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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:09:33 PM EDT
With the ARs that have a Cerakote finish done by the factory, how well does the finish hold up over time?
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:15:48 PM EDT
[#1]
My experience is a sample size of one. It's certainly not anodizing. It does fine, but if it's going to get banged around, you'll probably notice. Doesn't bother me any. I have scars as does my truck and Harley. Life happens. It's not like the stuff just peels off. If it gets some marks, it earned it.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:20:19 PM EDT
[#2]
It all depends how they apply it. I’ve seen some that were crap and some that seemed almost invincible. Cerakote is bomb proof if you play by their rules, and expensive spray paint if you don’t.
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Posted: 3/21/2024 11:49:56 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: It all depends how they apply it. I’ve seen some that were crap and some that seemed almost invincible. Cerakote is bomb proof if you play by their rules, and expensive spray paint if you don’t. Applied by good AR manufacturers like FN, Spike's Tactical, and possibly Aero Precision. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:04:07 AM EDT
[#4]
If you use your gun you’ll get chips, scratches etc. I wish more companies did colored anodizing.
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Posted: 3/22/2024 1:26:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peacematu: Applied by good AR manufacturers like FN, Spike's Tactical, and possibly Aero Precision. The FDE coated Aero upper I had was kind of shit. If you get one of their special run receiver sets those are contracted out to professionals and should be good to go. Haven’t owned the others. |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 9:23:03 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: The FDE coated Aero upper I had was kind of shit. If you get one of their special run receiver sets those are contracted out to professionals and should be good to go. Haven’t owned the others. Worth adding - mine was Aero in FDE also |
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Posted: 3/22/2024 9:39:03 AM EDT
[#7]
FDE on my DD has held extremely well.
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Posted: 3/22/2024 9:51:13 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peacematu: Applied by good AR manufacturers like FN, Spike's Tactical, and possibly Aero Precision. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peacematu: Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: It all depends how they apply it. I’ve seen some that were crap and some that seemed almost invincible. Cerakote is bomb proof if you play by their rules, and expensive spray paint if you don’t. Applied by good AR manufacturers like FN, Spike's Tactical, and possibly Aero Precision. In my experience with good factory cerakote, pretty much bombproof. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 9:54:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stowe: It's certainly not anodizing. FPNI cerakote is fine but I wouldn't seek it out for its own sake |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:14:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Just10mm]
[#10]
Aero precision cerakote is garbage. Then again their anodizing isn’t to great either.
Profesional applicators “can” do much better. Anodizing is superior in every way from companies that are not AP. IMO |
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USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:44:02 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Just10mm: Aero precision cerakote is garbage. Then again their anodizing isn’t to great either. Profesional applicators “can” do much better. Anodizing is superior in every way from companies that are not AP. IMO Came to say exactly this. I have an Aero receiver set in FDE cerakote and it scratches if I look at it the wrong way. Not good. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 12:51:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Millennial]
[#12]
depends if they did it right... applied over unsealed hardcoat anodize so it can penetrate the open pores of the anodizing. Basically, instead of coloring the anodic coating with dye and sealing it in you're duracoating it the open-pored anodic coating. That shit never comes off... you gotta remove material by bead blasting it out.
Regular plain duracote or whatever over regular black stand alone hardcoat (dyed & sealed or milspec) is OK. The coating will eventually rub/wear off like it would on steel or most substrates. I called AP once and asked how they do it, and they just cerakote the raw aluminum (unanodized)  Uggh that's the worst. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 3:40:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Rubles]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Millennial: depends if they did it right... applied over unsealed hardcoat anodize so it can penetrate the open pores of the anodizing. Basically, instead of coloring the anodic coating with dye and sealing it in you're duracoating it the open-pored anodic coating. That shit never comes off... you gotta remove material by bead blasting it out. Regular plain duracote or whatever over regular black stand alone hardcoat (dyed & sealed or milspec) is OK. The coating will eventually rub/wear off like it would on steel or most substrates. I called AP once and asked how they do it, and they just cerakote the raw aluminum (unanodized) Uggh that's the worst. Glad to know they charge a premium for the cerakote when they're cutting corners  Explains why the scratches in my FDE receivers are silver. What, if anything, will the lack of anodizing do to negatively affect the longevity of the recievers? I know that Ano is a conversion process that "seals" the grain of the forging, but is not having the ano going to accelerate wear when the poor cerakote application wears off? Chime in materials/ finish engineers. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/22/2024 9:36:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rubles: Glad to know they charge a premium for the cerakote when they're cutting corners Explains why the scratches in my FDE receivers are silver. What, if anything, will the lack of anodizing do to negatively affect the longevity of the recievers? I know that Ano is a conversion process that "seals" the grain of the forging, but is not having the ano going to accelerate wear when the poor cerakote application wears off? Chime in materials/ finish engineers. Hardcoat increases the corrosion resistance and wear properties. It's much harder than bare aluminum (which is pretty soft) and hardcoat is usually .001-.003" thick and chemically fused to the aluminum substrate (half the oxide layer thickness grows into the aluminum surface and half the thickness grows outward from the original surface). Lack of anodizing with cerakote probably won't affect longevity in a practical sense unless you're operating in wet/salty environments where corrosion will be very bad where the cerakote wears through. It's just not good practice to apply paint coatings to untreated aluminum due to flaking/adhesion- we always specify type 1 or unsealed type 2/3 as a base for applied coatings. Usually type 1 chem-film due to ease/cost. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 9:49:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: peacematu]
