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Posted: 9/11/2023 5:28:55 PM EDT
I just received an email from Windham Weaponry stating they are going out of business and the last day to place an order is Tuesday Night September 12th.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 5:39:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Wow... I wasn't ever expecting to hear that.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 5:49:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Damn it. That sucks.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 5:50:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Depressing news. Wasn't aware that they were in financial difficulties.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 5:56:07 PM EDT
[#4]
And yet, despite Remington, Bushmaster is still making Patrolmans...
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Posted: 9/11/2023 6:12:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CouchCommando22]
[#5]
Just read the entire statement. It sucks. Always liked their barrels
https://www.windhamweaponry.com/ |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 6:15:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Damn.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 6:22:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CouchCommando22: Just read the entire statement. It sucks. Always liked their barrels https://www.windhamweaponry.com/ |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 6:44:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Ouch, what a shame.
The AR market is so saturated that if you don't have something else to also sell, you are probably going to be hurting even if you have done nothing wrong and everything right. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 7:19:45 PM EDT
[#9]
I have one of their "20-inch Government" models on layaway. I hope their QC is good because I'm sure the warranty will be voided since the company is going away.
https://www.windhamweaponry.com/firearms/rifles/223-556-caliber-rifle/20-govt-rifle/ |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 7:38:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Damn shame.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 7:52:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Sad deal. I know Richard Dyke password away awhile ago which undoubtedly had an impact on this.
Bushmaster is an icon and sad it didn’t translate as well to WW. |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 8:19:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Sad deal. I know Richard Dyke password away awhile ago which undoubtedly had an impact on this. Bushmaster is an icon and sad it didn't translate as well to WW. |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 8:30:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pb57: I have one of their "20-inch Government" models on layaway. I hope their QC is good because I'm sure the warranty will be voided since the company is going away. QC was pretty good on the WW rifles. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 8:31:56 PM EDT
[#14]
How bad do you need to be mismanaged for the last few years to be "tough"? :(
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Posted: 9/11/2023 8:36:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Windham had good quality stuff, they just didn't advertise enough to get their name out like other companies did. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chumpmiester: Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Sad deal. I know Richard Dyke password away awhile ago which undoubtedly had an impact on this. Bushmaster is an icon and sad it didn't translate as well to WW. What did they offer that isn’t readily available elsewhere? I understood their motivation when Bushmaster sold out and got sucked up but it’s a vastly different market now. Same with old DPMS |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 8:40:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#16]
Very sorry to hear it. The company was always in a tough spot. They weren't the lowest cost provider of serviceable quality firearms, but were never a premium provider either. They never really had a niche. Tended to focus on old-school AR's, which is great, but the market had moved on to flashier versions.
Bushmaster made solid AR's back in a world where only a few people made AR's. When they sold to Cerbrus (or whatever that trainwreck was), that world was changing - and they probably should have just stopped there, rather than reforming. PSA serviced the cost-effective crowd, and LaRue/Noveske/etc serviced the thick-wallet crowd. The mid-tear place has to be hard. I imagine RRA is probably sucking wind hard right now too. At least RRA caters to the Camp Perry High-Power folks, so they have some sort of an anchor. Windham never really did - and were viewed mostly as another Me-Too AR provider at a higher price-point than many, - sadly. Sorry to see them go, an end of an era in some ways. |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 8:47:27 PM EDT
[#17]
I get why they called it that but Windham Weaponry was always a stupid name.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 8:57:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pb57: I have one of their "20-inch Government" models on layaway. I hope their QC is good because I'm sure the warranty will be voided since the company is going away. https://www.windhamweaponry.com/firearms/rifles/223-556-caliber-rifle/20-govt-rifle/ Bought one a few years ago, one of my favorite rifles. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:17:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Damn. I bought one of their 20" govt models two years ago as my first-ever AR15. It's a quality rifle, but so much for the life time warranty. I swear, if it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all. Last week I ordered a CLE nm float tube for it. I'm gonna' call CLE tomorrow and see if I can cancel the order. I guess resa.Le will be "good luck", pal.
