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Posted: 7/22/2016 11:33:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course there's no way to actually find out but I'd be curious to know if this situation (IA legalization) is actually a statistically significant event in the wait increase. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Icing on the cake is Iowa literally just got them legalized for private ownership outside of a FFL situation. So I have literally purchased them as fast as I was able and am still stuck in this mess. My Checks were cashed 7/5.... Of course there's no way to actually find out but I'd be curious to know if this situation (IA legalization) is actually a statistically significant event in the wait increase. Doubt it. When they're some ~200k forms behind... even that SS pic, with the 10,000 forms in the back of a truck- thats only 5% increase. So when theyre that far behind, probably only added a few months. Just making shit shittier at this point. 
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Posted: 7/23/2016 12:18:49 AM EDT
[#2]
I thought my last silencer bought in February was when the paperwork was efiled. Just checked the email. It said the application and check were recieved by the ATF on May 4, 2016. It's going to be a while.
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Posted: 7/23/2016 1:32:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course there's no way to actually find out but I'd be curious to know if this situation (IA legalization) is actually a statistically significant event in the wait increase. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Icing on the cake is Iowa literally just got them legalized for private ownership outside of a FFL situation. So I have literally purchased them as fast as I was able and am still stuck in this mess. My Checks were cashed 7/5.... Of course there's no way to actually find out but I'd be curious to know if this situation (IA legalization) is actually a statistically significant event in the wait increase. Probably not. IA doesn't have a large population to contribute to a large back log. The population of the whole state is half that of the DFW area in Texas, and people in Texas have a lot of guns. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 1:48:48 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course there's no way to actually find out but I'd be curious to know if this situation (IA legalization) is actually a statistically significant event in the wait increase. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Icing on the cake is Iowa literally just got them legalized for private ownership outside of a FFL situation. So I have literally purchased them as fast as I was able and am still stuck in this mess. My Checks were cashed 7/5.... Of course there's no way to actually find out but I'd be curious to know if this situation (IA legalization) is actually a statistically significant event in the wait increase. Within the group of people that I shoot with regularly, only one person other than myself have purchased any. I do know that quite a few in our HTF have, but that is still less than 100 people. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 1:53:05 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doubt it. When they're some ~200k forms behind... even that SS pic, with the 10,000 forms in the back of a truck- thats only 20% increase. So when theyre that far behind, probably only added a few months. Just making shit shittier at this point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Icing on the cake is Iowa literally just got them legalized for private ownership outside of a FFL situation. So I have literally purchased them as fast as I was able and am still stuck in this mess. My Checks were cashed 7/5.... Of course there's no way to actually find out but I'd be curious to know if this situation (IA legalization) is actually a statistically significant event in the wait increase. Doubt it. When they're some ~200k forms behind... even that SS pic, with the 10,000 forms in the back of a truck- thats only 20% increase. So when theyre that far behind, probably only added a few months. Just making shit shittier at this point. 5%, not 20%, which only strengthens your point. Time to settle in and forget until things make it through the pipe. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 10:32:21 AM EDT
[#6]
In 2 years a lot of things can happen. My concern being that the FFL/SOT goes out of business. What happens to your cans? Form 3 to another SOT? Im sure this has happened before.
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Posted: 7/23/2016 10:41:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5%, not 20%, which only strengthens your point. Time to settle in and forget until things make it through the pipe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Icing on the cake is Iowa literally just got them legalized for private ownership outside of a FFL situation. So I have literally purchased them as fast as I was able and am still stuck in this mess. My Checks were cashed 7/5.... Of course there's no way to actually find out but I'd be curious to know if this situation (IA legalization) is actually a statistically significant event in the wait increase. Doubt it. When they're some ~200k forms behind... even that SS pic, with the 10,000 forms in the back of a truck- thats only 20% increase. So when theyre that far behind, probably only added a few months. Just making shit shittier at this point. 5%, not 20%, which only strengthens your point. Time to settle in and forget until things make it through the pipe. Thanks, I knew it was 5% in my head, which is why I posted, dont know why I typed 20%, but I fixed it. And yeah, even though that truck full of forms looks big, they're so far in the weeds, that truck doesn't make a dent. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 10:44:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In 2 years a lot of things can happen. My concern being that the FFL/SOT goes out of business. What happens to your cans? Form 3 to another SOT? Im sure this has happened before. HA! This happened to me in less than 6 mos. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 10:58:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Still waiting on a F4 for a Specwar 5.56 I bought January 3rd.
