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Posted: 5/5/2015 11:06:13 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mags are disposable. Buy them cheap and stack them deep. While I'm all for quality equipment, I think people often put too much thought and effort into things like magazines. |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 11:16:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. While I'm all for quality equipment, I think people often put too much thought and effort into things like magazines. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Mags are disposable. Buy them cheap and stack them deep. While I'm all for quality equipment, I think people often put too much thought and effort into things like magazines. This, I see no reason to pay for the newest super duper mag that costs $15 each when PMAGs or USGI are sub $10. |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 11:18:53 AM EDT
[#3]
Well so far man, I'm THOROUGHLY impressed with ETS --- durable, no cracks after 6 drops each from 6 feet onto baseplate and feedlips. And your 20 ft drop test was pretty impressive too. I ran over the ETS about 6 more times on my rough, graveled asphalt paved street at 15 MPG too, no issues.
Are you still offering the discount for AR15 members? If so can you post -- or if in violation of TOS -- can you IM me? They hold up great compared to PMags too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfO5SN_VUl4 I have nothing against Magpul, but I get a little sick of them acting like their mags are the most badass thing ever to hit market, when in fact, they are fairly fragile, unless you buy an extra $5 ranger plate for them. A little competition is a great thing IMO. Also, what happened with their October 14 lawsuit against you guys? |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 11:19:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. While I'm all for quality equipment, I think people often put too much thought and effort into things like magazines. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Mags are disposable. Buy them cheap and stack them deep. While I'm all for quality equipment, I think people often put too much thought and effort into things like magazines. I respectfully disagree. That's like saying your rifle is too high of quality, there is no such thing. Without a good, reliable magazine your gun is worthless. Makes sense to me to buy the best mag money can buy so you don't have to worry about your mag letting your rifle down. A gun is only as good as it's weakest link.... I always find it funny when guys will spend $2000 on a top of the line optic, then cheap out on something as important as a magazine. |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 11:30:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I respectfully disagree. That's like saying your rifle is too high of quality, there is no such thing. Without a good, reliable magazine your gun is worthless. Makes sense to me to buy the best mag money can buy so you don't have to worry about your mag letting your rifle down. A gun is only as good as it's weakest link.... I always find it funny when guys will spend $2000 on a top of the line optic, then cheap out on something as important as a magazine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mags are disposable. Buy them cheap and stack them deep. While I'm all for quality equipment, I think people often put too much thought and effort into things like magazines. I respectfully disagree. That's like saying your rifle is too high of quality, there is no such thing. Without a good, reliable magazine your gun is worthless. Makes sense to me to buy the best mag money can buy so you don't have to worry about your mag letting your rifle down. A gun is only as good as it's weakest link.... I always find it funny when guys will spend $2000 on a top of the line optic, then cheap out on something as important as a magazine. I see your point. The fact is, the magazines on the market today work fine. I've got magazines with thousands of rounds through them from various vendors. Simply put, under normal use, a magazine will last for a long time. A $2 spring and it'll go longer. Failures like these drop tests are kind of like mental masturbation to me. If I drop a full magazine on the deck, I'm going to check it for function and replace it with another $10 mag if it fails. If I'm in a gunfight, I'm going for another mag. I like what your company is doing. I think improving a product in a free market only benefits the customer. I also think you're attacking a problem that doesn't functionally exist. If I were having magazine failures with any regularity, I'd be jumping on your bandwagon like pigs in shit. I'm not having magazine failures. I don't suspect others are either, and I use my shit HARD.  |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 11:56:39 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have pretty good luck not dropping loaded mags feed lip first onto concrete. Apparently in other locales it's an epidemic. +1 |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 12:06:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see your point. The fact is, the magazines on the market today work fine. I've got magazines with thousands of rounds through them from various vendors. Simply put, under normal use, a magazine will last for a long time. A $2 spring and it'll go longer. Failures like these drop tests are kind of like mental masturbation to me. If I drop a full magazine on the deck, I'm going to check it for function and replace it with another $10 mag if it fails. If I'm in a gunfight, I'm going for another mag. I like what your company is doing. I think improving a product in a free market only benefits the customer. I also think you're attacking a problem that doesn't functionally exist. If I were having magazine failures with any regularity, I'd be jumping on your bandwagon like pigs in shit. I'm not having magazine failures. I don't suspect others are either, and I use my shit HARD. