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Posted: 6/9/2012 9:04:26 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
No... It's NOT "tightened to spec"... It is supposed to be timed.... That is why there are crush washers, and peel washers. If this "gunsmith" can not look at it, and understand that the holes need to be on the top, and sides, but not on the bottom...Then he has no idea what a muzzle break even does.[/quote] If a brake has to be timed and then welded, you wouldn't use crush or peel washers to do it. Either the brake or the barrel shoulder would have to be set back the proper amount for the brake to index when fully torqued. then you weld or pin it. It takes a lathe and some know how to get 'er done. [/quote] CAFR, are you the same "gunsmith" that installed the OP's brake???? ETA: Dammit, RJeff21 already beat me to it. |
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Posted: 6/9/2012 1:32:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Did you include the crush or peel washer when u dropped it off? Also was it new? I know you shouldn't reuse old ones. Still you would think he would be familar with muzzle breaks. New in unopened package. Actually my 14.5 Spikes Cold Forged was also new in package....... I think it came with one crush washer, and that's all he used. Hell, I watched a youtube video on how to install a comp before I bought it. That was before I chose the 14.5 and needed it welded. Should have put it on yourself, then taken it to him to drill and weld - but then he probably would have drilled an extra hole in the barrel - but don't worry, "she'll shoot just fine". |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 10:34:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Update:
I waited all Saturday for the call, nothing. I called him today about 30 min ago, and he told me it's ready to be picked up........... He said he was able to tighten it down. 
I asked him if he had to drill another hole because he pinned/welded the dam thing on there, I know because I saw the weld bead. This is my first indepth build, and I am unfamiliar with how to question this guy as to what he did, my understanding is that when the comp is welded on, it is permanently attached to the barrel and can not be turned tightened or loosened, right? I am concerned about damage to my barrel. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 10:39:55 AM EDT
[#4]
If done correctly, he shouldn't Be able to move it without removing the pin. So it sounds like he put it on wrong and then pinned it wrong?
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Posted: 6/11/2012 10:45:30 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
If done correctly, he shouldn't Be able to move it without removing the pin. So it sounds like he put it on wrong and then pinned it wrong? Or didn't pin it at all? maybe? |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 11:05:48 AM EDT
[#6]
Very possible or just screwed up your barrel torquing the pin across the threads with a cheater bar.
I would have said an ass whooping would of been in order! Just me though must of been his first time attaching a muzzle device. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 11:19:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Very possible or just screwed up your barrel torquing the pin across the threads with a cheater bar. I would have said an ass whooping would of been in order! Just me though must of been his first time attaching a muzzle device. dafuq?! How can I tell that's what he did? |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 11:36:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Your best play here, without question, is to contact ADCO and send it to them. I don't think the guy you used had any business doing this in the first place, much less trying to fix what he did.
ADCO will tell you exactly what needs to be done to make things right. Their turnaround time is so fast, I don't even use my local guys any more. At this point like the other have said, he could have bent your indexing pin or who knows what else........... |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 12:11:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Update: I waited all Saturday for the call, nothing. I called him today about 30 min ago, and he told me it's ready to be picked up........... He said he was able to tighten it down. I asked him if he had to drill another hole because he pinned/welded the dam thing on there, I know because I saw the weld bead. This is my first indepth build, and I am unfamiliar with how to question this guy as to what he did, my understanding is that when the comp is welded on, it is permanently attached to the barrel and can not be turned tightened or loosened, right? I am concerned about damage to my barrel. Um, assuming he previously pinned it, this doesn't sound good to me at all. OP, do you have pics you can post? |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 12:21:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Update: I waited all Saturday for the call, nothing. I called him today about 30 min ago, and he told me it's ready to be picked up........... He said he was able to tighten it down.
I asked him if he had to drill another hole because he pinned/welded the dam thing on there, I know because I saw the weld bead. This is my first indepth build, and I am unfamiliar with how to question this guy as to what he did, my understanding is that when the comp is welded on, it is permanently attached to the barrel and can not be turned tightened or loosened, right? I am concerned about damage to my barrel. Um, assuming he previously pinned it, this doesn't sound good to me at all. OP, do you have pics you can post? No pics yet, I will be making a surprise visit to his store this afternoon, I will get some pics and post it. And will be finding out who his liability insurance is through. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 12:22:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Ask him how exactly did he "tighten it down"...???
