It is not made, you have to have someone make it for you.  Unless you already have silco mounts there is really no reason not to use the SD Brake and their mount.  It is a nice and compact, and it is cheap.

Couple of questions:
Engraving, what all has to be engraved? I would assume trust info just like an SBR, the serial number. What about model number?
Heat treating the baffles(Freeze plugs), before of after they are drilled and shaped? Or is there a definitive place to get SS d-cell plugs?
The inside diameter of the tube is 1.35" will 1 3/8 be close enough?

I don't have a lathe or a mill, just your basic tools. I am sure I know people with more specialized equipment, but it would mean asking around and questions being thrown out. I want to make sure I can pull it off before I drop $200 on a stamp.
Going to be 22lr mostly, but going to build it to handle 5.56 if I want it to. I have a Saker 7.62 in jail for shooting 5.56 regularly.

If you enter a model on the Form 1, I believe that information will need to be engraved as well...

They won't heat treat well and the SS would only be very marginally better (if you could get them)

So whats the best, readily available baffle? Preferably not breaking the bank in the process and could take 5.56 pressures?

The hardened steel retainers, the steel freeze plugs, and the Ti retainers, probably in that order, but they would all be good options.

I got my tubes back from engraver today.  I'm probably going to have both setups.  

Observations:

I think my SD Tube is more like 1.36" ID.  The threaded area on the SD tube does have a ID of 1.38", so the ID could be opened to 1.375", I would think someone would persue this, as with 1.375 you can use thin wall titanium tube for spacers and there are lots of retainers in that size.  Much better options.

There are slight variations in the differnt 1.350 retainers size, some fit pretty loose and some fit tight, so some are over-sized a bit, in my case it appears to be the moly coated titanium ones.  I think the uncoated ones shift to much, fit to loose, even though they are 1.35".  I think they may have to be cerakoted to add depth to the edges, even though it will not last on the exposed surface.

There is going to be an issue with the retainers as the last baffle, the last baffle in most any design with the coming hollow end would have a baffle up against the end cap. The problem with this is the end caps do not completely thread on, so this last baffle is on the threads, where it is 1.380" so this one is way too loose, a different size retainer would be needed here, you would need a single 1.380 retainer.  Because of the depth of the sides of the freeze plugs a freeze plug will be OK here.  The freeze plugs expand some during forming and appear to fit perfect.

On the C tube SD tube it appears to be 1.03 as manufacturer says however still some issues.  The retainers listed as 1.030 are more like 1.02 (and I have three different 1.030 models) I'm thinking they are fitting too loose to use.  The freeze plugs are not fitting either, they expanded to 1.01+ and they still fit too loose.  I had one tube made to a ID of 1.0" and the plugs will not tap in with a hammer, it appears I would really have to be forceful.  My hollowed out end caps and adapters for the C tubes came out nice, nice last baffle.

I'm considering clipping both baffle styles.  Unless the retainers are absolutely perfect fit in tube I think they are better off oversized.  Now I'm thinking the .320 is a good fit for 223 and .410 for 308 as is, I'm not seeing a reason to go tighter especially if they can shift some.  I'm going to open up my freeze plugs, the holes are difficult to get perfect centered, they are typically .01" off.  I'm considering clipping the baffle on the tight side, opening the entire hole up more, or adjusting the tight side with a dremel tool.

It is interesting that you mention this. The welded one on ST that is used with 223, and 7.63x39 specifically mentioned that the freeze plugs were heat treated, and that you must do this for longevity. Stainless steel plugs are available, but no one is sharing yet where they have purchased them other than you may have to buy a quantity of 50.

 

Have you guys looked at marine engine supply places. Methinks those types of freeze plugs would be SS due to the salt water environment that they are in.

Been scouring the net of and on for months now looking for a reliable source. Found them in 1 5/8th but not the size needed for these threaded bodies.

Size needed?

 

1.350" or 34.3mm cup type. Deep cup is preferred, but I have not even found regular cup in this size. If you find them make a hot link.

Everyone keeps complaining about the end cap being too big, is it possible to weld on an end cap?

I guess that would possibly screw up the anodizing, but you could always paint over it or re-anodize it?

