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Posted: 9/3/2014 6:21:28 PM EDT
[#1]
so has anybody shot this ammo yet and have any feedback/observations to report?
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Posted: 9/3/2014 6:54:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so has anybody shot this ammo yet and have any feedback/observations to report? Yes, if you've read the thread from page 1. 
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Posted: 9/3/2014 9:42:45 PM EDT
[#3]
I did a little red neck bullet testing at 50 yards out of my 16" J&T Chrome Moly 6.5 Grendel. I stapled a 9" paper plate onto a small cardboard box. I put a piece of brick in the box so it wouldn't move. I wanted to make sure the steel case wolf 100 grain FMJ would hit close to POA since my rifle was zeroed at 100 yards using factory 123 grain A-Max. I was afraid the lighter bullet might shoot high so I aimed 1 mil dot low. Well the windage was dead on but I hit low enough to hit the brick. The brick exploded and the exploding brick blew the cardboard box to shreds in a red dusty cloud.
Well the Wolf shot to almost the exact POA @ 50 yards so then I took aim at a row of water filled plastic bottles. I had two 2L pop bottles, 1 large mouth wash bottle and 1 gallon water jug. I hit the first bottle dead center and the impact was pretty impressive. I could see where the bullet started to yaw coming out of the first 2L bottle then exploded and crushed the next two bottles. Both bottles had large gaping entry and exit holes in the plastic. Both bottles were ripped wide open. The 1 gallon jug was blown about 4 feet in the air. The bottle had a 1/2" entry hole and a key holed exit hole. It appeared the bullet stayed pretty much intact and penetrated 18" of water. The gallon jug was ripped open but still was a 1/4 full because the way it landed. I then shot a 20 ounce pop bottle filled with water, the first shot didn't knock the bottle over so I quickly fired a second round which sent the bottle flying. The first entry showed the tip of the bullet so the bullet started to yaw. The second hole was through and through. I only shot four rounds but there was no foul odors and the bore and chamber area were still clean. I can't wait to shoot this steel case ammo at longer range. So far I'm pleasantly surprised. |
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Posted: 9/3/2014 11:06:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Great report V2, you gotta win some sort of prize! Variable gets the Full Auto Prize. You get the very first ever Redneck Ballistics Prize!
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Posted: 9/4/2014 1:21:48 AM EDT
[#5]
I thought this stuff was supposed to have been out a year or two ago. Nice to see it is finally.
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Posted: 9/4/2014 3:24:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did a little red neck bullet testing at 50 yards out of my 16" J&T Chrome Moly 6.5 Grendel. I stapled a 9" paper plate onto a small cardboard box. I put a piece of brick in the box so it wouldn't move. I wanted to make sure the steel case wolf 100 grain FMJ would hit close to POA since my rifle was zeroed at 100 yards using factory 123 grain A-Max. I was afraid the lighter bullet might shoot high so I aimed 1 mil dot low. Well the windage was dead on but I hit low enough to hit the brick. The brick exploded and the exploding blew the cardboard box to shreds in a red dusty cloud. Well the Wolf shot to almost the exact POA @ 50 yards so then I took aim at a row of water filled plastic bottles. I had two 2L pop bottles, 1 large mouth wash bottle and 1 gallon water jug. I hit the first dead center and the impact was pretty impressive. I could see where the bullet started to yaw come out of the first 2L bottle then exploded and crushed the next two bottles. Both bottle had large gaping entry and exit holes in the plastic. Both bottles were ripped wide open. The 1 gallon jug was blown about 4 feet in the air. The bottle had a 1/2" entry hole and a key holed exit hole. It appeared the bullet stayed pretty much intact and penetrated 18" of water. The gallon jug was ripped open but still was a 1/4 full because the way it landed. I then shot a 20 ounce pop bottle filled with water, the first shot didn't know the bottle over so I quickly fired a second round which sent the bottle flying. The first entry showed the tip of the bullet so the bullet started to yaw. The second hole was through and through. I only shot four rounds but there was no foul odors and the bore and chamber area were still clean. I can't wait to shoot this steel case ammo at longer range. So far I'm pleasantly surprised. 
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:24:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Got my case ordered.
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Posted: 9/4/2014 2:34:57 PM EDT
[#8]
It’s a good day to be a 6.5 Grendel shooter.
The cheapest 6.5 Grendel factory ammo is the Wolf steel-case 100gr FMJ at 36¢ per round. The cheapest 6.8 SPC factory ammo is Sellier & Bellot 110gr FMJ at 70¢ per round, special sale price. 36¢ x case of 500 rounds = $180 70¢ x 500 = $350 $350 - $180 = $170 So after your first case of 6.5 Grendel FMJ ammo you’re $170 ahead versus having run a 6.8 SPC. After your first 1000 rounds of 65G you’re $340 ahead. And it only gets better from there. So take your $340 and get a new barrel and take the wife out to dinner. Or just buy all your ARF.com friends a few rounds of beer! |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 5:40:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Since this is Russian ammo, I guess this will be the only shipment?
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:03:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since this is Russian ammo, I guess this will be the only shipment? I would guess there will be more. And, according to a post on the 65grendel forum, another shipment is expected in November. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:21:19 PM EDT
[#11]
This Wolf ammo has survived the Ukrainian situation so far, and we expect it to continue.
