Picked up new LMT SPM16 please help... ***Update with pics*** - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Picked up new LMT SPM16 please help... ***Update with pics*** (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 8/26/2009 3:55:58 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The staking on my 6920 castle nut was worse.

Uh, not really, the top one is correct. The other one looks a little light.

The metal was displaced down, and only barely into the notch at all.

ETA: Glad to know LMT took care of you OP.

Posted: 8/26/2009 5:54:23 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
I'm not part of the "fit and finish" crowd but that looks like shit. I could handle the scratches but when you consider the overall quality and amount of mistakes on that rifle it adds up to

very poor QC. The castle nut staking is a complete joke and I'm glad that LMT decided to stop making MIM keys that crack during staking. Good to hear that they took care of you though.

That is not what I was told by Gene Swanson a couple days ago. Sent an e-mail explaining all the issues I have on my LMT products. Asked for a new bot carrier with a GI key. Got this response:

It sounds as if you are responding to an email that we had sent. If you are asking for a chrome lined gas key, we no longer manufacture them.

Gene Swanson

That reply was sent to me on August 24th.

Posted: 8/26/2009 6:10:02 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm not part of the "fit and finish" crowd but that looks like shit. I could handle the scratches but when you consider the overall quality and amount of mistakes on that rifle it adds up to

very poor QC. The castle nut staking is a complete joke and I'm glad that LMT decided to stop making MIM keys that crack during staking. Good to hear that they took care of you though.

That is not what I was told by Gene Swanson a couple days ago. Sent an e-mail explaining all the issues I have on my LMT products. Asked for a new bot carrier with a GI key. Got this response:

It sounds as if you are responding to an email that we had sent. If you are asking for a chrome lined gas key, we no longer manufacture them.

Gene Swanson

That reply was sent to me on August 24th.

LMT is not making a USGI key, as they are not chromelined. They use Melonite instead. However, all recent reports say that the most recent keys do not have the MIM gate mark and are not cracked at the staking points.

Posted: 8/27/2009 8:57:59 PM EDT

[#4]

I want to update everyone on my situation with the rifle exchange.

Picked up my new rifle this Monday. I tore it town yesterday to start cleaning it so I can fire it this weekend. The new rifle looks better than the old one, especially the bolt carrier.

However inspecting it more I noticed a few things. Gas key appears to be MIM. Staking has cracks in it as you can see. Also looking at the mouth of the gas key it looks like it is thinning on the bottom side of it especially on the bottom left and right of the circle. You can see where the thinning is as well where the metal is caving in a little. Can that cause any issues later? I was really disappointed to see the same cracking on the staking and now these areas on the gas key is thin and caving in. Should I be concerned?

You can see by the pictures it looks like the pivot pin holes were re-drilled and not anodized. Is that area more prone to wear faster due to no anodizing?

After posting this thread and getting some responses I started to prepare myself for a new rifle, I told myself not to expect it to be perfect even though I spent that much on a base ar15. What do you guys think?

Posted: 8/28/2009 2:08:36 AM EDT

[#5]

That is what they sent as a replacement?!

Wow.

Posted: 8/28/2009 2:36:50 AM EDT

[#6]

I would want a complete refund, and stay as far away from LMT as possible in the future.

I imagine that the replacenent rifle was scrutinized by their QC to make sure that you would be happy with it,
and they still failed miserably.

I would rather have a vulcan than that BS.

Posted: 8/28/2009 3:07:19 AM EDT

[#7]

If it were me, I'd start thinking someone was playing me for a fool. The LMT defenders will defend them because "it's the function that matters," but I'd get a refund and buy something else. IMO the things you encountered do affect function - reliability and longevity are part of function. Too careless of LMT to inspire confidence in the rifles you received. Besides yu can gt a better rifle nowadays for what you bad for that junk, with a few hundred left for upgrades.

Return for refund.

Posted: 8/28/2009 3:34:10 AM EDT

[#8]

WTF MATE!?!?

ARFcom told me LMT was one of the best AR's you could own.....

