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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 5:06:26 PM EDT
Primary Arms 8.5 oz listed weight for their micro prism is misleading as it does not include mount. I put my 5x micro w/piggy back mount & PA mini reflex red dot on the scale...1 lb! No thanks, I'll just go LPVO.
I am hoping there are some light(er) weight options out there. No red dots (Unless the dot + magnifier is still light). Magnification is a must have. I have astigmatism FWIW. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 6:09:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By RangeToy: Primary Arms 8.5 oz listed weight for their micro prism is misleading as it does not include mount. I put my 5x micro w/piggy back mount & PA mini reflex red dot on the scale...1 lb! No thanks, I'll just go LPVO. I am hoping there are some light(er) weight options out there. No red dots (Unless the dot + magnifier is still light). Magnification is a must have. I have astigmatism FWIW. Even at equal weight I will take the piggyback/prism 5x over a 1-6 LPVO when it comes to speed+accuracy overall. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 7:05:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#2]
I love PA, but their piggy back solution is garbage. It’s heavy yet weak.
I think the TA50 ACOG is the lightest set up of any meaningful magnification. It’s 5.8 ounces without the mount. The ADM B2-S in their cantilever line weighs in at 2 ounces. The RM54 RMR mount weighs under 1 ounce. The RMR weighs 1.2 ounces. By numbers you’d be at around 10 ounces, but I’m sure there could be overages that get lost somewhere. This is what I’m rolling with but haven’t got the RMR yet. You could try a TA47 2X to try and get a blend of both, but 2X is right where magnification starts messing with my eyes and making me feel like I’m wearing drunk goggles. You won’t find an LPVO that you won’t feel the weight of by the end of a long shooting session. Even a super light fire dot Leupold is still going to far exceed your current set up by the time you add a mount. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 7:15:06 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: I love PA, but their piggy back solution is garbage. It’s heavy yet weak. I think the TA50 ACOG is the lightest set up of any meaningful magnification. It’s 5.8 ounces without the mount. The ADM B2-S in their cantilever line weighs in at 2 ounces. The RM54 RMR mount weighs under 1 ounce. The RMR weighs 1.2 ounces. By numbers you’d be at around 10 ounces, but I’m sure there could be overages that get lost somewhere. This is what I’m rolling with but haven’t got the RMR yet. You could try a TA47 2X to try and get a blend of both, but 2X is right where magnification starts messing with my eyes and making me feel like I’m wearing drunk goggles. You won’t find an LPVO that you won’t feel the weight of by the end of a long shooting session. Even a super light fire dot Leupold is still going to far exceed your current set up by the time you add a mount. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 7:28:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: not interested in 2x. Not enough magnification How far do you plan to shoot it? |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 7:39:50 PM EDT
[#5]
I love PA, but their piggy back solution is garbage. It’s heavy yet weak. Second time I have read this today. I have their original 5x prism with a piggyback RDS and actually do like it despite the ^ It is unfortunate that they can't come up with a more durable option with the micro's, because I could lose a few ounces there. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 8:35:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: Second time I have read this today. I have their original 5x prism with a piggyback RDS and actually do like it despite the ^ It is unfortunate that they can't come up with a more durable option with the micro's, because I could lose a few ounces there. Yeah I’m hoping the new Gen II microprism will address that. There’s more than a few videos of their piggy back mount caving in from drops that would be inconsequential to most optics. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 10:30:53 PM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By RangeToy: Primary Arms 8.5 oz listed weight for their micro prism is misleading as it does not include mount. I put my 5x micro w/piggy back mount & PA mini reflex red dot on the scale...1 lb! No thanks, I'll just go LPVO. 16oz for a 5x prism, mount and 1x isn’t outrageous. Consider that a P4xi is 17.3oz + mount. A Delta Stryker 1-6x is 17.9oz + mount. A Leupold Mark 3HD 1.5-4x is 13.6oz + mount. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 10:56:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Luny421: Spoiler alert, LPVOs are also listed without including the weight of the mount. 16oz for a 5x prism, mount and 1x isn’t outrageous. Consider that a P4xi is 17.3oz + mount. A Delta Stryker 1-6x is 17.9oz + mount. A Leupold Mark 3HD 1.5-4x is 13.6oz + mount. Spoiler alert, if PA did not false advertise their weights on their site, I'd just stick with my SD rifle with Vortex LPVO. Also, unless you have real input on reducing weight, why post? Good day |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 11:05:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Leupold 1.5-4x is about 9oz. Drop it in a couple 1.5" height rings and you're under 1lb easy. Could do an Aero mount but I'm not a fan.
