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Posted: 1/1/2012 10:03:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
... So, we the end user get ****** with a higher premium because the company can't deliver what was promised? ... Only the end users who have to have one right now and can't wait until production catches up. 
Supply and demand, how does it work? 
Ya, but we, the consumer, the end user, were promised a release date and they didn't deliver, yet they put just enough out, knowing what would happen! Reasonable business practice? (sorry for the harsh language hardshell, I get mad sometimes) |
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Posted: 1/1/2012 11:24:09 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Ya, but we, the consumer, the end user, were promised a release date and they didn't deliver, yet they put just enough out, knowing what would happen! Reasonable business practice?... Personally, I would rather they didn't issue hard "release dates," but as many people have hopped up and down about refusal to set a date as have griped when such dates weren't met. Anyone surprised with this course of events with the KSG must be unaware of KT's history, esp. WRT products like the RFB and PMR. That doesn't excuse it, but the fact that fans of KT and their products aren't at all surprised by this is telling. They are a relatively small operation when you consider how much they produce each year (IIRC, they are one of the top producers/sellers of handguns in the US) and, for reasons I don't know but which have been speculated on here and elsewhere, they have remained relatively small even with the introduction of such sought after innovations as the RFB and KSG. I have read they they will undertake significant capacity expansion in 2012, and I hope that is true, but I still don't expect to be able to buy a KSG at a local shop for MSRP for at least a year. (FTR, I'd LOVE to be wrong about that.) I waited a long time to get my RFB in that manner, and I have been thrilled with it. I've owned almost everything KT has produced over the years, and I am admittedly a fan of the company and their products. Maybe that's why I take this wait for granted and don't mind it as much as most. But I agree that continually introducing innovative firearms that generate immediate interest and demand and then not being able to produce them quickly enough (at least not for the masses) has probably hurt their reputation as much as their great CS (which I've never even had to avail myself off, interestingly enough) has done to bolster it. Again, I wish they could play their cards much closer to the vest and not let info leak out until new stuff is ready to ship, but these days that seems almost impossible. |
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Posted: 1/1/2012 1:48:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ya, but we, the consumer, the end user, were promised a release date and they didn't deliver, yet they put just enough out, knowing what would happen! Reasonable business practice?... Personally, I would rather they didn't issue hard "release dates," but as many people have hopped up and down about refusal to set a date as have griped when such dates weren't met. Anyone surprised with this course of events with the KSG must be unaware of KT's history, esp. WRT products like the RFB and PMR. That doesn't excuse it, but the fact that fans of KT and their products aren't at all surprised by this is telling. They are a relatively small operation when you consider how much they produce each year (IIRC, they are one of the top producers/sellers of handguns in the US) and, for reasons I don't know but which have been speculated on here and elsewhere, they have remained relatively small even with the introduction of such sought after innovations as the RFB and KSG. I have read they they will undertake significant capacity expansion in 2012, and I hope that is true, but I still don't expect to be able to buy a KSG at a local shop for MSRP for at least a year. (FTR, I'd LOVE to be wrong about that.) I waited a long time to get my RFB in that manner, and I have been thrilled with it. I've owned almost everything KT has produced over the years, and I am admittedly a fan of the company and their products. Maybe that's why I take this wait for granted and don't mind it as much as most. But I agree that continually introducing innovative firearms that generate immediate interest and demand and then not being able to produce them quickly enough (at least not for the masses) has probably hurt their reputation as much as their great CS (which I've never even had to avail myself off, interestingly enough) has done to bolster it. Again, I wish they could play their cards much closer to the vest and not let info leak out until new stuff is ready to ship, but these days that seems almost impossible. Never been interested in Kel-tec. Never been interested in bull pup designs, until the KSG. I've never owned a KT, never held a KT, come to think of it I've not seen much of their stuff around here. Don't much care for their designs either. But the KSG is awesome! I've learned some about KT since Jan 2010. They seem pretty disinterested in meeting customers demands. I will still buy one when the opportunity presents itself, but I will never sing the praises of a company like this. And I hope your right, I hope they expand and change that reputation. |
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Posted: 1/1/2012 5:34:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Jeeeze want some cheese with that whine?
quitcher complaining and wait till the prices come down. They will. If you don't want to wait, then pay the premium price. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ... So, we the end user get ****** with a higher premium because the company can't deliver what was promised? ... Only the end users who have to have one right now and can't wait until production catches up. Supply and demand, how does it work? Ya, but we, the consumer, the end user, were promised a release date and they didn't deliver, yet they put just enough out, knowing what would happen! Reasonable business practice? (sorry for the harsh language hardshell, I get mad sometimes) |
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Posted: 1/1/2012 5:45:43 PM EDT
[#5]
Some of these complainers have no concept of the costs involved in expanding a production line.
