User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/30/2022 4:30:43 PM EDT
I know, I know, it is allegedly non-removable, but everything is removable, lol. I can't leave things alone and I am rarely a fan of factory barrel profiles and shoulder details. I am a big PSA fan but I will admit my disdain for the profile and shoulder configuration of every 5/8-24 threaded barrel I have ever seen or owned from PSA (those of my silencer customers and my own .300 BO and 6.5G, I am a 07FFL/02SOT). For my own they are never left as-is. In the meantime, I'd like to think about it for a while and was wondering how the barrel is retained. Is there a proprietary barrel nut, it is pressed and pinned into a trunnion, or? Pics?
|
|
|
|
TN, USA
|
Posted: 8/30/2022 6:08:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz: I know, I know, it is allegedly non-removable, but everything is removable, lol. I can't leave things alone and I am rarely a fan of factory barrel profiles and shoulder details. I am a big PSA fan but I will admit my disdain for the profile and shoulder configuration of every 5/8-24 threaded barrel I have ever seen or owned from PSA (those of my silencer customers and my own .300 BO and 6.5G, I am a 07FFL/02SOT). For my own they are never left as-is. In the meantime, I'd like to think about it for a while and was wondering how the barrel is retained. Is there a proprietary barrel nut, it is pressed and pinned into a trunnion, or? Pics? I tried to pull the rail and I gave up. I at least wanted a peak under the hood but the Allen’s wouldn’t spin. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2022 7:08:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By forgottenben: I tried to pull the rail and I gave up. I at least wanted a peak under the hood but the Allen’s wouldn’t spin. You might try a little heat. Maybe hold a soldering iron to the head of the screws until you start to see a little smoke (vaporized thread locker, lol) and then give it a go. A blowdryer may get it if you don't have a heat gun. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2022 9:29:33 PM EDT
[#3]
The barrel is similar to an ar15 barrel except there are some relief cuts for some clearances unique to the jakl. The main difference is the barrel extension. It is VERY different from an AR15 and 100 percent unique to the JAKL.
Hopefully that helps. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/30/2022 10:03:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jman_JJE: The barrel is similar to an ar15 barrel except there are some relief cuts for some clearances unique to the jakl. The main difference is the barrel extension. It is VERY different from an AR15 and 100 percent unique to the JAKL. Hopefully that helps. That helps some, yes. Can you post a pic, lol?  I have been looking at some videos and it appears to have some sort of trunnion inside the aluminum chassis, correct? Then the barrel extension is secured inside of the trunnion, correct? I can't wait to get my hands on one of these but it may be a while. I think the JAKL may end up being the biggest PSA hit of all time. Keep up the great work! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2023 12:58:56 AM EDT
[#5]
I know I am way late to the party, but I tore my JAKL down when I got it back in January. Attached are the components. The barrel looks like it started life as an AR barrel and was either threaded or pressed into the trunnion, I can't remember which.
Don't mine the AK recoil spring and guide rod. It's there as a comparison.  Attached File Attached File |
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 6/18/2023 1:15:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: evlblkwpnz]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zaitsev44: I know I am way late to the party, but I tore my JAKL down when I got it back in January. Attached are the components. The barrel looks like it started life as an AR barrel and was either threaded or pressed into the trunnion, I can't remember which. Don't mine the AK recoil spring and guide rod. It's there as a comparison. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/452589/JAKL_1_jpg-2854179.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/452589/JAKL_2_jpg-2854180.JPG I appreciate it. I was hoping to reprofile mine and shed a little weight, but I had to sell my lathe. Looks like a great excuse to find another one with about a 3" spindle bore ;) |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 10/20/2023 8:38:19 PM EDT
[#7]
How hard was it to pull the barrel? Do we know what the torque specs are for reinstalling it? I'm getting ready to order a 13.5" and am wondering if I can get the barrel turned down a bit. I imagine PSA will eventually offer lighter barrels...but will the offer them stand alone so owners can refit?