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GZcc96pZLq4/UtapLAIFaaI/AAAAAAAAPG4/oFqoN85_us4/s960/1488214_622163854497092_1303982519_n.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mags are disposable. Buy them cheap and stack them deep. While I'm all for quality equipment, I think people often put too much thought and effort into things like magazines. I respectfully disagree. That's like saying your rifle is too high of quality, there is no such thing. Without a good, reliable magazine your gun is worthless. Makes sense to me to buy the best mag money can buy so you don't have to worry about your mag letting your rifle down. A gun is only as good as it's weakest link.... I always find it funny when guys will spend $2000 on a top of the line optic, then cheap out on something as important as a magazine. I see your point. The fact is, the magazines on the market today work fine. I've got magazines with thousands of rounds through them from various vendors. Simply put, under normal use, a magazine will last for a long time. A $2 spring and it'll go longer. Failures like these drop tests are kind of like mental masturbation to me. If I drop a full magazine on the deck, I'm going to check it for function and replace it with another $10 mag if it fails. If I'm in a gunfight, I'm going for another mag. I like what your company is doing. I think improving a product in a free market only benefits the customer. I also think you're attacking a problem that doesn't functionally exist. If I were having magazine failures with any regularity, I'd be jumping on your bandwagon like pigs in shit. I'm not having magazine failures. I don't suspect others are either, and I use my shit HARD. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GZcc96pZLq4/UtapLAIFaaI/AAAAAAAAPG4/oFqoN85_us4/s960/1488214_622163854497092_1303982519_n.jpg I totally understand where you are coming from. And I agree with what you are saying. There is nothing wrong with a good GI mag, they have worked for decades. The only point I am speaking to is that mags are disposable. I know GI mags are disposable because once they are damaged there is no fixing them (most of the time) so they need to be replaced. GI mags get damaged and need to be replaced enough that we have sayings like "mags are disposable, buy them cheap and stack them deep". And with that in mind, we set a goal of creating a mag that won't need to be replaced. I know a GI mag could literally go forever sitting at a gun range type environment. but how many mags need to be replaced that in actual service? Tons, literally. I think your sentence right here sums it up... Failures like these drop tests are kind of like mental masturbation to me. If I drop a full magazine on the deck, I'm going to check it for function and replace it with another $10 mag if it fails. If I'm in a gunfight, I'm going for another mag. With our mag you will never have to worry about something like dropping it on the deck, affecting it's function. We made these mags go so far above what it needs to endure so that should you ever find yourself in an actual gun fight you won't have to worry about your mag working, or being damaged. If you drop our mag you can pick it up with 100% certainty that it wasn't damaged and it will work. So while our mags may cost a few bucks more than a GI mag, that peace of mind and know you won't need to ever replace it, is worth the extra cost. |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 12:09:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With our mag you will never have to worry about something like dropping it on the deck, affecting it's function. We made these mags go so far above what it needs to endure so that should you ever find yourself in an actual gun fight you won't have to worry about your mag working, or being damaged. If you drop our mag you can pick it up with 100% certainty that it wasn't damaged and it will work. So while our mags may cost a few bucks more than a GI mag, that peace of mind and know you won't need to ever replace it, is worth the extra cost. Do your springs ever wear out?  Honestly I wouldn't mind paying a few extra bucks for your mags. I just don't have a need at this point. |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 12:15:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do your springs ever wear out?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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With our mag you will never have to worry about something like dropping it on the deck, affecting it's function. We made these mags go so far above what it needs to endure so that should you ever find yourself in an actual gun fight you won't have to worry about your mag working, or being damaged. If you drop our mag you can pick it up with 100% certainty that it wasn't damaged and it will work. So while our mags may cost a few bucks more than a GI mag, that peace of mind and know you won't need to ever replace it, is worth the extra cost. Do your springs ever wear out?