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Posted: 7/23/2016 11:25:14 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HA! This happened to me in less than 6 mos. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In 2 years a lot of things can happen. My concern being that the FFL/SOT goes out of business. What happens to your cans? Form 3 to another SOT? Im sure this has happened before. HA! This happened to me in less than 6 mos. That has gotta suck. So what happens? |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 11:51:49 AM EDT
[#11]
The situation that happened to me was that ATF mailed me the approved Form 4. So SS dealer didn't even know I was trying to pick my can up. Phone wasn't ringing so I drove the 50 miles to their shop. Got there, lights out, letter on the door saying "out of business" panicked and called SS. SS assured me I wasn't going to be out $$$ or a suppressor. Worst case- they'd send me a new one via a different dealer.
However, since WA pulled their business license, but the owner was still a FFL/SOT everything that was F4 Pending, was left alone. What the owner told me, was that he was going to move the NFA them to his safe at his house and store items there until approved. When I went to pick up my Saker 556 K, it was the first week they'd been shut down, so I was able to arrange a time to meet up with him, go in and complete the transfer. I don't know if/when the rest of it was moved. Few other people who showed up during the times I was there, were told Form 3s would be cancelled, and referred to another SOT in the area to complete the transfer. I didn't ask if this was for SSD purchases, or these were people coming in "Hey can you order me a [such n such]" and they'd get it? At this point I just wanted to get my shit and go. Took 3 trips. First trip, saw the notice from WA on their door, and lights out nobody home.... 2nd trip, guy didn't have internet access to do the 4473 NICS check. 3rd trip, had to stall the locksmith long enough for owner to show up and let us in to get my can out of the safe... Another member here had contacted me, about having a Form 3 approved in February (around this same time) and not been able to reach the guy, to do a Form 4. I don't know what ATF does or when they step in, in a situation like this. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 12:03:06 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The situation that happened to me was that ATF mailed me the approved Form 4. So SS dealer didn't even know I was trying to pick my can up. Phone wasn't ringing so I drove the 50 miles to their shop. Got there, lights out, letter on the door saying "out of business" panicked and called SS. SS assured me I wasn't going to be out $$$ or a suppressor. Worst case- they'd send me a new one via a different dealer. However, since WA pulled their business license, but the owner was still a FFL/SOT everything that was F4 Pending, was left alone. What the owner told me, was that he was going to move the NFA them to his safe at his house and store items there until approved. When I went to pick up my Saker 556 K, it was the first week they'd been shut down, so I was able to arrange a time to meet up with him, go in and complete the transfer. I don't know if/when the rest of it was moved. Few other people who showed up during the times I was there, were told Form 3s would be cancelled, and referred to another SOT in the area to complete the transfer. I didn't ask if this was for SSD purchases, or these were people coming in "Hey can you order me a [such n such]" and they'd get it? At this point I just wanted to get my shit and go. Took 3 trips. First trip, saw the notice from WA on their door, and lights out nobody home.... 2nd trip, guy didn't have internet access to do the 4473 NICS check. 3rd trip, had to stall the locksmith long enough for owner to show up and let us in to get my can out of the safe... Another member here had contacted me, about having a Form 3 approved in February (around this same time) and not been able to reach the guy, to do a Form 4. I don't know what ATF does or when they step in, in a situation like this. That had to have been gut wrenching at first. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 12:17:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Well, the way the folded Form 4, made my info appear in the mailing window. I thought 'Hmm... DOJ... this is odd..." then opened it and got excited. So I wanted to call and tell them I'd come get it. "Aww hell, its only 50mi just drive down!"
I only knew this place through my 3 other SSD transfers. They moved also, so my LAST approval, I went to their old address, and had the same feeling. Then I saw "Hey, we moved! sign on the door. So this time, I thought maybe they moved again? But then the WA State letterhead was like "... oh... shit...." The lady next door came out, and told me they'd loaded up a semi and were moving to CA, but apparently that was just the ammo sales business they shared a space with. I ended up getting a hold of the owner on Facebook. He works a day job elsewhere so can't really get a hold of anyone until after work. Moral of this story- I don't do NFA stuff unless its in town with my regular SOT. I am currently trying to get them on-board with the SSD program but low volume makes it hard sometimes. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 11:45:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Wow, 200k behind!