[#15]
@Millennial
Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 9:54:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VeritatisUnus: If you use your gun you’ll get chips, scratches etc. I wish more companies did colored anodizing. It would probably be worth it. They would get more for their ARs with colored anodizing. |
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Posted: 3/23/2024 10:08:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Millennial: depends if they did it right... applied over unsealed hardcoat anodize so it can penetrate the open pores of the anodizing. Basically, instead of coloring the anodic coating with dye and sealing it in you're duracoating it the open-pored anodic coating. That shit never comes off... you gotta remove material by bead blasting it out. Regular plain duracote or whatever over regular black stand alone hardcoat (dyed & sealed or milspec) is OK. The coating will eventually rub/wear off like it would on steel or most substrates. I called AP once and asked how they do it, and they just cerakote the raw aluminum (unanodized) Uggh that's the worst. I guess in the first case is applying the coating before sealing with hardcoat. Or maybe the Cerakote or Duracoat is sealing it when applying it over unsealed hardcoat anodise? Maybe if coating it yourself over hardcoat, something like Duracoat, KG Gunkote, or Brownells coating is better than Cerakote as I heard Cerakote is more involved. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 10:22:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#18]
The proper way to do Cerakote over anodized aluminum and the way Cerakote recommends is to blast the part at low pressure to etch the anodized surface without removing it. Cerakote specifically states that adhesion is better doing it this way.
Some applicators will just crank the air pressure up and blast the part down to bare aluminum because frankly, it’s easier and there’s less care/attention to detail involved. There’s also varying levels of anodizing quality and when not done well, it’s very easy to blast through the finish even at low pressure. Leaving a splotchy surface can lead to color variations in the finished product, so it’s better at that point (from a cosmetics perspective) to just take the entire part down to bare aluminum. To the OPs question, Cerakote is not anodizing and you shouldn’t expect it to be as durable. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:17:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jnat]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: The proper way to do Cerakote over anodized aluminum and the way Cerakote recommends is to blast the part at low pressure to etch the anodized surface without removing it. Cerakote specifically states that adhesion is better doing it this way. Some applicators will just crank the air pressure up and blast the part down to bare aluminum because frankly, it’s easier and there’s less care/attention to detail involved. There’s also varying levels of anodizing quality and when not done well, it’s very easy to blast through the finish even at low pressure. Leaving a splotchy surface can lead to color variations in the finished product, so it’s better at that point (from a cosmetics perspective) to just take the entire part down to bare aluminum. To the OPs question, Cerakote is not anodizing and you shouldn’t expect it to be as durable. I have seen this first hand. Yea, the finish looks great but I had a stripped set that prior to coating held together with no pins, after coating, they wouldn’t. Trigger/hammer pins were also less snug. The insides weren’t smooth like they once were prior to coating, makes cleaning more of a PITA. Cerakote is very durable but impacts can knock it off. Still…….good Anodizing>Cerakote |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:20:57 AM EDT
[#20]
If you can find a brand that leaves anodizing as an under coat, it holds up ok. I mean it's going to wear, its paint.
I know BCM Anodizes under their Cerakote rails. Not sure about their other parts. I don't care for how Aero Precision just coats the raw aluminum imo. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:13:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Millennial: depends if they did it right... applied over unsealed hardcoat anodize so it can penetrate the open pores of the anodizing. Basically, instead of coloring the anodic coating with dye and sealing it in you're duracoating it the open-pored anodic coating. That shit never comes off... you gotta remove material by bead blasting it out. Regular plain duracote or whatever over regular black stand alone hardcoat (dyed & sealed or milspec) is OK. The coating will eventually rub/wear off like it would on steel or most substrates. I called AP once and asked how they do it, and they just cerakote the raw aluminum (unanodized) Uggh that's the worst. It would be better to creakote over UNSEALED anodizing. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:33:14 PM EDT
[#22]
It wears when you actually use your gear.
So what? That’s what it’s there for. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:36:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Spray paint over it all and you’ll forget what coating is on the metal.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 12:54:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-]
[#24]
I think it's important to quantify what we’re measuring as better. I have a Cerakote over anodized AR pistol with over 10k through it that's only worn down a little bit at the shell deflector, charging handle notch, and magwell.