Yes, after your rifle wears out. 
All joking aside, the service life for these springs is astounding. And with our warranty, if you actually shoot enough rounds through one of our mags to break the spring, we will replace that spring for you. |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 1:10:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, what happened with their October 14 lawsuit against you guys? +1 I thought I read somewhere you had to change something on the follower or something like that.....Inquiring minds what to know....... |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 1:16:15 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1 I thought I read somewhere you had to change something on the follower or something like that.....Inquiring minds what to know....... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, what happened with their October 14 lawsuit against you guys? +1 I thought I read somewhere you had to change something on the follower or something like that.....Inquiring minds what to know....... We agreed to remove the back leg on our follower. So it's settled. When we designed our mag we designed all of the anti-tilt functionality in the front leg. The back leg was simply there to act as a spring guide. Since we also have a spring guide on the base plate insert it was redundant. So removing the back leg from the follower had zero impact on the function of our magazine. This change was put into production back in November, so every mag sold since then has been of the new configuration. Sorry I didn't answer this sooner, I must have missed it when DelTonGuy asked it... |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 1:19:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I respectfully disagree. That's like saying your rifle is too high of quality, there is no such thing. Without a good, reliable magazine your gun is worthless. Makes sense to me to buy the best mag money can buy so you don't have to worry about your mag letting your rifle down. A gun is only as good as it's weakest link.... I always find it funny when guys will spend $2000 on a top of the line optic, then cheap out on something as important as a magazine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mags are disposable. Buy them cheap and stack them deep. While I'm all for quality equipment, I think people often put too much thought and effort into things like magazines. I respectfully disagree. That's like saying your rifle is too high of quality, there is no such thing. Without a good, reliable magazine your gun is worthless. Makes sense to me to buy the best mag money can buy so you don't have to worry about your mag letting your rifle down. A gun is only as good as it's weakest link.... I always find it funny when guys will spend $2000 on a top of the line optic, then cheap out on something as important as a magazine. I agree but disagree (like John Kerry). Once a magazine gets so good there is less and less room for improvement. People should worry more about marksmanship and hitting their target. The weakest link of a firearm is far and away the shooter. Nothing else comes close. Super duper magazines don't win wars or keep people alive, as much emphasis as people here put on magazines in the big picture they simply aren't that important. |
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Posted: 5/5/2015 2:00:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree but disagree (like John Kerry). Once a magazine gets so good there is less and less room for improvement. People should worry more about marksmanship and hitting their target. The weakest link of a firearm is far and away the shooter. Nothing else comes close. Super duper magazines don't win wars or keep people alive, as much emphasis as people here put on magazines in the big picture they simply aren't that important. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mags are disposable. Buy them cheap and stack them deep. While I'm all for quality equipment, I think people often put too much thought and effort into things like magazines. I respectfully disagree. That's like saying your rifle is too high of quality, there is no such thing. Without a good, reliable magazine your gun is worthless. Makes sense to me to buy the best mag money can buy so you don't have to worry about your mag letting your rifle down. A gun is only as good as it's weakest link.... I always find it funny when guys will spend $2000 on a top of the line optic, then cheap out on something as important as a magazine. I agree but disagree (like John Kerry). Once a magazine gets so good there is less and less room for improvement. People should worry more about marksmanship and hitting their target. The weakest link of a firearm is far and away the shooter. Nothing else comes close. Super duper magazines don't win wars or keep people alive, as much emphasis as people here put on magazines in the big picture they simply aren't that important. You are absolutely right. But our job is making strong reliable gear for guys. It's someone else's job to train them. We just want to make sure our magazine is not going to let someone down when they need it most. And to your statement