And then when he gives you the bullshit answer that you can expect tell him,...."you know what...I don't think this is going to be acceptable, you've had two shot's at it and blown it....I would like my money back so I can get this done right elsewhere". He is obviously not competent. No need in getting stressed out while dealing with an idiot. Get what you can back out of the deal. Get it done right somewhere reputable like ADCO. Learn from your mistakes. Take pride in knowing you have made the community more aware of bullshit "smiths". |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 12:27:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If done correctly, he shouldn't Be able to move it without removing the pin. So it sounds like he put it on wrong and then pinned it wrong? Or didn't pin it at all? maybe? 1100 degree silver solder maybe? |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 12:34:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Ask him how exactly did he "tighten it down"...??? And then when he gives you the bullshit answer that you can expect tell him,...."you know what...I don't think this is going to be acceptable, you've had two shot's at it and blown it....I would like my money back so I can get this done right elsewhere". He is obviously not competent. No need in getting stressed out while dealing with an idiot. Get what you can back out of the deal. Get it done right somewhere reputable like ADCO. Learn from your mistakes. Take pride in knowing you have made the community more aware of bullshit "smiths". I'm stressed because this was my first build, and I'm sure you know as well as everyone here, that you don't want your sh1t fucked up. I wanted a unique rifle, different from everything else; otherwise I would have bought off the rack. This was my first build, and of course the one section that I needed help with because of a lack of tools, my shit gets fucked up. What I am worried about is not the 90 dollar comp; it's the 300 dollar barrel. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 12:40:40 PM EDT
[#14]
double tap
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Posted: 6/11/2012 12:42:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ask him how exactly did he "tighten it down"...??? And then when he gives you the bullshit answer that you can expect tell him,...."you know what...I don't think this is going to be acceptable, you've had two shot's at it and blown it....I would like my money back so I can get this done right elsewhere". He is obviously not competent. No need in getting stressed out while dealing with an idiot. Get what you can back out of the deal. Get it done right somewhere reputable like ADCO. Learn from your mistakes. Take pride in knowing you have made the community more aware of bullshit "smiths". I'm stressed because this was my first build, and I'm sure you know as well as everyone here, that you don't want your sh1t fucked up. I wanted a unique rifle, different from everything else, otherwise I would have bought off the rack. This was my first build, and of course the one section that I needed help with because of a lack of tools, my shit gets fucked up. What I am worried about is not the 90 dollar comp, it's the 300 dollar barrel. I fully understand and agree with you. In all honesty you can take your lumps by accepting what you know to be half-assed work, or you can take them by losing some, if not all, of your money. I know that sounds awful shitty, but those are your two most likely scenarios. I would try to get what I could back out of it. But, I wouldn't count on it. I hate it for you. Truly, I do. I wish you a satisfactory resolve as well. I am a bit pessimistic. Life has made me that way. As long as you expect the worst you won't have to worry about being quite as upset when it happens. 
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Posted: 6/11/2012 12:51:58 PM EDT
[#16]
I am nobody special, I don't trust anyone to work on my guns or my truck. Uusually you can buy the needed tools and with the help of the internet and videos on you tube and Brownells you can learn how to do it yourself. You also have ggreat forums like this to ask all the dumb questions before you make a huge mistake like this joker. I would not want him touching it again, and I have no problems in telling him why. I would either learn to DIY it or send it to Adco on his dime. I would also tell everyone you know as well as post his name here and any other local forum you might be on to hopefully keep someone else from going to this clown. Good luck
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Posted: 6/11/2012 12:58:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Very possible or just screwed up your barrel torquing the pin across the threads with a cheater bar. I would have said an ass whooping would of been in order! Just me though must of been his first time attaching a muzzle device. dafuq?! How can I tell that's what he did? Not real sure how to answer that question. But I would ask him if he pinned it how was he able to align it without drilling the old pin out. If he was able to turn the muzzle device while pinned then it was not legal you had an SBR upper. ATF has rules about it and if you can turn the muzzle device it is not pinned correctly. I think you should take your wife or g/f in with you when you go or have someone there to restrain you because from what you are saying if he did pin it in fact and then did not drill out the pin to realign it he either did one of three things. Did not pin it, did not pin it right, or raped your barrel using a cheater bar and torqued the muzzle device while pinned. ETA you cannot cure, reason or beat out stupid from anyone. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 1:05:27 PM EDT
[#18]
Sorry you are going through this.
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Posted: 6/11/2012 1:11:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Sorry you are going through this. Agreed. Seriously feel bad for you. 
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Posted: 6/11/2012 1:32:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Don't worry about your barrel, It will be fine. All that has been done to it is have a detent drilled in to the threads (although on the side, most drill from the bottom). The loss will probably be on the comp end, but not necessarily . I have removed and pinned FHs before. The weld must be ground off, usually taking some of the muzzle device too. Depending on how tight of a pin he used to punch in the hole will determine how much work will have to be done to remove pin. A lose pin can be shaken out.
Best case: comp removed with minimal wear/grinding, re-timed, re-drilled, new weld covers up most of the grind marks Worst case: buy new comp, get new gunsmith to pin it Hope this helps |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 1:45:18 PM EDT
[#21]
The poster who talked about using a lathe is talking about an old school method of timing things. By removing small amounts of metal from the rear of a muzzle brake, it will move the point where it is properly torqued clockwise. Same thing can be done by using different thickness shim washers. Thicker washers move it counter clockwise.
