It's good to hear the Rev M is even nicer than the last. Figure I'm still saving for one lol.

If they are so low tier, why exactly are they the standard optic of the Israeli military?  Not to mention, any other illuminated optic still has the same flaws.  And yes, that includes the Acog, RMR, aimpoint, eotech, etc

What optic do you run good sir? for discussions sake

It's funny all the emotional connection to optics for a weapon that 99.98% of people will use to punch paper.

My fan-boy M21 never bloomed in direct sunlight. I wonder if the sun is different where you are?

Guys, I have one on the way. I am very excited about it.

Tomac, thanks for that link.

Fella's, Mako group has them right now for 30% off with the BLACKFRIDAYOPTIC code.

For me, with shipping, it worked out to $403.93

If I could have afforded faster shipping, I would have done it.

Now to sell the Eotech. Gonna put it up on my FB page and a little local thing, but I have a couple of friends wanting it too, so off to make a couple of phone calls.

Got an M21 coming Triangle reticle - it's Tomac and Pavlovwolf's fault
Cashed-in on the Mako black friday sale !

Hope you guys like yours as much as I like mine (could've saved myself some $$$ if I'd known about Mako's sale earlier )!
Tomac

I've always preferred this type of optic to the battery powered ones like EOTech and Aimpoint. The triangle reticle is simply awesome, and is also nice and crisp. The only reason I stuck with the battery RDS types was the washout issue. Now it appears these optics have advanced to the point where even that is now largely a non-issue. Based on the early reports, I'm going to pick one of these up. If I like it as much as I hope I will, I'll be picking up more of them later.

Just bought one. New sbr optic!

Finally, a triangle ret!  Been wanting one for the past year.  The RUC 14.5 is now complete.

Oh man, for $400 I would have picked one of these up.

Always a day late. Or two.

You're not too late if you hurry, that price is good until 11:59pm on Monday the 26th.
Tomac

Bump to keep this thread alive.

anyone know where I can get a deal on one of these?

Cheapest I've seen recently is appx $450 for the dot or bullseye reticle and $525 for the triangle reticle (very popular, apparently).
HTH...
Tomac

Tomac - Question regarding the 1.0 vs. 1.7 MOA; specifically which mm/yyyy did this change occur?  I just picked up an M-21 off the EE here and was done so with a dose of influence from your past reviews in the archives; you must've served in a battalion 3 shop.

Anyhow, I would appreciate any info you can lend on change over...

I don't know the specific date but it's been at least a year. What reticle do you have? If triangle it should be gtg but if you wish PM me the serial number and I'll hazard my best guess.
Tomac

I've got the "bullseye" reticule; ser.# 1101A0955.

I'm a long time EOTech guy, but I decided I had to try one of these M21s out. My "bullseye reticle" version should be here tomorrow.

Looks like early 2011 mfg, it may or may not have the 1moa adjustments. If you haven't sighted it in yet, how much of a rotation is required for a single click change in elevation? W/the newer version I was surprised at how far apart the clicks are (1/8 turn?).
HTH...
Tomac

Tomac-  Just got it this past Saturday so I've yet to get it zero'd.  I gather from your statement regarding the "clicks", the closer the "clicks"  determines if it's one or the other; ie, if the "clicks" are closer it'll be a 1.7 vs. the opposite being 1.0.

EDIT:  I'll check the "clicks" when I get home from the "salt mines"...

Your life may depend on it.  Spend the money and get the best.  Aimpoint M4 or a T1.  No worries about batteries with those.  You will run out of ammo and everything else before the battery dies on those.

I'd say Eotech too, but the battery life sucks compared to the Aimpoint.  I know that probably ruffle some feathers, but it's the truth.

This optic is combat proven, and, there are zero batteries. Nothing to break. No electronics. Nothing. Even Aimpoints can break. My best friend had his go down , but  luckily he was  on the range at Bragg and not on a deployment. It wasn't due to batteries but rather the electronics. This was back in 2003-2005 or somewhere.