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Posted: 3/11/2024 11:13:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: Spoiler alert, if PA did not false advertise their weights on their site, I'd just stick with my SD rifle with Vortex LPVO. Also, unless you have real input on reducing weight, why post? Good day [sigh] you should sue PA for false advertisement |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 11:26:29 PM EDT
[#11]
OP how many threads are you going to start, complaining that PA lists their optic weights exactly like every other optics manufacturer? They don’t list the mount weight because there are so many aftermarket mount options available.
Lightweight carbines are fun and can be made reliable but they are not SHTF guns. BTW, eight pounds for a carbine with 1x and 5x mag capability is by no means heavy. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 11:30:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Luny421]
[#12]
All I ask is that once you’ve settled on an optic setup, you come back and post the overall weight of whatever you decide on. For science.
ETA I could give a fuck about the overall weight of your firearm, but at this point (and multiple threads worth) I am thoroughly invested in the weight of your optic setup so please keep us posted |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 12:31:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony]
[#13]
Wrong thread.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2024 10:14:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustDaniel: OP how many threads are you going to start, complaining that PA lists their optic weights exactly like every other optics manufacturer? They don’t list the mount weight because there are so many aftermarket mount options available. Lightweight carbines are fun and can be made reliable but they are not SHTF guns. BTW, eight pounds for a carbine with 1x and 5x mag capability is by no means heavy. This isn't a debate about what is considered heavy. This is about I want MY rifle lighter than this. I did not say lightest ever either. Do you have an optic to suggest? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2024 12:27:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RangeToy]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Luny421: Spoiler alert, LPVOs are also listed without including the weight of the mount. 16oz for a 5x prism, mount and 1x isn’t outrageous. Consider that a P4xi is 17.3oz + mount. A Delta Stryker 1-6x is 17.9oz + mount. A Leupold Mark 3HD 1.5-4x is 13.6oz + mount. Spoiler alert, most LPVOs do not come with a mount duh. ;) The PA units come mounted on a PA mount so they should either list that total weight or also include the mount weight on the site. I know LPVOs are heavy. I have a Vortex Viper on another rifle... |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2024 1:05:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JustDaniel]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: This isn't a debate about what is considered heavy. This is about I want MY rifle lighter than this. I did not say lightest ever either. Do you have an optic to suggest? Understood and I’m sorry but I do not based on what you have posted thus far. It’s either an lpvo or a fixed prism and since you’ve ruled out scopes and PA prisms, that leaves acog and those are not any lighter. An RDS and magnifier combo will also weigh more than a PA prism. I suppose there are some other brands like monstrum etc but I would not consider them for anything beyond a range gun. One of the reasons PA doesn’t list total weight with mount is probably because it comes with a dozen different risers and they have no idea what combination the user will choose. ETA: the two bolt interface of the PA mount does add a little weight which can be resolved with an ADM or Bobro mount, bobro being the lighter of the two. All though neither are going to save that much weight, an aftermarket mount should be considered since the PA mounts have had issues in the past. That’s the first thing that I do with the PA prisms with exception to a 300 BO rig used for deer.  |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2024 3:56:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JustDaniel: Understood and I’m sorry but I do not based on what you have posted thus far. It’s either an lpvo or a fixed prism and since you’ve ruled out scopes and PA prisms, that leaves acog and those are not any lighter. An RDS and magnifier combo will also weigh more than a PA prism. I suppose there are some other brands like monstrum etc but I would not consider them for anything beyond a range gun. One of the reasons PA doesn’t list total weight with mount is probably because it comes with a dozen different risers and they have no idea what combination the user will choose. ETA: the two bolt interface of the PA mount does add a little weight which can be resolved with an ADM or Bobro mount, bobro being the lighter of the two. All though neither are going to save that much weight, an aftermarket mount should be considered since the PA mounts have had issues in the past. That’s the first thing that I do with the PA prisms with exception to a 300 BO rig used for deer. No worries. I did not rule out PA micro prism. I have an ADM mount on order for it & I am going to switch BCG. Both of those changes should shave 7 ish oz off. I see that Leupold has a couple scopes that only weigh 9 oz, but I do not care for the reticles. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:48:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Yeah I’m hoping the new Gen II microprism will address that. There’s more than a few videos of their piggy back mount caving in from drops that would be inconsequential to most optics. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Originally Posted By s4s4u: Second time I have read this today. I have their original 5x prism with a piggyback RDS and actually do like it despite the ^ It is unfortunate that they can't come up with a more durable option with the micro's, because I could lose a few ounces there. Yeah I’m hoping the new Gen II microprism will address that. There’s more than a few videos of their piggy back mount caving in from drops that would be inconsequential to most optics. Yeah they knocked it out of the park with their prism but their RDS mounting solution is straight dumbo sauce. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:08:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By doty_soty: Yeah they knocked it out of the park with their prism but their RDS mounting solution is straight dumbo sauce. With a giant side of WTF. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 2:04:02 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: No worries. I did not rule out PA micro prism. I have an ADM mount on order for it & I am going to switch BCG. Both of those changes should shave 7 ish oz off. I see that Leupold has a couple scopes that only weigh 9 oz, but I do not care for the reticles. I’d be reluctant to expect a loss of 7 ounces. Seems like something isn’t adding up there. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 10:37:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: I’d be reluctant to expect a loss of 7 ounces. Seems like something isn’t adding up there. Ya, and if half of that is coming from the BCG there will have to be other adjustments to balance that. A few ounces isn't as important as reliability, IMO |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:01:04 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: I’d be reluctant to expect a loss of 7 ounces. Seems like something isn’t adding up there. Just a rough estimate. I won't know till I get it on the scale after the new stuff is installed. I didn't order a low mass BCG or anything so reliability should still be fine. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:24:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Things like optics can only get so light especially if you want magnification, pick what you like and live with it. When you are talking about shaving a pound or so is one thing, but shaving the weight of a couple of apples it just isn't a big deal in the scheme of things.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 2:06:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JimmyAR: Things like optics can only get so light especially if you want magnification, pick what you like and live with it. When you are talking about shaving a pound or so is one thing, but shaving the weight of a couple of apples it just isn't a big deal in the scheme of things. My old eyes + astigmatism sadly = no dot for this one. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2024 11:14:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: My old eyes + astigmatism sadly = no dot for this one. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: Originally Posted By JimmyAR: Things like optics can only get so light especially if you want magnification, pick what you like and live with it. When you are talking about shaving a pound or so is one thing, but shaving the weight of a couple of apples it just isn't a big deal in the scheme of things. My old eyes + astigmatism sadly = no dot for this one. Oh, trust me I'm there as well. It's why I have the SLx1 on one rifle and looking at either the GLx2 or the waiting to arrive the GLx1. I live in the woods and will maybe die in the woods, so I don't need a lot of magnification. Good luck to ya bud... |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 4:57:47 PM EDT
[#26]
I got a new scale & weighed the optics again
The PA 3x micro showed 8.96 oz The PA 5x micro w/piggy back mount & mini reflex dot showed 12.52 oz |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 6:26:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: I got a new scale & weighed the optics again The PA 3x micro showed 8.96 oz The PA 5x micro w/piggy back mount & mini reflex dot showed 12.52 oz The ADM mount arrived. I put that & the PA mount on the scale. Pretty much same weight lol |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/15/2024 8:49:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: I got a new scale & weighed the optics again The PA 3x micro showed 8.96 oz The PA 5x micro w/piggy back mount & mini reflex dot showed 12.52 oz If the piggyback hookup is solid this would save me 8oz. I have concerns that the micro eye relief might not be as forgiving as the early PA 5x prism I have. As has been said a few times, I don't mind a few ounces as long as it doesn't affect the overall handling and balance. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 3:48:37 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: The ADM mount arrived. I put that & the PA mount on the scale. Pretty much same weight lol Yeah I'm not sure what exactly you were expecting, just looking at the adm mounts vs the factory mounts I have a hard time imagining you could get much lighter and not sacrifice quite a lot in terms of durability, and the adm mounts don't look like they use much less material.. At least you have a stronger mount (at least according to the internet). |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:24:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NewWind: Yeah I'm not sure what exactly you were expecting, just looking at the adm mounts vs the factory mounts I have a hard time imagining you could get much lighter and not sacrifice quite a lot in terms of durability, and the adm mounts don't look like they use much less material.. At least you have a stronger mount (at least according to the internet). & It's QD so I can swap optics if I want |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:33:32 AM EDT