Cerakote over properly roughed up anodizing is going to last a lot longer than just anodizing. Cerakote on raw aluminum is just an all around bad idea because it can’t fix the short comings of raw aluminum to begin with. Cerakote is fairly hard but when applied to a softer material, it can lose its bond from abrasions when the material it’s applied to deforms. This is also why it seems to hold up better on raw steel, unless you’re Colt making the rail guns and decided to do everything possible wrong. My only real critique of Cerakote (when done right) is darkening and staining. While it’s very corrosion resistant, all of my super high round count coated items have darkened considerably over time. They have held up VERY good though. I still much prefer anodized FDE and green, but that’s just a preference that not all the guns I buy offer. I used to spray paint everything but unless you’re using a paint with a solvent rating like Rapco or Alumahyde, the debinding that occurs when lubricants and solvents eat paint is crazy toxic. The lubricant greatly increases absorption too. Most will laugh it off but I saw a lot of guys go early in the autobody industry before skin absorption was even considered a concern. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:40:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Just10mm: Aero precision cerakote is garbage. Can confirm. Aero's Cerakote is pretty bad. Beyond the problem of how they apply it, they need to work on uniformity, or at least quality control. Have multiple uppers in which the gas tube wouldn't go into the receiver because it was obstructed by excess Cerakote and needed to be hogged out a bit. Also have a couple lowers where the mag catch would stick. I had to sand the inside top/bottom of the channel a bit, which of course leaves bare spots because it's infeasible to do perfectly in such a small space. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 4:27:16 PM EDT
[#26]
I Cerakote. It is not as tough as anodizing, but still a decent finish. Most large companies are not going to take the time as a small business owner will. You have to have weights, measurement, preparation, drying time all spot on. Just like a factory paint job for new vehicle will not be as perfect or nice as a paint job from a painter who is skilled.
Anodizing is a perfect fit for the AR platform, but I still like Carkote, especially on plastic where I think it adheres great. When I can’t paint for whatever reason, I outsource to Dead Lock Coatings. They are great and fast. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:24:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CouchCommando22: I Cerakote. It is not as tough as anodizing, but still a decent finish. Most large companies are not going to take the time as a small business owner will. You have to have weights, measurement, preparation, drying time all spot on. Just like a factory paint job for new vehicle will not be as perfect or nice as a paint job from a painter who is skilled. Anodizing is a perfect fit for the AR platform, but I still like Carkote, especially on plastic where I think it adheres great. When I can’t paint for whatever reason, I outsource to Dead Lock Coatings. They are great and fast. @CouchCommando22 Surprising information for me. I would have guessed a large company would do a better job than the small business owner due to knowledge and experience. The prices at Dead Lock Coatings are a bit higher than I would have guessed. The demand for it must be there otherwise they wouldn't be in business. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 8:07:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CouchCommando22]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peacematu: @CouchCommando22 Surprising information for me. I would have guessed a large company would do a better job than the small business owner due to knowledge and experience. The prices at Dead Lock Coatings are a bit higher than I would have guessed. The demand for it must be there otherwise they wouldn't be in business. When it comes to a skill or trade volume rarely equals quality. Would you rather have a cookie cutter house built by a company built as many houses as possible for as less money as possible or a quality costume home builder who treats each job with attention to detail and quality at the forefront. Large companies have larger unskilled workforces with higher turnover. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 6:56:22 AM EDT
[#29]
After talking to several companies that do contract Cerakote for OEMs, they blast off the anodizing anyway. You can't blast off the color and have clear anodizing left, that is just not happening. The worn Cerakote will ALWAYS be silver underneath. The Cerakote needs tooth to stick and won't stick if there is any anodizing. This anodizing then Cerakote being superior appears to be a gun forum internet myth. If anyone has any official corporate comments to the contrary, please post links.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:10:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevL: After talking to several companies that do contract Cerakote for OEMs, they blast off the anodizing anyway. You can't blast off the color and have clear anodizing left, that is just not happening. The worn Cerakote will ALWAYS be silver underneath. The Cerakote needs tooth to stick and won't stick if there is any anodizing. This anodizing then Cerakote being superior appears to be a gun forum internet myth. If anyone has any official corporate comments to the contrary, please post links. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevL: After talking to several companies that do contract Cerakote for OEMs, they blast off the anodizing anyway. You can't blast off the color and have clear anodizing left, that is just not happening. The worn Cerakote will ALWAYS be silver underneath. The Cerakote needs tooth to stick and won't stick if there is any anodizing. This anodizing then Cerakote being superior appears to be a gun forum internet myth. If anyone has any official corporate comments to the contrary, please post links. Cerakote’s training/application manual work for you? Bottom paragraph: Anodized parts will require sand blasting, however it is not necessary to completely remove the anodized finish. It is recommended to lightly etch blast at 30-40 PSI. Anodized parts that have been sufficiently blasted should have a dull, matte appearance.  Attached Filehttps://images.nicindustries.com/cerakote/documents/1273/cerakote-elite-h-series-training-manual-dt20220211175714830532.pdf? @DevL |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:02:38 AM EDT