He is in love with this optic. He always liked the speed and precision he could get with the Eotech, but didn't like the battery issues,  but this offers him similar speed, similar accuracy ( I have the triangle ), without any batteries whatsoever. Plus, no knobs to twist, break or electronics to foul up.

He has a couple of things to get out of the way first, but he's saving for one of these himself.

So the Israeli army uses a crap optic then?

I have no argument w/anyone who prefers an Aimpoint for "serious social use". However, Aimpoints are still battery-dependent (regardless of battery life) and must be adjusted for ambient light conditions. A dead battery (for whatever reason) leaves you w/a dead optic. Plus, my astigmatism makes Aimpoint dots increasingly distorted w/age.
For my needs, the undistorted reticle & KISS simplicity of the M21 is better than an Aimpoint or Eotech  (I've owned plenty of both) but YMMV.
Tomac

This one doesn't, at least with the triangle. I have tried, trust me. It is one of the issues remedied with this new revision.

My shootin' irons have run the gamut of red dot sites and I came across the M-21 while perusing the KISS photo thread.  Long story short, read everything I could find regarding pros/cons and the former beat out the latter by a (IMHO) large margin; Tomac's depicted reviews (older and new versions) were invaluable with regards to reticule performance in the varying light spectrum.  Good Luck and post a review once it's zeroed.

This.  

Just checked the rotation of the adjustments and it doesn't have that "click" like the ACOG RCO; doesn't make a hoot of a difference, still a very nice optic.  I'll be heading to the range this weekend to get it zeroed and will zero it atop my LE6940; once co-witness is established, I'll turn down the front sight post.  I'll post with the obligatory results...

http://s1321.beta.photobucket.com/user/The-Ant1-Liberal/media/LE6940_zps8d8b917c.jpg.html

I have some out of the box photos for you guys. I got the X reticle because lets face it, no one has reviewed it and I was intrigued by it
I'll be taking it out on Thursday to try and get the best possible through the scope photos and try it out at 300m. I already got a good 25m zero on it but I'd like to see how that holds up with the quick detach. I'm quite pleased with its performance thus far.

A few observations:
-No small cost of $481.82 with shipping
-Sadly I need vision correction (glasses) while using this optic or its fuzzy. Its okay, I'll shoot better with them anyway.
-Windage and elevation easily adjusted with a nickle. This is preferable to say, a screwdriver as you wont cause unnecessary wear.

Just a photo
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/Omaga420/DSC_6509_zpsfd604ada.jpg

I didn't feel like changing out camera lenses so here is a reticle photo from about 5 ft away. The reticle appears HUGE in this photo, but that's because of the perspective.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y33/Omaga420/DSC_6501_zps9fd97e0c.jpg

When my IDF Tavor gets here I'll be trying an M21 for the first time and I cannot wait.  It will be the bullseye reticle.

I got my M21 and my initial impression is that it works well. I tried it in all types of lighting and haven't gotten the reticle to wash out yet. The only thing is... Damn... It's BIG!



Time on the range will tell if I keep it around or not.

I heard a gong after reading that.  Sage philosophy; shit in, shit out.  I've got a $420 AIO red dot that I don't know what to do with...

Heh. No gong (in a bad way). I always try to be open minded when trying new equipment. Some of the best stuff I've ever used has been ugly as shit.



Like I said... I tried the M21 in all sorts of light conditions and I've been impressed. It is LARGE, though.

tomac,

You said your reticle was "very crisp"... I just purchased a M21 w/ triangle reticle off of amazon.com and the reticle blooms like crazy... indoors, outdoors it doesnt matter.  Have you had this problem with any other of your M21s?  Its very hard for me to concentrate on the tip as there are radiating "bursting, blooming" effects coming off the sides of the triangle.  

Anyone else bought a meprolight m21 and experience blooming?

