Lets also not forget by placing the reticle in front of the erector as a first focal plane reticle design it is IMPOSSIBLE to have shift of reticle relative to the magnified view by changing power of the magnification on the scope.

2011BLDR and I were talking off line and we agreed that our discussion should be shared with the group.

Basically, I asked 2011BLDR whether he thinks the red or the amber Accupoint TR21 is better (short answer: amber); whether the point of the reticle is fine enough for precise shots at 400-500 yards (short answer: yes, bearing in mind that it is only a 4x scope); and whether he recommends the off-set Larue mount even for a rifle with a continuous rail (short answer: yes).  

Here is 2011BLDR's excellent discussion in its entirety:

Depends on what lighting conditions you expect to mainly use it in,

BRIGHT DAY LIGHT:

Red resists the wash out effect better than Amber, but being that the TR21
fiber optic is physically visible in the scope unlike a Reflix or the Tri-
Power when it washes out it is to a black pointer and is still usable to
shoot with. So it is totally personnel preference. Mine was red the first
year but I have switched to Amber due to the issues Red has in the
conditions listed below.

LOW LIGHT:

Red is really hard to find in the levels of light that the Tritium is the
illumination source on the reticle. Amber is vastly superior hear.

When IR Night Vision is used there is no difference if you look throw the
NVG but if the week eye is on NV and you want the strong eye to pickup the
retical for your brain to add the 2 images together the amber is again
vastly superior.

When working with "Wight light "we are back to no issues as it will wash out
to a black pointer , very visible and usable in that cone of "Wight light ".


IMO the TR21 is the only optic that works 0-400M at this time, as an
antipersonnel sight. It is not a Sniper grade optic with only 4X, 400-500 YD's
is the extreme end usefulness on man sized targets but superior to a 1X
sight past 150 YD's.

.Base is 4 MOA on 4X and would be 20" @500 YD or roughly body width. A point
is a point at any range and covers no area, you could dial in the proper
elevation dope from a data card at any given range and have POI at POA right
on the point every time.

LaRue Extended mount will pull weight back over the receiver enhancing the
balance. If you don't already have 1" rings invest in the SPR-E Mount you
won't be sorry.

Thanks for the information! I am definitely looking into the TR21/SPR-E setup as soon as the funds allow.

Quoted: Thanks for the information! I am definitely looking into the TR21/SPR-E setup as soon as the funds allow.

Me too.  I'd love an S&B, but it is just too expensive for me.  The Accupoint sounds like it will do the trick.  Besides, I like the idea of not having to worry about batteries!

Quoted: 2011BLDR and I were talking off line and we agreed that our discussion should be shared with the group. Basically, I asked 2011BLDR whether he thinks the red or the amber Accupoint TR21 is better (short answer: amber); whether the point of the reticle is fine enough for precise shots at 400-500 yards (short answer: yes, bearing in mind that it is only a 4x scope); and whether he recommends the off-set Larue mount even for a rifle with a continuous rail (short answer: yes).   Here is 2011BLDR's excellent discussion in its entirety: IMO the TR21 is the only optic that works 0-400M at this time, as an antipersonnel sight. It is not a Sniper grade optic with only 4X, 400-500 YD's is the extreme end usefulness on man sized targets but superior to a 1X sight past 150 YD's.

I have to ask 2011BLDR, why do you feel the TR21 is the ONLY optic that works 0-400 meters at this time? I think it's been plenty proven that there are more than a few 1-4 optics that work out to these ranges.

Interesting stuff, paramarine326.

