whether actually manufactured before
   or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed
   ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition
   is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily
   available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

   Some examples of what is a DD and what is not:

   Muzzle loading cannon - NOT, as it is an antique design, unless
it has some special features allowing breech loading.

   Explosive grenade - is a DD

   Molotov cocktail - is a DD

   M-79 or M-203 40mm grenade launcher - is a DD

   Smooth bore 37mm projectile launcher - not a DD.   Not even a
title 1 firearm.  This item falls under the "not a weapon"
(signaling device) exception.  Generally a large bore device for
which no anti-personnel ammo has ever been made will NOT be a DD.
This used to be true of the 37mm guns.  However, according to ATF,
some folks have started making anti-personnel rounds for these
guns, and ATF has ruled that possession of a 37mm launcher and a
bean bag or rubber shot or similar round is possession of a DD, and
at that point the launcher needs to be registered.  Put another
way, before you make or buy anti-personnel rounds for your 37mm
launcher, register it as a DD.  The rounds themselves, not being
explosive, incendiary or poison gas, are not regulated in
themselves either.  It is just the two together.  See ATF Ruling
95-3.

   40mm grenade for an M-79 or M-203 - a DD.
 
Non-explosive 40mm practice ammo - not a DD.  Commercial making
of it would require a type 10 FFL though, as although the ammo is
not itself classified as a DD, making ammo for a DD requires the
FFL.

   Non-sporting 12 gauge shotgun - is a DD, because it has a
bore over 1/2", and is not exempted unless it meets the "sporting
use" test. Check out the case Gilbert Equipment Co., Inc., v.
Higgins, 709 F. Supp. 1071 (D. Ala. 1989) for how the sporting use
test has been re-interpreted from what it meant when the law was
enacted to having ATF be arbiters of what is "sport".
 
Flame Thrower - not a DD, nor even a firearm.  Unregulated
as to possession, under federal law.  Great way to clear snow off
the driveway.
   
Japanese Knee Mortar - A DD.  Even though there is no
available ammo for it, explosive or otherwise, and hasn't been
since 1945, because anti-personnel ammo was made for it in the
past, it is a weapon.  As it has a bore over 1/2" and isn't
sporting, it is a DD.

Great thread. Many of us have learned alot about SBR's , Suppressors, full-auto
transferrable legalities, etc. from this site over the years, but Destructive Devices
are still a bit of a mystery.

I have a question. I have always heard that each 40mm round for your M203 or M79 launcher must have it's own $200 dollar stamp. Is this true?

I looked at the Clyde Armory link that you provided above, and found these
practice marker rounds available. I am assuming that the $200 tax per round would not apply to marker or smoke rounds, and would only apply to HE and such.

40mm M781 Blue Tip Ammo


At $625 dollars per case of 100 rounds, that doesn't seem unreasonable at all.
That is, unless you would have to pay $20,000 dollars in tax stamps to legally
own those 100 rounds.

Originally Posted By Ky-Moonshiner: So if you live in a state with no known DD dealer that can deal DD then you get to do a Form 1. You get yourself a Form 1, and do the same thing, except a F1 is to build a firearm not to transfer one. You find a dealer with an m203 receiver in stock, buy it and they ship it to any FFL and transfer it as a title 1 rifle. You put the serial number on the F1 and send it to the ATF except F1's go straight to W VA not GA. Once it is approved you can purchase a 40mm barrel to complete your launcher. The only downside of this is you must engrave your name city and state on the launcher somewhere in plain view to the NFA font specifications.

There is some confusion here.  If you have no DD dealers in your state or, there are none within reasonable distance to where you live they can be transferred to you local Class 3 dealer tax free.  Various errornet threads say 2 per lifetime, 2 in inventory at one time, or 2 tax free transfers per year.

In my case, there was no local DD dealer so I transferred through a local class 3.  This was their first DD transfer and they were NOT a DD dealer just a regular Class 3.  If you are paying retail price for your M203, I guess it's possible for your local class 3 dealer to suck up a $200 tax stamp for the transfer to them but, in my case this would mean the dealer sold at a loss because I paid less then retail since I paid for everything upfront.

If you have a local DD dealer you must transfer through them.  If not, you can transfer a complete M203 through your local Class 3 guy on a tax free Form 3 to them with a normal Form 4 to yourself.

Originally Posted By HermanSnerd: I have a question. I have always heard that each 40mm round for your M203 or M79 launcher must have it's own $200 dollar stamp. Is this true?

Only if it has a High Explosive payload of over 1/4 ounce (including the booster charge).

Non-HE rounds carry no form 4 nor $200 tax per round.

