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Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 3/24/2024 1:11:34 PM EDT
The lower priced low power variable scopes like Vortex Strike Eagle and the Primary Arms and Burris competitors are around 3 to 4 hundred dollars. Obviously, someone can purchase a 3x-9x, 2x-7x, and 3x-12x variable scopes for 3 to 4 hundred dollars as well.

How much better is the glass for those medium powered variable scopes than the LPVO models mentioned? How much better is the overall quality of the medium powered scopes?

How much would someone need to spend on a LPVO to match the glass quality and overall quality of the the 3 to 4 hundred dollar medium powered scopes?
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 1:25:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-] [#1]
Having gone through the headache of an entire range trip being ruined because a friend thought we’d be able to see impacts through his $300 4-14, I’d say you unfortunately have to pay to play. Bad glass quality doesn’t get better with magnification, it gets worse.

Point being, LPVO’s get away with bad glass easier than medium and high power optics so it’s a hard question to answer with any reliability.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 1:53:58 PM EDT
[#2]
biggest problem for me is the fixed  Parallax.  if you are trying to make a precise shot at say 600 yards its not a crisp focus.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 1:54:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Short answer: cheap LPVOs are easier on the eyes than cheap MPVOs. I would agree that LPVOs can hide bad glass unless fully zoomed into the target. Curiously enough, I notice the distortion/tunneling of buget LPVOs at the 1x setting as well, so I feel that you get bad optical quality at the extremes. True 1x just doesn't happen with cheap scopes, and I think the tendency for piggyback red dots on LPVOs is a manifestation of the fact that users can't get behind their 1x quickly/comfortably. So instead we use a red dot for true 1x and then keep the LPVO in the middle of it's power range. If you are buying an LPVO thinking you can dabble in long-range shooting and stack impacts one on top of another, you will be sorely disappointed even with 8x or 10x.

Obviously, if you debating betwen LPVOs and MPVOs, you are working towards some new goal with your rifle. It is important to decide what you want to achieve, do you have a specific goal in mind? Or are you trying to stretch your rifle's capabilities in one direction by sacrificing capabilities in another direction?

I think LPVOs lend towards more accurate shot placement/PID, but I don't buy into the idea that an LPVO allows a GPR to be used for precision shooting. To accomplish that, you should opt for an MPVO.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 1:55:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: s4s4u] [#4]
All else being equal, I would guestimate about double the cost.  LPVO's have mechanical cost factors that MPVO's don't have so there is more money to spend on the glass.  If you want true 1x, with a bright reticle you are going to have to sacrifice a little on glass quality to hit the price point.  I prefer MPVO's due to the eyebox and low-light capability of the larger objective.  I have no problem getting on target up close on 2x or 3x so that reduces the need for 1x, but then I will also likely have a piggyback dot if the role may include CQB, so a bright reticle isn't critical and in fact I would eschew illumination altogether to save weight if it results in better glass.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 1:58:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Urimaginaryfrnd] [#5]
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/102489474?pid=677221
Bushnell Elite 4500 Rifle Scope 1-4 x 24 is worth the $125. It cost.  Sometimes you get a bad one but they replace it.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1094688154901?pid=617477
Athlon Optics Talos 4-16x 40 mil dot is worth the $200.it cost.
Neither are world class glass but they are useable at a bargain price. If you step up to really good glass you are well over $2000 likely over $3500. Most of us do what we can somewhere  in the middle ground.  The cheapest scope I have seen with Great glass was a fixed 6x42 IOR Valdada. In the last 15 years lots of good optics have vanished from the market.

The truth is that how repeatable the adjustments are is more important than how good the glass is which makes Nightforce scopes an excellent choice. But everything depends on how you use it.

https://swfa.com/swfa-10x42-ss-hd-mil-quad-reticle-30mm-tube-1-mil-clicks-rear-focus/

This fixed 10x42 is great glass and tough for $800.
Link Posted: 3/24/2024 7:55:09 PM EDT
[#6]
I have run the sig tango msr 1-8 as well as currently run the nightforce atacr 1-8 and razor gen iii 1-10 on my personal carbines. For the price, the tango msr was a great optic..

I have also run a sfwa fixed 10x on a bolt gun back in the 90s and early 2k. It was a heck of an optic. This was before swfa purchased them and it was a mil contract by taco.

On my mil guns I have run Leopold and other optics.

For a budget optic, I would stick woth a well known lpvo or red dot optic over a mpvo.
Link Posted: 3/26/2024 11:44:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cttb] [#7]
Terms like "glass quality" and "overall quality" are too subjective to give good answers.

With something like a Burris Signature 2-10x or a Leupold VX Freedom 2-7x or 3-9x, you will get bigger eye box and exit pupil at higher magnifications than the LPVOs you mentioned. The internal design of these scopes will be simpler, which should translate to better glass or dials for similar costs. I would expect better low light and low contrast target identification with these hunting scopes than low-end LPVOs.

However, no one will really know until they test the scopes side by side in demanding conditions. Every decent scope looks good on a bright day aimed at high contrast targets from stable positions.

Buy the scope that suits your needs and your budget best. Scopes have immutable mechanical properties that make one better suited to a particular task than another. Keep those properties in mind. Get a scope with the features you need. Features you don't need add cost and weight or take away from something else.

Scopes that do not compromise in one way or another cost well upwards of $1,000. $300-$400 scopes inherently can only gain one thing at the expense of another. Nothing in that range is necessarily "better." It's a question of what features you need and what you can give up to accomplish the task at hand.
Link Posted: 3/27/2024 1:15:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JHans7663] [#8]
Dollar for dollar you can get MPVOs that will outperform LPVOs but not all of them.

The little Leupold Vx3i 3.5-10 I used 5o have would run circles around my budget LPVOs for image quality and low light performance.  The lack of "features" results in good glass.  
Or you can step into say a Vortex DB Tactical.   It offers more features so it's glass takes a hit. Performance is similar to the budget LPVOs.  Good enough.
Link Posted: 3/27/2024 11:58:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Thanks so much for the replies.
Link Posted: 4/9/2024 7:23:51 PM EDT
[#10]
I'll break with tradition. I was running LPVOs on a few of my ars. I didn't find myself using 1x very often at all. I switched  3 of them over to a vx6hd 2-12. On 2x it's very good at short range, the all the way to 12x for distance. Now I'm no high speed operator or anything special, but we do kill 15+ hogs a week with and without clip on thermals with this setup. Shot on running hogs are very doable. I also like the Leupold due to it's weight.
Link Posted: 4/9/2024 11:30:31 PM EDT
[#11]
I find 2x just fine for up close, fast shooting. 2-7x and 2-10x are among my favorite scopes. 2-10x (or 12x) seems to be making a bit of a comeback lately.
Page AR-15 » Optics, Mounts, and Sights
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