Posted: 8/28/2009 9:03:37 AM EDT

[#9]

You need to demand a refund. That's BS....

Posted: 8/28/2009 9:49:49 AM EDT

[#10]

WTF?!?!?
I've never seen a key that poor quality. It's actually something I wouldn't even attempt to shoot with. Looks like it's ready to shatter.

Those unfinished pin holes are just utterly ridiculous. It almost looks like they spray pained by the pivot pin hole as the finish is different than the rest of the lower.

Unacceptable and inexcusable, even more so a second time around.

Posted: 8/28/2009 9:52:17 AM EDT

[#11]

Wow.
Stellar QC, and superb follow-up CS

Get refund, find new manufacturer.

Posted: 8/28/2009 1:05:09 PM EDT

[#12]

Wow.. I love my LMT stuff and luckily I've never got anything that looked anything close to that.

That's just flat out ridiculous. Completely unacceptable.

The gas key staking doesn't bother me as much as the buggerd-up end of the key.
The drilled out pivot pin holes are typical (at least from what I've seen).
Lastly, what the hell happened to your lower in that last pic? That's what really bothers me.

Not to mention the castle nut staking on your initial post is REALLY disappointing.

I wonder if Gene isn't passing this information through to his management...? Maybe you need a new communication channel.

LMT needs to wake up.. if this keeps happening I'll take my business elsewhere... and I'm sure others will too.

Posted: 8/28/2009 1:21:29 PM EDT

[#13]

My LMT upper and lower were very good quality as far as I could tell. If it wasn't for this website I would not have known about the MIM gas key, at first it bothered me however the S.O.B runs and have had no issues with it. Don't think anyone else has either that I know. However your rifles definately have issues that need to be resolved. Future builds that I was considering using LMT, might not if their QC suffers.

Posted: 8/28/2009 10:35:20 PM EDT

[#14]

Yeah I'm still very disappointed with how this has turned out. I have heard a lot of good things about LMT and I wanted to end up with one. However after going through two rifles back to back with obvious qc issues I decided to look for a different manufacturer. Spoke to Mike at Rainier Arms this morning and told him how unsatisfied I am with my purchase. He gave me two options, see if LMT will directly take care of me or send it back in for a full refund minus transfer fees and shipping fees. I took the refund route and sent the package off today. I'm glad that I was able to get my money back but at the same time I was sad to send the firearm off... I know it's stupid considering the workmanship issues I had with both rifles.

On that note as soon as I get my refund I am off to look for another rifle... other than LMT. Any recommendations? I have a local dealer here with Sabre Defense and Colts in stock just to name a couple that I might want to look at. Any suggestions would be great. I want something with 1/7 twist barrel for sure since I already have a 1/9. I will be shooting this rifle as much as 5k rounds or more per year. I definitely want quality and reliability.

Posted: 8/28/2009 10:57:01 PM EDT

[#15]

Get a Colt, or look at a Noveske.

Posted: 8/29/2009 6:08:05 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Yeah I'm still very disappointed with how this has turned out. I have heard a lot of good things about LMT and I wanted to end up with one. However after going through two rifles back to back with obvious qc issues I decided to look for a different manufacturer. Spoke to Mike at Rainier Arms this morning and told him how unsatisfied I am with my purchase. He gave me two options, see if LMT will directly take care of me or send it back in for a full refund minus transfer fees and shipping fees. I took the refund route and sent the package off today. I'm glad that I was able to get my money back but at the same time I was sad to send the firearm off... I know it's stupid considering the workmanship issues I had with both rifles.

On that note as soon as I get my refund I am off to look for another rifle... other than LMT. Any recommendations? I have a local dealer here with Sabre Defense and Colts in stock just to name a couple that I might want to look at. Any suggestions would be great. I want something with 1/7 twist barrel for sure since I already have a 1/9. I will be shooting this rifle as much as 5k rounds or more per year. I definitely want quality and reliability.

Sorry you had so many problems with LMT. I have several and I really like them.