Does anyone remember how big the backlog was post Sandy Hook for comparison purposes? |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 11:58:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm expecting about 2 years I think your right, I called Friday on my form 4 that's pending from Jan 25 and it's still pending. It will be 6+ months before being approved and I beat the rush, if they don't get more examiners I'd be willing to bet that forms sent June or July could be 2 years or longer .
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Posted: 7/24/2016 12:02:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, 200k behind! Does anyone remember how big the backlog was post Sandy Hook for comparison purposes? I don't think there was any large bump after Sandy Hook |
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Posted: 7/24/2016 1:16:36 AM EDT
[#17]
This is really maddening. Partly my own fault for not deciding I wanted a suppressor 1 year ago instead of a month ago. But really
In an open market, when a company has too much work, they expand or bring in temps, etc. Will ATF do this to get through the backlog? Probably not, because this ISN'T an open market. More like a monopoly, where the "company" doesn't have have to do anything because the "customers" have nowhere else to go. Rob |
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Posted: 7/24/2016 5:25:51 AM EDT
[#18]
Form 3 for Omega 9K submitted by Capitol armory 5/19 ... arrived at my dealer yesterday!
Finally some good news ... now for the longer wait. |
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Posted: 7/24/2016 10:07:03 AM EDT
[#19]
Form 3 s have been the same as last year for me-- about a month. A couple have taken longer, like six weeks but most are the same, and several were from May.
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Posted: 7/24/2016 10:26:20 AM EDT
[#20]
I called two weeks ago on two form 4s submitted Feb 2nd, they are pending. I am hoping to have by end of August. I bought an Omega 9k on Fathers day, I will be happy if I see it early next year. I also have a F1 out on a Scorpion Evo, not even gonna guess when that is going to come back.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 7:42:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
NFA branch is currently about 200k behind with form 4 entry. This really begs the question of how many they had entered Jan 1, 2016 through July 15th (or whenever exactly they reported this statistic)? Given that the number of form 4's processed in 2015 was 130k, that means there should be about 70k under the bridge by then. Or have they been able to secure more resources and the number entered since Jan 1 is much higher than 70k? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 8:07:13 PM EDT
[#22]
i have two forms not yet mailed, sitting on my desk.
Figured "whats a few more days on a 2 year wait?" Nice how the bureaucrats can simply operate on their own time with no real accountability. If they were a private organization with some competition for the business (at $200 a pop no less for a simple "is he/she a felon?" check), it would go a hell of a lot faster I betcha |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 8:30:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i have two forms not yet mailed, sitting on my desk. Figured "whats a few more days on a 2 year wait?"
Nice how the bureaucrats can simply operate on their own time with no real accountability. If they were a private organization with some competition for the business (at $200 a pop no less for a simple "is he/she a felon?" check), it would go a hell of a lot faster I betcha The basic problem remains that they are simply a satellite office of a satellite branch of a sub organization of the behemoth we call the administrative branch of the federal government. They have two bosses and an inspector (congress, prez, Supremes), none of whom agree on what this little sub branch should be doing. The sub branch never sees the revenue they generate, and are generally ignored, except when one of their bosses wants to make a point. I'm as impatient as the next guy, but I'm not going to put the blame on the guy in the trenches trying to do his or her best (its?) (and I don't think you are, either- you just triggered a rant), but instead on a system that is designed to divorce need, effort, outcome, and reward from each other. Grumble. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 12:21:39 AM EDT
[#24]
I will agree to trade one illegal for one can, fast tracked to freedom.