They have no skin in the game, and are spouting forth about what the company should and should not do. Personally I am happy they are innovating. Happy they appear to be expanding in a controlled thoughtful way. Probably without incurring massive debt. which means they will probably be around for a long time to continue innovating. So word of the KSG leaked out during the prototyping phase. Im happy to hear about coming innovations. Some of you would prefer to be kept in the dark until they can spring the new product on you complete. So you don't have to endure a wait? How infantile. Man up and embrace that deferred gratification. Quoted: Quoted: Ya, but we, the consumer, the end user, were promised a release date and they didn't deliver, yet they put just enough out, knowing what would happen! Reasonable business practice?... Personally, I would rather they didn't issue hard "release dates," but as many people have hopped up and down about refusal to set a date as have griped when such dates weren't met. Anyone surprised with this course of events with the KSG must be unaware of KT's history, esp. WRT products like the RFB and PMR. That doesn't excuse it, but the fact that fans of KT and their products aren't at all surprised by this is telling. They are a relatively small operation when you consider how much they produce each year (IIRC, they are one of the top producers/sellers of handguns in the US) and, for reasons I don't know but which have been speculated on here and elsewhere, they have remained relatively small even with the introduction of such sought after innovations as the RFB and KSG. I have read they they will undertake significant capacity expansion in 2012, and I hope that is true, but I still don't expect to be able to buy a KSG at a local shop for MSRP for at least a year. (FTR, I'd LOVE to be wrong about that.) I waited a long time to get my RFB in that manner, and I have been thrilled with it. I've owned almost everything KT has produced over the years, and I am admittedly a fan of the company and their products. Maybe that's why I take this wait for granted and don't mind it as much as most. But I agree that continually introducing innovative firearms that generate immediate interest and demand and then not being able to produce them quickly enough (at least not for the masses) has probably hurt their reputation as much as their great CS (which I've never even had to avail myself off, interestingly enough) has done to bolster it. Again, I wish they could play their cards much closer to the vest and not let info leak out until new stuff is ready to ship, but these days that seems almost impossible. |
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Posted: 1/1/2012 8:50:58 PM EDT
[#6]
I also was never a fan of Kel-Tec till I saw pictures and read a few articles on it. Now thinking about adding another 12 gauge to my collection. Following this thread closely.
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Posted: 1/2/2012 12:32:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
If they didn't ship the 250 they had completed before their shop closing then people would be bitching that they hadn't been released yet. I totally dispute your assertion early buyers are stupid. We all know production is going to continue and they will be available at reasonable prices soon. If someone wants to pay a premium to get one sooner thats their business. Don't worry so much about what other people pay for something they want.  is this the first time being interested in a Kel-tec product ?
ETA: I read further down and was right. 
There is a difference between announcing a product and a named day release of said product. But, it is not so simple with Kel-Tec. For example, car's. GM announced the new Camaro's and promoted the ever living crap out of it, and it took so long to actually get the car in to production. This got a lot of car forums up in a roar about the release. A lot of butt-hurt was expelled and felt by a lot of posters and (small chance of actually buying) potential customers. GM is now building them by the ten's of thousands and it is simply demand that is helping it to maintain somewhat near MSRP pricing, with some dealers gouging , if they find the right sucker, and most dealer's gouging on most of the limited editions that will ,and or are released. Same could be said with a lot of announced car's as of lately. Kel-tec, however has a reputation for announcing a great and innovative product, delaying it, then releasing small batches. That are really beta test model's during the first few batches, until they get the product right. Then once the item is perfect in normal production run's, they will discontinue it(Sub 2k's metal predecessor) or redesign it and you have to go through the same processes again. Granted there customer service from what i have read on quite a few forums, is stellar. They will fix or replace at their discretion, and i rarely read about non satisfactory resolutions. They are probably one of the most innovative firearm manufactures in the last 40 or so years, especially taking in to account that they are only a commercial manufacturer. If only their manufacturing process, initial quality control, and quality of materials used, would match their ingenuity, they would rule the firearms industry. |
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Posted: 1/2/2012 4:21:18 PM EDT
[#8]
the gun handles nice and when it becomes more available without having to pay a premium price ill get one. Right now all you hear is bitching about how people are ripping people off for these things on gunbroker
to anyone who wines about the current going rate for these KSGs.... you have to pay to play |
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Posted: 1/3/2012 9:16:14 AM EDT
[#9]
I really commend Keltec as a company.. Their just chuggin along producing firearms. I'm glad I'm not seeing them pull a Microtech and spend huge amounts of money on a facility.. Then meet demand and go under. Keltec is a little different with having a large selection of firearms to produce so I think they could expand but that's not my call or anyone else's for that matter.