With that said––I'd jump on Bravocompanyusa.com and grab their new hammer forged barrel upper! Then contact Denny/GTS or another authorized retailer and get a BCM lower to match.

Posted: 8/29/2009 8:56:09 AM EDT

[#17]

My 2-year-old LMT makes all pics above look like they were built by Century in comparison. Shameful.

Posted: 8/29/2009 9:09:09 AM EDT

[#18]

Wow, I'll be staying away from LMT in the future.

Posted: 8/29/2009 9:19:42 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Wow, I'll be staying away from LMT in the future.

Posted: 8/29/2009 9:36:28 AM EDT

[#20]

JS308 and others, listen carefully...

STOP BEING A JERK IN TECH, ABIDE BY THE CODE OF CONDUCT OR YOUR GETTING A WARNING, LAST NOTICE.

CALLING PEOPLE MORONS OR ACTING LIKE THIS IS GD IS GOING TO BE A SURE WAY FOR A WARING FROM ME AND BE RECOMMENDED TO BE LOCKED OUT OF TECH.

MY WORD, COUNTS.

WAKE UP AND PLAY RIGHT.

Posted: 8/29/2009 9:46:57 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Wow, I'll be staying away from LMT in the future.

Same here.

I was deciding LMT upper or BCM. Thanks god i went with BCM.

Posted: 8/29/2009 9:57:53 AM EDT

[#22]

wow, that sucks OP. Get a refund and look at Colt, Noveske, BCM or Sabre.

LMT WTF?

Posted: 8/29/2009 9:57:58 AM EDT

[#23]

double

Posted: 8/29/2009 10:45:40 AM EDT

[#24]

LMT..... the new Century???

Posted: 8/29/2009 10:57:45 AM EDT

[#25]

I've been waiting since Nov 3, 08 for my LMT CQB MRP Defender Piston. Just found out it's in and plan on picking it up Monday. You've got me worried now.

Posted: 8/29/2009 11:20:55 AM EDT

[#26]

wow, is lmt trying to run itself out of biz? like others have posted, what is w/ the rear takedown pin area. i could handle this stuff if i paid $600 for the rifle, but you didn't. i would request a full refund and pick up 6920 or build a bcm - hell, get a bcm 16" middy ss upper w/ either a dd or larue rail and then wait for a bcm bcg - get a new lower when you have the time to build one yourself.

really sad to hear this about lmt, was going to go lmt next but will probably just buy more ammo or get into reloading

Posted: 8/29/2009 2:52:32 PM EDT

[#27]

Hey packinkimber45, you started this thread with the following:

"Hello everyone. After purchasing my first ar which is a stag arms and loving it, I started researching for my next ar."

My response and suggestion is to suggest you try another Stag. I have several AR's which include a couple of Stags, but (thankfully now) no LMTs, nor will I now even consider an LMT. How about going with your first love, another Stag?: Mine work flawlessly and are MUCH better than any of your pictures and descriptions of the misrable piece of crap that you got from LMT. The kicker was what they did to rectify it...NOTHING GOOD. Thanks to Rainer it worked out OK but not something I would like to go through. Think about what has worked for you and consider another Stag....best of luck and I hope we can all learn from your expeirences, especially their poor excuse of customer service ....<><....:)

I am sure it's not possible

but the gas key looks like airsoft crap, and poor quailty airsoft crap at that

Posted: 8/29/2009 5:41:14 PM EDT

[#28]

damn and I ordered an LMT awhile back and was given an ETA of december, I sure as hell hope it doesent look like that.

makes me not want it.

Posted: 8/29/2009 6:08:13 PM EDT

[#29]

actually you may be lucky, call them, cancel the order, tell them why, and order a better rifle from a different manufacturer, BCM, Stag, etc, depending on what you want. And be thankful you saw this....<><....:)

Posted: 8/30/2009 5:40:31 AM EDT

[#30]

My oly arms is much better than either of those two rifles and I didnt pay no damn 1300 for it. Good luck workin this shit out.