IMO

I find falt with all the others as a " Combat " sight for the spefic kind of Operators I need to equip. Buy what ever you want.  I ues the TR21 for the following:
1. Large rear lens.
2. Long eye relief.
Both of these increases the speed that strong eye can detect the recital, the brain can merge it in to one image and the transition between targets. Additionally they help to increase the normal binocular vision and reduce the strong eye tunneling effect.
3. Precise BZO point simple and uncluttered recital, radiuses as recitals do not lend themselves well to giving us a precise hold over/under reference point
4. Large reticle up close (CQC) and decrease in size/ target coverage as the range is increased (INTERMEDIATE).
5. Superior LOW LIGHT and IR Night Vision capability.  Most battery powered optics in this class do NOT have NV settings and would be to bright vued through a device even on the lowest setting. Fiber optic cover is left open all day and closed at night just in case the enemy has NVG’s also.
6. No intensity adjustments to play with as you move between lighting conditions.
7.  NO batteries.
8. Price. I can field 4 TR21 for the cost of 1 S&B.  It is $200 ea more per Operator than a M68/ EOTEC,  $1000 less than M68/ EOTEC and an ACOG.
9. Speed.  I am seeing that with optimum  eye relief  on 1.25X and a period to become used to a TR21 most shooters are faster with it than the M68, EOTEC or Reflex it replaces.  Plus you have 4x at the touch of a dial.
Out.
2011BLDR
   

Quoted: LOW LIGHT: Red is really hard to find in the levels of light that the Tritium is the illumination source on the reticle. Amber is vastly superior hear.

This is the exact opposite of what I have personally experienced with amber reticles in the ACOG-series of scopes. At low levels of light with mixed lighting present, the red can become difficult to pick up but in the same lighting environment amber can fade out entirely. Try using a TA01NSN just before dawn or dusk and you can see the same thing with its amber-lit crosshairs on orange/brown/yellow backgrounds. As the sun gets brighter/dimmer there will be a point where the tritium powered illumination is still too bright to go dark; but not bright enough to stand out against background illumination and the crosshairs will disappear for a bit. In that same circumstance, the red will stand out because there just aren't a whole lot of red backgrounds.

BAC ACOGs (and the Accupoint) are more resistant to this since they amplify illumination using ambient light; but it can still happen where the target or background color is the right shade and you are looking from a darker area to a more brightly lit one. Forest has described a similar phenomena using a flashlight on IDPA targets indoors with an amber compact ACOG.

Quoted: IMO I find falt with all the others as a " Combat " sight for the spefic kind of Operators I need to equip. Buy what ever you want.  I ues the TR21 for the following: 1. Large rear lens. 2. Long eye relief. Both of these increases the speed that strong eye can detect the recital, the brain can merge it in to one image and the transition between targets. Additionally they help to increase the normal binocular vision and reduce the strong eye tunneling effect. 3. Precise BZO point simple and uncluttered recital, radiuses as recitals do not lend themselves well to giving us a precise hold over/under reference point 4. Large reticle up close (CQC) and decrease in size/ target coverage as the range is increased (INTERMEDIATE). 5. Superior LOW LIGHT and IR Night Vision capability.  Most battery powered optics in this class do NOT have NV settings and would be to bright vued through a device even on the lowest setting. Fiber optic cover is left open all day and closed at night just in case the enemy has NVG’s also. 6. No intensity adjustments to play with as you move between lighting conditions. 7.  NO batteries. 8. Price. I can field 4 TR21 for the cost of 1 S&B.  It is $200 ea more per Operator than a M68/ EOTEC,  $1000 less than M68/ EOTEC and an ACOG. 9. Speed.  I am seeing that with optimum  eye relief  on 1.25X and a period to become used to a TR21 most shooters are faster with it than the M68, EOTEC or Reflex it replaces.  Plus you have 4x at the touch of a dial. Out. 2011BLDR

Thank you.

Quoted: Quoted: LOW LIGHT: Red is really hard to find in the levels of light that the Tritium is the illumination source on the reticle. Amber is vastly superior hear. This is the exact opposite of what I have personally experienced with amber reticles in the ACOG-series of scopes. At low levels of light with mixed lighting present, the red can become difficult to pick up but in the same lighting environment amber can fade out entirely. Try using a TA01NSN just before dawn or dusk and you can see the same thing with its amber-lit crosshairs on orange/brown/yellow backgrounds. As the sun gets brighter/dimmer there will be a point where the tritium powered illumination is still too bright to go dark; but not bright enough to stand out against background illumination and the crosshairs will disappear for a bit. In that same circumstance, the red will stand out because there just aren't a whole lot of red backgrounds. BAC ACOGs (and the Accupoint) are more resistant to this since they amplify illumination using ambient light; but it can still happen where the target or background color is the right shade and you are looking from a darker area to a more brightly lit one. Forest has described a similar phenomena using a flashlight on IDPA targets indoors with an amber compact ACOG.