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 10/20/2023 11:00:18 PM EDT
[#8]
My shop apprentice pulled his jakl apart, changed his 10.5" barrel to a standard 16, then later chopped and threaded P&W 14.5" barrel. They are standard barrels, just without the barrel extension; the jakl front trunnion IS the barrel extension. You cannot simply screw in the new barrel, as the gas port has a 1/360 chance of lining up. You could shim the barrel to the trunnion if its close enough, or lathe a bit from the shoulder, maybe ream the chamber deeper. He welded closed the existing gas port and drilled a new one at the proper spot. If one could get a barrel without a gas port drilled and without a barrel extension, that would be ideal. Have to find the barrel OEM and ask pretty please.
You need a barrel vise, barrel extension wrench (for removal), and some big wrenches (I forget the size) for the jakl trunnion. We change barrels on K98 Mausers all the time, which are TIGHT tight.  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2023 11:42:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 19Charlie_84: My shop apprentice pulled his jakl apart, changed his 10.5" barrel to a standard 16, then later chopped and threaded P&W 14.5" barrel. They are standard barrels, just without the barrel extension; the jakl front trunnion IS the barrel extension. You cannot simply screw in the new barrel, as the gas port has a 1/360 chance of lining up. You could shim the barrel to the trunnion if its close enough, or lathe a bit from the shoulder, maybe ream the chamber deeper. He welded closed the existing gas port and drilled a new one at the proper spot. If one could get a barrel without a gas port drilled and without a barrel extension, that would be ideal. Have to find the barrel OEM and ask pretty please. You need a barrel vise, barrel extension wrench (for removal), and some big wrenches (I forget the size) for the jakl trunnion. We change barrels on K98 Mausers all the time, which are TIGHT tight. https://i.imgur.com/eSV1AM3.jpg https://i.imgur.com/8NIZgEO.jpg Tighter than an AR barrel extension? We tried heat and built a custom extension remover but ended u using a parting tool to relieve the shoulder pressure on M16 barrels to reuse the extensions when my unit couldn't get them readily back in the 90s. |
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 10/21/2023 12:48:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KYB762: Tighter than an AR barrel extension? We tried heat and built a custom extension remover but ended u using a parting tool to relieve the shoulder pressure on M16 barrels to reuse the extensions when my unit couldn't get them readily back in the 90s. JAKL is red loctited as well, AR barrel extension is 200 ft lbs plus the index pin. K98 barrels were installed by a machine 80ish years ago and have that also have 80 years of rust and grime also holding it together. I've had my 240lb ass and a 4ft breaker bar bouncing on a K98 to break it loose. Just talked to apprentice in shoppe today, took him 3 hours to remove the jakl barrel. It is doable, it's not fun tho. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 10/21/2023 5:28:37 PM EDT
[#11]
Wow. There's no way I could do all that. I can (and just did yesterday) pull and reinstall an AR barrel in minutes. I don't see me attempting that with a JAKL. I would love to get the barrel turned down to a lighter profile, I'd just have to grit my teeth, look the other way and hope it all comes out well....
This something you considering offering to other JAKL owners? |
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 10/21/2023 9:04:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roninsan: Wow. There's no way I could do all that. I can (and just did yesterday) pull and reinstall an AR barrel in minutes. I don't see me attempting that with a JAKL. I would love to get the barrel turned down to a lighter profile, I'd just have to grit my teeth, look the other way and hope it all comes out well.... This something you considering offering to other JAKL owners? Yes, we are looking into it. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 10/22/2023 9:12:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Awesome! I would definitely want to slim down the factory barrel, or even replace it with something lighter. Will definitely look forward to working with you on this. Do you have a website or link to it?
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 10/22/2023 9:25:24 PM EDT
[#14]
The weight isn't really in the barrel, its the upper and the handguard.
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 10/23/2023 6:35:27 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm sure, but what can be done about that? Easier to turn down the barrel to a lighter profile than to try and machine away material from the upper / handguard, no?
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 10/23/2023 7:21:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roninsan: I'm sure, but what can be done about that? Easier to turn down the barrel to a lighter profile than to try and machine away material from the upper / handguard, no? wait for PSA to release a lightweight hand guard. maybe something poly. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 10/24/2023 9:32:58 AM EDT
[#17]
With their current demand, that could be a while...