Damn. Shame. Jon |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:23:41 PM EDT
[#20]
They were just too Vanilla to compete in the modern AR market, they lost the Bushmaster name recognition and didn't offer much that was modern.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:27:05 PM EDT
[#21]
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:31:12 PM EDT
[#22]
My first two AR’s were og Bushmasters from Windham. Great guns. Hopefully someone buys their tooling and equipment and continues making good guns.
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USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:34:30 PM EDT
[#23]
That sucks.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:39:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Other than my mix masters, I have one S&W. The rest are all OG Windham made Bushmasters and Colts. I didn't know that Richard Dyke passes away.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:44:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Damn
They had good barrels. I missed the last dissipator barrel release. Wonder if we will see items up on the usual sites in a month or so. |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:45:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Very sorry to hear it. The company was always in a tough spot. They weren't the lowest cost provider of serviceable quality firearms, but were never a premium provider either. They never really had a niche. Tended to focus on old-school AR's, which is great, but the market had moved on to flashier versions. Bushmaster made solid AR's back in a world where only a few people made AR's. When they sold to Cerbrus (or whatever that trainwreck was), that world was changing - and they probably should have just stopped there, rather than reforming. PSA serviced the cost-effective crowd, and LaRue/Noveske/etc serviced the thick-wallet crowd. The mid-tear place has to be hard. I imagine RRA is probably sucking wind hard right now too. At least RRA caters to the Camp Perry High-Power folks, so they have some sort of an anchor. Windham never really did - and were viewed mostly as another Me-Too AR provider at a higher price-point than many, - sadly. Sorry to see them go, an end of an era in some ways. The ABC days. Well the A and B are pretty much gone. The C prevails. Old DPMS, RRA, Bushmaster, Old Colt. The good ol days |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:47:18 PM EDT
[#27]
I always liked Bushmaster when they were made there in Maine, had the Shorty rifle with the post ban AK Brake. Then went out and got a Windham Weaponry 20 inch Gov’t model. Last summer my girlfriend and I took a nice post Covid vacation and loaded the Subaru up with our camping equipment and drove from Detroit to Windham Maine camping at KOAs along the way. We went to the factory and they wouldn’t let us in but went to the Windham Weaponry range and gun shop next to it. They had every Windham rifle there for sale and a few special made rifles. We rented a machine gun and I bought one of the rifle. It really was a great experience.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:48:54 PM EDT
[#28]
They kind of brought it on themselves. People have been asking them to make the old retro stuff that they use to make as bushmaster since long before Brownells and now PSA have done it. They dipped their toe in the pool so to speak but never fully committed. When they did, they gave us a half hearted attempt with things like their A2 but with an 1/9 twist barrel or their attempt at an A1 but with a brass deflector. This market place now days is adapt or die. I suspect Windham won’t be the last to fall within the next few months of 2023 and 2024 will probably be worse. Right now PSA is giving the market what they want and at a price they can afford. They make a lot of stuff in house as well. So the smaller companies who are at the mercy of outside vendors are in trouble as the market continues to struggle and material cost rise.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:49:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Their "A1 Government" models sold pretty well, even though they were a hodgepodge of A1 and A2 features. Evidently they couldn't source the fixed carry handle forgings to continue making them.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:49:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Sorry to hear this and I can’t believe 12+ years have passed.
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Posted: 9/11/2023 9:55:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LineHaul: My first two AR’s were og Bushmasters from Windham. Great guns. Hopefully someone buys their tooling and equipment and continues making good guns. Same, I remember High School sitting in study hall reading a Time magazine article about the DC Sniper's Weapons, which was basically a Bushmaster Advertisement and was hooked when I saw that Rollmark. |
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Posted: 9/11/2023 10:32:31 PM EDT
[#32]
My first AR was a Windham. Got it the first year they were in business. It's still my favorite one.