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:36:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s a good day to be a 6.5 Grendel shooter. The cheapest 6.5 Grendel factory ammo is the Wolf steel-case 100gr FMJ at 36¢ per round. The cheapest 6.8 SPC factory ammo is Sellier & Bellot 110gr FMJ at 70¢ per round, special sale price. 36¢ x case of 500 rounds = $180 70¢ x 500 = $350 $350 - $180 = $170 So after your first case of 6.5 Grendel FMJ ammo you’re $170 ahead versus having run a 6.8 SPC. After your first 1000 rounds of 65G you’re $340 ahead. And it only gets better from there. So take your $340 and get a new barrel and take the wife out to dinner. Or just buy all your ARF.com friends a few rounds of beer! Stick to the topic G-man Why do you insist on putting down the 6.8 every place you can???? You can sell the 6.8 brass for .35 to .40 each and shoot better ammo for the same price. You can buy XM68GD Federal ammo for 12 bucks a box on gunbroker, same price for brass, making it even cheaper. So your no money behind over running a 6.8 with better ammo. Keep it up G-man I'm on to your garbage sir. Do NOT take anything the Grendelizer says about the 6.8 with a grain of salt. He has his own personal agenda. If you chose a Grendel, thats great, just dont use anything this man says in your decision. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:37:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This Wolf ammo has survived the Ukrainian situation so far, and we expect it to continue. Can you look in your crystal ball and see what next weeks Powerball numbers are for me please? |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 6:59:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would guess there will be more. And, according to a post on the 65grendel forum, another shipment is expected in November. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since this is Russian ammo, I guess this will be the only shipment? I would guess there will be more. And, according to a post on the 65grendel forum, another shipment is expected in November. I hope for you Grendel shooting black rifle brothers it stays available. Obama has shut down the Russian built AK's. I wouldn't want to bet about him attacking us every way he can, including ammo. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 8:47:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you look in your crystal ball and see what next weeks Powerball numbers are for me please? 18 - 21 - 45 - 49 - 52 - (13) 
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Posted: 9/4/2014 8:52:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
18 - 21 - 45 - 49 - 52 - (13) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Can you look in your crystal ball and see what next weeks Powerball numbers are for me please? 18 - 21 - 45 - 49 - 52 - (13) There's a reason your my favorite Grendel guy Stanc, lol. 
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Posted: 9/4/2014 11:19:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would guess there will be more. And, according to a post on the 65grendel forum, another shipment is expected in November. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Since this is Russian ammo, I guess this will be the only shipment? I would guess there will be more. And, according to a post on the 65grendel forum, another shipment is expected in November. I guess if the shipment is fully paid for, it would not trigger the sanctions. However, I don't see how the one after that could be possible. |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 11:39:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:You can buy XM68GD Federal ammo for 12 bucks a box on gunbroker, same price for brass, making it even cheaper. Quote HistoryQuoted:You can buy XM68GD Federal ammo for 12 bucks a box on gunbroker, same price for brass, making it even cheaper. Gunbroker? Auction site? So if I sell my Makita 18-volt hammer drill on eBay for $25, that invalidates what Home Depot sells it for? I disagree with your premise. My data stands. Quoted: Keep it up G-man I'm on to your garbage sir. . . . Do NOT take anything the Grendelizer says about the 6.8 with a grain of salt. Uh, you're going to follow me around, yip, yip, yipping at me? OK, I guess. Got anything to say about 6.5 Grendel steel-case here? |
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Posted: 9/4/2014 11:50:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess if the shipment is fully paid for, it would not trigger the sanctions. However, I don't see how the one after that could be possible. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since this is Russian ammo, I guess this will be the only shipment? I would guess there will be more. And, according to a post on the 65grendel forum, another shipment is expected in November. I guess if the shipment is fully paid for, it would not trigger the sanctions. However, I don't see how the one after that could be possible. The last description of sanctions that I read did not appear as though it would impact ammo imports. However, I have admittedly not been paying much attention to the situation, since it doesn't affect me personally. Are you trying to say there is definitely a ban on ammo imports from Russia? Or are you just speculating that there might be at some point in the future? |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:21:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The last description of sanctions that I read did not appear as though it would impact ammo imports. However, I have admittedly not been paying much attention to the situation, since it doesn't affect me personally. Are you trying to say there is definitely a ban on ammo imports from Russia? Or are you just speculating that there might be at some point in the future? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since this is Russian ammo, I guess this will be the only shipment? I would guess there will be more. And, according to a post on the 65grendel forum, another shipment is expected in November. I guess if the shipment is fully paid for, it would not trigger the sanctions. However, I don't see how the one after that could be possible. The last description of sanctions that I read did not appear as though it would impact ammo imports. However, I have admittedly not been paying much attention to the situation, since it doesn't affect me personally. Are you trying to say there is definitely a ban on ammo imports from Russia? Or are you just speculating that there might be at some point in the future? I'm thinking we're going to see a ban on ammo. Reason being, Putin is now all in , going to Ukraine central and being open about it using his own troops. NATO will need to do something to look tough. That something will be more sanctions, small troop deployments to the region ( which we're doing ), and nearby military exercises, with an offer for one of the pressure valve countries on Russia's border being offered a spot in NATO. In choosing what things to use for sanctions, you can be assured that our current administration will make sure there are things they're against ( like weapons and ammunition ) added to the list along with the specific Russian guns that were already added, whether they actually make a real dent or not. The fact is, they don't make a dent, and are chosen due to Oldblomoe's political leanings towards disarmament. If wanted to make a dent, a real dent and actually force the Russian's out, we would pull out all the stops to supply the European nations that get NG from Russia, we would get it here in the US, and sell it at reduced prices until this thing is over. We as shooters are pawns in this game. I am happy for you G shooters to have this, as it's one step closer for us 6.8 guys getting ours. More ammo is better, more options for our 6.x calibers is better. I'm thinking we're going to see this all locked down for a while after these NATO meetings that are taking place. It will last beyond Russia pulling out, if they do, and won't be reinstated until we push it with a Republican president and both houses. While we're at it, we can push back for the Norinco and other Chinese stuff. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:25:05 AM EDT
[#21]
Unless you have actually gone and read the sanctions, a lot of whats being written in here is what others have read on ARF which is generally watered down.