I only get it rarely. In very bright sun looking into a blackened area. Not a black target necessarily. It isn't bad though, not enough to distort the triangle.

In the past I've owned a couple of Trijicon RX-30's (also tritium/fiber optics like the M21) and the 6.5moa dot bloomed very badly for me in bright sunlight. Both my previous M21 w/bullseye reticle and currently M21 w/triangle get very bright in direct sunlight but don't distort/bloom. In lowlight conditions (ie: total darkness or indoors) they're very crisp.
Do you have astigmatism or have had Lasik? Either of those could contribute to the blooming effect you describe.
HTH...
Tomac

ETA: I currently have 5 M21's sitting in my gunsafe and none of us sees any distortion/blooming in any of them.

=I got to briefly try out a MOR sight last weekend.. I've been wanting to see one before shelling out the money, I'm glad I waited. I still may get one, but the performance in a snowy environment wasn't all that great-the reticle contrast wasn't very good. The reticle wasn't as bright as I thought it would be either-in broad daylight I couldn't tell the sight was on until the brightest setting on battery power. Time will tell if it is markedly better in other environments but on the day I think I would have been better off with a Mepro MARS sight or Trijicon SRS for a battery powered sight and figuring out the laser situation on my own. The RX-30 is brighter and a little more orange than the Mepro MOR. ETA: Outdoors and in broad daylight.

I don't want to sound like I am down on the MOR sight, a bright snowy day is hard on any red dot let alone one that is daylight lit with an amber reticle. The contrast was a bigger issue than brightness to be honest, but a little brighter would have been nice. Overall build quality was decent, but clealy not up to the standards set by Trijicon or Mepro's forged aluminum bodies for toughtness. One major gripe is the length of the pressure pad cable and method of attachment.... I have a similar problem on my MARS sight-the cable is short and the velcro wrap is set up more for handguards than VFG's. I tried to mount this on an MSAR AUG for shits and giggles because that is a gun that doesn't have a lot of real estate for sights, lasers etc. The cable was just long enough for the VFG but I couldn't strap it down tight enough to keep it from rotating around the VFG. I'm sure I could come up with something to make it work, but for this kind of money I shouldn't have to.

What I did like (at a glance):

The unit is light and not terribly bulky
Unlike the MARS sight's FOV, the window is bigger on the MOR
The height of the sight window was perfect on the AUG.

What I did not like (at a glance):

Pressure switch and cable-other than being beefy, I can't say much good about it.
Dot could be brighter on the highest setting
There was a significant amount of reflection off of the rear lens when the projector tunnel was exposed to sunlight-more than any DI sight I have used.
Dot could be more orange for better contrast-or better yet, offer it in red or green
The fiber optic window is only on the top rear of the sight. It needs to extend out the front and sides to really work well. It's like the same limitation that the Trijicon Reflex2 had; some shooting positions offer enough light, some don't. Advancements on the Mepro21 and RX30 show that this can largely be addressed with more fiber optic surface area around the sight.


So far, I'll say that the sight is still interesting to me and merits more investigation.

Thx for the MOR review, I've been curious about it but couldn't bring myself to cough up that much for an experiment.
Tomac

Thanks for the input everyone.

May pick one of these up soon to put on a 18" Tavor.

The more I use it, the more I'm convinced the triangle reticle was the right way to go for my needs. My best friend (retired cop) just loves his.
Tomac

Great thread. Anyone know how these perform in snowy & rainy conditions? I'm thinking of putting one of these sights on my Ruger GSR which I will be using as my general purpose rifle, but also as my primary deer rifle. Tends to be snow here during deer season.

It doesn't snow much here, but we did get about 5 inches a few weeks ago. I checked it out for a few minutes. Just carrying it from the house and walking around outside with it while it was coming down. I didn't have any trouble with fogged lenses, or picking up the reticle in any of the normal conditions you'd find. There are no electronics, and the the proper way to clean it if it's dirty is to take it off the rifle and run it under water. There should be no elemental conditions that would cause it to malfunction since there are no batteries to be affected.