Josiah, care to weigh in on that?? |
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 10/24/2023 11:49:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roninsan: I'm sure, but what can be done about that? Easier to turn down the barrel to a lighter profile than to try and machine away material from the upper / handguard, no? Lathing barrel steel is A method, but now you'll have less rigidity and more barrel whip. Machining aluminum is much easier because its soft. I'm sure they made the upper as chonky as it needs to be for function. Its not an AR, its a different animal that needs a different receiver than an AR. The 14.5" and 16" rail versions have that extra bit of rail in front of the gas block with a hole for adjustment, kinda silly to have that extra space and a more difficult way to access adjuster knob. Personally I would cut that part off, sacrificing 2" of potential sight radius for unfettered access to the gas regulator. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 10/24/2023 5:52:14 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm planning on ordering the 13.7" upper as it comes with the shorter rail, how would one go about reducing weight on that, I don't have access to a mill. And as stated, they made it as heavy as they did for a reason, I don't want to get into structural integrity issues milling down the upper. That's why I was looking into just turning down the barrel a few thousandths....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/25/2023 5:18:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 19Charlie_84: JAKL is red loctited as well, AR barrel extension is 200 ft lbs plus the index pin. K98 barrels were installed by a machine 80ish years ago and have that also have 80 years of rust and grime also holding it together. I've had my 240lb ass and a 4ft breaker bar bouncing on a K98 to break it loose. Just talked to apprentice in shoppe today, took him 3 hours to remove the jakl barrel. It is doable, it's not fun tho. 200? Damn. Thanks for that info, I'll keep that in mind if and when i start messing with mine. |
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 11/7/2023 3:55:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 19Charlie_84: Lathing barrel steel is A method, but now you'll have less rigidity and more barrel whip. Machining aluminum is much easier because its soft. I'm sure they made the upper as chonky as it needs to be for function. Its not an AR, its a different animal that needs a different receiver than an AR. The 14.5" and 16" rail versions have that extra bit of rail in front of the gas block with a hole for adjustment, kinda silly to have that extra space and a more difficult way to access adjuster knob. Personally I would cut that part off, sacrificing 2" of potential sight radius for unfettered access to the gas regulator. So I got my JAKL upper about a week after the stock kit came in. Some observations without having shot it yet; Yes, it is nose heavy as hell. I'm not sure why they went with such a heavy profile barrel. I've no doubt it will hold up to a good amount of sustained fire, but for what could be a nice, light carbine, I think the profile (for me) is too heavy. I'm hoping someone will offer service like turning it down or PSA provides a lighter barrel. The stock is more robust than I first thought. While it doesn't lock closed, neither does the Army's new M5 rifle. And I could buy two or three more JAKL's for that money. I'd like to see more clearance between the gas block and the rail. It doesn't touch, but it's close enough to radiate heat to the rail. There's enough rail there to open it up a little more and cut down on heat transfer. Here's something I noticed too. The pin and weld looks to be very easy to remove if you want to change the muzzle device. VERY easy. However, I'm wondering if someone could come up with a blast can that would attach the same way the suppressor would? Mine came with the JMAC device and it's got the quick attach grooves, I would think a blast can could be made up to just attach the same way. (Hint Hint.) Overall I think I'm going to really like this rifle. A few tweaks here and there and she ought to fill the role of my primary rifle. Now, if we can just get that JAKL upper for a KS47 lower.... |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 11/7/2023 3:57:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Oh, one other thing, the weight isn't in the upper receiver, it's the barrel and the BCG. That BCG weighs a lot, which should help with reliability, but it is heavy! I doubt there's much you can do about that unless you're a mad scientist with a milling machine.
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 11/7/2023 4:26:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: giantpune]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roninsan: Oh, one other thing, the weight isn't in the upper receiver, it's the barrel and the BCG. That BCG weighs a lot, which should help with reliability, but it is heavy! I doubt there's much you can do about that unless you're a mad scientist with a milling machine. Jakl 10.5" BGC and recoil spring (basically the AK looking parts) is 1.3lb AR-15 BCG, recoil spring, and buffer is 1.186lb Jakl BCG and recoil parts are 1.8oz heavier. Not much weight at all. Granted, the weight is not as close to the butt as an AR, so it may feel a bit heavier. I didn't have a spare AR gas tube laying around to toss in the pile. I bet that would make up the 1.8oz different and it would be a wash. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 11/7/2023 5:36:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Yeah, the difference being the weight is further forward on the JAKL. The only part I see being somewhat easy to lose some weight on is the barrel. I'm sure one could remove some weight from the BCG, but without going into the whole structural engineering thing, it would just be easier to turn the barrel or replace it with a lighter one. This thing is heavier than a SCAR 16 when it doesn't need to be. A lighter barrel and we're into a really handy rifle.