Here you go, get to reading Skippy: http://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/ukrainerussia/ Nice day/month/year summary of the US/Russian sanctions since 03/14 including the most recent Exec Orders. As for the Wolf stuff, anytime "expensive" ammo can be found for cheeper prices its good for us shooters, regardless of the caliber. Hope it keeps coming, its good for the guys who ACTUALLY shoot in some volume. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:27:19 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gunbroker? Auction site? So if I sell my Makita 18-volt hammer drill on eBay for $25, that invalidates what Home Depot sells it for? I disagree with your premise. My data stands. Uh, you're going to follow me around, yip, yip, yipping at me? OK, I guess. Got anything to say about 6.5 Grendel steel-case here? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:You can buy XM68GD Federal ammo for 12 bucks a box on gunbroker, same price for brass, making it even cheaper. Gunbroker? Auction site? So if I sell my Makita 18-volt hammer drill on eBay for $25, that invalidates what Home Depot sells it for? I disagree with your premise. My data stands. Quoted: Keep it up G-man I'm on to your garbage sir. . . . Do NOT take anything the Grendelizer says about the 6.8 with a grain of salt. Uh, you're going to follow me around, yip, yip, yipping at me? OK, I guess. Got anything to say about 6.5 Grendel steel-case here? Well your hanging your hat on ammo from a country we are at strong odds with, and sanctions are growing all the time. I think Gunbroker is a safe bet compared to that, it may be available a bit longer from a stateside source. Although as I stated before for the Grendel shooters I hope it keeps flowing in for them. If guys want to shoot steel cased ammo thats their choice. As well I'm not yip yip yipping at you. Although, I can see how you would put it that way since you act like a heel biting little rat dog bringing your negative 6.8 dogma into conversations that have nothing to do with the 6.8. I'm correcting your bullshit sir, pure and simple. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 1:08:36 AM EDT
[#23]
I think I have to apologize - for some reason I was sure that Barnaul, Vympel etc. were sanctioned in the last round of EOs, but apparently that's not the case.
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Posted: 9/5/2014 1:12:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Let me not derail this thread, but, in general, if I have made any errors of fact, or have engaged in name-calling or personal attacks, I humbly apologize.
However, what I ask of you is that if I have made an error in fact, please quote it to us. If I have engaged in a personal attack or name-calling, please quote it to us. Don't just assume because others do. If I've used vulgar language to belittle someone or been less than civil, please quote it to us. OK, I know I can be an arrogant smart-ass, and I apologize for that. But you'll still have to quote it. I put the challenge out to you because I'm quite confident that's not my modus operandi. Doc Roberts, for example, really did post on multiple sites that his testing got 2604 fps. I'm not making it up. I thought, if I can't quote him as a mutually acceptable 6.8 authority, who can I quote? He was, up until you guys threw him under the bus last week, considered the premier authority on 6.8 SPC testing and his data used to be considered unimpeachable by his fans in the 6.8 crowd. Anyway, don't just assume things about me because I have strong opinions and you disagree. Search any thread I'm in. Quote it. Prove your allegations. But not here. PLEASE! Don't derail this thread. Maybe the other one? Thank you. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 1:51:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let me not derail this thread, but, in general, if I have made any errors of fact, or have engaged in name-calling or personal attacks, I humbly apologize. However, what I ask of you is that if I have made an error in fact, please quote it to us. If I have engaged in a personal attack or name-calling, please quote it to us. Don't just assume because others do. If I've used vulgar language to belittle someone or been less than civil, please quote it to us. OK, I know I can be an arrogant smart-ass, and I apologize for that. But you'll still have to quote it. I put the challenge out to you because I'm quite confident that's not my modus operandi. Doc Roberts, for example, really did post on multiple sites that his testing got 2604 fps. I'm not making it up. I thought, if I can't quote him as a mutually acceptable 6.8 authority, who can I quote? He was, up until you guys threw him under the bus last week, considered the premier authority on 6.8 SPC testing and his data used to be considered unimpeachable by his fans in the 6.8 crowd. Anyway, don't just assume things about me because I have strong opinions and you disagree. Search any thread I'm in. Quote it. Prove your allegations. But not here. PLEASE! Don't derail this thread. Maybe the other one? Thank you. You sir derailed it with your digs about the 6.8 Its a thread about 6.5G steel ammo, 9 farking pages long. It had no place in this thread to start bashing the 6.8 ammo, which is what you did. I'm not going to get in a debate about the 6.8 with you here, its disrespectful. Just as you bringing the 6.8 into this thread was. You dont just have strong opinioins sir, you have a hard on for the the 6.8. I started reading this thread to see whats going on with the 6.5G and what do I find in it, but more of your anti 6.8 campagin. You hanging on to the whole Doc this Doc that blah blah, let it go sir. Heres a thought for you. Just who's armament industry does the purchase of any Russian ammo support? In light of recent comments and actions by dear old Vlad is it in the best interest of our country to support Russias arms industry? Is it the patriotic thing to do to support the Russian arms industry in light of everything thats going on? Keep the anti 6.8 out of this thread, it does not belong here. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 2:18:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