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Posted: 6/11/2012 1:47:02 PM EDT
[#22]
^^^ this ^^^
I too am having a bit of AR related stress due to a seller of a lower receiver shipping it USPS without a copy of his ID and when he finally sends the copy it's on a doc with a different out of state address than the ID. The FFL won't do the transfer and refuses to return the lower to the seller because of the different addresses. Now I'm starting to feel like I'm being ripped off by both the seller and the FFL. I contact BATFE and explain the situation, BATFE contacts the FFL and instructs him to return the lower to an FFL of the sellers choice. It's going on a week now and the seller still has not sent an FFL info. Sorry for hijacking the OP's thread just wanted to let him know he's not alone in dealing with those we mistakenly trust to do the right thing. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 1:50:24 PM EDT
[#23]
I wish you didn't bring the barrel back to that incompetent fool.
Hopefully, by some miracle, he didn't further screw it up. Good luck. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 3:01:45 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
The poster who talked about using a lathe is talking about an old school method of timing things. By removing small amounts of metal from the rear of a muzzle brake, it will move the point where it is properly torqued clockwise. Same thing can be done by using different thickness shim washers. Thicker washers move it counter clockwise. That is how you would time a barrel that is threaded into a receiver, or...maybe even a muzzle device on a bolt gun, or some other type of rifle. That is NOT how it is done on an AR. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 3:44:33 PM EDT
[#25]
The pin either wasn't drilled deep enough or it was sheared off. Please send it to me so I can fix it.
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Posted: 6/11/2012 4:00:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
The pin either wasn't drilled deep enough or it was sheared off. Please send it to me so I can fix it. That's classy Tom. Big props to you Sir. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 4:03:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
The pin either wasn't drilled deep enough or it was sheared off. Please send it to me so I can fix it. Fantastic |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 4:05:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The pin either wasn't drilled deep enough or it was sheared off. Please send it to me so I can fix it. That's classy Tom. Big props to you Sir. This!! well done sir! I like the way you do business 
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Posted: 6/11/2012 4:13:16 PM EDT
[#29]
sweet!
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Posted: 6/11/2012 5:11:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
The pin either wasn't drilled deep enough or it was sheared off. Please send it to me so I can fix it. That's why I own your stuff. 
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Posted: 6/11/2012 5:14:16 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I tried a new gunsmith here in town a few weeks ago. Asked him to remove a fh and install a shorty Dynacomp on my 16" middy. It came back the same way: not indexed properly. Thank god I didn't ask him to pin it. 
He insisted it could not be indexed properly with the supplied crush washer. I finally got it back indexed properly but with no washer installed. You paid somebody to screw on a muzzle device for you, Really?  Dude, we're in the middle of moving and my tools are in boxes some where. I didn't want to wait.
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Posted: 6/11/2012 5:14:33 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: The pin either wasn't drilled deep enough or it was sheared off. Please send it to me so I can fix it. I see Tom going above and beyond for people all the time. Hats off to you sir! |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 6:08:37 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I tried a new gunsmith here in town a few weeks ago. Asked him to remove a fh and install a shorty Dynacomp on my 16" middy. It came back the same way: not indexed properly. Thank god I didn't ask him to pin it.
He insisted it could not be indexed properly with the supplied crush washer. I finally got it back indexed properly but with no washer installed. You paid somebody to screw on a muzzle device for you, Really? He said it was his first build. Not everyone owns a vice and block in the early stages of BRD. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 6:15:50 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I tried a new gunsmith here in town a few weeks ago. Asked him to remove a fh and install a shorty Dynacomp on my 16" middy. It came back the same way: not indexed properly. Thank god I didn't ask him to pin it.
He insisted it could not be indexed properly with the supplied crush washer. I finally got it back indexed properly but with no washer installed. You paid somebody to screw on a muzzle device for you, Really? He said it was his first build. Not everyone owns a vice and block in the early stages of BRD. Nor a TIG welder. But I am glad that Tom is helping out again to a fellow arf.com member. |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 7:57:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
The pin either wasn't drilled deep enough or it was sheared off. Please send it to me so I can fix it. That is baddazz, you also have my future parts orders |
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Posted: 6/11/2012 8:33:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The poster who talked about using a lathe is talking about an old school method of timing things. By removing small amounts of metal from the rear of a muzzle brake, it will move the point where it is properly torqued clockwise. Same thing can be done by using different thickness shim washers. Thicker washers move it counter clockwise. That is how you would time a barrel that is threaded into a receiver, or...maybe even a muzzle device on a bolt gun, or some other type of rifle. That is NOT how it is done on an AR. Some devices do require you use shims, especially when using a suppressor. Using a lathe is an unnecessarily laborious way of achieving the same outcome. |
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Posted: 6/14/2012 4:21:33 AM EDT
[#37]
OP, what did you find out?