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Posted: 8/11/2016 6:34:06 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think there was any large bump after Sandy Hook Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow, 200k behind! Does anyone remember how big the backlog was post Sandy Hook for comparison purposes? I don't think there was any large bump after Sandy Hook All in wait times on 1s/4s hit 1 year afterwards. That was my experience and NFA tracker shows the same. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 2:04:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The basic problem remains that they are simply a satellite office of a satellite branch of a sub organization of the behemoth we call the administrative branch of the federal government. They have two bosses and an inspector (congress, prez, Supremes), none of whom agree on what this little sub branch should be doing. The sub branch never sees the revenue they generate, and are generally ignored, except when one of their bosses wants to make a point. I'm as impatient as the next guy, but I'm not going to put the blame on the guy in the trenches trying to do his or her best (its?) (and I don't think you are, either- you just triggered a rant), but instead on a system that is designed to divorce need, effort, outcome, and reward from each other. Grumble. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: i have two forms not yet mailed, sitting on my desk. Figured "whats a few more days on a 2 year wait?" Nice how the bureaucrats can simply operate on their own time with no real accountability. If they were a private organization with some competition for the business (at $200 a pop no less for a simple "is he/she a felon?" check), it would go a hell of a lot faster I betcha The basic problem remains that they are simply a satellite office of a satellite branch of a sub organization of the behemoth we call the administrative branch of the federal government. They have two bosses and an inspector (congress, prez, Supremes), none of whom agree on what this little sub branch should be doing. The sub branch never sees the revenue they generate, and are generally ignored, except when one of their bosses wants to make a point. I'm as impatient as the next guy, but I'm not going to put the blame on the guy in the trenches trying to do his or her best (its?) (and I don't think you are, either- you just triggered a rant), but instead on a system that is designed to divorce need, effort, outcome, and reward from each other. Grumble. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 9:09:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Update in OP
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Posted: 8/12/2016 10:08:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think there was any large bump after Sandy Hook Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow, 200k behind! Does anyone remember how big the backlog was post Sandy Hook for comparison purposes? I don't think there was any large bump after Sandy Hook Not sure on forms, but there was a bump in wait time at least. Looking back on forms I filed during that panic I'm seeing 220-240 day wait from pending. Forms were taking 2-3 months to go pending so say total wait time of 280-330 days from mailing. Much like now, makes for a good opportunity to start buying all of the title 1 items on the gun list you've been ignoring because we've been in NFA panic mode. Couple of links from back then. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/07/jim-barrett/more-bad-news-on-nfa-wait-times/ http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_20/400710_.html |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 11:54:58 AM EDT
[#29]
I have to stop reading this thread. I'm getting mad.
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Posted: 8/12/2016 12:52:50 PM EDT
[#30]
Hopefully, no one has to go through the wait I have once your stamp is approved. My stamp was approved on May 20th and still have not received my approved form 4 or the certified copy that I have now requested twice. I'm going on week 3 of my second certified copy request and was told that I was in the system to have it sent to me and my SOT. I hope everyone receives their stamp the first time because if you didn't who knows when you will receive it.
I have 8 more of these in the que and can't wait for more frustration and disappointment. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 1:14:10 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hopefully, no one has to go through the wait I have once your stamp is approved. My stamp was approved on May 20th and still have not received my approved form 4 or the certified copy that I have now requested twice. I'm going on week 3 of my second certified copy request and was told that I was in the system to have it sent to me and my SOT. I hope everyone receives their stamp the first time because if you didn't who knows when you will receive it. I have 8 more of these in the que and can't wait for more frustration and disappointment. Jesus, that is insane. I am waiting patiently for my July 20th and 24th approvals. Hoping I get a call any day now. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 1:28:37 PM EDT
[#32]
I guess it won't be so bad if this wasn't my first rifle suppressor.
My local SOT has been nonexistent with helping me and is highly rated from both Silencer Shop reviews and the local gun boards. I had to do all the footwork for this mess myself and the SOT did nothing to help this along. In fact, he told me to wait 90 days before requesting a certified copy. This last one through him and the other 7 are with someone else. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 3:47:39 PM EDT
[#33]
My check was cashed 2/12. Approved 8/7
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Posted: 8/12/2016 7:42:44 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My check was cashed 2/12. Approved 8/7 Great to hear this, my check was cashed 2/12 and I have not heard a thing yet..... |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 9:32:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great to hear this, my check was cashed 2/12 and I have not heard a thing yet..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My check was cashed 2/12. Approved 8/7 Great to hear this, my check was cashed 2/12 and I have not heard a thing yet..... Scott at THSF is seeing early Feb stamps, I'm a 02/02/16 F4 and waiting daily for that email. |
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Posted: 8/12/2016 11:21:14 PM EDT
[#36]
We haven't had a stamp come back in almost a month. My team sold a LOT of suppressors between November and July, and had started to consistently get stamps back, and then the flow just shut off. I'm about to send in another for myself, but I am sure it will be 12 months, being this close to 41F. At least I get to play with it at work.
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Posted: 8/13/2016 12:22:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am sure it will be 12 months, being this close to 41F Unless they add people, I doubt there will be any relief. Proximity to 41F is irrelevant, at this point, in my opinion. They're so far in the weeds, that you won't see a defining time period where the new 41F rules go into effect. Another member posted this morning that he was told by a CS rep at NFA branch they'd just started data-entry for end of April forms. So assuming that is accurate, that's a 4mo delay for form entry... then add the 6+ wait time, that keeps getting longer, on top of that?