that Once a magazine gets so good there is less and less room for improvement. |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 1:17:29 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think PMAGS are as bomb-proof as The Hive Mind seems to think. On drop tests, fully loaded from shoulder height, 3/5 of the Gen M3s developed splits on the spine on the first drop. Those same three developed cracks of about 1.5 inch long each on the second drop. Those three were unable to hold more than 20 rounds each - they did fire just fine. However, the USGIs had no issues. Bottom line, to me, is that all mags are damaged by drops. To me, it's wash whether to use a USGI tan follower with ranger plate or a pmag, for about the same price. When you take into account how the pmags were damaged you would need to add a ranger plate to them to protect them, which would widen the price gap. Doesn't seem worth the extra $ to me. I don't know what the "Hive Mind" is. We do have about 7 years of the GWOT (Global War On Terror) in which the PMag has been fielded in the millions. This has given us a little insight into how to build a combat effective magazine, some of this we addressed on page one of this thread. If you have not read the PMag design concepts (on page one) it basically says functionally reliability under all conditions is the priority of the PMag. Even now with the introduction of M855A1 it is publicly acknowledged (by those running it) that the only magazine that can reliability run M855A1 without accelerated damage to the rifle, is the PMag M3. It is our view that this reliability comes from specific geometry that is consistently maintained by high "tensile" strength material. Other magazine manufactures gain "impact" strength by making their material softer (losing tensile strength). On impact resistance the PMag M3 already exceeds the venerable USGI by several fold in all tests and is consistently more reliable, especially after the magazines have been combat deployed for a few weeks. |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 1:45:57 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And when it comes to feeding reliability of a well made GI mag there is not a lot of room for improvement with regards to feeding, but there is still a LOT of room for improvement in the durability department for USGI mags, and that is what we have done. Same feeding reliability, or even a little better, and MUCH stronger as far as durability goes. The early USGI magazines (pre 1994) had a dismal mean failure rate of approximately 3000 rounds in the M16A2. The green followers got it up to approximately 5000 rounds but it took a comprehensive follower redesign (first fielded in the form of the Magpul Enhanced Self Leveling Follower -ESLF and now in the issue brown followers) to get the USGI up to a 10,000 round mean failure point. Unfortunately these mean failure rates were only this good in the form of unissued mags in the lab (and limited garrison use such as the rifle range). In actual combat deployments the reliability drops considerably with the elements of dust, magazine damage, and weapon maintenance comes into play. Early on in Afghanistan there were two specific battles, Wanat and Kamdesh, that starkly illustrated the differences between weapon reliability of USGIs vs PMags in a combat environment of similar size and format. |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 12:13:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
did a drop test today: 3 x 30 round Brownells Usgi mags with magpul followers, fully loaded. Three 30 round gen m3 pmags, fully loaded. Dropped each mag from a feed lips down position to impact on the feed lips, from 5 feet onto concrete, three times each. The Brownells had their feed lips bent terribly. One of the three, I could only unload 9 rounds by hand, the feed lips were so deformed the rounds couldn't be pushed out. The second of the three, I was totally unable to push any rounds out at all. The third mag let me push all thirty rounds out but it was very difficult. None of them Could be reloaded by hand or by stripper clips. All three of the magpuls I tested developed serious cracks after the drops, the shortest being 1.5 cm long, and the longe being 5cm. By the third drop, they were spitting out 6-8 rounds each. After testing, I was able To easily unload and reload each of the PMAGS. So while damaged, it's likely they would still function at least long enough until the patrol or your shift would be over. Bottom line: dropping mags onto very surfaces will fuck up your mag, whether USGI or PMAG. Your test results do not mimic mine at all. I have tested Brownell's USGI, Magpuls, and others. I have dropped them onto concrete, and worse, from 5 ft. Brownell's feedlips do not deform hardly at all, definitely no where close to as you describe. Gen 3 pmags aren't phased either. Gen 2s can develop a small crack after a couple drops that will enlarge with subsequent drops. Granted the Brownell's mags I tested were the legit tan follower USGI ones, but the commercial produced ones shouldn't be that much off. |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 2:21:33 PM EDT
[#17]
Yours were loaded right?