xxxx Dude chill.......or hit the road. This isn't General Discussion and he's already apologized. You don't like Russian ammo, go post about it in GD, it's what its there for. This forum is for technical discussions ONLY.....if your comments are not technical in nature then don't post it. From the forum's Conduct Code: The tech forums (Ar15,AK47,Handgun,Armory,Training,Outdoors) are more "formal" and actions permitted in the GD forum aren't permitted there. These forums are there to share information and as a result, trolling, heated arguments,insulting others,etc won't be ignored. Personal attacks like what you have been doing in other threads WILL get you a time out or banned. From the Conduct Code of the forum: Those who choose to break these rules may be warned, have their account temporarily suspended, or be removed from this Website at the discretion of the Staff. 6) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 9:33:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude chill.......or hit the road. This isn't General Discussion and he's already apologized. You don't like Russian ammo, go post about it in GD, it's what its there for. This forum is for technical discussions ONLY.....if your comments are not technical in nature then don't post it. Great, so he can get away with it and I cant, ok understood From the forum's Conduct Code: The tech forums (Ar15,AK47,Handgun,Armory,Training,Outdoors) are more "formal" and actions permitted in the GD forum aren't permitted there. These forums are there to share information and as a result, trolling, heated arguments,insulting others,etc won't be ignored. Personal attacks like what you have been doing in other threads WILL get you a time out or banned. From the Conduct Code of the forum: Those who choose to break these rules may be warned, have their account temporarily suspended, or be removed from this Website at the discretion of the Staff. 6) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. I am not doing this, you are reading that into it. I do not want negative responses. I merely want him to stop his anti 6.8 campagain. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
xxxx Dude chill.......or hit the road. This isn't General Discussion and he's already apologized. You don't like Russian ammo, go post about it in GD, it's what its there for. This forum is for technical discussions ONLY.....if your comments are not technical in nature then don't post it. Great, so he can get away with it and I cant, ok understood From the forum's Conduct Code: The tech forums (Ar15,AK47,Handgun,Armory,Training,Outdoors) are more "formal" and actions permitted in the GD forum aren't permitted there. These forums are there to share information and as a result, trolling, heated arguments,insulting others,etc won't be ignored. Personal attacks like what you have been doing in other threads WILL get you a time out or banned. From the Conduct Code of the forum: Those who choose to break these rules may be warned, have their account temporarily suspended, or be removed from this Website at the discretion of the Staff. 6) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. I am not doing this, you are reading that into it. I do not want negative responses. I merely want him to stop his anti 6.8 campagain. Agreed. However sir How could this in anyway be construed as technical?? Grendelizer: It’s a good day to be a 6.5 Grendel shooter. The cheapest 6.5 Grendel factory ammo is the Wolf steel-case 100gr FMJ at 36¢ per round. The cheapest 6.8 SPC factory ammo is Sellier & Bellot 110gr FMJ at 70¢ per round, special sale price. 36¢ x case of 500 rounds = $180 70¢ x 500 = $350 $350 - $180 = $170 So after your first case of 6.5 Grendel FMJ ammo you’re $170 ahead versus having run a 6.8 SPC. After your first 1000 rounds of 65G you’re $340 ahead. And it only gets better from there. So take your $340 and get a new barrel and take the wife out to dinner. Or just buy all your ARF.com friends a few rounds of beer! I will leave it alone in this thread. However I will be more tactcful and technical in the future when exposing his anti 6.8 misinformation as the misinformation it is. Thank you for your information and concern. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 9:46:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed. However sir How could this in anyway be construed as technical?? Grendelizer: It’s a good day to be a 6.5 Grendel shooter. The cheapest 6.5 Grendel factory ammo is the Wolf steel-case 100gr FMJ at 36¢ per round. The cheapest 6.8 SPC factory ammo is Sellier & Bellot 110gr FMJ at 70¢ per round, special sale price. 36¢ x case of 500 rounds = $180 70¢ x 500 = $350 $350 - $180 = $170 So after your first case of 6.5 Grendel FMJ ammo you’re $170 ahead versus having run a 6.8 SPC. After your first 1000 rounds of 65G you’re $340 ahead. And it only gets better from there. So take your $340 and get a new barrel and take the wife out to dinner. Or just buy all your ARF.com friends a few rounds of beer! I will leave it alone in this thread. However I will be more tactcful and technical in the future when exposing his anti 6.8 misinformation as the misinformation it is. Thank you for your information and concern. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
