User Panel
[#1]
Given the problems some people have had and all the good alternatives, why bother? Seems like putting a known defective magazine back in your rotation and hoping its fixed itself.
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[#2]
None for me thanks
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[#3]
Originally Posted By WUPHF: A lot of what you said is flat out inaccurate. What’s the overhead liability for a motor oil manufacturer who skimps on R&D/engineering and causes a bunch of engine failures? Throw in that oil performance can have some effects from an emissions standpoint (meaning .gov is heavily involved). They spend billions on R&D and engineering, we even have one or two posters on here who work in the industry and have shared a lot of technical data as to what goes into the engineering of lubricants for internal combustion engines (amongst other items). As far as CLP spec and what DoD has spec’d, you get exactly what you think you’d get with any government procurement process. On top of that, DoD requirements are extremely wide arching insofar as weapons lubricant goes. They have a need for something that provides a basic level of corrosion resistance, especially in salt water environments (the “P” part). They also need detergents that do at least a semi decent job of dissolving or at least loosening carbon and other deposits (the “C” part). Lubrication is a a need, but DoD needs something that will work in a wide variety of conditions and environments (to include as wide a temperature range as possible). As for better performance in colder conditions, that means you’ll be using an oil that is quite bit thinner than other lubes, which translates to the oil running off/being blown off of internal components more quickly, meaning you’ll need to add more lubricant to the weapon on a more frequent basis. Anecdotally, I have personally experienced this issue using other lubricants side by side with both old and modern CLP. The problem was amplified after adding a suppressor and increasing the firing schedule. Basically, CLP is a “best guess” at a “one size fits all” solution, primarily to minimize issues with procurement and logistics (amongst some other things). It’s designed to meet the needs of someone who requires a capability to keep weapons reliably running in almost all conditions, regardless of how extreme. It’s also designed to offer some basic levels of corrosion protection and cleaning ability, so DoD users don’t need a HAZMAT locker full of different products to keep their weapons protected, clean, lubricated and running. None of these things is going to be a concern for the vast majority of civilian firearm owners, and as is the case with most “jack of all trades” solutions, you’re not getting the best performance possible in any one category. DoD knows this, as do a lot of others, so I’m not sure why you're trying to sell it as the best option available in any category. It flat out is not. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By WUPHF: Originally Posted By TheQuadfather: Originally Posted By WUPHF: Originally Posted By TheQuadfather: Originally Posted By DVCER: Man I used their degreaser. I really wanted it to work. Degreased, applied FL. Heated and Wiped down. Nothing like a click when I wanted a bang. That did take a couple years to get there. I switched to Mobil 1 and had great results, but a springer prodigy screwed all that up. No idea what was going on, but that damn slide would almost go in slow motion. Mucked out the Mobil 1, used CLP and it runs like a scalded ass ape. I’ll continue to use Mobil 1 on everything but that damn prodigy. Glad FL is working for you. Allegedly it has the most corrosion resistance out there. Mil-Spec CLP is actually a super good gun lube, probably the best on the market but is mostly overlooked for some reason. Engine oil gets sluggish pretty quickly and it doesn’t lubricate as well as CLP. If motor oil is getting sluggish on you, you’re using something that is way too heavy for your environmental conditions. “Mil-spec CLP” is a fairly lightweight oil that runs/blows off of reciprocating parts fairly quickly especially with higher round counts with lots of heat. Anecdotally, “mil-spec CLP” whether that be the current Radcolube, or other similar products, requires re-oiling a lot more often than other lubes (both dedicated gun lubes as well as others, like motor oil), especially in high volume suppressed applications. This shouldn’t be a surprise, as motor oils are designed and developed with a lot more extreme environments in mind. This is with applications that are exponentially more critical and a lot more expensive to repair if the lube isn’t doing its job. Billions of dollars are poured into automotive lubrication R&D/engineering. If you think the “firearm lube” industry is anywhere close to that, you need to share some of what you’re smoking. The firearm lube industry didn’t spec or test CLP. The US government did and they didn’t start over again with the -F spec to save money. Most of the billions spent by the motor oil companies is on bullshit marketing. And the government has tested synthetic engine oil as a small arms lube. It’s outclassed in every way by CLP. A lot of what you said is flat out inaccurate. What’s the overhead liability for a motor oil manufacturer who skimps on R&D/engineering and causes a bunch of engine failures? Throw in that oil performance can have some effects from an emissions standpoint (meaning .gov is heavily involved). They spend