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Posted: 5/6/2015 2:28:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryEarly on in Afghanistan there were two specific battles, Wanat and Kamdesh, that starkly illustrated the differences between weapon reliability of USGIs vs PMags in a combat environment of similar size and format. Can you elaborate? Would love to hear more details on that! |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 11:32:19 PM EDT
[#19]
This thread interests me. I have a desire go go home and **attempt** to destroy a few mags.
FOR SCIENCE!!! |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 12:35:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yours were loaded right? Fully. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 7:57:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have pretty good luck not dropping loaded mags feed lip first onto concrete. Apparently in other locales it's an epidemic. Yep, me too. Over the course of nearly 20 years and many thousands of rounds in hunting and 3 gun competition, this has never been an issue with any of my AR mags. The fact that some people seem to fret over such things, especially when mags are basically disposable, is almost amusing. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 8:35:08 AM EDT
[#22]
I agree with the above. Mags are disposable. My issue with PMAGs is that they have a relatively short life, not that they break from dropping. Given how long they last in my experience and from what I've seen with my own eyes I don't think they are the best value out there and they certainly wouldn't be my first choice to expect a lifetime of use from if for some reason magazines become hard or impossible to aquire in the future. I have had and seen with my own eyes broken feed lips, cracked spines, wallowed out mag catch pockets, and insides deformed from rounds moving under recoil to the point that the follower hangs up. I have never seen a problem with their followers though and highly recommend them.
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Posted: 5/7/2015 8:40:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, me too. Over the course of nearly 20 years and many thousands of rounds in hunting and 3 gun competition, this has never been an issue with any of my AR mags. The fact that some people seem to fret over such things, especially when mags are basically disposable, is almost amusing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have pretty good luck not dropping loaded mags feed lip first onto concrete. Apparently in other locales it's an epidemic. Yep, me too. Over the course of nearly 20 years and many thousands of rounds in hunting and 3 gun competition, this has never been an issue with any of my AR mags. The fact that some people seem to fret over such things, especially when mags are basically disposable, is almost amusing. I have on a couple occasions unintentionally dropped loaded GI mags bottom first on concrete/rocks and had them puke their guts out. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 6:30:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Gen 3 Pmags are pretty fragile when cold. I dropped one twice as described in magpul video and on drop #2 it cracked down the back and lay spasming (literally) as round after round shot out of it. The Lancer l5awm did better but the lips bent a hair. The HK polymer mag took over half a dozen drops and asked for more. Nothing at all wrong with it except some abrasion on the external of the feed lips from the concrete.
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Posted: 5/7/2015 6:55:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gen 3 Pmags are pretty fragile when cold. I dropped one twice as described in magpul video and on drop #2 it cracked down the back and lay spasming (literally) as round after round shot out of it. The Lancer l5awm did better but the lips bent a hair. The HK polymer mag took over half a dozen drops and asked for more. Nothing at all wrong with it except some abrasion on the external of the feed lips from the concrete. Just how cold are we talking here? How long were they sitting out in the cold for? Have a link to the HK mag, I am not familiar with it? Did you get a chance to try the Brownell's tan follower USGI mags? How did the G2 Pmags compare to the G3? |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 6:56:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Yeah. I don't believe Magpuls bullshit, I hate their propaganda spin team and they try to bully the new guys.
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Posted: 5/7/2015 6:58:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. I don't believe Magpuls bullshit, I hate their propaganda spin team and they try to bully the new guys. lol |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 8:42:30 PM EDT
[#28]
My PMAGS have always served me well. As have my Lancers and most of my usgi mags.