As far as fog in the rainy weather, I don't know yet, since I haven't taken it out in it, and I likely won't. I will know more about how it resists fogging once late July and August, the dog days hit here. We'll have 100f and 115f heat index, 100% humidity all at the same time. You don't walk outside, you swim. Leaving from a 65f air conditioned house, and stepping outside , or vice versa, will generally fog up all but the better glass on optics. It certainly gets your glasses. When it rains on those days it's worse. I will check it out when those days get here.

I'm well aware of that nasty humidity as I've spent a lot of time in Charlotte and Myrtle Beach. I remember going outside @ 5:30am to go to work and have my clothes sticking to my skin before I made it to the truck, and that was in April lol.


My interest in the M21 is an all purpose site for my all purpose rifle, and one that doesn't require batteries. I want it for a SHTF scenario as well because we won't be finding batteries and a solar flare or other even that could produce EMP would wipe out Aimpoints & EOtech sights. I also don't want a traditional scope because I have a damned hard time getting the eye relief set and the higher magnifications give me instant splitting headaches. So when I first read about the Mepro M21, it sounded like what I want but just wasn't sure about durability and function during extremes. I will always have my irons which I'm very good with but I do have troubles with low light conditions which is why I want a RDS.

So, I guess after reading through the entire thread, my final question before pulling the trigger on a new M21 is, what kind of eye relief is required for best results? I am mounting this on a Ruger Scout Rifle so the picatinny rail is located just forward of the receiver. Will it work in that location? I can get a full length rail but would rather not, but my other choice is an ACOG and I'll need a full length rail to mount that.

Your situation and reasoning sounds very much like mine. I had an Eotech before, and have run them for the last 12 years, and I really like the way they work, but the SHTF and battery situation was on my mind. I can't shoot Aimpoints well at all. I wouldn't worry about EMPs, they won't affect anything without an antenna hooked to it. Your optics will be fine. If it was enough to affect your optics you wouldn't be able to use them anyway.

The eye relief on the M21 is the same as any open sight like the Eotech, Kobra, etc. Just stick it where you want it. It's unlimited. I have mine mounted just forward of the rear BUIS.

It isn't as forgiving of head position, left , right, up, and down angles as the Eotech, but nothing is. It is still much more forgiving than an Aimpoint or any sight that uses a tube.

Get the M21, you won't be sorry.  I've had EoTechs, Aim Points and a C-More ATAC and they're all fine, but found the M-21 to fit all my needs; ie, battery free optic, rugged and always ready to go.  After reading a couple of Tomac's reviews, I went with the M21.  Here's an M21 for sale here on the EE; it's priced just about right for a used (albeit LNIB) M21.  Good Luck!

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_163/1142356_Meprolight_M21.html

So where is the current best place to grab a triangle reticle?

Best price I'm aware of currently is $445: http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/meprolight-96330-reflex-sight-triangle-p-35567.html
I've ordered from them before and had no difficulties.
HTH...
Tomac

Did a nightshoot last night, the tritium in the M21 kept the reticle sharp and bright at all stages except when using the TLR-1S taclight at *very* close ranges (appx 5'). At very close ranges it was much faster just to look over the sight and use the TLR-1S' hotspot on the target as the aiming point.
Before the sun went down was making consistent hits on the 200m gong using the tip of the triangle as the aiming point and, surprisingly, the bottom of the triangle appears to be the correct holdover for appx 500m (didn't have enough daylight left to test this as much as I wanted).
Tomac

The triangle is 12moa, and it does work that way depending on your zero. It does the same for my 6.8 depending on cartridge and zero. I haven't checked the 5.56, but it should be similar in windage, but somewhere around 300meters/yards, the deflection from a 10mph full value crosswind will be 6 moa, or half the triangle, mean, just put the opposite corner of the triangle dead center and you will get a hit, if I'm doing my math right here in my head. Got my mind on something else so .