xxxx Dude chill.......or hit the road. This isn't General Discussion and he's already apologized. You don't like Russian ammo, go post about it in GD, it's what its there for. This forum is for technical discussions ONLY.....if your comments are not technical in nature then don't post it. Great, so he can get away with it and I cant, ok understood From the forum's Conduct Code: The tech forums (Ar15,AK47,Handgun,Armory,Training,Outdoors) are more "formal" and actions permitted in the GD forum aren't permitted there. These forums are there to share information and as a result, trolling, heated arguments,insulting others,etc won't be ignored. Personal attacks like what you have been doing in other threads WILL get you a time out or banned. From the Conduct Code of the forum: Those who choose to break these rules may be warned, have their account temporarily suspended, or be removed from this Website at the discretion of the Staff. 6) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. I am not doing this, you are reading that into it. I do not want negative responses. I merely want him to stop his anti 6.8 campagain. Agreed. However sir How could this in anyway be construed as technical?? Grendelizer: It’s a good day to be a 6.5 Grendel shooter. The cheapest 6.5 Grendel factory ammo is the Wolf steel-case 100gr FMJ at 36¢ per round. The cheapest 6.8 SPC factory ammo is Sellier & Bellot 110gr FMJ at 70¢ per round, special sale price. 36¢ x case of 500 rounds = $180 70¢ x 500 = $350 $350 - $180 = $170 So after your first case of 6.5 Grendel FMJ ammo you’re $170 ahead versus having run a 6.8 SPC. After your first 1000 rounds of 65G you’re $340 ahead. And it only gets better from there. So take your $340 and get a new barrel and take the wife out to dinner. Or just buy all your ARF.com friends a few rounds of beer! I will leave it alone in this thread. However I will be more tactcful and technical in the future when exposing his anti 6.8 misinformation as the misinformation it is. Thank you for your information and concern. I'm a 6.5 Grendel shooter who has also done a ton of 6.8 load development and shooting and I agree completely that the 6.5 vs 6.8 vs whatever crap just hurts everyone who enjoys alternative AR15 calibers. It's not a zero sum game where one has to "lose" for another to "win." So yes, let's return to technical info about Grendel steel cased ammo and leave "gotcha" comparisons out of it. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 11:09:53 AM EDT
[#29]
I would maintain that the price of steel-cased ammo versus alternatives is completely and fundamentally relevant to any discussion of it.
If pointing out an advantage of one cartridge vs. another is a "gotcha," then, sure, everything in this forum is "gotchas." I certainly could just as easily have compared it to, oh, 5.56 or 7.62x39, but 6.8 SPC is the closest competition and invites the most direct comparison. The price is completely relevant data when people are looking into alternative cartridges. Is the 6.5 Grendel crowd supposed to cry foul if someone compares its velocity to a 6.8 load, or its availability to the 6.8 availability, and makes it "look bad"? One certainly has no remit to violate the COC here, but it's also possible to be too sensitive the other way. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 11:51:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would maintain that the price of steel-cased ammo versus alternatives is completely and fundamentally relevant to any discussion of it. If pointing out an advantage of one cartridge vs. another is a "gotcha," then, sure, everything in this forum is "gotchas." I certainly could just as easily have compared it to, oh, 5.56 or 7.62x39, but 6.8 SPC is the closest competition and invites the most direct comparison. The price is completely relevant data when people are looking into alternative cartridges. Is the 6.5 Grendel crowd supposed to cry foul if someone compares its velocity to a 6.8 load, or its availability to the 6.8 availability, and makes it "look bad"? One certainly has no remit to violate the COC here, but it's also possible to be too sensitive the other way. I guess the way you approached the topic was dismissive of 6.8SPC, which in turn just adds fuel to the fire. I'm sure it sounds like harmless ribbing on the face of it, but there's WAY too much history among certain proponents of each caliber who are WAY past letting stuff like this go. As you can see, this in turn just adds useless noise to a technical forum topic. And that having been said, I will now shut up about it!
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Posted: 9/5/2014 12:00:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Lets' knock off the damn 6.8 vs 6.5 Crap NOW.
This is a thread about an exciting event in the world of alternate AR calibers - particularly for the 6.5 Grendel. Keep it on topic. Capisce? |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 2:33:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Thanks Forest.
Anyone know if they are planning other loads or sticking with one? I assume they will do the one load for a while but I didnt know if they had plans for another. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 2:41:02 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone know if they are planning other loads or sticking with one? I assume they will do the one load for a while but I didnt know if they had plans for another. Only thing I've seen is what Bill Alexander said in Nov 2012: "A heavy type ball is also being examined for a longer range type weapon." http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?8984-Bill-Alexander-on-Wolf-steel-case-ammo |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 2:53:10 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only thing I've seen is what Bill Alexander said in Nov 2012: "A heavy type ball is also being examined for a longer range type weapon." http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?8984-Bill-Alexander-on-Wolf-steel-case-ammo Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Anyone know if they are planning other loads or sticking with one? I assume they will do the one load for a while but I didnt know if they had plans for another. Only thing I've seen is what Bill Alexander said in Nov 2012: "A heavy type ball is also being examined for a longer range type weapon." http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?8984-Bill-Alexander-on-Wolf-steel-case-ammo If they do a heavy bullet loading, Type D, it will need to be color coded Yellow........with the current loading color coded Silver.....