Posted: 8/30/2009 7:38:29 AM EDT

[#31]

Every company can have a few mistakes slip out, it's not good but it happens. The OP's gun had MANY mistakes, what was the worse problem was that LMT did not take care of the mistakes, shoddy parts and workmanship, to the buyers satisfaction. I do believe he was more generous to them than I would have been. Espercially for that amount of money. The gun and their responser was unacceptable.....<><....:)

Posted: 8/30/2009 7:58:12 AM EDT

[#32]

I don't believe the replacement gun was from LMT. It was from the dealer. LMT did authorize an exchange through the dealer. According to the dealer those issues I had the first time was really bad, however the issues on the second rifle is normal according to lmt quality. That is why I am staying away far and clear from that manufacturer. Getting two consecutive rifles with qc issues is scary to me. And as far as manufacture date they were 3 months apart. I really wanted an lmt mrp too. Oh well.

Posted: 8/30/2009 8:00:11 AM EDT

[#33]

My advice is get another rifle. I know people have there problems but man that sucks.
I will have to say that I know its function over form that matters but the finish on some
tier 1 rifles really doesn't settle right with me. If you are going to spend that much money
they should have it look and function well, why shouldn't it?> A sub $1000 stag has a very
consistent fit and finish why shouldn't others? Obviously it can be done without jacking
prices up.

Posted: 8/30/2009 8:04:05 AM EDT

[#34]

Get a Colt LE6920

Posted: 8/30/2009 8:06:44 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Get a Colt LE6920

Yeah... like their finishes have been top tier lately. What the hell is going on with these manufacturers lately?

Posted: 9/10/2009 7:09:14 PM EDT

[#36]

Found myself an LE6920 locally and picked one up. Finish is as I would expect, staking on carrier key and castle nut is the way it should be as well. Very happy with my new addition. It's time to look for some upgrades. Will be shooting it this weekend as well. Thanks to everyone that responded regarding my issues and concerns.

Posted: 9/10/2009 10:13:30 PM EDT

[#37]

Glad I got a Colt. The finish had some scratches but everything else was 100%. I was thinking LMT before I got it, and considering it next, but Im thinking Noveske now.

Posted: 9/11/2009 11:52:17 AM EDT

[#38]

One more threat that is showing the LMT botchery. Glad I got a BCM.

Posted: 9/11/2009 12:53:47 PM EDT

[#39]

For what it's worth, I recently picked up an LMT CQB 16 rifle and the finish is absolutely superb. Fit and finish is great, everything is correctly staked, etc.

The rifles in question BOTH were shipped from Rainer and not direct from LMT, correct? Not to defend LMT, but you'd think that they'd carefully inspect an exchange rifle closely. If Rainer was acting as a middle man and it came from one of there weapons off the shelf, would it be possible that Rainer got a bad batch and that it was Rainer themselves that did not carefully inspect the second rifle that was delivered?

Either way, that first rifle that was received was absolutely HORRIBLE and I would not accept it whether in the military or as a civilian. The second one doesn't appear to be nearly as well machined as those that I have seen including my own so I'm here scratching my head

Posted: 9/22/2009 5:34:30 PM EDT

[#40]

New guy here - just got an LMT MRP piston 16 three days ago and disassembled it to check it over. Re-examined it based upon this threat, and thankfully, fit and finish are excellent.

Now, I need to see how it shoots. It's unfortunate what happened to the OP. I certainly hope the new rifle you choose works out better.

Good luck.

Posted: 9/23/2009 2:11:29 PM EDT

[#41]

I've got quite a few LMT products and I haven't experienced any of the issues here. Fit, finish and function have been impeccable. It's not sprising that they are experiencing QC problems with all the Obama mania right now. I'm not making excuses, because this stuff is unacceptable. Most manufacturers are experiencing problems. I would send it back and tell them you want your money back. Tell them you wont purchase another LMT produt until they get their QC issues sorted out and that non mil-std. gas keys aren't acceptable. You don't MIM parts to make a superior part, period. You MIM for cost savings. If you want to make an AR purchase now, I'd look at BCM or Noveske. Good luck.