[#31]
This thread has made me wish more manufacturers of ARs did more anodizing of at least a few different colors.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:09:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By peacematu: This thread has made me wish more manufacturers of ARs did more anodizing of at least a few different colors. Most don’t because it’s not easy to get color consistency/uniformity with anodizing that isn’t black. It’s why when you look at something like a DDC Geissele rifle, almost every part is going to be a different shade. The problem comes from people who want uniformity. They start complaining that their parts don’t match and it ends up being a burden on the manufacturer in one way or another. Complaints happen enough that Geissele has an entire page on their website dedicated to explaining the differences in color anodizing. Hell, Surefire stopped selling “FDE” lights to the civilian retail market for a number of years not too long ago due to all the complaints they’d get about colors not matching. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 3:07:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: Most don’t because it’s not easy to get color consistency/uniformity with anodizing that isn’t black. It’s why when you look at something like a DDC Geissele rifle, almost every part is going to be a different shade. The problem comes from people who want uniformity. They start complaining that their parts don’t match and it ends up being a burden on the manufacturer in one way or another. Complaints happen enough that Geissele has an entire page on their website dedicated to explaining the differences in color anodizing. Hell, Surefire stopped selling “FDE” lights to the civilian retail market for a number of years not too long ago due to all the complaints they’d get about colors not matching. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: Originally Posted By peacematu: This thread has made me wish more manufacturers of ARs did more anodizing of at least a few different colors. Most don’t because it’s not easy to get color consistency/uniformity with anodizing that isn’t black. It’s why when you look at something like a DDC Geissele rifle, almost every part is going to be a different shade. The problem comes from people who want uniformity. They start complaining that their parts don’t match and it ends up being a burden on the manufacturer in one way or another. Complaints happen enough that Geissele has an entire page on their website dedicated to explaining the differences in color anodizing. Hell, Surefire stopped selling “FDE” lights to the civilian retail market for a number of years not too long ago due to all the complaints they’d get about colors not matching. I didn't know that about color consistency/uniformity in anodizing. Now it makes sense why more manufacturers don't do it. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 7:02:26 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: Most don't because it's not easy to get color consistency/uniformity with anodizing that isn't black. It's why when you look at something like a DDC Geissele rifle, almost every part is going to be a different shade. The problem comes from people who want uniformity. They start complaining that their parts don't match and it ends up being a burden on the manufacturer in one way or another. Complaints happen enough that Geissele has an entire page on their website dedicated to explaining the differences in color anodizing. Hell, Surefire stopped selling "FDE" lights to the civilian retail market for a number of years not too long ago due to all the complaints they'd get about colors not matching. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 7:16:23 AM EDT
[#35]
My complete factory Noveske Infidel upper is finished with black cerakote over the milspec type 3 black anodizing. I'm not exactly gentle when it comes to tools, but have yet to have any durability issues from normal banging around. I did cause a small chip on the top trailing edge of one of the picatinny slots, but that was my fault, as I got a bit ham-fisted when adjusting the tightness of a magnifier qd mount. I guess I needed the reminder that it's just an optic on a rifle, not something I'm about to fly over an ocean.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 10:20:21 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: Most don’t because it’s not easy to get color consistency/uniformity with anodizing that isn’t black. It’s why when you look at something like a DDC Geissele rifle, almost every part is going to be a different shade. The problem comes from people who want uniformity. They start complaining that their parts don’t match and it ends up being a burden on the manufacturer in one way or another. Complaints happen enough that Geissele has an entire page on their website dedicated to explaining the differences in color anodizing. Hell, Surefire stopped selling “FDE” lights to the civilian retail market for a number of years not too long ago due to all the complaints they’d get about colors not matching. It’s why Primary Arms offers so few options in FDE too. Because people complain it doesn’t match their Magpul stock. 
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Posted: 3/28/2024 3:44:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: It’s why Primary Arms offers so few options in FDE too. Because people complain it doesn’t match their Magpul stock. Color varies so much from application to application, especially lighter colors like FDE. One drop of hardener difference, one minute of curing time difference, humidity for sure, spray guns, slight differences in prep. So many variables. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 8:16:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Does Spike's Tactical do Cerakote relatively well. The below link is one of their rifles.
https://aimsurplus.com/products/spikes-tactical-st-15-5-56-223-fde-m4-le-16-in-carbine-rifle |
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