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USA
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Posted: 2/10/2005 1:52:27 PM EDT
[#1]
How's it shoot? you beat me to the punch on that pistol config. what size barrel are you using? are those carbine length handguards? |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2005 1:56:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: C_F]
[#2]
Add me to the list. Just picked up my Carbon 21S tonight. Of course I had to change the pistol grip to a Hogue and mess around with a bit better gripage on the fore end. Oh, and for shits and giggles I threw the Aimpoint on, might have to buy another now.
Edit to add: My Brother-In-Law hates me. Seems he wants one now.  
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Posted: 2/11/2005 6:38:45 AM EDT
[#3]
okay, if that's allowed then my carry handle in same position is SAME THING?!
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2005 12:04:09 PM EDT
[#4]
man, thats a tough one.....
sorta like a strap on a Mak10, I have no idea... -Jason |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2005 12:34:51 PM EDT
[#5]
In my view:
-It's in line with the barrel, good there. -It's not a grip, it's a retaining strap. My hand is still using the "from the factory legal" fore grip. I'm leaving it on. |
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Posted: 2/11/2005 2:53:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: _DR]
[#6]
Anybody want to post a hi-res pic of the receiver markings of their Carbon-15 where the markings are very legible? (black out the serial # or I will do it)
I need one for my lower receiver markings gallery I have a decent Prof. Ordnance one, but not a Bushy Carbon-15. Thanks _DR |
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Posted: 2/11/2005 2:59:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Tagged
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2005 3:26:58 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm willing but won't be able to take the pic until later this evening. Must\need to try out the new pistol at the range right after work.
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Posted: 2/11/2005 3:44:42 PM EDT
[#9]
There is no rush this is a long term thing. I will probably be be years trying to collect good images of them all. Thanks! |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2005 3:53:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Wait, you want high res and good? I may have to sub-contract this one. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2005 7:18:48 PM EDT
[#11]
_DR- Here are links to the left and right side shots. Full size but reduced. I've got the original 2+MB files if you want them. Or perhaps have me try again.
 www.sspenguins.org/cannon/BM21sRight01.jpg www.sspenguins.org/cannon/BM21sLeft01.jpg |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2005 8:25:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Just got back from Stonewall in Brecksville? Ohio... Whatta blast this thing is to shoot!
Once I shot my carbon pistol, everyone stopped, came over to see what I was shooting because it was so damn loud. This thing is WAY loud in an indoor range! My ears rang afterwards, even with double ear protection. One of the guys there refered to my pistol as a hand cannon. hile... http://www.vecco.com/images/ar_pistol_carbonfiber.JPG Bushmaster 21S Carbon Pistol w/ EOTech 550 HOLOgraphic Weapon Sight |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2005 8:53:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: monkeyman]
[#13]
OUCH! That hurt my feelings  Here's the rationale for the bipod. I shoot woodchucks at my property at long distances and I also like shooting long range steel at a couple hundred yards. The bipod is handy as a rest. I admit that the other stuff is kinda dubious but it is fun to play with. I mean WTF, it is an AR pistol, how practical is that in the first place? Besides all that crap can be taken off pretty easily. BTW, My state doesn't allow SBRs. |
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Posted: 2/11/2005 10:13:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Tagged.
Anyone know the legality of these in New York and New Jersey? Any help /info would be appreciated. GREAT thread BTW! Thanks, Hep 
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Posted: 2/11/2005 10:57:18 PM EDT
[#15]
No those are excellent, just perfect. Thank you sir, will get them added to the list with credit. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2005 11:43:04 PM EDT
[#16]
Cool, glad I could help.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2005 12:07:47 AM EDT
[#17]
id love to find a upper 7.5" with the frish guard on it anyone seen one for sale?
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Posted: 2/12/2005 8:09:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BadgerArms]
[#18]
Okay, package arrived from Bushmaster today. For some reason, they gave me bolt catch springs instead of swivel studs so I can't put the retaining plate on the rear of the receiver yet. I'll have to call them and see what's up. Here's what I found out:
- The Bushmaster bolt keeps the ejection port cover from closing therefore you'd have to just keep it off your gun or keep it open. - If you cut your bolt off like I suggested, you won't have the web at the top as I had thought. Instead, you'll have the two tines on either side only. This is because the closed portion on the unmodified carrier is not long enough. DRAT. <-- But, I'm planning on making a spacer to add about 1/16" to the buffer length so that you can cut your bolt carrier off with a web on top. Off to the machine shop. - The buffer seems like it's really effective. I've not shot it yet as I don't have my upper. I attached the buffer to my M4gery to get an idea of how it worked. Looks good enough so far. - With the Bushmaster system, you'll save 8oz of weight over using all the standard M4 or CAR parts and buffer. I don't have a Model 1 Sales buffer system and really don't want one given everything bad I've heard. Here's some pictures for your entertainment:     
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Posted: 2/12/2005 8:53:05 PM EDT
[#19]
what's teh price on that bolt carrier and buffer package?