Posted: 10/8/2009 9:39:26 PM EDT

[#42]

Wow OP quite a chain of events. No excuses for 2nd fail. My Piston LMT UPPER has great fit and finish and nice stake but that's not saying anything since it's almost a year old but even one through the cracks for a $1400 rifle is a problem. But two, in a row? More than just a freak anomaly and a BIG problem.

Nothing I've seen matches my Noveske n4 w/vis though, perhaps look there for 'higher end' or else go with BCM everyone seems so hot on these days.

I have no problem trying newer breeds - they are hungry, trying to make a name for themselves while the old guard is fat and happy (and very rich) with .gov contracts and may get lazy.

It appears LMT has gotten lazy and I'm canceling my second LMT Piston upper. Too much competition out there to hope and pray I get a good one.

Posted: 10/8/2009 10:06:08 PM EDT

[#43]

I've never done anything as technical as machining firearm parts but I learned a long time ago that doing the job right the first time takes half the time of you or your coworkers having to do it again.

Posted: 10/8/2009 10:53:48 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
I would request a new rifle from LMT. There is evidence of very sloppy assembly work and you should not take the insult of having paid close to $1300 for that rifle.

The castle nut staking job concerns me because it is indicative of the care which was used to assemble the rifle. Definately do not like those MIM gas keys they are using now either.

Posted: 11/13/2009 2:36:19 PM EDT

[#45]

tag for pics later

Posted: 11/14/2009 6:09:55 AM EDT

[#46]

Does it work?

No? Send it back. Yes? What's the big deal? You gonna shoot it or drool on it?

Posted: 11/14/2009 7:27:11 AM EDT

[#47]

I dont understand why people think just because it's an AR-15 that it shouldn't look like a $1,400 bolt rifle. Would you accept a $1,400 bolt gun if it had even as much as a scratch on the stock, much less mechanical problems or any problems at all. These rifles cost very little to manufacture and the profits being made from the companies selling them is enormous, so to ask for the rifle to look like a $1,400 rifle is not at all something you should have to ask for weather it's an AR or a Bolt gun. They both serve the same purpose for 99% of the people that buy them, so to call it a tool and your beautiful less expensive bolt gun not a tool is ridiculous, a gun is a gun and how much you pay for it should determine it quality fit & finish and everything in between.

With that said I'm glad the OP is happy with his new Colt and learned a good lesson about buying high $ anything, you should get what you pay for and nothing less.

Posted: 11/15/2009 11:12:46 AM EDT

[#48]

Oh boy....my LMT 16" upper is getting ready to ship from LMT on Monday. I also have a 10.5" upper on order to use with a pistol lower.

I visited my local dealer yesterday to make an unrelated purchase and he shared his concerns about LMT. I took what he said with a grain of salt (one person's opinion) until I started looking on AR15.com. I went with an LMT because I wanted to be 100% confident that I was getting the best. Not only am I purchasing a rifle, but I am purchasing peace of mind. Well, that peace of mind has evaporated. I'm going to cancel my orders and wait until the AR-15 supply chain serving all of the manufacturers settles down. Not sure what to do next.

Posted: 11/15/2009 12:23:28 PM EDT

[#49]

My LMT is just about flawless, built up by JTAC.
Is it at all possible that part of the OP's issue rests in Rainier Arm's court? Could it be that the "replacement" sent from LMT to Rainier was not the rifle Rainier sent to the OP? Questionable is LMT's QC, but what of Rainier double checking what they are sending out as a replacement?

The tinfoil hat part of me wonders if perhaps some dealers buy up some "factory seconds" and sell them off amidst the "good" rifles.

Posted: 11/15/2009 1:00:15 PM EDT

[#50]

Have already composed the email to Ryan Johnson to cancel my order - have not hit "send" yet. I'm going to make some calls and conduct some more research before I pull the trigger so to speak.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Picked up new LMT SPM16 please help... ***Update with pics*** (Page 2 of 3)

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