DITTO to BART

One of the reason I junked the TA01NSN on my field gun was the fact it was USELESS at the dusk/dawn tiem frame as the 'amber' grayed out.  I had rules Amber out as an effective reticle color for that reason.  As well as I am very hesitant with Amber as my experiences the Reflex RX01NSN was enough to make me run away.  With the TA31 and EOTECH red reticles I am much happier and they work quiet well in BAC mode wear weak eye NV for those who feel they dont want to go active with the PEQ.

All that said, playing with a Carryhandles mounted TA-45-2 (amber triangle) it does not have those problems I've associated with the Amber reticles - perhaps due to the fibre optic gaining extra light - the the larger tritium illuminated area (not sure).  I've looked at the Accupoint (and many other optics) - but it just seemed cheap to me.  Maybe if I get some time I will try one out.

My amber experience is similar to 2011's, thought I haven't used the red except in bright conditions. The amber is fantastic on the tritium lamp. It's REALLY good in low light, illumination level is perfect, IMO. If I were buying today, it would be amber. Trijicon designed their optics around amber but, due to personal preference, offered red to those that want it. Amber was the design choice because their designers felt it offered the best performance. I do too. YMMV.

Quoted: Quoted: This is the exact opposite of what I have personally experienced with amber reticles in the ACOG-series of scopes. At low levels of light with mixed lighting present, the red can become difficult to pick up but in the same lighting environment amber can fade out entirely. Try using a TA01NSN just before dawn or dusk and you can see the same thing with its amber-lit crosshairs on orange/brown/yellow backgrounds. As the sun gets brighter/dimmer there will be a point where the tritium powered illumination is still too bright to go dark; but not bright enough to stand out against background illumination and the crosshairs will disappear for a bit. In that same circumstance, the red will stand out because there just aren't a whole lot of red backgrounds. BAC ACOGs (and the Accupoint) are more resistant to this since they amplify illumination using ambient light; but it can still happen where the target or background color is the right shade and you are looking from a darker area to a more brightly lit one. Forest has described a similar phenomena using a flashlight on IDPA targets indoors with an amber compact ACOG. DITTO to BART One of the reason I junked the TA01NSN on my field gun was the fact it was USELESS at the dusk/dawn tiem frame as the 'amber' grayed out.  I had rules Amber out as an effective reticle color for that reason.  As well as I am very hesitant with Amber as my experiences the Reflex RX01NSN was enough to make me run away.  With the TA31 and EOTECH red reticles I am much happier and they work quiet well in BAC mode wear weak eye NV for those who feel they dont want to go active with the PEQ. All that said, playing with a Carryhandles mounted TA-45-2 (amber triangle) it does not have those problems I've associated with the Amber reticles - perhaps due to the fibre optic gaining extra light - the the larger tritium illuminated area (not sure).  I've looked at the Accupoint (and many other optics) - but it just seemed cheap to me.  Maybe if I get some time I will try one out.

Bart and Kevin, are the reticles in the ACOG visible when the color is washed out? I think the point 2011 was making is that even when the color is washed out, the optic is still visible in black.

Sorry, double tap.

Quoted: Bart and Kevin, are the reticles in the ACOG visible when the color is washed out? I think the point 2011 was making is that even when the color is washed out, the optic is still visible in black.

Not Bart or Kevin but, yes, the ACOG reticles are visable when the fiber optics wash out. The Accupoint is a black post when washed out where the ACOG is just a triangle/circle/chevron. One of the cool things about the Accupoint is the ability to "turn off" or adjust the illumination for precision daytime use or when shooting from a bright area into a dark area.

Quoted:
One of the cool things about the Accupoint is the ability to "turn off" or adjust the illumination for precision daytime use or when shooting from a bright area into a dark area.[/quote]

ipchoser1,
How is that?  I thought you couldn't/didn't need to adjust the Accupoint?  Can you please expand on that?
Thanks

Quoted: Quoted: One of the cool things about the Accupoint is the ability to "turn off" or adjust the illumination for precision daytime use or when shooting from a bright area into a dark area.[/quote] ipchoser1, How is that?  I thought you couldn't/didn't need to adjust the Accupoint?  Can you please expand on that? Thanks

Sure. There's a sliding cover for the fiber optic panel that allows the reticle intensity to be adjusted with a turn of the wrist. Normally the fiber optic is left full bright but there are situations (300 yard headshot on an IPSC target in the shade, shooter in the bright sunlight or shooting groups on paper to evaluate ammo accuracy) that a sharp black post or muted illumination are called for. This is accounted for well in the Accupoint design.