I hope PSA is listening... |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 11/21/2023 5:09:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Haas anyone gotten barrel work done on their JAKL yet? This thing so needs to lose some weight...
|
|
|
UT, USA
|
Posted: 11/21/2023 6:31:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Just10mm]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roninsan: Yeah, the difference being the weight is further forward on the JAKL. The only part I see being somewhat easy to lose some weight on is the barrel. I'm sure one could remove some weight from the BCG, but without going into the whole structural engineering thing, it would just be easier to turn the barrel or replace it with a lighter one. This thing is heavier than a SCAR 16 when it doesn't need to be. A lighter barrel and we're into a really handy rifle. I hope PSA is listening... A lightweight profile, chrome lined barrel would be a hot seller. I paid $ 830 for a 14.5 PW upper, I’d have gladly payed a couple hundred dollars more for a lightweight, chrome lined option. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 11/21/2023 7:34:48 PM EDT
[#27]
RIIIIIGHT?!?!? I've been looking around to see if there's anyone offering services on the JAKL yet, like turning down the barrel, with no luck. I'm thinking they don't know how to pull the barrel yet so they're not willing to take on the project.
I'm betting if you turned down the barrel from the gas block forward, it would make a lot of difference. All the weight is out front, trim that down and it would shift the balance back some. My only issue thus far... |
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 11/22/2023 12:09:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Not that we haven't figured it out, the barrel is already pretty thin profile, lathing down to a pencil profile reduces weight by maybe 2 oz. Its negligible. The juice : squeeze ratio is not worth it. Plus a thinner barrel will whip much more, heat faster, and be less accurate.
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 11/22/2023 1:23:16 PM EDT
[#29]
I could be wrong, but the 13.7" barrel on my JAKL appears to be much thicker profile than on my AR's sporting M4 profile barrels. I haven't measured it, but it definitely feels heavier.
I understand what you're saying about barrel whip, but I don't see that being an issue here because 1) it's only 13" long and 2) it's a carbine, not a long range rifle. I've no doubt it'll shoot better than the 4MOA the army specs for the M4, which is fine with me as I found out the hard way, you can't shoot that tight in combat anyway. I'm good with Minute-of Taliban... I am surprised that turning down a factory barrel would only net 2 oz. I'd think it would be much more, but what do I know? I'd love to put a truly light weight barrel on this thing, and can only hope at this point I can either get someone to turn it down or wait for PSA to offer lighter barrels... |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 11/22/2023 4:44:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Poly handguard swap would help.
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 11/22/2023 7:48:23 PM EDT
[#31]
If they made one...
|
|
|
OR, USA
|
Posted: 12/7/2023 1:51:58 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By billth777: wait for PSA to release a lightweight hand guard. maybe something poly. Seems more likely an enterprising 3d printer fella will do, than for PSA to get on it quickly |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 12/7/2023 7:10:33 PM EDT
[#33]
I can't see a plastic handguard reducing the weight of the JAKL that much. The rail and receiver are monolithic, with just a small lower handguard. It may reduce the weight some, but I don't think it would be enough.
Maybe my eyes are off, and I haven't drug out the micrometer yet, but the JAKL barrel looks notably heavier profile than my M4 profile barrels. At least from just behind the gas block to the muzzle. I also have pencil profile barrels on two rifles, and they are dramatically lighter profile than the JAKL. They run and shoot fine, yes, they get hot, but I doubt you could overheat them with a semi auto rifle. I don't see how putting a lighter profile barrel on a JAKL would be adverse to performance unless you're playing Navy SEAL mag dump all day at the range... |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 12/7/2023 7:19:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Ok, I just measured the barrel on my JAKL just in front of the gas block, .799. I would say that's a good bit heavier than a standard M4 profile. I'm not a gun smith, nor a machinist, or engineer, but I have a carbine with a .625 barrel, so I can't understand why you couldn't turn down a .799 barrel to a lighter profile without turning the thing into a small-bore shotgun. Of course, someone will weigh in and point out how ignorant I am about barrel profiles...