Keltec.. If your out there. Keep up the good work and ignore the whiners. Don't give a release date on your next big project and watch the bitching continue.. It's a catch 22 people! I'll be patiently waiting for a KSG to come my way. 
Yes, I've received a Shrike so I know how long someone can wait.. Ordered late Aug 2001.. Arrived early July 2010. 
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Posted: 1/4/2012 12:05:47 AM EDT
[#10]
Hawkin-
What's a Shrike? I did a search and found a handful of interesting things that go bang. |
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Posted: 1/4/2012 4:37:54 AM EDT
[#11]
I got to handle one yesterday. Neat gun. Came to my dealer and was already sold/spoken for, he said $650ish. Not interested, but neat.
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Posted: 1/4/2012 4:42:54 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Hawkin- What's a Shrike? I did a search and found a handful of interesting things that go bang. Look up Ares Shrike. Long development and production timeline but its not vaporware anymore. |
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Posted: 1/4/2012 5:14:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Just had the first one come through the shop today. Cool little gun, but not sure whether I want one after handling it. Needless to say it was sold as soon as it got there.
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Posted: 1/4/2012 5:26:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Just had the first one come through the shop today. Cool little gun, but not sure whether I want one after handling it. Needless to say it was sold as soon as it got there. After handling it- what was it that didn't do it for you? Quality? Function? Cost vs benefit? Just don't like KelTec? |
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Posted: 1/4/2012 6:50:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just had the first one come through the shop today. Cool little gun, but not sure whether I want one after handling it. Needless to say it was sold as soon as it got there. After handling it- what was it that didn't do it for you? Quality? Function? Cost vs benefit? Just don't like KelTec? For me, personally, it feels good, but it's still a pump. Given the choice (and I didn't have one, the one I held was spoken for) I'd rather a Saiga, and I left the shop with one of them. It felt impossible to reload the tubes from the ready position, and like it would be slow to reload in any position. Yes, it holds 14 rounds, and that may be sufficient for a home defense gun, but I really wanted a magazine fed shotgun. If someone came up with a semi auto bullpup that took 10 round magazines PS90 style, I'd be in like flynn. |
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Posted: 1/4/2012 7:37:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just had the first one come through the shop today. Cool little gun, but not sure whether I want one after handling it. Needless to say it was sold as soon as it got there. After handling it- what was it that didn't do it for you? Quality? Function? Cost vs benefit? Just don't like KelTec? For me, personally, it feels good, but it's still a pump. Given the choice (and I didn't have one, the one I held was spoken for) I'd rather a Saiga, and I left the shop with one of them. It felt impossible to reload the tubes from the ready position, and like it would be slow to reload in any position. Yes, it holds 14 rounds, and that may be sufficient for a home defense gun, but I really wanted a magazine fed shotgun. If someone came up with a semi auto bullpup that took 10 round magazines PS90 style, I'd be in like flynn. How will you load ps90 like magazines from the ready position? I have to move to more of a low cradle to remove/insert ps90 mags. I would be more interested in a rotary magazine that can be topped up like the johnson rifle. |
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Posted: 1/4/2012 7:48:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Quality was great, function was good, but it just didn't fit me or my shooting style. I think I would rather have a Benelli semi auto as of right now.