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2005 9:31:38 PM EDT
[#20]
bushmaster told me no way in nj.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2005 9:33:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Whats the law on forward vertical grips on a pistol.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2005 9:35:26 PM EDT
[#22]
dang.. almost made it a whole page without someone asking! |
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Posted: 2/12/2005 9:35:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Look back in the thread, pg 14 at the bootom. There's all the info you need. |
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Posted: 2/12/2005 9:53:03 PM EDT
[#24]
I've had one on my pistol since the ban died. I posted pics on several threades a long time ago, around page 9 in this thread. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2005 9:53:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: C_F]
[#25]
Carbon 21S Range Report
Ammo- XM193 Surplus. Purpose: Function of firearm and mags. Blatant Observation: Loud and Bright, as in giggle loud and bright. Total rounds fired- 180 90-100 rounds without issue. So easy to control, even without the MB ( more later ). Sighted well out of the box but I was only aiming about 10 yards out. Somewhere after 100+ rounds I had failure to feed issues. A run of the charge handle and all would be well. Eventually the charge handle became the one option to chamber a round. Most of the magazines are new. Several have never been used. A few magazines became a favorite of the firearm, what a surprise.  Pretty sure more trigger time will solve any issues. If not, well, I'll call BM. An absolute blast to shoot. My first trigger pull resulted in me laughing out loud, turning my head to look at my Bro-In-Law I see he's laughing as well. Not to mention the crowd that would gather at the observation window. Too damn fun, well worth the price. OK, the muzzle brake part: I pulled it off and failed to put it back on correctly. The pistol is shot several times. At some point the MB decides to leave. I go to pack up and "WTF?!?" So BIL, my buddy and myself spent about 15 mintues looking for my MB at the far end of the range. I did find it after applying a smidge of thought. Actually looked at the the scene, came up with a "might have happened", walked down range right to the MB. Kind of freaked me out. Looking forward to getting my BM Threaded adapter and Smith Enterprise Vortex this week. Should make for an interesting outing. |
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Posted: 2/12/2005 10:32:20 PM EDT
[#26]
BTW, this is really good news BadgerArms. Thanks for finding out about this. |
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Posted: 2/12/2005 10:39:49 PM EDT
[#27]
forward pistol grips at an angle to the bore are considered a controlled feature and such pistols fall into the AOW (any other <prohibited> weapon) category and require $200 and direct registration to legally own.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/12/2005 11:11:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: C_F]
[#28]
What kills me here is the wording. If it actually states "at an angle to the bore" without going into specific angles than anything would\could be deemed illegal. Anything compared to the bore will have an angle of some kind. |
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Posted: 2/13/2005 12:10:41 AM EDT
[#29]
Well, yes actually. Never considered that. This would, of course, keep the recoil spring under tension constantly. Not really wanting that situation but you're right... it doesn't make the ejection port cover completely useless. |
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Posted: 2/13/2005 1:07:11 AM EDT
[#30]
yer preachin to the choir! PS, I think the ATF likes the ambiguity, that way they can simply apply the "law" in any way they like. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2005 11:04:50 AM EDT
[#31]
Got my cmmg pistol lower thursday. It looks nice!I built it up with my spare parts on hand and ordered the rest from M1A
7.5 A3 pistol. I used an old car buffer tube and ground of the the track with a sand paper belt grinder thing and it looks great! Saved 45$ I'll try to post pics when I finish. I can't wait |
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Posted: 2/13/2005 2:16:09 PM EDT
[#32]
There seem to be two schools of thought here. One is:
1) SCREW the BATFE! I'll do anythin I want and they can prove I'm wrong. 2) I'll make up my own conservative rules and make sure they don't get me. I think both are equally wrong. The laws are not ambiguous and those interpretations that the BATFE has put out are failry clear if themselves often open to interpretation. - Forward Grips: A 'pistol' with a vertical forward grip is not originally designed to be fired with one hand AND it has more than one vertical grip. The Law defines a pistol as:
- Receiver Origin: The BATFE suggests you get a letter from the factory stating that the gun left the factory as a component receiver or a pistol. This is because, "A weapon made from a rifle having a barrel less than 16" in length or an overall length of less than 26" is a firearm subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act." That's MADE FROM A RIFLE in case nobody bothered to read it before. It has to be a rifle first and then making it into a pistol is illegal. Says nothing about markings, 4473's, letters from the manufacturer, or anything else. Where all that crap comes in is when you try to PROVE that it's not a weapon made from a rifle. Remember, in court you'll have to defend yourself. So, if the BATFE produces a record from Bushmaster which shows they delivered to you a rifle, you are screwed. If they produce a 4473 from your dealer that says rifle, you are screwed. If they produce a log book with the receiver logged as a rifle, you are screwed. If they can't produce any of these, then they cannot prove that it was originally built into a rifle and you therefore have a pistol. Simple as that. There's some discussion about this in the following threads if anybody's interested. www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=45461&highlight=10%2F22 www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=77357&highlight=10%2F22 |
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Posted: 2/13/2005 2:17:24 PM EDT
[#33]
Forgot to add that if your pistol grip extends to the side, it's not a vertical grip. Not to feed fuel to the fire, but maybe that's not an AOW. Hold it like a Sten!