Also, you can catch Clyde's selling the chalk training rounds for $525 a case if you watch for their sales.

Originally Posted By Sid_Post: There is some confusion here.  If you have no DD dealers in your state or, there are none within reasonable distance to where you live they can be transferred to you local Class 3 dealer tax free.  Various errornet threads say 2 per lifetime, 2 in inventory at one time, or 2 tax free transfers per year. In my case, there was no local DD dealer so I transferred through a local class 3.  This was their first DD transfer and they were NOT a DD dealer just a regular Class 3.  If you are paying retail price for your M203, I guess it's possible for your local class 3 dealer to suck up a $200 tax stamp for the transfer to them but, in my case this would mean the dealer sold at a loss because I paid less then retail since I paid for everything upfront. If you have a local DD dealer you must transfer through them.  If not, you can transfer a complete M203 through your local Class 3 guy on a tax free Form 3 to them with a normal Form 4 to yourself.

This is what my SOT told me as well.

I never actually talked to a class 3 on mine, for two reasons. The nearest is an hour and a half away, and most importantly I’m still under 21. So a Form 1 was a must for me, any other information i have posted is more than likely been something i picked up on the forum. I too have heard of a occasional tax exempt Form 3 type transfer, but is that "2" rule in the regs somewhere or an unwritten rule?

will edit accordingly, thanks

Yes, if you are under 21 you have some extra hoops to go through.

As far as specific regulations, I haven't ever found them.  However, I suspect this is subject to interpretation that may change over time.  All I know for sure, is it worked for me.

Is the process for a Form 3 dealer to dealer the same as the forms for individuals? background check and all, or is it expedited? Just trying to see who has the final say.

Originally Posted By Ky-Moonshiner: Is the process for a Form 3 dealer to dealer the same as the forms for individuals? background check and all, or is it expedited? Just trying to see who has the final say.

Dealer to Dealer transfers are not like a Form 4 going to an individual.  The dealers are already in the system so, I think it is basically an update to track where the item is (who has possession).  Dealers get their compliance checks and anything else they need whenever ATF decides they want to do a compliance check.

Dealer to Dealer transfers take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks depending on random things at the ATF.

Go ahead and throw in more need-to-know and i'll quote it in.

Links for reloading supplies would help a lot. Also a how-to on molded projectiles would be awsome i personally know nothing about it.

It looks like you can't get practice rounds in 37mm. Kind of blows for us that just want to have some fun and not have to go through the hassle of getting a 40mm. I think flares could be a lot of fun. I just want to use something that isn't such a fire danger.

check out Grog's link, he sells a DVD that gives detailed instructions on making 37mm rounds.

You can reload useing 35mm film canisters full of sand, same effect as a practice round, you can even fill one with line chalk and launch it, just don't expect accuracy out several hundred yards like you would in a 40mm.

However you can talk to Mike at Grog's forum and he sells custom 37mm molds so you can mold your own projectiles, he makes a mold that has rifleing on the outside of it so it will turn in your smooth bore 37mm. thus more accuracy.

Unless its a non-lethal type round used by law enforcment a 37mm is designed to be a signaling device only this is why you can't find practice rounds.

Be careful, ATF has not made a ruling that I know of on "sand rounds".  To me, a film can full of sand/chalk is no different than a wood or rubber baton or a bean bag round.  Just sayin'...

I've had it explained to me another way as well...  What are chalk rounds in a 40mm for?  They are target practice right?  Why do you need target practice for a flare or smoke round?   You don't so you don't need them for a 37mm.  

Basically, if your brothers and sisters at the ATF would like to see you in a different home, I bet they could make a case with film cans full of sand.  Isn't that the same as a bean bag round?   Bean bag rounds are DD right?   Bean bag rounds are definatley not signal rounds and are used against inmates and such.  

I'm not claiming to know the answers, I'm just trying to make folks aware that 37mm launchers are made for flares, smoke and starbursts.  That's about it.   Anything more and the alphabet crew will have reason to talk to you if you don't act nice.

I wouldn't do it without my registered launcher.

Aren't those media (sand/gravel) used as weight in smoke rounds to get some distance? The guy could learn to make smoke rounds and just stick to that. Also in that case, is it legal to use a pusher for a 35mm smoke round?

WTF is a bird bomb?

kind of like a firecracker you can shoot, it blows up louder than a firecracker but you shoot it towards a group of birds, for example to run them out of your garden by shooting from your house instead of running over there to scare them.

this was very helpful,so thank you very much

I just wanted to add to the list of acceptable rails for the M203. I recently contacted Daniel Defense about their 9.0 Omega rail and if it was suitable for a LMT rail mounted launcher.
I received a reply back, advising me that the Omega rail was not "officially tested" to hold up to the recoil of a M203, however they did test the Omega rail and fired several rounds with a M203. The Omega rail held up to the punishment. Anyway at about $260 bucks...I plan to pick one up to see how it holds up to my M203.