I think some of you go a bit overboard with looking for reasons to bash Magpul. If you don't like em, don't buy em. Until they start failing me, I'll continue to purchase them when I find a good deal. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 9:02:08 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah. I don't believe Magpuls bullshit, I hate their propaganda spin team and they try to bully the new guys. Been using magpuls since they came out. Never had an issue. Then again I use lots of different mags. Not really a brand-loyal kinda guy. Magpuls are legit good mags though. |
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Posted: 5/8/2015 5:52:54 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. I don't believe Magpuls bullshit, I hate their propaganda spin team and they try to bully the new guys. They (magpul) make a good magazine at a good price. The only BS is someone who says otherwise. |
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Posted: 5/8/2015 9:53:38 AM EDT
[#31]
So the bottom line question here (before this thread gets locked as I predict it soon will):is a rugged and reliable magazine enough, or does a magazine have to be unbreakable??
BTW, since military use has been discussed, from my viewpoint 98-99% M4's I see daily have USGI mags in the well............... |
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Posted: 5/8/2015 11:38:52 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the bottom line question here (before this thread gets locked as I predict it soon will):is a rugged and reliable magazine enough, or does a magazine have to be unbreakable?? BTW, since military use has been discussed, from my viewpoint 98-99% M4's I see daily have USGI mags in the well............... That's because it's what the military issues. Doesn't in any way mean it's the best magazine out there. And as far as your question about being rugged and reliable...well I guess that depends on your definition of rugged. I consider a magazine breaking or being rendered non-funtional from a single drop to be not very rugged. Do magazines have to be unbreakable? No, but the argument that a USGI mag has gotten the job done in the past is not a valid argument against new technology that improves the platform. With that mindset, from now until the end of time there should be no improvements made to the M4, it's good enough....seems like flawed logic to me. And just to be clear, I'm not saying USGI mags need to be replaced right away because they are bad. I am saying there is a better option and when the time comes that you need more mags, you should take a hard look at our mag. Because in the end, it will probably cost less than a USGI mag when you factor in the life span of the mag. |
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Posted: 5/8/2015 11:55:18 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just how cold are we talking here? How long were they sitting out in the cold for? Have a link to the HK mag, I am not familiar with it? Did you get a chance to try the Brownell's tan follower USGI mags? How did the G2 Pmags compare to the G3? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gen 3 Pmags are pretty fragile when cold. I dropped one twice as described in magpul video and on drop #2 it cracked down the back and lay spasming (literally) as round after round shot out of it. The Lancer l5awm did better but the lips bent a hair. The HK polymer mag took over half a dozen drops and asked for more. Nothing at all wrong with it except some abrasion on the external of the feed lips from the concrete. Just how cold are we talking here? How long were they sitting out in the cold for? Have a link to the HK mag, I am not familiar with it? Did you get a chance to try the Brownell's tan follower USGI mags? How did the G2 Pmags compare to the G3? I don't recall testing the g2. My freezer at around 12 to 16 degrees for an hour or so. It was hot in there and I later turned it to 2 to 8. I did not test any aluminum mags. https://us.hkwebshop.com/HKWebShop/show/byItemID/10060//279 |
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Posted: 5/8/2015 11:57:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. I don't believe Magpuls bullshit, I hate their propaganda spin team and they try to bully the new guys. I don't feel that way. Magpul worked hard and does have a great product. They are legitimately protecting their IP. My experience with their gen 3 mag was just one mag, but yes, I did learn that they aren't quite as tough as one might think until tested by ones self. Moral ? Be your own expert. Do it yourself or take it with a bucket of salt. |
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Posted: 5/8/2015 4:07:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's because it's what the military issues. Doesn't in any way mean it's the best magazine out there. . Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So the bottom line question here (before this thread gets locked as I predict it soon will):is a rugged and reliable magazine enough, or does a magazine have to be unbreakable?? BTW, since military use has been discussed, from my viewpoint 98-99% M4's I see daily have USGI mags in the well............... That's because it's what the military issues. Doesn't in any way mean it's the best magazine out there. . I get it, I really do  Yes they are issued so that is what most people use. There are those here that would like you to think that everyone in the military immediately throws out the USGI magazines and replaces them with aftermarket. Anything other than USGI is a tiny percentage of what is in use. Slings, holsters, and optics are probably the most popular aftermarket toys among combat units. I totally agree with the statement that because something is used does not mean it is better. I have seen TAPCO magazines used in Afghanistan.....