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 12/7/2023 11:06:34 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roninsan: Ok, I just measured the barrel on my JAKL just in front of the gas block, .799. I would say that's a good bit heavier than a standard M4 profile. I'm not a gun smith, nor a machinist, or engineer, but I have a carbine with a .625 barrel, so I can't understand why you couldn't turn down a .799 barrel to a lighter profile without turning the thing into a small-bore shotgun. Of course, someone will weigh in and point out how ignorant I am about barrel profiles... Sure about that? The JAKLs I've seen use a .750" gas block. It doesn't make sense for PSA to use non-standard gas block and barrel profile dimensions. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 12/8/2023 2:19:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Measured it twice because I was like "WTH??" It's a beast of a barrel...
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 12/8/2023 9:59:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Interesting. I got a 14.5" today and its standard .750 GB and .740 forward of GB. It is heavy, lot of aluminum up front. No thicker than standard 14.5" midlength AR barrel tho. Is yours a 300blk or 5.56?
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 12/9/2023 5:33:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Mine is 5.56, that's why I believe it could be turned down lighter, there's plenty of steel in there. I just don't know anyone who can pull the barrel and then reinstall it after it's turned down. Maybe one day PSA will offer lighter barrels, or a shop will figure out how to pull one and offer the service.
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 12/9/2023 9:27:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roninsan: Mine is 5.56, that's why I believe it could be turned down lighter, there's plenty of steel in there. I just don't know anyone who can pull the barrel and then reinstall it after it's turned down. Maybe one day PSA will offer lighter barrels, or a shop will figure out how to pull one and offer the service. We did, look up to post no 8 in this thread. |
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 12/9/2023 9:53:29 PM EDT
[#40]
I remember you talking about it but didn't know you were offering that service. You had indicated it wasn't worth the expense, so I figured it wasn't something you were doing.
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 12/9/2023 11:25:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Can you post a pic or email it to me? See how heavy this barrel is, none of the ones on PSA's site show a heavy barrel.
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 12/10/2023 12:58:42 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm not a paying member (anymore) so I don't have any of those privileges...
|
|
|
OH, USA
|
Posted: 2/22/2024 12:01:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Team3star]
[#43]
I just received my 14.5 JAKL upper in today. I traditionally build AK's, and from that experience here is my two cents:
1) Turning down the barrel may help some with weight. However I wouldn't immediately jump to doing it. On a piston system it could make matters worse. I would do some research on other piston systems that use pencil profiles first. Maybe look at the Kel-Tec SU-16B since it uses a thinner barrel. Someone has probably logged some accuracy stats. 2) The majority of the weight out front is going to come from: The gas block (it's massive steel), the gas tube (which in this case appears to be fairly thick steel compared with an AK gas tube), the piston simply hanging out front (I saw the comment about the weight comparison, however the weight forward of the receiver will feel differently than the weight on the AR BCG contained in the receiver), and the barrel extension/front trunnion (which is also steel). The handguard adds little weight being aluminum. A 5.56/5.45 AK barrel only saves about 1oz per 1" of barrel removed. I measured the OD of my JAKL barrel below the muzzle device and it is .69" (keep in mind this is stepped down a bit before the muzzle). My AR pencil profiles barrel is .6" just before the muzzle (also stepped). For simplicity, let's pretend you remove .09" off the entire length of the barrel to bring the OD down to .6". In my case, that is a 14.5" barrel. That means you remove .09x14.5=1.305 total material removed. If an inch of AK barrel is roughly 1oz at (let's say) .69" OD, then you might remove around 2oz by turning the barrel down. All in all you would only be shaving a few ounces if you went through all the effort of turning down the barrel and possibly removing some handguard material. Bottom line: the bulk weight is not in the barrel or handguard. |
|
|
OH, USA
|
Posted: 2/22/2024 12:02:15 AM EDT
[#44]
My suggestion: at the risk of sounding like a quad rail fanatic, "lift bro." Seriously though, just deal with the weight. If you don't own or haven't shot an AK you should do that and compare the balance of the rifle to your AR. A bare bones AK and bare bones AR are not that different in weight, but where the weight is distributed changes how it feels and the same is true for the JAKL.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