The problem is in near dark situtations the reticle black - and the tritium amber blend very nicely with the surroundings.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the cool things about the Accupoint is the ability to "turn off" or adjust the illumination for precision daytime use or when shooting from a bright area into a dark area.[/quote] ipchoser1, How is that?  I thought you couldn't/didn't need to adjust the Accupoint?  Can you please expand on that? Thanks Sure. There's a sliding cover for the fiber optic panel that allows the reticle intensity to be adjusted with a turn of the wrist. Normally the fiber optic is left full bright but there are situations (300 yard headshot on an IPSC target in the shade, shooter in the bright sunlight or shooting groups on paper to evaluate ammo accuracy) that a sharp black post or muted illumination are called for. This is accounted for well in the Accupoint design.

Thanks!  This sounds like a great scope, especially for the money.  While I would love an S&B, I just can't justify the price.

Semper Fi

Not fair to compare the deferent  colors available from Trijicon across deferent optics or generations.   For example all Reflex’s are not equal. There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the first generation Reflex (NSN) and the Reflex 2 cyalume.  The RX09 cyalume (really a should have been named a gen 3) eliminates 95% of the wash out problems for 90% of shooters, if you have an activated cyalume light stick in it. It would be a very near imposable to distinguish it from the first generation Reflex that was mass fielded in SOPMOD Block 1 (NSN) without a side by side comparison.  I Spent 2 hours at SHOT 05 with several Trijicon engineers in the back discussing their products and was shown several next generation Reflex prototypes that IMO will far out class even the beloved EOTEC when / if produced.  
  My color comparisons are done between the same scopes:
TR21,  I found a majority of my testers felt that the “Amber” (really   cyalume) is superior across the whole operational light spectrum.  The guys that have the 3 Red test ones want Amber as soon as the next batch arrives.
TA01NSN is a waste of $ .  I have 20 +  that sit in the armories, nobody wants them.
TA31’s were imposable to find when I was buying ACOG’s so I did no comparisons testing between them.
TA11F a majority of my testers felt that the “Amber” (really   cyalume) is superior across the whole operational light spectrum.
Compact ACOG’s nobody liked any of them. With no BDC in the reticle not a good value for the $.
When you are talking optics experienced shooters will already have things they like and generally will resist change.  I try to have a good mix of optics that are proven to withstand hard use available for my operators to choose from, they are:
M68 (Aim point)
EOTEC
RX09-23 (ReflixII)
TA01 NSN (none in the field, can’t give them away with the other choices available)
TA11F-A
TR21
  The curent Combat enveriorment has caused me to do an equipement change that makes all BDC ACOG's usless to us, a big factor in the TR21 choice so as not to loose magnifed capability for those who want it.  As I have stated before  the one sight for CQB- INTERMEDIATE Ranges is a complex problem that requires a full understanding of all the issues  and  what  compromises you are willing to live with as the shooter  to address it.  Intended use or your Combat role will have to be factored in to any optic choice.
Out.
2011BLDR

TA01NSN  was a SOPMOD  FUBAR Trijicon tried to convince them the BAC models were superior, the “selectors” only wanted a 4X Day Scope without Tritium but compromised with a very low amount  to light just the center.
Trijicon addressed the issues everyone had with the Reflex NSN but has failed to educate the world on the improvements and differences in all their products between generations  in general, not just the Reflex  .
Out.
2011BLDR

Thanks

I am going to have to try out a TR21 - I have played with the S&B SD and NF's 1-4 so it has some competition for my heart

Some might find this of interest
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=23&t=270199

Quoted: As I have stated before  the one sight for CQB- INTERMEDIATE Ranges is a complex problem that requires a full understanding of all the issues  and  what  compromises you are willing to live with as the shooter  to address it.

What would you identify as some compromises of a TR21?  How are they holding up in the field compared to some others?