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Posted: 5/8/2015 4:12:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have about 100 pmags, and only one, a foliage green one, is out of its package because it matches my AR and looks cool in pictures. I use USGI mags exclusively for all my shooting. I figure if I drop one and bend a feed lip, I might be able to use my multitool to make it serviceable again. Can't do that with a cracked plastic feed lip. Pmags for the neckbeard stash, USGI mags for actual use.  Spot on, Just put on a carbine course, pmags were spitting 2-3 rounds everytime their guns cycled, swelled badly, issue mags were GTG. Sorry magpul but I think you will be getting those mags back. |
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Posted: 5/8/2015 4:14:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because in the end, it will probably cost less than a USGI mag when you factor in the life span of the mag. Maybe, maybe not We have heard this before I suspect many more USGI magazines are "lost" than are destroyed or damaged. My understanding is for the military to adopt something it not only has to be better, but it has to be substantially better. Ever hear of the SPIW?
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Posted: 5/8/2015 5:32:45 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe, maybe not We have heard this before I suspect many more USGI magazines are "lost" than are destroyed or damaged. My understanding is for the military to adopt something it not only has to be better, but it has to be substantially better. Ever hear of the SPIW?Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Because in the end, it will probably cost less than a USGI mag when you factor in the life span of the mag. Maybe, maybe not We have heard this before I suspect many more USGI magazines are "lost" than are destroyed or damaged. My understanding is for the military to adopt something it not only has to be better, but it has to be substantially better. Ever hear of the SPIW?I get where you are coming from. And that will be the real test over time, is how much cost savings are to be had. If it's only 5-10%, it might not be worth their trouble. If it's more, that might be a different story. I also agree with the lost part, a lot of mags get lost. |
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Posted: 5/8/2015 10:44:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Magpul Pmags were never the magical mags. Why? They leave room for improvement. How soon will the Gen 4 version of this mag will come out? Its supposed to be better than the existing mags, so the mags they put out in the market is not their best mag yet, just sub par and good enough.
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Posted: 5/9/2015 5:20:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Magpul Pmags were never the magical mags. Why? They leave room for improvement. How soon will the Gen 4 version of this mag will come out? Its supposed to be better than the existing mags, so the mags they put out in the market is not their best mag yet, just sub par and good enough. Where do people come up with this crap? |
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Posted: 5/9/2015 6:59:07 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Magpul Pmags were never the magical mags. Why? They leave room for improvement. How soon will the Gen 4 version of this mag will come out? Its supposed to be better than the existing mags, so the mags they put out in the market is not their best mag yet, just sub par and good enough. Not a Magpul fanboi, but WTF? Magpul put out a magazine originally that was the best they knew how to make at a specific price point. Over time, they learn, adapt, test, adjust, and find a way to improve on what they originally did (hence, Gen2). Once that mag was fielded, they again took feedback, researched, tested, and made more improvements (hence, Gen3). What would you have them do? The original Pmag was released in 2007. 8 years later they've made some improvements. Would you have had them wait those 8 years not producing anything until they had the Gen3? Dang. As a manufacturing engineer, NOTHING is ever as good as it's going to get on the first try. You therefore have two choices if you don't like change - live with the original, or accept 10 year development cycles for something as simple as a magazine. And be prepared to pay a couple hundred dollars per mag to soak the R&D costs.... I've been using Pmags since their first release. I've got a couple of early ones that have cracked in back below the cutout. I could probably hit Magpul up for a replacement, but why? Those mags saw a ton of use as I was just getting into AR's and were my 3-gun competition mags. They're now in the range bag where a FTF won't hurt me, and will actually give me some practice clearing jams. Haven't had it jam yet. Pmags aren't magic. But IMHO they have some advantages over USGI, are readily available, come in a variety of configurations (LOVE the 40 rounders) and inexpensive enough to keep a significant number on hand. |
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Posted: 5/10/2015 9:21:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah. I don't believe Magpuls bullshit, I hate their propaganda spin team and they try to bully the new guys. A company needs to protect their intellectual properties and patents |
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Posted: 5/10/2015 9:29:11 AM EDT
[#43]
The title of the OP suggest an unbiased intention IMO.