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Posted: 8/13/2016 12:43:50 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Scott at THSF is seeing early Feb stamps, I'm a 02/02/16 F4 and waiting daily for that email. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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My check was cashed 2/12. Approved 8/7 Great to hear this, my check was cashed 2/12 and I have not heard a thing yet..... Scott at THSF is seeing early Feb stamps, I'm a 02/02/16 F4 and waiting daily for that email. Just had an early March stamp come back so surely you will see it any day. |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 3:43:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just had an early March stamp come back so surely you will see it any day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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My check was cashed 2/12. Approved 8/7 Great to hear this, my check was cashed 2/12 and I have not heard a thing yet..... Scott at THSF is seeing early Feb stamps, I'm a 02/02/16 F4 and waiting daily for that email. Just had an early March stamp come back so surely you will see it any day. Was that on a trust or individual though? |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 8:57:56 AM EDT
[#40]
This may have been asked already, but what exactly does "entering the forms into the system" mean as far the approval goes? Is that the last step or are there more to go??
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Posted: 8/13/2016 9:01:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This may have been asked already, but what exactly does "entering the forms into the system" mean as far the approval goes? Is that the last step or are there more to go?? That's the first step after the tax payment has been taken. |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 9:09:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the first step after the tax payment has been taken. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This may have been asked already, but what exactly does "entering the forms into the system" mean as far the approval goes? Is that the last step or are there more to go?? That's the first step after the tax payment has been taken. So much UGH!! Thanks for the info tho |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 10:50:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This may have been asked already, but what exactly does "entering the forms into the system" mean as far the approval goes? Is that the last step or are there more to go?? The address you mail forms to, is Bank of America PO box in Atlanta. They handle the payment. Once your forms are "paid for" they get sent on to ATF in West Virginia. THEN, the info gets typed into their system. Once that is done- you wait! |
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Posted: 8/13/2016 11:08:28 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The address you mail forms to, is Bank of America PO box in Atlanta. They handle the payment. Once your forms are "paid for" they get sent on to ATF in West Virginia. THEN, the info gets typed into their system. Once that is done- you wait! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This may have been asked already, but what exactly does "entering the forms into the system" mean as far the approval goes? Is that the last step or are there more to go?? The address you mail forms to, is Bank of America PO box in Atlanta. They handle the payment. Once your forms are "paid for" they get sent on to ATF in West Virginia. THEN, the info gets typed into their system. Once that is done- you wait! Interdasting, did not realize that. |
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Posted: 8/17/2016 3:17:53 PM EDT
[#45]
My check was cashed around 2/17/16. I have to be around the time for approval right?
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Posted: 8/17/2016 9:11:45 PM EDT
[#46]
Even during the big panic, wait times only went up to a year. It can't possibly be at the 2 year mark being thrown around right? I mean silencers were hard to find in late July, but when I shopped around a bit I was able to find the can I wanted pretty easily. I just find it hard to believe that they're getting hit that much harder now than back right after SH went down. Not saying they're not up to their ear-holes, a year I can see, 18 months maybe..2 years though?
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Posted: 8/17/2016 9:50:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My check was cashed around 2/17/16. I have to be around the time for approval right? I efiled a Form 1 on 3/2/16 and received approval back today(8/17/16) but I'm still waiting on a few Form 4's from the end of Jan and one from the end of Feb. I guess efile is faster for Form 1. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 12:19:36 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess efile is faster for Form 1. Pretty much. eFile goes into pending status right away where as paper has can take a while from the time it's received in Atlanta to the time it is entered in the system by person in WV. My form 4 from mid march took until July to go to pending. |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 2:20:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even during the big panic, wait times only went up to a year. It can't possibly be at the 2 year mark being thrown around right? I mean silencers were hard to find in late July, but when I shopped around a bit I was able to find the can I wanted pretty easily. I just find it hard to believe that they're getting hit that much harder now than back right after SH went down. Not saying they're not up to their ear-holes, a year I can see, 18 months maybe..2 years though? The unentered backlog a month ago was over 1.5x the most form 4s ever processed in one year, at the halfway point of the year (well, a little past it). If people simply stopped sending in F1/F4 applications at that point, it would still be over a year before everything was processed. I'm curious what the current sales/F4 application rates are? |
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Posted: 8/18/2016 3:11:57 PM EDT
[#50]
I have a 2/15 and a 4/15.
I'm expecting the 2/15 back any day now. The 4/15 I feel like i'll be lucky to see by Christmas. |
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