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Posted: 4/28/2024 3:35:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
This will be a several part thread a bit data and image heavy, and long. And for many, this very topic is an abomination. Which is great - purists keep everyone more honest. For others, this may be useful for the non-serious/casual/budget limited.
This is for the purposes of casual home usage for me. For the world I live in and the service and life I live, I'm not inclined to spend the premium for the premium name brand lights. That and I have enough firearms that I want multiple units; and spending 4- figures for an array of appropriate dedicated light/laser systems is just not appealing. Also, FWIW, nobody pays me shit, and never have - I'm just an engineer, and a frugal one who optimizes. I'm here posting this because professionally I learned a long time ago: "writing the report forces you to actually study and analyze your data, and form more sound conclusions". So mostly I'm using you and this venue to write the report, to better process the data and observations I've collected so far. I probably should put this on youtube, there are probaby dozens of such video's in fact - but I'm just not a youtuber. This is NOT a hard-core or professional level review. If you are looking for serious Duty Service items, that's on you - these are cheap Chinese made lights sold on Amazon for under $100. They're sold for closer to $30 in fact. This is a casual review and most of the images you will see are literally on a family members front porch with beers and saying (with dismounted units), "I wonder comparatively how these look against each other". One item of note and a calibrator for the scoffers to pause at - is it's well understood that historically cheap Amazon lights have been crap, and cheap Amazon lasers, even worse - to the point it was a certain fail to actually run one for anything. Where "historically" is as recent as early 2020's even. But in the last year, things have changed. Or I'll say, in the last year, I finally noticed that things have changed. Here's why and how: Here are what I see as the biggest change items in the cheap Amazon (et al) options: -Elimination of the removable batteries. This is a big deal because that tends to be one of the biggest problem areas, and the cheaper the rig, the worse that got. First, the batteries tend to be semi-exotic, and if running cheap-laser/light - you're going to run cheap-amazon batteries as the only option to not wrecking the whole economic point. And those cheap Amazon batteries suck Suck SUCK . that hasn't changed - if you see a pack of your semi-exotic batteries on Amazon for cheap - they WILL be shit, and WILL all be dead within under a year, just sitting in the packaging. They'll likely also leak. Further, the housing and systems for the removable batteries involve imperfect contact points, and take up space for walls, springs etc. Switching to on-board integrated and USB recharged batteries eliminates a lot of that, allows for custom-battery shapes to fill the housing better, and gives more reliable connectivity, mitigating bump and impact failures (we'll do a half-assed demonstration of that below). It also hosts the latest battery power technology to go into them, which are pretty good. Result is a higher voltage and wattage battery with more charge in a smaller and lighter package, and a rig's power system that can take abuse better since now hardwired. -Integration of the light and laser. In particular, much smaller light fixtures for still quite high lumens allowing for an integrated laser, at the same time. Not sure if there's been a tech improvement in LED bulbs recently or what, but it feels like they all of a sudden got a lot smaller. -Plastic housings. Yes, plastic housings. This makes for a notably lighter package. Again, is this "duty rated"? No. But plastics 2024 are not plastics 1994 either - ask MagPul etc what they think of plastic construction. How well does the plastic hold? While obviously not a definitive test, I'll post a video where we beat and smack around one on a pistol, and then zero check (it held up fine). One item of note kind of hinted at via the above - the appeal of the Amazon units is only partially cost savings (which indeed is a big appeal of course). Where they really appeal to me, is the size. they are small, light and tiny. Combined with the cheap cost, I can purchase a handful and mount&forget these things - which I do now. As to duty and and service grade, I guess we'll see; because based on our tests and user experience improvements - a family member just pulled off his all metal heavy duty grade laser off of his pistol, and put one of these units on, for the appeal of the light plus laser in a lighter and smaller package, that hold up to our usage and abusage tests. The real test will be time, as his unit bounces around over the years. Will it still keep working? Will it still hold zero? Will the usage requirement of periodic USB recharging be problematic? For reference, in my few tests, the light is only good at full power for about an hour, laser good for about 6 or so hours. We will see, but that was his decision. Not saying it should be yours. Next posts will be based on on casual porch shining's done on a neighbors house at night. This is NOT a high quality scientific comparison, but it's a comparison. Then a post showing abuse and performance testing. |
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[#2]
Bookmarking this one. Great work L E
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[Last Edit: BillofRights]
[#3]
Great topic. I got a couple to try out. Pretty impressed with what you can get for ~ $20. The lights on mine are small, but sufficient. The lasers clean and were right on point of aim at 40’. The On buttons are robust, well located and intuitive.