With as hard as I run my gear (never intentionally abusive) I have never had these failures, not once. Yes, I have dropped loaded mags but I can't think of a reason to hold them at shoulder's height loaded and drop them straight down. Since that has never happened to me how does that become the determining factor in dependability??? To say I don't baby my Pmags both G2 and G3 is an understatement and I have never once had a failure so excuse me me if an irrelevant test that has no comparability to real life does not become the determining factor in what mags I use. We are fortunate to have some fine mags available and they are all very good to near perfect particularly Magpul and Lancer (IMO, others may like something else) ETS seems to be the third near perfect one on this list (I have not tried them but all feedback suggest this) Buy what you like. I doubt you will find much to complain about. If you want to trash any of them, well, find a test that has no bearing on real use and slant it the way you want and post. Just don't do that and expect much respect |
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Posted: 5/10/2015 4:20:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Next test : Are they microwave safe and which mag is a better potato peeler ???
(lol) |
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Posted: 5/10/2015 6:22:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Next test : Are they microwave safe and which mag is a better potato peeler ??? (lol) Maybe Will it Blend? |
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Posted: 5/10/2015 8:38:00 PM EDT
[#46]
I participated in an AR class at Assymetric Solutions about a month ago and my friend that took the class with me had an FDE Magpul mag (gen2) follower get stuck multiple times before he trashed it (I had no issues with mine). I had to remove the floor plate to get it unstuck. The instructor gave his opinion on Pmags and it wasn't a glowing endorsement.
 I told him to send it to MAGPUL and they would replace it. I use Magpul, Lancer, BCM, PSA, Brownell's, Tango Down and some d&H branded mags and no issues have been had with any of mine.
As a side, same buddy's new Daniel Defense had a double feed and failure to extract as well(maybe mag related?). 
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Posted: 5/10/2015 11:28:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Someone already said it, but mags are disposable and need to be thought of this way.
Where I come from, you drop a loaded mag like that, visible damage or not, it either gets chucked on cautious principle or it goes deep in gear as a "For emergency use only". Totally untrustworthy regardless of type or maker... |
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Posted: 5/11/2015 12:47:13 AM EDT
[#48]
I am refreshed by the fact that not once in this thread anyone spoke of driving over the magazines with a big ol pickup truck!
Mags are a consumable... take care not to drop your shit... inspect each magazine and round loaded into the magazines... and ALWAYS have more than they tell you you need! |
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Posted: 5/12/2015 9:48:45 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A company needs to protect their intellectual properties and patents Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah. I don't believe Magpuls bullshit, I hate their propaganda spin team and they try to bully the new guys. A company needs to protect their intellectual properties and patents I don't think his post is about patent lawsuits...... |
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Posted: 5/13/2015 6:36:10 PM EDT
[#50]
My biggest gripe is that they are so addictive. Every time I see mags on sale, I have to buy some. It is like a "catcher in the rye" addiction/impulse. I have many different mags and have used Magpul, Okay, Colt, etc. over the years and all have served me well. Right now they are so inexpensive, I don't see why we worry about this way we do. They are meant to be replaced. Just my 2 cents.
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