billions on R&D and engineering, we even have one or two posters on here who work in the industry and have shared a lot of technical data as to what goes into the engineering of lubricants for internal combustion engines (amongst other items). As far as CLP spec and what DoD has spec’d, you get exactly what you think you’d get with any government procurement process. On top of that, DoD requirements are extremely wide arching insofar as weapons lubricant goes. They have a need for something that provides a basic level of corrosion resistance, especially in salt water environments (the “P” part). They also need detergents that do at least a semi decent job of dissolving or at least loosening carbon and other deposits (the “C” part). Lubrication is a a need, but DoD needs something that will work in a wide variety of conditions and environments (to include as wide a temperature range as possible). As for better performance in colder conditions, that means you’ll be using an oil that is quite bit thinner than other lubes, which translates to the oil running off/being blown off of internal components more quickly, meaning you’ll need to add more lubricant to the weapon on a more frequent basis. Anecdotally, I have personally experienced this issue using other lubricants side by side with both old and modern CLP. The problem was amplified after adding a suppressor and increasing the firing schedule. Basically, CLP is a “best guess” at a “one size fits all” solution, primarily to minimize issues with procurement and logistics (amongst some other things). It’s designed to meet the needs of someone who requires a capability to keep weapons reliably running in almost all conditions, regardless of how extreme. It’s also designed to offer some basic levels of corrosion protection and cleaning ability, so DoD users don’t need a HAZMAT locker full of different products to keep their weapons protected, clean, lubricated and running. None of these things is going to be a concern for the vast majority of civilian firearm owners, and as is the case with most “jack of all trades” solutions, you’re not getting the best performance possible in any one category. DoD knows this, as do a lot of others, so I’m not sure why you're trying to sell it as the best option available in any category. It flat out is not. So basically CLP does do all of those things you said it does, and it does it with better 4-ball wear numbers than Mobil-1. You make a good case for CLP. |
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[#4]
I worked in the petroleum industry my entire life.
Show me the 4 ball wear numbers for CLP. Best 4 ball wear numbers almost always contained ZDDP in fairly large amounts. In that case, use a diesel engine rated oil. RCA |
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[#5]
Originally Posted By kingoftheriver: I worked in the petroleum industry my entire life. Show me the 4 ball wear numbers for CLP. Best 4 ball wear numbers almost always contained ZDDP in fairly large amounts. In that case, use a diesel engine rated oil. RCA View Quote It’s in the test report from the 63460-F revision. |
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[Last Edit: SilasB]
[#6]
You do you, but I don't miss it at all. Some of the more entertaining service/cleaning jobs we've had involved that product. It's really fun when a large amount of it has petrified.
* Yes, because end users didn't follow the directions, but that's not a great selling point. |
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Your self destruction doesn't hurt them.
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[#7]
Can anyone tell me real quick how I get this off of my weapon? I did one of my A.R. 15‘s with it it now I just want to go with standard cleaning and lubrication products. Would a wipe down with alcohol help? what should I do?
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[#8]
I can find where the military solicited info for LSA in 1987 that included the 4 ball test, but cannot find results for a 4 ball test for CLP
file:///C:/Users/Owner/Desktop/MIL-L-46000C.pdf The only thing close I could find was Fuchs Renolin CLP, which is an industrial gear oil, not a gun oil. https://www.fuchs.com/us/en/product/product/122282-renolin-clp-series/ Anyway, the 4 ball test measures the wear of 1 steel ball stacked on 3 others and turned with a weight against the others. Does not really provide good anti wear characteristics of any oil unless you are talking about gear oils. RCA |
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[#9]
BTW, I remember an engineer from Shell at a lube seminar telling how a certain liquid soap or shampoo, I don't remember which or the brand name, had a remarkably good rating on the 4 ball test.
But I wouldn't recommend using it as a lubricant. RCA |
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[#10]
At a previous security job the company bought new rifles and went with Frog lube because it had a better MSDS than CLP. Did all the prep as specified by the product.
A few weeks, maybe two months, later we had to suddenly rotate all the rifles through the armory and relube with CLP when one rifle failed a random test fire because the firing pin was immobilized by hardened Frog lube. It just seems too finicky for firearms. |
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[#11]
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[#12]
I’ve used Froglube for years, have not experienced any issues. Mostly froglube liquid though, I see you’re talking about paste.