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Posted: 6/14/2012 6:04:08 AM EDT
[#38]
It is hard to find a good smith now a days. I took my double barrel 410 to a smith in town to fix a light primer strike on the 2nd barrel. He charged me $35 to fix it. Took the 410 to the range and now I'm getting light strikes on both barrels! The shells go off on the 2nd turn, once the primers have been hit, but WTF is that!
Just goes to show...1) you cant trust anyone and 2) C students run the world!!! |
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Posted: 6/14/2012 6:25:38 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
That's retarded. I don't know if I'd even trust him to fix it.  I wouldn't OP, take some good pics and email Steve @ ADCO Firearms, get a quote of the cost to have it fixed properly and have your gunsmith pay for it. This... |
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Posted: 6/14/2012 6:34:31 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The poster who talked about using a lathe is talking about an old school method of timing things. By removing small amounts of metal from the rear of a muzzle brake, it will move the point where it is properly torqued clockwise. Same thing can be done by using different thickness shim washers. Thicker washers move it counter clockwise. That is how you would time a barrel that is threaded into a receiver, or...maybe even a muzzle device on a bolt gun, or some other type of rifle. That is NOT how it is done on an AR. Some devices do require you use shims, especially when using a suppressor. Using a lathe is an unnecessarily laborious way of achieving the same outcome. Especially when a PWS shim kit is only ~$5. |
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Posted: 6/25/2012 2:22:23 PM EDT
[#41]
photos...
I just got home from picking it up 
I was nice enough to offer to sell the barrel to him, and he refused. I said "expect to be served, I'm taking you to small claims" I will be sending the barrel off tomorrow to have the comp cut off and for an actual gunsmith to assess the damage and certify that it is. Handed me the barrel with a smile on his face and said "here's your property, hope to see you in court" |
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Posted: 6/25/2012 2:25:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
photos... I just got home from picking it up http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/mkapture/1cbe222d.jpg http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/mkapture/45d8af4f.jpg I was nice enough to offer to sell the barrel to him, and he refused. I said "expect to be served, I'm taking you to small claims" I will be sending the barrel off tomorrow to have the comp cut off and for an actual gunsmith to assess the damage and certify that it is. Handed me the barrel with a smile on his face and said "here's your property, hope to see you in court" What a worthless piece of shit. Good luck in court, make him cry. |
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Posted: 6/25/2012 2:36:03 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
photos... I just got home from picking it up http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/mkapture/1cbe222d.jpg http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/mkapture/45d8af4f.jpg I was nice enough to offer to sell the barrel to him, and he refused. I said "expect to be served, I'm taking you to small claims" I will be sending the barrel off tomorrow to have the comp cut off and for an actual gunsmith to assess the damage and certify that it is. Handed me the barrel with a smile on his face and said "here's your property, hope to see you in court" Wow. That looks terrible... 
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Posted: 6/25/2012 2:38:35 PM EDT
[#44]
That looks terrible. Be sure to get some better pics of the botched job. Put your camera on macro setting to get some decent close up shots.
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Posted: 6/25/2012 2:40:09 PM EDT
[#45]
and I held off posting his name and his business to see how he made the situation better and if he in fact made an honest mistake, we are all human...., well, only to those on here in MI who didn't want to end up using his services.
When all said and done, every gun enthusiast here and on MichiganGunOwner form will know of this and who fcked this up. and how he handled it. |
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Posted: 6/25/2012 2:45:55 PM EDT
[#46]
That looks horrible!
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Posted: 6/25/2012 2:53:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
That looks horrible! yeah. I am more worried about damage to the barrel. first post was that he pinned and welded the comp on sideways. He torqued it into the proper position and from the look of it, used it as a drumstick...... on top of which he ordered and installed the wrong gas block and claims that by removing it will damage the barrel.... |
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Posted: 6/25/2012 3:13:33 PM EDT
[#48]
never mind, posted after reading only 1 page
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Posted: 6/25/2012 3:43:57 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
photos... I just got home from picking it up http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/mkapture/1cbe222d.jpg http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/mkapture/45d8af4f.jpg I was nice enough to offer to sell the barrel to him, and he refused. I said "expect to be served, I'm taking you to small claims" I will be sending the barrel off tomorrow to have the comp cut off and for an actual gunsmith to assess the damage and certify that it is. Handed me the barrel with a smile on his face and said "here's your property, hope to see you in court" Ugh. That is freaking amazing. Let us know the outcome. |
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Posted: 6/25/2012 4:13:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Man that sucks. I hope it works out for you.
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