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2005 2:35:09 AM EDT
[#34]
im just waiting on my arp buffer system and my barrel from A1 then im going to try and customize a shoulder holster for it
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/16/2005 8:56:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Added a Vortex to the pistol, will be testing it out this weekend. Will post results afterwards.
The Bushmaster version:  The Vortex version:  BTW- Are these images bright enough? I noticed on some machines they seem a tad dark. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 12:58:34 AM EDT
[#36]
A little dark, not bad though. For comparison, Frisky-Ferret's UZI pics right above your's look brighter to me and that looks better, IMO.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 2:38:30 AM EDT
[#37]
Here's mine. I built it about a month ago. I had the same M1S buffer problems as everybody else, and went with the Wolff 13301 heavy .45 spring. That and the kind folks down at Oly Arms "Broke the shoulder" with a reamer. After these two tricks, the thing has gobbled up over 500 rounds without a stoppage. I have tested several sights on it, and decided it was a good application for my unused Tacpoint.
Now if one of you kind gents would just challenge the BATF interpretation of an AOW so I can put a detachable VFG on it. Until then, it's a lot of fun as is.http://home.comcast.net/~csehmel/ar15_pistolc.jpg Notice I have added a second CAR buffer tube nut to the rear. I loctited it in place at a "Sweet-Spot" where the longer Wolff Spring has enough force to cycle reliably, and yet is backed off enough to allow the bolt hold open to engage the BCG correctly. That was another problem I had, if I screwed the endcap all the way on, the pistol worked great, but the BCG wouldn't travel back far enough to engage the bolt hold open latch, the compressed spring was "bottoming out". So I backed the cap off until it worked correctly. Then I marked the spot and added the second nut. I didn't want to remove any more of the spring as it was working so well. Chris in Olympia |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 2:43:23 AM EDT
[#38]
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 2:45:15 AM EDT
[#39]
Zamo, +1 for inventivness, great job on your build!
-Jason |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 2:57:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Does anyone have a pic of one with a bayo attached, c-mag and bi-pod?
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 3:03:12 AM EDT
[#41]
Oh heck...I couldn't resist...One more!
Note I used the Mega MODEL PISTOL marked lower, bought from Carricoz as a pistol. http://home.comcast.net/~csehmel/ar15_pistold.jpg I know not to argue with numbers, math is math, but for anyone who doubts the wisdom of using a 7.5" bbl, I wouldn't worry about it. It's pretty impressive. Sure it's not generating rifle ballistics, it's a pistol. It can penetrate a seven inch log all the way through using Wolf 62gr. FMJ from 20 feet away, it ain't THAT weak. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 3:08:37 AM EDT
[#42]
and they ALWAYS look MEAN!
-Jason |
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ME, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 8:24:22 AM EDT
[#43]
Zamo- that looks great! What length handgaurd is that, and what gasblock fits under it?!
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Posted: 2/17/2005 9:01:48 AM EDT
[#44]
You (well, I) would think that this only makes sense:
Make a pistol-length upper in a PISTOL caliber for the AR platform. Doesn't anybody do it? My reasons: o I would like to build a CQB type of weapon. o 5.56 AR pistols are loud and have the huge fireball. That wouldn't be very nice indoors. o 5.56 AR pistols don't produce enough velocity for fragmentation in the "target" o Why would I want a 16" barrel for a pistol caliber upper? o To me, it would just make sense to get a 7.5" or so long upper in a PISTOL caliber BUT I CAN'T FIND ANY!! Help? |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 11:18:47 AM EDT
[#45]
So you are saying you'd like an AR pistol in a caliber like 45ACP with a 7.5 inch barrel?
Something that takes grease gun mags or something? Tha'd be UBER-kool!! |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 11:29:46 AM EDT
[#46]
Why did you ruin a perfectly good tube? |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 11:36:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Also could you mount a folding vertical grip? Because when it's closed it's parrell to the barrel so not at an angle like the atf mentions.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 12:12:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Yeah, I can't get good lighting indoors and this particular photo subject outside would probably cause a bit of concern in my condo area, no secluded photo spots. I've tried the flash but I just don't like the results. I need some kind of difuser on the flash to even out the light. Thanks for the input. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2005 12:28:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Patpimp, it's a Yankee Hill lightweight CAR length, and it has the regular oldschool style "Ground down" type of gasblock. You know, that looks like somebody just cut the top off a USGI FSB.
It works great, and I think by shrouding the gasblock, it makes it look just that much cooler, and, may actually be perhaps a little more functional. I have held it right at the end without any heat or powder residue or anything like that harming me...you just hang on tight out of trepidition... :) |
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Posted: 2/17/2005 12:38:26 PM EDT
[#50]
EXACTLY Everything I want exixts, just not all together at once! |
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