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[Last Edit: gman556]
[#13]
I like experimenting and messing around with stuff so 2 1/2 years ago I took one of my new never fired AR's and a piece of crap RIA 1911 10mm that I don't like and used the paste with heat then completely and thoroughly wiped everything down. (I did not do this in the trigger groups or the firing pin channels).
Then I exclusively used frog lube extreme not the CLP but the extreme and have had no problems in weather down to 22 degrees with the AR going on 2 1/2 years now. The 1911 has just sat in the safe for those two and a half years and the FL extreme is still runny on the barrel tip and not gumming up at all though 90% of it has dried up just like any other clp does. I'm no scientist here but it looks to me that he took the CLP and added quite a bit more of his solvent to it to come up with the “extreme” lube. If I let a bottle of it sit in my cabinet for a week or so I can actually see it separate. Another thing that I noticed is after a range session with the AR in the upper receiver where the charging handle rides it looks like little beads of water which tells me that's the solvent. To my simpleton non scientific mind this solvent just looks like water with some kind of soap in it. I'm pretty much done with this little experiment and going to go back to my regular lube for these two guns because I also noticed that with this method there is definitely a little bit more ware on the parts than with other lubes that I have tried in the past. I will say though that the extreme can also be used as a clp and It does break up carbon and clean better than any other solvent I have ever used. |
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Liberal men are pissing their panties like little girls over guns all the time, like wusses, it's really pathetic that grown men can't act like....well, men.
m14brian |
[#14]
Originally Posted By FALARAK: Yep. Most snake oil is stupid. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By FALARAK: Originally Posted By Derek45: just get a quart of MOBIL1 5w30 motor oil frog lube is a gimmick Yep. Most snake oil is stupid. I use 0w20 full synthetic, much better and cheaperer |
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PROUD AMMOSEXUAL
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[#15]
I too have run Froglube. I have found out with YEARS of using it that the only type of Froglube that will actually perform for me all around is the extreme version and that is if you use the degreaser with it for cleaning. YMMV
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[#16]
Isn’t froglube the stuff a member here performed spectroscopy tests on and discovered that it’s just fucking canola oil with additives? I imagine the BS to heat the treated parts is just to polymerize it like seasoning a pan.
A friend of mine is a cop and swears by the stuff but he doesn’t shoot much. i worry one day he’ll have to pull and get a muted click instead of a bang. |
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[#17]
Originally Posted By DvlDog: Isn’t froglube the stuff a member here performed spectroscopy tests on and discovered that it’s just fucking canola oil with additives? I imagine the BS to heat the treated parts is just to polymerize it like seasoning a pan. A friend of mine is a cop and swears by the stuff but he doesn’t shoot much. i worry one day he’ll have to pull and get a muted click instead of a bang. View Quote If he's using the paste and didn't get it all off after heating/melting it, and if some of it got into his striker channel or FCG this will most likely happen. If you really feel you want to use that shit you must take great care in not letting it melt into anywhere you don't want it to or you will be screwed one day. Ask me how I know this. When I experimented with Frog Lube the second time around I only put the paste on the sliding, frictional surfaces of the firearms that I experimented with and did not put it all over the whole gun and then wipe it down like they tell you to because that is a really bad fucking idea in my opinion and will lead to malfunctions in most cases but, that is not an opinion but a known fact if you research this lube, especially the paste if you fail to get every little bit of it off. Their CLP is the exact same thing but liquid, and the same thing will happen with it but even worse because they market it as a CLP. Like I and Regularguy said the extreme is the only one that will not do this. Last time I was on their sight all I could see was the paste, and the extreme, but no more CLP. Gee I wonder why? |
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Liberal men are pissing their panties like little girls over guns all the time, like wusses, it's really pathetic that grown men can't act like....well, men.
