Its going to get messy mailing in those grapefruits to be scored.

Quoted: I'm in. Heres a pic for those who don't get the off hand position. OffHand position.

What is the guy in the middle doing!? I have not seen that stance before.

height=8

Quoted: height=8 Quoted: I'm in. Heres a pic for those who don't get the off hand position. OffHand position. What is the guy in the middle doing!? I have not seen that stance before.

That's a target offhand stance.  He's trying to get a bone on bone connection from his elbow to his hip.  Muscles get tired and move your bones don't.  If you trace lines through the long bones in his arms and legs you'll see two triangles of "solid" bone stacked on top of each other.  This helps minimize movement.  Great for slow fire target shooting, not so great in a run and gun situation.  If you look at the traditional target shooting positions you'll notice the triangle of bone in all of them.

BigBore, it looks like there is a bout a 3-4 second pause between shots in your video, and I'd guess about half that time is one shooter moving forward and assuming a good stance after the previous shooter has taken his turn. This means the time to aim the shot is about 2 seconds or so.

Keep in mind guys, that assuming a stance and hitting a stationary target in 3-4 seconds should be realatively easy with a bit of practice. Add movement to the shooter or target and things get a lot more dicey.

I do fairly well on running jackrabbits out hunting, but this challenge will be interesting. I'm going to try to get video of my pace and post my target later tonight, if I can sneak away to the range.

My range only runs out to 25 yards.  Would a 2 1/2" shrunken grapefruit work?

Would a 2 1/2" shrunken grapefruit work?

Or you could start a Tangerine Match .

Quoted: Would a 2 1/2" shrunken grapefruit work? Or you could start a Tangerine Match .

or a golf ball

Quoted: Quoted: You guys are missing the point of my sig line.  My comment isnt about the ability to hit a 6" circle off hand, at the range, by yourself with all the practice shots and prep time using your rifle of choice for the task. Bigbore - thanks for your comments. I know not all will be true to the spirit of this thread - hitting a target, in a fighting stance, at speed - but some will. It will also encourage more people to get out of their comfort zones and try to learn how to use their rifles beyond making noise and light.

I could not agree more. I think this a great idea, and will hopefully cause people to get off the bench and try something different.

Bigbore, I think this does somewhat address the idea of your sig line - True marksmanship. Hopefully getting people to get off the bench to try this, will teach them what real marksmanship means and eventually do what your sig line says. Baby steps first.

BAN shooting benches, its for the children!!!

Well I took a new AR out to the range today to sight in the irons and they were dead on right out of the box which was nice.  After running a few rounds down range I figured I would try some 10 shot groups standing at 50 yards.  Not so great but after my 4/5 string I put 14 rounds (out of 20) in a grapefruit sized paper.  I probably should have stopped at ten as they may have all been in the grapefruit but oh well.  I was pretty excited with that as I was shooting Wolf 62gr HPs with irons from 50.  I think with a little more practice I can get ten of them in that grapefruit with irons at 50 yards.  I wasn't taking my time either, maybe a couple seconds between shots.

Obviously still have work to do but this was a nice challenge to get me thinking about those shots.  After seeing an above post maybe part of my problem was the Wolf?

Brings back memories of 1970. I was a young man of 16 with a RayOVac flashlight ductaped to the bottom of my Remington 552 shooting rats at the dump. Man was that fun. Then women and alcohol became more fun.

Well, here is my sad little contribution to this thread.
5 out of 10 shots on that grapefruit-target at 50yds.
50%
Not good.  The Bushmaster could probably have done that well without me.

I'm quite confident about my prone-shooting ability.  Obviously, I need more offhand practice.

FOR THE RECORD:
The sun was NOT in my eyes.
There was no wind.
I was shooting good-quality surplus ammo.
My sights were not loose.
This exercise had its intended effect -- I now recognize that I need more offhand practice.

Quoted: Quoted: Would a 2 1/2" shrunken grapefruit work? Or you could start a Tangerine Match . or a golf ball

The golf ball is my favorite target, occasionally golf balls are left at the range where I shoot I always scoff them up, toss them out a ways and start shooting them as they fly down the range. I usually do good until they get past the 50 yd marker then they look way too small to me. The furthest hit so far was just under 100yds but that took 10 rounds and then it was a lucky shot.  I also like shooting plastic bottles and aluminum cans, nothing beats a target that moves after every shot for practice.  I also like clay pigeons at 250 yds ,  they are about the minimum size target I can see at that distance and shoot with out a scope.  

I went out to the range today with a few copies of the Grapefruit .PDF.  I was shooting my patrol rifle, a Bushmaster M4A3 with an EOTech sight.  

Here's the rifle:



Well, I did not do as well as I thought I might.  I rarely shoot standing from the 50yd line, usually it's at the 25yd line.  I shot the targets from a fighting position, not the bladed, formal "Off-Hand" position.  I started from the ready position, then mentally gave myself the "go" command, came up on target, and fired.  I repeated this process for each shot.  Some targets were shot twice, some three times, because I really wasn't counting.    

My best target: 2/2 hits



My worst:  1/3 hits



Then I moved to the 25yd line, and let r' rip!  I gave myself the "go" command, came up on target, and fired two to three quick shots.  I got a little too quick on the trigger a couple times and fired before I was on target.  Oops...  



I was very disappointed I missed the two, but I was shooting a LOT faster than at the 50yd line.  

It was fun, and educational.  I'm glad I read this thread, printed off the .pdf and made the time to "get out there."

Quoted: I'm in. Heres a pic for those who don't get the off hand position. OffHand position.

Quoted: While you are correct, that IS the official "Offhand" stance, I don't think that's the kind of "offhand" Big Bore had in mind when he made the comment about shooting a grapefruit.   He meant to use a FIGHTING stance, not a target stance. Try this:

Huh? Neither of those messages show a good fighting stance, IMHO.  One is about competition and the other is about dynamic entry. What the heck has become of basic marksmanship?

It is perfectly reasonable to use a properly tensioned M1907 or hasty sling to help with accuracy. I can understand why the go-fast crowd would forget that. After all, that vertical grip and all of the other jewelry tends to interfere with a proper offhand shooting position.

I hope we haven't degenerated into considering a sling only as a means to hang a firearm off your body.

.