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Posted: 1/4/2012 9:07:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: So, during this wonderful thanksgiving, I was at my sisters house and watched/played a little Call of Duty MW3 (Mods: please don't ban me for this), and wouldn't you know it the KSG is one of the weapons available......I couldn't believe it. It is, but it certainly didn't help kel-tec's marketing campaign in anyway. One day when the tweens that play the game grow up and actually go to buy guns, they're going to remember the KSG as "That shotgun that can't hit anything past five feet." If I ever design fire arms, I won't license them out to be in any video games. |
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Posted: 1/4/2012 9:19:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just had the first one come through the shop today. Cool little gun, but not sure whether I want one after handling it. Needless to say it was sold as soon as it got there. After handling it- what was it that didn't do it for you? Quality? Function? Cost vs benefit? Just don't like KelTec? For me, personally, it feels good, but it's still a pump. Given the choice (and I didn't have one, the one I held was spoken for) I'd rather a Saiga, and I left the shop with one of them. It felt impossible to reload the tubes from the ready position, and like it would be slow to reload in any position. Yes, it holds 14 rounds, and that may be sufficient for a home defense gun, but I really wanted a magazine fed shotgun. If someone came up with a semi auto bullpup that took 10 round magazines PS90 style, I'd be in like flynn. How will you load ps90 like magazines from the ready position? I have to move to more of a low cradle to remove/insert ps90 mags. I would be more interested in a rotary magazine that can be topped up like the johnson rifle. That's an interesting idea. Especially if it was detachable as well. |
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Posted: 1/5/2012 9:54:26 AM EDT
[#20]
It says on Keltec's website that they will cycle 1.75" shells reliably. If it holds 14 rounds of 2.75 shells, it should hold 22 rounds of the 1.75. A 22 round shotgun without bulky drums and a 26" length would be incredible.
ETA - Although the minishells aren't as potent as the full sized shells but are still plenty useful for self defense. It will fire 7 00 pellets at 1200 fps, or a 386g slug at 1250 fps - basically like the reduced recoil loads many PD's are switching to. The slug would have around 1400 FPE at the barrel - basically like a .44 magnum +P+ load, maybe a little better with the heavier projectile. From their website: http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/shotguns/ksg/ " The KSG (Kel-Tec Shotgun) is Kel-Tec CNC’s first entry into the shotgun market. The size, shape, and design is similar to the currently available Kel-Tec RFB rifle, but the KSG ejects downward, instead of forward. The KSG weighs 6.9 lbs. and is as compact as legally possible with a 26.1” overall length and an 18.5” cylinder bore barrel. Even with this compact size, the internal dual tube magazines hold an impressive 12 rounds of 12 gauge 3” rounds in total (6 per tube). It can also reliably shoot shells as short as 1 3/4" up to the 3". " |
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Posted: 1/5/2012 9:57:29 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: It says on Keltec's website that they will cycle 1.75" shells reliably... Interesting. I asked KT this question directly during the KSG's development and was told that the prototypes would not do so reliably and that it wasn't going to be a priority for them to do so. Something must have changed since then. I'm a fan of the mini-shells in certain circumstances and that would be just another plus to me. |
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Posted: 1/5/2012 10:11:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Just a thought, they could easily apply this design to a .357, .44mag, or even .454 casull and make a really cool survival gun. You could get great ballistics out of an 18" barrel shooting those rounds and still have +20 capacity in the gun. It would make a nice hog hunting gun.
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Posted: 1/5/2012 6:20:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Just a thought, they could easily apply this design to a .357, .44mag, or even .454 casull and make a really cool survival gun. You could get great ballistics out of an 18" barrel shooting those rounds and still have +20 capacity in the gun. It would make a nice hog hunting gun. I had that very same thought today. a pump action 357 rifle with 20 rounds |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 5:52:11 AM EDT
[#24]
Mine came in! Boy does it shoot great, the action is very solid. Can't wait till they get more of these on the market. You all are going to love em!
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Posted: 1/6/2012 6:31:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Mine came in! Boy does it shoot great, the action is very solid. Can't wait till they get more of these on the market. You all are going to love em! http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m608/archtaan/photobucket-3963-1325623335256.jpg http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m608/archtaan/photobucket-1763-1325622925786.jpg I'm jealous. Do us a favor, pick up a box of Aguila mini shells and let us know how they feed through your gun. Also let us know how many rounds it will hold. Curious minds need to know. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 12:12:00 PM EDT
[#26]
I got to shoot mine today. Managed recoil slugs are a real pleasure to shoot. Tried some Winchester magnums and they were pretty good also. The gun is very well balanced and a great shooter. Haven't decided what optic to go with yet. Any suggestions?
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Posted: 1/6/2012 12:20:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mine came in! Boy does it shoot great, the action is very solid. Can't wait till they get more of these on the market. You all are going to love em! http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m608/archtaan/photobucket-3963-1325623335256.jpg http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m608/archtaan/photobucket-1763-1325622925786.jpg I'm jealous. Do us a favor, pick up a box of Aguila mini shells and let us know how they feed through your gun. Also let us know how many rounds it will hold. Curious minds need to know. Will do. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 12:25:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Seeing gunbroker auctions completing at $1200-$1500. Did you guys get on the early list and get them at the lower MSRP? Definitely flowing with about 15 of them listed on gunbroker.