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Posted: 9/12/2023 12:53:14 AM EDT
[#33]
Any potential PSA saving?
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2023 1:11:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DvlDog]
[#34]
It was bound to happen. They went to nitrided barrels, abandoned the A2 and C7 upper and generally stepped back from everything that made Bushmaster great. Yes, Bushmaster was great. If you didn’t discover ARs until 2013 or from reddit you probably want to start click-clacking “ackshually….” But if you were in this hobby during the ban years or when Colt was the best factory rifle if you could find one, then you probably have a good opinion of Bushmaster.
Who owns the Bushmaster IP these days? |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 1:22:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DvlDog: It was bound to happen. They went to nitrided barrels, abandoned the A2 and C7 upper and generally stepped back from everything that made Bushmaster great. Yes, Bushmaster was great. If you didn’t discover ARs until 2013 or from reddit you probably want to start click-clacking “ackshually….” But if you were in this hobby during the ban years or when Colt was the best factory rifle if you could find one, then you probably have a good opinion of Bushmaster. Who owns the Bushmaster IP these days? Franklin Armory does. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 1:23:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DvlDog: It was bound to happen. They went to nitrided barrels, abandoned the A2 and C7 upper and generally stepped back from everything that made Bushmaster great. Yes, Bushmaster was great. If you didn’t discover ARs until 2013 or from reddit you probably want to start click-clacking “ackshually….” But if you were in this hobby during the ban years or when Colt was the best factory rifle if you could find one, then you probably have a good opinion of Bushmaster. Who owns the Bushmaster IP these days? Franklin Armory in Cason City, Nevada, they are doing well once again but unfortunately it's Franklin Armory who are shitbags. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 1:47:31 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Miami_JBT: Other than my mix masters, I have one S&W. The rest are all OG Windham made Bushmasters and Colts. I didn't know that Richard Dyke passes away. March 1st unfortunately. http://www.bridgton.com/richard-e-dyke/ |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 1:54:14 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 9/12/2023 5:54:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Sad news indeed.
CD |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 6:57:30 AM EDT
[#40]
It is sad news. My first Ar was a Windham Weaponry that I purchased in early 2013.
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Posted: 9/12/2023 7:11:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MK318]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Any potential PSA saving? Outside of a name, what is there to save? They made nothing in house. They were essentially an assembler. They came on at the right time, 2011 was right before Obama’s second term, he was re-elected in 2012 and people were worried about an AWB, then you had Dec 2012 after Sandyhook was nuts and the market didn’t calm down for almost two years. I love the story and I’m glad people like Richard Dyke were around to save peoples jobs back then. However, since 2016 the market has cooled in a big way and they started a decline that they never fully recovered from. They weren’t the cheapest and they couldn’t be since they were buying all the parts to make their rifles. They didn’t make the best rifles and as time went on they offered even less quality while prices went up. They simply couldn’t compete with PSA who makes similar products at even lower prices. I expect companies like Del-ton and Aero Precision to be not too far behind WW. Del-tons least expensive rifle kit is $450. While over at PSA you can get a rifle kit for $299 PSA would gain nothing with the Windham Weaponry name. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 7:55:58 AM EDT
[#42]
Hate to see it and people put out of work. Can't say it was a surprise for a lot of reasons.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2023 8:32:00 AM EDT
[#43]
My first two ARs were AWB Bushmasters, a 20" HBAR with an A2 stock, and 16" pencil barrel with the atrocious fixed adjustable-looking stock.