m14brian |
[#18]
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This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo CO, MI, SC, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders |
[#19]
Originally Posted By Gunowner99: Can anyone tell me real quick how I get this off of my weapon? I did one of my A.R. 15‘s with it it now I just want to go with standard cleaning and lubrication products. Would a wipe down with alcohol help? what should I do? View Quote Dawn and a bucket, alcohol for an after-rinse or for anything you don't want to dunk. |
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This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo CO, MI, SC, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders |
[#20]
Originally Posted By Gunowner99: Can anyone tell me real quick how I get this off of my weapon? I did one of my A.R. 15‘s with it it now I just want to go with standard cleaning and lubrication products. Would a wipe down with alcohol help? what should I do? View Quote You can just start using the CLP products you intend to use. You can use some degreaser but it's not going to really do anything. I'm still using Froglube from the time I posted this last year. It hasn't locked up on me and has been working great. I really believe a lot of folks don't use the degreaser and that is the source of the lock up problems because I had the same exact locking up/gumming problems before and that made me stop using it. I also find the security company story a big fishy because with all due respect, I wouldn't find someone working at a security firm as trustable source of opinion no matter what they do there. I actually got asked at the range about 2 weeks back about how I keep my BCG so wet. The guy showed me his rifle and it was bone dry but he said he put on Ballistol. I told him I use Froglube but I said I don't think he should use it because of the gumming up story. I recommended automotive grease mobil1 to use on the rails along with continuing to use Ballistol as a CLP product. He was surprised by how wet it was after I shot my session. |
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[#21]
No plant based lubes for me. The oxidation risk (aka gummy mess) on plant based lubes is too high.
Just about any petroleum based lube will be vastly better IMO. The School of the American Rifle guy on YouTube has a video about lube he makes. Basically red automotive grease mixed with mobile one to the consistency of your choosing. Seems to work very well and stay put. Home Brew AR Lube & AR Lubrication |
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[Last Edit: dalle0001]
[#22]
I'm now going nearly 1 year and 8 months going back to frog lube. It has been working wonderfully. I truly believe the thing I was missing last time was using their solvent. Never any gumming or anything has happened and never had that seized up gun problem like I did before. I leave a little on the rails of my bcg and it's great to see at the range the bcg being soaking wet and very easy to clean up.
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[#23]
I had about an 18 month marriage to that stuff. It smelled nice was it’s most redeeming quality.
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"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him."
G. K. Chesterton |
[Last Edit: Mach]
[#24]
Don’t use it on anything you may need to defend yourself with,
Other than that have fun cleaning that glue off you other guns. ETA. Old thread I already responded too. |
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Mach
Nobody is coming to save us. . |
[#25]
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[Last Edit: dalle0001]
[#26]
So after using it for 3+ years, I'm finally moving on from Froglube. I had a 1 gallon pack from about that time of my initial post and have since used it all. Had 0 problems with it all this time. Not sure if they upgraded the formula or what, but compared to when I used it in 2011-12, it seems like the solvent is the key to keeping it from gumming.
Now I'm trying a different route for cleaning: 1) Use boretech eliminator on the bore and in carbon areas such as the rails of pistols or inside the bcg. It has worked very well with a polymer pick that I can rotate and spin inside the bcg. 2) Dawn dish soap mixed with hot water. After giving the parts a good soaking with boretech, I scrub it with dawn dish soap. I then rinse it in hot water and dry it with a air can or hair dryer. 3) Lucas red n tacky grease on the rails and friction points. So far so good. The red n tacky is very good grease and I have a huge tub still left from the garage. I bought the red n tacky about 10 years ago and it seems to work very well still. |
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[#27]
I use GL-2 grease on ARs and Glocks and every other gun I own.
Oil is used in machinery with closed lubrication systems. ie engines. Grease is used in machinery with open lubrication systems unless there is an oil spray system. ie bearings, gears, Guess which type of lubrication system a firearm is? Frog Lube is garbage, absorbs moisture, and gums up with time forming an adhesive. I had 2 ARs, a Glock and a 1911 become gummed and un-useable with Frog lube. It also doesn't get absorbed by metal, the entire thing is a lie. If you know so little about materials that you think frog lube can get into the 'pores of the metal" then by all means use frog lube. You deserve what you get. |
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Mach
Nobody is coming to save us. . |
[#28]
Originally Posted By dalle0001: So after using it for 3+ years, I'm finally moving on from Froglube. I had a 1 gallon pack from about that time of my initial post and have since used it all. Had 0 problems with it all this time. Not sure if they upgraded the formula or what, but compared to when I used it in 2011-12, it seems like the solvent is the key to keeping it from gumming. Now I'm trying a different route for cleaning: 1) Use boretech eliminator on the bore and in carbon areas such as the rails of pistols or inside the bcg. It has worked very well with a polymer pick that I can rotate and spin inside the bcg. 2) Dawn dish soap mixed with hot water. After giving the parts a good soaking with boretech, I scrub it with dawn dish soap. I then rinse it in hot water and dry it with a air can or hair dryer. 3) Lucas red n tacky grease on the rails and friction points. So far so good. The red n tacky is very good grease and I have a huge tub still left from the garage. I bought the red n tacky about 10 years ago and it seems to work very well still. View Quote The Red and Tacky grease is a GL-2 grease. That is what I use. A tub will last a lifetime and it works without having to think about it or take special care. Guns are open lubrication tools. |
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Mach
Nobody is coming to save us. . |
[#29]
I never gave that surfboard wax a first chance.