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Posted: 9/5/2014 4:57:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You sir derailed it with your digs about the 6.8 Its a thread about 6.5G steel ammo, 9 farking pages long. It had no place in this thread to start bashing the 6.8 ammo, which is what you did. I'm not going to get in a debate about the 6.8 with you here, its disrespectful. Just as you bringing the 6.8 into this thread was. You dont just have strong opinioins sir, you have a hard on for the the 6.8. I started reading this thread to see whats going on with the 6.5G and what do I find in it, but more of your anti 6.8 campagin. You hanging on to the whole Doc this Doc that blah blah, let it go sir. Heres a thought for you. Just who's armament industry does the purchase of any Russian ammo support? In light of recent comments and actions by dear old Vlad is it in the best interest of our country to support Russias arms industry? Is it the patriotic thing to do to support the Russian arms industry in light of everything thats going on? Keep the anti 6.8 out of this thread, it does not belong here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let me not derail this thread, but, in general, if I have made any errors of fact, or have engaged in name-calling or personal attacks, I humbly apologize. However, what I ask of you is that if I have made an error in fact, please quote it to us. If I have engaged in a personal attack or name-calling, please quote it to us. Don't just assume because others do. If I've used vulgar language to belittle someone or been less than civil, please quote it to us. OK, I know I can be an arrogant smart-ass, and I apologize for that. But you'll still have to quote it. I put the challenge out to you because I'm quite confident that's not my modus operandi. Doc Roberts, for example, really did post on multiple sites that his testing got 2604 fps. I'm not making it up. I thought, if I can't quote him as a mutually acceptable 6.8 authority, who can I quote? He was, up until you guys threw him under the bus last week, considered the premier authority on 6.8 SPC testing and his data used to be considered unimpeachable by his fans in the 6.8 crowd. Anyway, don't just assume things about me because I have strong opinions and you disagree. Search any thread I'm in. Quote it. Prove your allegations. But not here. PLEASE! Don't derail this thread. Maybe the other one? Thank you. You sir derailed it with your digs about the 6.8 Its a thread about 6.5G steel ammo, 9 farking pages long. It had no place in this thread to start bashing the 6.8 ammo, which is what you did. I'm not going to get in a debate about the 6.8 with you here, its disrespectful. Just as you bringing the 6.8 into this thread was. You dont just have strong opinioins sir, you have a hard on for the the 6.8. I started reading this thread to see whats going on with the 6.5G and what do I find in it, but more of your anti 6.8 campagin. You hanging on to the whole Doc this Doc that blah blah, let it go sir. Heres a thought for you. Just who's armament industry does the purchase of any Russian ammo support? In light of recent comments and actions by dear old Vlad is it in the best interest of our country to support Russias arms industry? Is it the patriotic thing to do to support the Russian arms industry in light of everything thats going on? Keep the anti 6.8 out of this thread, it does not belong here. Allow me to make this clear, nothing in this thread is about USA vs Russia and our current political state. By injecting this into a technical discussion you are in fact derailing everything here. Knock it off, stick to the tech aspect and lets see how things work out in here. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 5:02:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed. However sir How could this in anyway be construed as technical?? Grendelizer: It’s a good day to be a 6.5 Grendel shooter. The cheapest 6.5 Grendel factory ammo is the Wolf steel-case 100gr FMJ at 36¢ per round. The cheapest 6.8 SPC factory ammo is Sellier & Bellot 110gr FMJ at 70¢ per round, special sale price. 36¢ x case of 500 rounds = $180 70¢ x 500 = $350 $350 - $180 = $170 So after your first case of 6.5 Grendel FMJ ammo you’re $170 ahead versus having run a 6.8 SPC. After your first 1000 rounds of 65G you’re $340 ahead. And it only gets better from there. So take your $340 and get a new barrel and take the wife out to dinner. Or just buy all your ARF.com friends a few rounds of beer! I will leave it alone in this thread. However I will be more tactcful and technical in the future when exposing his anti 6.8 misinformation as the misinformation it is. Thank you for your information and concern. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
xxxx Dude chill.......or hit the road. This isn't General Discussion and he's already apologized. You don't like Russian ammo, go post about it in GD, it's what its there for. This forum is for technical discussions ONLY.....if your comments are not technical in nature then don't post it. Great, so he can get away with it and I cant, ok understood From the forum's Conduct Code: The tech forums (Ar15,AK47,Handgun,Armory,Training,Outdoors) are more "formal" and actions permitted in the GD forum aren't permitted there. These forums are there to share information and as a result, trolling, heated arguments,insulting others,etc won't be ignored. Personal attacks like what you have been doing in other threads WILL get you a time out or banned. From the Conduct Code of the forum: Those who choose to break these rules may be warned, have their account temporarily suspended, or be removed from this Website at the discretion of the Staff. 