Both were reliable and accurate with no problems I was aware of while I had them, so I'll always remember them fondly. I agree it seems especially once it became Windham, they just kind of got lost in the middle... no big name recognition, and you'd more likely buy a similar spec rifle for cheaper elsewhere, or a higher spec rifle for more. Holding on to the Bushmaster name probably would have helped. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 8:35:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: Outside of a name, what is there to save? They made nothing in house. They were essentially an assembler. They came on at the right time, 2011 was right before Obama’s second term, he was re-elected in 2012 and people were worried about an AWB, then you had Dec 2012 after Sandyhook was nuts and the market didn’t calm down for almost two years. I love the story and I’m glad people like Richard Dyke were around to save peoples jobs back then. However, since 2016 the market has cooled in a big way and they started a decline that they never fully recovered from. They weren’t the cheapest and they couldn’t be since they were buying all the parts to make their rifles. They didn’t make the best rifles and as time went on they offered even less quality while prices went up. They simply couldn’t compete with PSA who makes similar products at even lower prices. I expect companies like Del-ton and Aero Precision to be not too far behind WW. Del-tons least expensive rifle kit is $450. While over at PSA you can get a rifle kit for $299 PSA would gain nothing with the Windham Weaponry name. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MK318: Originally Posted By xxbrotherhood77: Any potential PSA saving? Outside of a name, what is there to save? They made nothing in house. They were essentially an assembler. They came on at the right time, 2011 was right before Obama’s second term, he was re-elected in 2012 and people were worried about an AWB, then you had Dec 2012 after Sandyhook was nuts and the market didn’t calm down for almost two years. I love the story and I’m glad people like Richard Dyke were around to save peoples jobs back then. However, since 2016 the market has cooled in a big way and they started a decline that they never fully recovered from. They weren’t the cheapest and they couldn’t be since they were buying all the parts to make their rifles. They didn’t make the best rifles and as time went on they offered even less quality while prices went up. They simply couldn’t compete with PSA who makes similar products at even lower prices. I expect companies like Del-ton and Aero Precision to be not too far behind WW. Del-tons least expensive rifle kit is $450. While over at PSA you can get a rifle kit for $299 PSA would gain nothing with the Windham Weaponry name. This assessment is pretty much spot on. There is no legendary mystic to the Wyndham name, and no real resources either. PSA would have a capital outlay with no real route of recovery or benefit, at a market timing where outlays are not attractive. The AR15 market has collapsed. The ArmBrace offerings revitalized and kept it going nicely. Now that those are gone,, and everyone who wants an AR15 has 5, and everyone is 30% poorer now - its got to be brutal being yet another mid-tier AR maker. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 9:21:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CouchCommando22]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: This assessment is pretty much spot on. There is no legendary mystic to the Wyndham name, and no real resources either. PSA would have a capital outlay with no real route of recovery or benefit, at a market timing where outlays are not attractive. The AR15 market has collapsed. The ArmBrace offerings revitalized and kept it going nicely. Now that those are gone,, and everyone who wants an AR15 has 5, and everyone is 30% poorer now - its got to be brutal being yet another mid-tier AR maker. PSA is the Amazon of the AR industry. It is hard to compete against them. I predict Del-Ton, RRA, Radical, and others will suffer the same fate. With companies like PSA, Aero and BCM, unless you have something unique to offer, you are not going to make it. PSA is now cornering the retro market, so that door has shut too. Like so many have said, the market is saturated with freedom. It might not be the salad days of pre-COVID Trump days, but it is the salad days of options. |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:21:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: Other than my mix masters, I have one S&W. The rest are all OG Windham made Bushmasters and Colts. I didn't know that Richard Dyke passes away. March 1st unfortunately. http://www.bridgton.com/richard-e-dyke/
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USA
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:37:26 AM EDT
[#47]
How large of a group buy would it take to keep them open
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OK, USA
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:48:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Whenever i ordered from them a lady would email me and ask me if i wanted it shipped to my home or office. I always was treated well by them.
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Posted: 9/12/2023 10:59:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RodDog: How large of a group buy would it take to keep them open You would be buying their debt. Hence why it is not a smart purchase for PSA or anyone else |
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Posted: 9/12/2023 11:11:09 AM EDT
[#50]
sad news
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