Would be nice if someone sold the tube with only one end open/threaded and already anodized. Hell, I would gladly pay more for that!

Do the SD tactical guys make/anodize the tubes? I could ask if they would be willing to make, weld and anodize a tube as part of their product line. I'm envisioning a tube with end welded, welding all of the baffles together, then having the threaded cap. Three parts that fit perfectly together! Now that's a dream setup!

It could look like the Phantom or Specwar:

I think that the issue at hand is that by letter of the law none of these companies are NOT making suppressor parts. They are making solvent trap components that lend themselves nicely to building a suppressor. It's incumbent on the purchaser of said parts to ensure that NFA laws are adhered to if they plan on assembling a suppressor.

What you're suggesting may be poking the ATF beast a little too hard....

An elegant solution that is already being suggested is a flush scew-on cap that is center marked so the builder can appropriately drill the exit hole once the form 1 is approved.  Now that I think about it the solution that you suggest might work if the welded end cap wasn't drilled, but only center marked.  IDK...

I don't see why? Just don't cut a hole in the end and it actually makes more sense as a solvent trap.

Basically they would sell a hollow cup/tube with an end cap that threads onto the barrel. This is a solvent trap! It would be up to the consumer to drill the exit hole (lathe, or some nifty jig) to make it into a suppressor if they have paid the taxes properly.

These companies ride a fine line as it is.  I don't see them pushing the envelope that far.....

Anodizing is for aluminum, the aluminum tubes from SD are anodized, the other parts are often available either way but the non-anodized are being discontinued..  If you wanted a steel end cap weld one to a steel tube you don't have to have SD do that, most cities in the US have machine shops locally where you could have that done.

The source mentioned was just the freeze plug factory, and they don't have the correct size for the D tube.  I think you will find that no one has a 34.3mm one in Stainless, it is not a common size, it would be something a manufacture would have to make for you.  You will find them in 1.313" and 1.375".  They would only work for the custom tube.  They have a 50 order minimum, but you can buy them elsewhere.

I think the freeze plugs are low carbon steel, the heat treating won't do much.  Expect SS to be less mailable, you would be forming them so expect that to be more difficult, not go as well, and have to throw away a good number.  Your probably going to go through more of them than you expect.

Using a carbon steel tube and steel freeze plugs, what all would need to be welded?  In reading the basic step-by-step on SD Tactical's site, it looks like the freeze plugs are force-fit into the tube, which makes me think they wouldn't "need" to be welded.  The spacer at the entry end may be another matter though.  Any guidance for a suppressor and welding noob?

Well for one thing, if you can weld the parts yourself why would you even use the SD tube to start with?  The freeze plugs may have to be tapped in lightly but they don't just stay there, they are held into place by having a spacers throughout and the end caps hold the spacers together tight.  If you are welding you would probably weld the baffles in place also.

Having access to welding equipment or someone who could do some welding is not the same as having access to a mill and someone who could machine the tubes for me...  I do have the first, but certainly not the second.  On the other hand, most of the processes involved in forming the baffles don't seem to be too big a deal for me.  I have or have access to a lot of the equipment that's been discussed, and if my vise isn't beefy enough to form baffles, I can use a 10-ton hydraulic press a friend of mine has.  Another friend, a shooting buddy, welds, too.

So do I understand correctly that the forces inside the can would move the baffles around enough that an interference fit wouldn't hold?  OK that makes sense, and explains the added discussion of spacers other than in the blast chamber, as well as the extensive discussion of whether or not one could replace baffles in one's home-built can.

My thoughts are to use the stainless tubes and end caps, the carbon steel freeze plugs, and stainless tubing for spacers.  If I'm assembling these parts for a pistol caliber can, such as a 9mm or .45 caliber, would the dynamics within the suppressor require baffles to be welded?  I'd also be interested in such a can for 300 Blackout, particularly with the plan to use only subsonic ammunition with it; would a "force fit"  can be up to the task with subs?

You can buy a variety of SS and Ti tubes that already the ideal .050-.070" off the shelf, already cut to length.  If your welding I would not start off with a more expensive threaded tube that is not ideal size.  Also where the tube is threaded it is a different OD here, so different spacers and baffles sizes would be needed here.