Won’t be carrying them, but I’ll put one in a hot car and the freezer as a test. |
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GD- "It's kind of like wading through through slimy lake bed with your feet to find clams below the surface".
- gtfoxy |
[#8]
Originally Posted By panthermark: Good thread. I was wondering when you would make this as you have mentioned that particular laser light combo a few times now. No need to convince me of course, I picked up a cheap Amazon laser a couple years ago (actually, almost exactly 2 years ago, April 14th of 2022) for $29 (it is down to $18 now) and it was one of the best purchases I ever made. I lives on my .22LR. And yes, you are correct, a KEY feature is it being rechargeable. I love that part. https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/713POc8wn5L._AC_SL1500_.jpg https://i.imgur.com/U6QcR7l.jpg Because I have a couple of Streamlight TLR-RM2's with green lasers on 300blks at 12:00, I also added this cheap QD riser to help mimic the height difference my .22 set-up. These also makes it easy to quickly remove the entire laser if I want to. https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71fbg4kQ4WL._AC_SL1500_.jpg I'm interested in seeing what else is out there for dirt cheap. View Quote Good reply and I prefer those quick release levers, but in my case I need the offset mount for the light/laser to keep it out of the way of the main optic,, which is why I'm playing around with those cheap offset rigs. I'll post weights later when able. |
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[#9]
Good post, OP.
There's been some discussion about similar IR/IR laser illuminators from a brand called "Toughsoul" (Amazon-sold, from the OEM "Defendtec / MSH Electronic"). Monstrum and a couple other brands probably made by the same OEM.) It's interesting that what would have only been poor copies of "real" illuminators are taking some different form-factors and actually making some interesting directions in mounting and ergonomics. See: This link for some Amazon IR/Laser wunders |
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[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#10]
I weighed them yesterday. Just to keep it simple, here are the Amazon links (these guys totally should be paying my ass). As a reminder, all of the units are plastic, which keeps the weight down, but some folks aren't going to like plastic. I don't mind - but you might.
All of these are under $30. Which frankly just blows my mindt. Be aware, there is no remote-switch option for any of these. 350LM unit is 1.4oz
450LM unit 1.6oz (sometimes they call it 500 LM, same unit; it's Chinesium, so when in doubt, assume the lesser)
(FWIW, this is the one I settled on for my general purpose needs mostly) and the biggest:
And for rifle usage (my main usage), I tend to prefer offset mount. If I can explain: When the light itself is directly mounted on the top they can interfere with main optics systems usage (which is why I do sometimes like the 350 LM unit, as it's the smallest and won't interfere with a 2.5X sight, typically, but that's the lowest quality one here too). If I mount on the bottom then they bump into field rests etc. Mount on the side is OK, but I typically don't have side-rails on most of my guns, and the can also bump into V-notch monopod/tripods. My nightmare scenario is for it to bump the V-notch while night-hunting with a Thermal, and bumping the light engagement button on! So, I like mounting on an off-set mount attached to the top rail on a quick-release system, and this lets me avoid adding side-rails. Which is something like this I got a 6-pack of these for $9 with a coupon code. They're OK - I just wish the Quick Release system was a lever or wing-nut, rather than a round knob. We'll see how they work out. I'd be OK if they were plastic even, but they are aluminum. Gogoku 6-Pack 45 Degree Rail Mount 4 Slots Fits 20mm Rail for Flashlights Laser Red Dot Sight Optics
and weigh 1.2 oz each make the above three systems when combined with this have a total effective weight (in order) of "350LM" 2.6oz 450LM 2.8oz All of which is still quite light. For comparison, a $300 1000-lumen SureFire weighs 4 oz (without an offset mount, which would make it 5.2 oz). And is a notably larger item, with no laser. For me, my budget, and my interests, I'm happy with the $25 450LM unit. If you are Going Into Harm's Way - I suggest testing it pretty hard first, I can't comment on that beyond the simple tests done here. For my guns, I'm actually willing to rely on them, for my own domestic world. |
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