[#31]
RT, you've already arrived at the lightest setup with the PA micro. If you're willing to forego the red dot Hawke has some interesting prisms ~10oz, a 4x24 and a 6x36. I can't comment to the quality but they should probably compare to a PA. There's also the Vortex Spitfire 5x which does have an RDS solution, I ordered both it and the PA micro 5x and returned the PA.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: If the piggyback hookup is solid this would save me 8oz. I have concerns that the micro eye relief might not be as forgiving as the early PA 5x prism I have. As has been said a few times, I don't mind a few ounces as long as it doesn't affect the overall handling and balance. You'd definitely give up some eye relief/ eye box for weight. Prisms do balance well, by necessity since they have to hang off the back of the receiver to see through them. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 1:27:38 PM EDT
[#32]
You'd definitely give up some eye relief/ eye box for weight. Prisms do balance well, by necessity since they have to hang off the back of the receiver to see through them. I do have a prism, but it is the older PA version that is the entire length of the upper receiver rail. The eye relief is rather generous and perfect for A1 stock length for me. My concern is the newer mini and micro stuff. I do like my PIG of a rig, but I wouldn't mind it being a little lighter as long as I don't sacrifice eyebox too much. 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 2:54:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RangeToy]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: I do have a prism, but it is the older PA version that is the entire length of the upper receiver rail. The eye relief is rather generous and perfect for A1 stock length for me. My concern is the newer mini and micro stuff. I do like my PIG of a rig, but I wouldn't mind it being a little lighter as long as I don't sacrifice eyebox too much. https://i.imgur.com/NKZ3FYO.jpg Unless you like shooting with your stock extended a lot or toward the end of the stock with your cheek weld, you'll be fine with the micro. I shoot nose to charging handle sometimes a little back from that. |
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Posted: 3/16/2024 4:12:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: I do have a prism, but it is the older PA version that is the entire length of the upper receiver rail. The eye relief is rather generous and perfect for A1 stock length for me. My concern is the newer mini and micro stuff. I do like my PIG of a rig, but I wouldn't mind it being a little lighter as long as I don't sacrifice eyebox too much. https://i.imgur.com/NKZ3FYO.jpg I ran the fully 5X for years. I can only compare to the 3X micro. The 5X had the more stable peak eye box. Meaning at full field of view/peak eye relief it was more forgiving. The 3X has a larger useable eye box though. Meaning you can be further out of eye relief while still having a useable sight picture and okay exit pupil forgiveness. The micros will shadow the prism relatively easy whether you’re forward or behind the peak eye relief. That’s a deal breaker for some as they think any shadowing is end of the road. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 5:20:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: I ran the fully 5X for years. I can only compare to the 3X micro. The 5X had the more stable peak eye box. Meaning at full field of view/peak eye relief it was more forgiving. The 3X has a larger useable eye box though. Meaning you can be further out of eye relief while still having a useable sight picture and okay exit pupil forgiveness. The micros will shadow the prism relatively easy whether you’re forward or behind the peak eye relief. That’s a deal breaker for some as they think any shadowing is end of the road. Speaking of the PA 5x & 3x micros, anyone running them without a red dot as well on a rifle that isn't just a range toy? |
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Posted: 3/16/2024 7:09:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Just FYI, the 5x doesn't have the donut, just the chevron reticle. For me, that wouldn't work as a CQC optic. 3x would be the most magnification. I'm using the 2x right now, but debating on switching back to a 3x. Also, waiting on the new 1x.
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USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 7:15:53 PM EDT
[#37]
microprisms are the lightest magnified optics, full stop. maybe ditch the red dot? you don't really need a 1x (
 HERESY!!!) when bindon aiming is so easy. or you could get that 10oz leupold and put it in a potmetal aero mount. that would be like 1oz lighter than your current setup. alot more fragile and bulky, too. but it's technically lighter, although you wouldn't know it by feel.
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2024 9:19:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JustDaniel]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RangeToy: Speaking of the PA 5x & 3x micros, anyone running them without a red dot as well on a rifle that isn't just a range toy? I run two rigs with 3x only, no issues. I just shoot BAC for close in work. Same as we did with the TA31s for years.  ETA: This one started out with offset irons but I never really needed them so I replaced them with MBUIS. |
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