6) Attacking or insulting a person in an effort to elicit a negative response. I am not doing this, you are reading that into it. I do not want negative responses. I merely want him to stop his anti 6.8 campagain. Agreed. However sir How could this in anyway be construed as technical?? Grendelizer: It’s a good day to be a 6.5 Grendel shooter. The cheapest 6.5 Grendel factory ammo is the Wolf steel-case 100gr FMJ at 36¢ per round. The cheapest 6.8 SPC factory ammo is Sellier & Bellot 110gr FMJ at 70¢ per round, special sale price. 36¢ x case of 500 rounds = $180 70¢ x 500 = $350 $350 - $180 = $170 So after your first case of 6.5 Grendel FMJ ammo you’re $170 ahead versus having run a 6.8 SPC. After your first 1000 rounds of 65G you’re $340 ahead. And it only gets better from there. So take your $340 and get a new barrel and take the wife out to dinner. Or just buy all your ARF.com friends a few rounds of beer! I will leave it alone in this thread. However I will be more tactcful and technical in the future when exposing his anti 6.8 misinformation as the misinformation it is. Thank you for your information and concern. So what if someone does a price comparison, its technical, it involves the topic at hand and it is not discussing politics, although you could make a case for the fiscal state of our nation somehow with regards to the cost of ammo, it would be a stretch. The truth is, the cost of ammo for AR Variants is in fact technical in nature, so discussing it is relevant. He is not hot linking to various sites with it for sale, etc. so no overt violation is present. Look I did the 6.x vs 6.y thing for awhile... got into a few rounds of key board judo with some of the same old posters in this very thread. Then I grew up. Lots of clear emotion in several posts by people in here, consider this my fair warning to you all, knock off some of the crap and lets keep things to the tech aspects. Thanks. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 5:51:04 PM EDT
[#37]
So where can I get a sub $250 10.5-12.5" grendel barrel, in 4140 or 4150 and melonited? I'm not interested in shooting this stuff out of my $450 shilen match barrel...
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Posted: 9/5/2014 5:55:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So where can I get a sub $250 10.5-12.5" grendel barrel, in 4140 or 4150 and melonited? I'm not interested in shooting this stuff out of my $450 shilen match barrel... These guys will make you a 12.5" barrel, melonited, from Sabre Defence 4150 16" blanks, WITH headspaced bolt, for $275. It's a hell of a deal. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 6:00:01 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So where can I get a sub $250 10.5-12.5" grendel barrel, in 4140 or 4150 and melonited? I'm not interested in shooting this stuff out of my $450 shilen match barrel... What about this ammo stops you from shooting it in a decent barrel ? |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 6:08:14 PM EDT
[#40]
What a crappy time to be too poor to buy cheap ammo
 . I'd love to get a case of this stuff...anyone need a kidney or a spleen?
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Posted: 9/5/2014 6:14:16 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These guys will make you a 12.5" barrel, melonited, from Sabre Defence 4150 16" blanks, WITH headspaced bolt, for $275. It's a hell of a deal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So where can I get a sub $250 10.5-12.5" grendel barrel, in 4140 or 4150 and melonited? I'm not interested in shooting this stuff out of my $450 shilen match barrel... These guys will make you a 12.5" barrel, melonited, from Sabre Defence 4150 16" blanks, WITH headspaced bolt, for $275. It's a hell of a deal. Do I have to email them? I don't see it listed on their website. Angus, even though it's probably not a big deal, I don't want to shoot bimetal jacketed ammo through my match barrel.
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Posted: 9/5/2014 7:25:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do I have to email them? I don't see it listed on their website. Angus, even though it's probably not a big deal, I don't want to shoot bimetal jacketed ammo through my match barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So where can I get a sub $250 10.5-12.5" grendel barrel, in 4140 or 4150 and melonited? I'm not interested in shooting this stuff out of my $450 shilen match barrel... These guys will make you a 12.5" barrel, melonited, from Sabre Defence 4150 16" blanks, WITH headspaced bolt, for $275. It's a hell of a deal. Do I have to email them? I don't see it listed on their website. Angus, even though it's probably not a big deal, I don't want to shoot bimetal jacketed ammo through my match barrel. Yep you have to email or call. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 7:57:00 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about this ammo stops you from shooting it in a decent barrel ? I'm not excited about copper wash bullets in my SS ARP 264, it shoots factory 123 AMAX to tight to mess with and wear out!!!! I've seen a test with copper washed bullets in a 5.56, barrel wore out fast, but was also heated up LOTS, I'd like to see a test done with this Grendel ammo.(ammo is cheap enough to test,lol). Also ARP 264 barrels are rare, I intend to wear the barrel out with 123 Nosler CC's For ~40 cents a round, that's cheaper than I can load anything in 6.5 G or 6.8 SPC, I'm looking for a Lightweight 16 inch tube now, with a Melonite finish!!!!!!! I was cold at this ammo first, but I'm going to try it, Price is too DAMM GOOD. Fingers are crossed for 6.8 steel cases from that part of the world. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 10:21:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Yeah, that torture test that everyone is citing reminds me too much of those "medical" tests where they shove 1,000,000 times a reasonable quantity of a given substance down a rat's throat to prove it causes cancer. I'm thinking that I it ever comes time I'm pushing that much projectile that quickly down a given barrel, barrel wear is going to be way down the list of problems I'm dealing with at that point.