With the new 4473s that have come out this year, are M203 receivers now illegal to transfer to people under 21? According to GCA68 only rifles and shotguns are transferable, a stripped receiver doesn't meet either, so therefore the 21 rule applies. Prior to the new 4473s dealers had to check either rifle or handgun, since a M203 receiver ultimately ends up being fired from the shoulder with a stock this meets a rifle, and dealers would check rifle. In other words does this close the ability for people under 21, but at least 18 to build their own M203 from a receiver?

A stripped M203 receiver has always been considered a Title 1 firearm, like a pistol. So it has always been illegal to transfer one to someone under 21. It has nothing to do with the new forms.

The FAQ up there must be wrong then. That dashes my Form 1 build plans. The 4473s from last year only had pistol or rifle and dealers would have to pick one at their discretion. The new ones have a new, "other" category, which means the 21 rule is in effect.

Sorry haven't been around. this guy is dead wrong. I bought my receiver from a dealer and form 1'd it at age 19.

reason, it is not a 40mm until it has a barrel 37mm barrels are available. the barrel makes it a nfa item just like a 10" makes and SBR an SBR not the reciever.

I'll have to look into this. I haven't kept up for a bit, but i know last year i did it legally. I eventually talked to the ATF and had it removed from the registry and sold it as a rifle receiver to another man that form 1'd it. sold it to buy a motorcycle.

http://areallylongdomainname.com/misc/gun%20types.pdf

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or
deliver -
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the
licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than
eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is
other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or
rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable
cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

And then:

3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter
gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to
expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or
receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm
silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include
an antique firearm.

So technically since it is not a "Rifle" and/or a "Shotgun" it cannot be sold to anyone under 21.

That's why you can buy one of those cheap Et-Cetera 37mm without any paperwork, and the real 203 receiver requires a transfer.

is that legit ATF law? i didnt check the link but i'll trust you, i guess the loophole has been closed.

10-4, bro. I don't think there ever was a "loophole" so to speak, only vagueness in the law itself, which left everything open to the interpitation of the individual agents... Not ever a good thing to do, but, with these new forms, there is no longer any doubt.

$6.25 a round then?

That's about right... I just picked up some and they came out to $6 each shipped.

pm sent

read the last few posts on page one and the first post on page two for your longer answer

All I want to know is who sells or makes 40mm buckshot shells for the m203?  I've seen the practice rounds, and I'm not really that interested.  Other than that I want to buy 10 HE rounds yes I know about the 200 tax per that's why I only want 10.

Im a to 37mm and i always find conflicting answers about this.....if i get a 9" spikes havoc standalone launcher and register it as a DD will this launcher hold up to flechette rounds and HE rounds and things of that nature? I want one but would like to keep my hand and fingers after firing it

I didn't even know that new production 203s were available on the civilian market until I came across this thread... Now I'm interested in a rail mount LMT.

Since these require a 5320.20 to cross state lines, if I were to go the Form 1 route and obtain a Title 1 receiver, get it approved and construct a DD, would I later be able to remove the barrel, leave it behind in a safe box or something, and cross state lines with the bare receiver? I know you can do this with an SBR by refitting with a Title 1 upper if you can't get your 5320.20 approved in time or if you're going to a state with restrictions on SBRs, but how does it work with DDs?

Machine guns are the only NFA that are 'always NFA'.  The rest are 'NFA by feature'.  If you were to put a 37mm barrel on your M203, it would be a title I weapon... or, remove the barrel (and have no barrel).

..at least this is my interpretation, based on the info in the NFA handbook.

Is there a forum on Arfcom for the non-NFA 37mm and 26.5mm launchers?

Pretty much all 37mm and 26.5mm talk (including unregistered) is discussed here. You can also head over to Grog's website as he has a wealth of knowledge on the Subject.

ok i am trying to learn about launchers so sorry if this is a stupied queston

i know a 40mm launcher is DD but once you have the permit for the launcher if you only use buckshot and tear gas rounds do you have to have permits for the rounds? also does anyone know any place that would sell them to some one not a cop? and with the 37mm i heard if you stay with smoke flars and tear gas they are not dod is that right?

as far as mounting a 37mm "launcher", does it require a barrel band on the cutout of the barrel?  Is there a model that uses the cutout, or is that for looksies only?

That depends on the brand of 37mm launcher you have, but most do use the barrel notch for securing purposes. GROG