SFL-0 if you're wanting grease. |
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Platinum status courtesy of Rudukai13, thanks brother! Buaidh No Bas!
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[#30]
Originally Posted By DVCER: Never again. I kept my FL around for stuff like door hinges, but finally threw it out. Nothing like a gummy action on a carry pistol to cure me. View Quote Agreed. Failed To Load Title |
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Did I just kill another thread?
We are in the middle of a Communist Revolution in the USA. There is no voting our way out of this. |
[#31]
I used frog lube on an AR15 prior to a rifle match where the high temperature during the day was 22 degrees Fahrenheit. The rifle ran great.
However, I applied the Frog lube as I understood the manufacturer's recommendations. Heat up the metal parts to which the frog lube would be applied. Generously apply frog lube then rub the liquified frog lube into the heated up parts, then wipe off all the excess frog lube before reassembling. It felt like the rifle was more slick and free moving than before, and like previously mentioned, the rifle ran great, but there was no frog lube residue left on the parts as it was all wiped off after the parts cooled off. |
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[#32]
Originally Posted By Mach: The Red and Tacky grease is a GL-2 grease. That is what I use. A tub will last a lifetime and it works without having to think about it or take special care. Guns are open lubrication tools. View Quote Thanks. I did try it yesterday with shooting the rifle. I will also use breakfree clp which seems to be something I'm always going back to for some reason. |
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[#33]
This has to be a troll thread.
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Distinguished
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[#34]
Just to add more shit to this shit show
Bought a pistol (traditional Sig) from EE here about 10 years ago, maybe a little longer. Owner said he didn’t shoot it much, lubed it with FL and would send the remainder (small tube of liquid) with the gun. At that time I had never used or seen FL, other then folks online swearing by it. Received pistol which was in perfect shape, but was a mofo to manipulate. This was probably #20 if not #30 traditional Sig’s that I owned and was surprised and initially concerned I got a dud. After a thorough cleaning and lube with clp everything was GTG. Maybe I got a bad batch, but with a gun lube, why would there be such a thing. Threw out the tube and have never looked at it again. |
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[#35]
Never again
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[#36]
Originally Posted By Michaelrm: Just to add more shit to this shit show Bought a pistol (traditional Sig) from EE here about 10 years ago, maybe a little longer. Owner said he didn’t shoot it much, lubed it with FL and would send the remainder (small tube of liquid) with the gun. At that time I had never used or seen FL, other then folks online swearing by it. Received pistol which was in perfect shape, but was a mofo to manipulate. This was probably #20 if not #30 traditional Sig’s that I owned and was surprised and initially concerned I got a dud. After a thorough cleaning and lube with clp everything was GTG. Maybe I got a bad batch, but with a gun lube, why would there be such a thing. Threw out the tube and have never looked at it again. View Quote Yeah to be honest I called Froglube about 2012 to ask about the gumming of it in storage. I had a couple of rifles that I remember I had to mortar to get open. They basically told me I suck at lubing and didn't really offered much help or explanation. Fast forward to 2018, it seems like Froglube is slight bit more open to their gumming concerns and now recommend their solvent along with the froglube. not sure if they changed their formula or if the solvent is really the trick but I never had a gumming issue again with it. |
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[#37]
People really use this stuff
Rca |
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[#38]
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New EE sucks! Bring back the old Equipment Exchange!
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[#39]
I tried FrogLube when it was all the rage years ago.
Mobil One works good, but if the rifle sits too long it seems to run off the BCG just need to re-apply. Lucas heavy duty gun oil seems to stay on the bolt longer, I’ve been pretty happy with it. |
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