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Posted: 9/5/2014 10:30:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, that torture test that everyone is citing reminds me too much of those "medical" tests where they shove 1,000,000 times a reasonable quantity of a given substance down a rat's throat to prove it causes cancer. I'm thinking that I it ever comes time I'm pushing that much projectile that quickly down a given barrel, barrel wear is going to be way down the list of problems I'm dealing with at that point. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 10:56:43 PM EDT
[#46]
< Non Technical - F >
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Posted: 9/5/2014 11:07:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't disagree with you. The firing schedule they put those barrels through was pretty rough. At the same time, my shilen barrel has shown itself to be capable of sub 3" groups at 500 yards when I do my part, and I'm not gonna risk fucking that up with bimetal ammo that isn't capable of that level of accuracy anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah, that torture test that everyone is citing reminds me too much of those "medical" tests where they shove 1,000,000 times a reasonable quantity of a given substance down a rat's throat to prove it causes cancer. I'm thinking that I it ever comes time I'm pushing that much projectile that quickly down a given barrel, barrel wear is going to be way down the list of problems I'm dealing with at that point. Wasn't suggesting that. On the other hand, I'm not too greatly concerned with putting measured shots through my button barreled Liberty, or, indeed, cheap assed steel crap 5.56 through my Del-ton AR. I suspect that, inasmuch as I have dies and bullets and brass, I'll be putting brass and lead through even my Liberty almost exclusively, in spite of the lowish cost of the Wolf steel. What this DOES mean to me, however, is that at least one of my plinker 5.56 guns is going to be wearing a new 6.5 barrel here shortly as I begin to consolidate my long arms into a greater degree of Grendel goodness. Then, once I see what sort of accelerated wear I'm getting (if any noticeable wear occurs with my shooting schedule) OR somebody somewhere else does a more realistic survey on bimetal projectiles, I'll adjust accordingly. In my mind, all that study proved was that running bi-metal projectiles through an uncooled automatic crew served weapon would probably be a bad idea. |
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Posted: 9/5/2014 11:56:06 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In my mind, all that study proved was that running bi-metal projectiles through an uncooled automatic crew served weapon would probably be a bad idea. I think it may depend a lot on the particular weapon and barrel type. Last I checked, it looked like most USGI 7.62 M80 Ball in links for machine guns has gilding metal clad steel (what the Russkis call "bi-metal") bullets. Granted, there isn't as much concern about accuracy shooting with machine guns, but they also don't want the barrels to wear out too fast. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 9:31:29 AM EDT
[#49]
If you want a match grade barrel, that'll shoot these rounds without destroying the barrel check out the group buy I started in light of these rounds hitting the market.
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?8891-Grendel-Short-Barrel-Group-Buy-Orders We're having them Nitrited. It'll significantly increase the surface hardness and durability of the barrels. |
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Posted: 9/6/2014 1:11:29 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wasn't suggesting that. On the other hand, I'm not too greatly concerned with putting measured shots through my button barreled Liberty, or, indeed, cheap assed steel crap 5.56 through my Del-ton AR. I suspect that, inasmuch as I have dies and bullets and brass, I'll be putting brass and lead through even my Liberty almost exclusively, in spite of the lowish cost of the Wolf steel. What this DOES mean to me, however, is that at least one of my plinker 5.56 guns is going to be wearing a new 6.5 barrel here shortly as I begin to consolidate my long arms into a greater degree of Grendel goodness. Then, once I see what sort of accelerated wear I'm getting (if any noticeable wear occurs with my shooting schedule) OR somebody somewhere else does a more realistic survey on bimetal projectiles, I'll adjust accordingly. In my mind, all that study proved was that running bi-metal projectiles through an uncooled automatic crew served weapon would probably be a bad idea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, that torture test that everyone is citing reminds me too much of those "medical" tests where they shove 1,000,000 times a reasonable quantity of a given substance down a rat's throat to prove it causes cancer. I'm thinking that I it ever comes time I'm pushing that much projectile that quickly down a given barrel, barrel wear is going to be way down the list of problems I'm dealing with at that point. Wasn't suggesting that. On the other hand, I'm not too greatly concerned with putting measured shots through my button barreled Liberty, or, indeed, cheap assed steel crap 5.56 through my Del-ton AR. I suspect that, inasmuch as I have dies and bullets and brass, I'll be putting brass and lead through even my Liberty almost exclusively, in spite of the lowish cost of the Wolf steel. What this DOES mean to me, however, is that at least one of my plinker 5.56 guns is going to be wearing a new 6.5 barrel here shortly as I begin to consolidate my long arms into a greater degree of Grendel goodness. Then, once I see what sort of accelerated wear I'm getting (if any noticeable wear occurs with my shooting schedule) OR somebody somewhere else does a more realistic survey on bimetal projectiles, I'll adjust accordingly. In my mind, all that study proved was that running bi-metal projectiles through an uncooled automatic crew served weapon would probably be a bad idea. Just help set a buddy up to reload for grendel , using 7.62x39 brass and hitting Sierra outlet out figure $335/K |
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