No the baffles will not say in place when they are loose in the tube.  They have to be welded in place, or pancaked together with spacers, the rear spacer in the blast chamber would be cut last, you would put the spacing tube in the stack and mark it just a little higher than the Suppressor body and cut it there, then screwing on the end cap to compress the stack and hold everything.



There aren't SS end caps.   There are solid carbon steel ones to be released soon, and a thinner carbon steel one expected in the future.  Yes it should be fine with those, most of us are building for centerfire rifle cans.

This is a really bad fit for a Pistol can!  No way I would do that.  First of what you proposed would weight about 2lbs (32oz) ballpark.  There are a couple problems with this, that is really really to heavy for a pistol can, ideally you would want them in the 6-10oz range.  I don't think it would function even with a booster because of the weight.  It would be too big in diameter to work with iron sights.  With a $150 booster, and another $100-150 in parts you are into it for too much.  I just bought a AAC Tirant 9 for $348 and it comes with a $200 credit and is only 6.9oz.  The alumium maglight C tubes are a better fit for a pistol  They are kinda narrow for a typical pistol can but should work ok with 9mm at least.  OK for 9mm fixed barrel handgun (like a 1911 in 9mm) or 300blk probably, if you need to use a booster the cost matrix is off again.  I have a completed form 1 for one of these just waiting for my spacer material to get here next week.

FYI, Local machine shop here will profile down middle of tube, weight savings looks like it could be 5oz, so taking the 16oz body and make it 11oz, for ~$35.

Still not sure on the spacers, 1.350 is not a common size.  I'm thinking about 1.375 then wall titanium tube and cutting a slit section length wise out of it, basically to make it like a compression fitting to use as spacers.  The 1.33" .08" Steel Tube that is supplied as spacer material, if you used 5" of this it would be about 7oz.  The thin Ti tube would cut that down about 80%, to make it around 1.4oz.

OK, I think I'm starting to understand better.  With everything else I'd need for a 9mm pistol to work with it, I may as well go with a TiRant or something similar (that's a really nice looking silencer).  

On the other hand, the reason I started looking at this as a possibility was for 300 Blackout; a D-cell aluminum tube-based suppressor should work with subsonic rounds in 300 Blackout, right?

In the latest episode Rick upgraded to a new Silencerco Osprey, must be product placement.

I think it will. I run a SWR Trident, 9mm pistol can, on the 300 w/subs and it's just fine.

What's the protocol for having a machinist turn down the tube? Any legal ramifications? Just thinking it would be a great way to make a 1lb chunk of metal way less than 1lb.
Getting an Apogee tube, any problems with having the entire tube turned down 0.1", accoding to the website the tube wall it 0.2" thick

the can I am planning to build is going to do double duty on my .308 and an 8.5" 300 blackout I just hope the 8.5 will stabilize the rounds.

Check out page 5 of this thread. Poster Infinitegrim has posted some diagrams that illustrate some different options for turning the tube and the associated weights. Not sure about turning the entire length as I haven't measured the thread depth.

I had my turned to .100 under current OD on the middle section, leaving the 1st 3" and last 1" the same OD.

As to machining protocols there are none. It's simply machining at this point, not suppressor work.

So the Apogee tube is seriously .2 thick?, thats crazy that must be 2 lb!  The SD is .1 thick and right around 1lb.

You can't turn down the ends, the thickness of the threaded area on the SD is about .05 to bottom of threads and .08 to top of threads.  You should be able to turn down the middle up to .05.  If the info on the Apogee is correct sounds like you pretty much have to turn it down to use it, could probably go .1" on the ends and .15 on the middle.

When the is just a flashlight or solvent trap part you can drop it off at a machine shop, when you have a approved form 1 you would need to wait with it if it is a machine shop, if it is a 02/07 you can just drop it off.

A aluminum D cell should be fine for subsonic.  I have a pending form 1 for a 5" D-cell aluminum D-cell that looks like it will be super-light.  Really depends on what spacers I use, experiment with aluminum and Ti after it gets approved.

I've been following this thread since it started, lots of good info.  