ETA: one was a $1500 buy it now. |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 5:11:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Got mine for $581 + tax
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Posted: 1/6/2012 5:37:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Got mine for $581 + tax That's a great price |
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Posted: 1/6/2012 9:00:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Can we start a list for pricing? One where folks list sites they find w/ pricing? Of course none will have them in stock but I'd love to see the links.
When I see that folks have purchased them for sub $600... I'm listening and want to know more. Even if it's not a site that allows them to be added to a cart, or is selling them online- it'd be nice to know where they were bought. If it's some super pal deal since your buddy owns the shop, no need to make me jealous w/ the details. Here's a few to start: http://grabagun.com/kel-tec-ksg-12ga-18-5-14-1rd.html Showing it for $575 http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/item/516040_KelTec_Rifles_Shotguns_KELTEC_KSG_12GA_18_5_141RD.aspx?&w=pq%2bjdyolrqe%3d Showing it for $628. Anyone else have some tips for the "chomping at the bit" buyers? |
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Posted: 1/7/2012 7:15:25 PM EDT
[#32]
I'd be interested to know when the guys who are receiving their KSGs actually ordered them?
Ordered mine on 2/18/11 from TGScom...no word yet. Which is fine, I just wondered when these others were ordered. |
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Posted: 1/8/2012 10:56:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: I'd be interested to know when the guys who are receiving their KSGs actually ordered them? Ordered mine on 2/18/11 from TGScom...no word yet. Which is fine, I just wondered when these others were ordered. Me too. Just about the same date as you.... *EDIT* In fact it was the SAME date as you...great minds.... I ordered mine at 12:42PM |
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Posted: 1/8/2012 11:19:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Here's hopin you get yours soon! Ordered mine at 2:47 PM, so you are ahead of me! :)
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Posted: 1/9/2012 2:48:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Called TSG today. I am #51 in line to get one from them....considering they'll be lucky to get, what, 10? 15? Of 'em? Like Heinz ketchup ....anticipation .....
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/9/2012 3:57:37 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm screwed.
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Posted: 1/13/2012 3:43:04 PM EDT
[#37]
More write ups on the KSG!! Anybody get theirs? And get theirs to the range?
Problems? |
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Posted: 1/17/2012 11:10:33 AM EDT
[#38]
Has anyone seen any KSGs in a color besides the black?
At one point they had planned on making them in OD and FE. |
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Posted: 1/17/2012 11:36:57 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Has anyone seen any KSGs in a color besides the black? At one point they had planned on making them in OD and FE. Like this? 
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Posted: 1/17/2012 12:39:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Will try and make myself feel better about not having an order in by planning to get the OD version. Very nice.
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Posted: 1/17/2012 5:13:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Has anyone seen any KSGs in a color besides the black? At one point they had planned on making them in OD and FE. Like this?
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/41669-1/jessica_KSG_9921.jpg]http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/41669-1/jessica_KSG_9921.jpg]http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/41669-1/jessica_KSG_9921.jpg http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/41666-2/MHI_KSG_9922.jpg]http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/41666-2/MHI_KSG_9922.jpg]http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/41666-2/MHI_KSG_9922.jpg  
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Posted: 1/17/2012 5:18:16 PM EDT
[#42]
What kind of muzzle device is that?
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Posted: 1/17/2012 5:27:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: What kind of muzzle device is that? I was wondering the same thing –– that hasn't been on any of the others we've seen, has it? |
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Posted: 1/17/2012 5:31:47 PM EDT
[#44]
I haven't seen this one before.
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Posted: 1/17/2012 5:33:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: I haven't seen this one before. Nor have I, but I do like the look. I wonder if it is just a heavy duty thread protector? |
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Posted: 1/17/2012 5:45:06 PM EDT
[#46]
The only other one I've seen is the Carlson Comps. I've been clicking back and forth between the two photos and I can't decide which one looks better.
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Posted: 1/17/2012 8:00:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Those are Oleg Volk pictures btw, and he has an in with Kel-Tec.
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Posted: 1/17/2012 10:48:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Iit could be a choke.
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Posted: 1/18/2012 6:46:50 AM EDT
[#49]
the muzzle device on the green ksg is a "Choke Adapter". In kel tec's youtube video, they talk about it.
in this thread, oleg volk confirms: http://www.thektog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=245865 |
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Posted: 1/18/2012 9:13:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Sigh...waiting...
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