Here is a pretty useful compilation of suppressor design cutaways I found while doing some research today.  http://www.waguns.org/viewtopic.php?p=95

I've been going back and forth on which direction I want to go first but think I've settled on doing a .300BLK can but I have a couple questions I'm hoping some of you can help me with.


Will the SD Tactical Griffin Armament adapter work with Griffin's 7.62 Flash Comp?  Everything I'm seeing says it will.

If it will, does anyone know which SD Tactical's tubes use, the Greatlite or Maglite threads?

In your opinion what is the minimum tube length I could get away with for reasonable sound suppression out of a 10.5" 300BLK barrel using Lehigh Defense 194gr bullets?  Would 6" work or would that be too short?  As a side note I also have an AR10 but I think a 6" tube would definitely not work for that application.  

Thanks, if I can get everything lined up I think I'll submit my form 1 today.

SD Griffin mount would works with any of the Griffin mounts

SD Tubes are for Maglite

The Liberty Choatic was made for 300blk and it is 6", which is on the short side for most 308 cans, it was also made to run on 5.56 and 308 although certainly louder than longer cans, and 300blk supersonic.  It not clear if that was the shortest they could make it for 300blk supsonic, because we don't know how much they considered 300blk supers and the other calibers in the final design.

You would go ahead and submit the form 1 with a length on the long side, you can build shorter, that is just the max OAL.

I'm building a 5" can but I know this may be pushing it.

Just received my steel muzzle brake and tube adapter from SDT. It appears to be a bit different from the one posted on page 14. Only two baffles are available, the third being covered by the adapter. Length extending past the adapter is on 1.030". I'm sure it'll still work fine but I would have liked the 3 baffles available.

Got a call from my LGS  today that the engraving is done and that the tube OD has been turned down.  Now just waiting on the Form 1.

The one on PG14 is being paired with a steel endcap

How much weight did you shave off? Mind posting pics?
You should be taking pics the whole way, then do a big write up once all is said and done.



According to their website, I lack the tools to properly measure the inside of a tube, or the wall thickness.  I weighted mine with an antique meat scale(Has not been calibrated in at least a decade) and it weighed in right at 1lb.

The one he posted I think is steel also.  It doesn't really add up.  Originally they were just stainless steel in the traditional design.  There was a run of carbon steel ones that to be coated black, those made in regular steel and the first design change eliminated the overhang.  I was expecting all the coated steel pieced, the SD, Griffin, Adapters and end caps that are to be offered in coated carbon steel to not have the overhang.  There must have been a run before the changes were made.

The Apogee tube is .1" to start with.  1.550 OD and 1.350 ID is .1" thickness, the diameter measurement includes two sides, .1" of Steel, 1.350" of space, .1" of Steel on the other side.  I think PDM probably had .05" taken off.

How much did you all end up paying to have the tubes turned?  One local shop is telling me $40, other has a $75min charge.

Thanks, I submitted my form 1 today.  In the interest in sound reduction I think I'll go ahead with the full tube.

My Friend's post...

Steel thread protectors up on SDTA site now.

I can't find the steel Griffin adaptors, only the SD brake ones.

Just got my tube back from the engraver and machinist.  I was wondering how it would look with the center OD turned. Looks ok actually.

I just weighed the tube, two end caps and the 7 Ti Valve stem guide baffles and all it's under 18oz.  The only pieces missing are the SS spacer which will ad about 3oz. All in all the completed unit should come in under 20oz as I'm also going to have the exit end cap bored out to lighten it up.

I'll post pics a bit later.

Looking forward to that

I also just noticed they don't have a closed "center marked" version listed.  I'm going to just call when I order but still have a couple decisions to make first.

Here's a couple pics of the almost finished can.

Pick up the spacers tomorrow and then I'm just waiting on the form 1. After that I'll get the end cap drilled and bored.  






Here's one with the psuedo-can mounted. Weight is good, no issues and weapon swings nicely. about 9oz hevier than my Trident but in line with the SDN-6. This will allow supers, which is what I want. Probably end up Cera coating it black high temp.

Living on the edge...  

 

How did you have him cut it? As in what OD's and for what lengths.


I like the look!

Also, what ID and what part number Ti Valve retainers did you end up using??? Great work BTW