P. S.  If you'd like someone to babysit a disused TA01 NSN, I volunteer.  I'm optics poor--and jealous!  

2011 why the pick of the 1x4 instead of the 3x9. also what were some of the future concepts trijicon was showing you. optics are starting to become like computers. by the time you get one its outdated.what type of optic would you recommend for the spr type upper. right now im running a 10x super sniper with a optima mounted on it. was looking for a varible scope but might get the 3x9 trijicon.thanks for your knowledge.

Bart and Kevin, are the reticles in the ACOG visible when the color is washed out? I think the point 2011 was making is that even when the color is washed out, the optic is still visible in black.

There is a point where the reticle is not completely dark; but not fully lit either. At that point, it is easy for the reticle to blend in with background lighting. Usually red stands out better in this situation because there are relatively few areas with red background lighting in real world usage; but there are a lot of areas with amber/yellowish background lighting (orbiting around a yellow sun and such).

However, most of my comparisons were done with the ACOG. The Accupoint has a much superior fiber optic system in my opinion - less obtrusive, better protected, and you can shut it off or block it if you like without doing the inner tuber mod.

Quoted: My color comparisons are done between the same scopes: TR21,  I found a majority of my testers felt that the “Amber” (really   cyalume) is superior across the whole operational light spectrum.  The guys that have the 3 Red test ones want Amber as soon as the next batch arrives.

I'm a little confused here. Are you saying the TR21 uses cyalume to illuminate the reticle?

I'm a little confused here. Are you saying the TR21 uses cyalume to illuminate the reticle?

No, that was a cut and past oversight on my part the (note) should have been removed on the TR21 and I will edit that post.  All Trijicon “Amber” took on more of an orange hue in everything since the introduction of the Reflex II.
Out.
2011BLDR

I took me a while but I managed to wash out an Amber TA45-2 Compact ACOG.  I had to play with the lighting and background a lot - so much that I dont think it would be a realsitic issue.

No one seems to want to lend me a 21 to play with

Quoted: Quoted: As I have stated before  the one sight for CQB- INTERMEDIATE Ranges is a complex problem that requires a full understanding of all the issues  and  what  compromises you are willing to live with as the shooter  to address it. What would you identify as some compromises of a TR21?  How are they holding up in the field compared to some others? P. S.  If you'd like someone to babysit a disused TA01 NSN, I volunteer.  I'm optics poor--and jealous!  hug.gif

The only real compromises I see in the TR21 is that neither color of reticle works perfect in every light spectrum and against every possible back ground.  We chose the Amber for the low light NVG issues knowing that we may be shooting a Black reticle in some situations. If any of my guys want Red I have no problem mixing the orders but have no requests for additional Red ones.  

I have told Trijicon that they should address the waterproofing and depth testing to get the TR21 down to 66ft from the current 10ft. This is the Mil Std test depth that ensures dust and dirt stays out as well as the water. Bottom line none of the other optics in this class seem to be built any different , exception  being the US Optics that is to big and heavy, and would add significant weight for no real performance gain.  Then the price issue, I would be able to destroy 3-4 TR21’s to equal the initial cost of one optic on some of the others in this class.  So I really only care that they survive the deployment and see my Operators home safe. If the scope can’t be reissued, well that is a cost of War.

So far we have had no durability issues.  Part of that is that optics are  a vary valuable piece of kit  along with the lasers not to be abused , all Military grade optics are in short supply and no one wants to have to get by with only iron sights in today’s GWOT due to their own neglect. Theirs a lot more fragile gear in a modern solders kit than a TR21.
Out
2011BLDR

Thanks, 2011BLDR.  Very informative.  

It's starting to look like for my next big optics purchase, I'm going to have to try this TR21. The idea of a low power variable is sounding better and better to me, and this is sounding like a great one to start with.

With all the talk about reticle washout, I thought ya'll might be interested in a pic thru a TR21 in less than ideal circumstances. This shot was taken under a shelter with a late afternoon sun low and behind but with a brightly lit target area. As you can see, the worst case senario would be a bold black post, not bad in it's own right. BTW, the scope was on 4x and the target distance 100 yards.  

Quoted: With all the talk about reticle washout, I thought ya'll might be interested in a pic thru a TR21 in less than ideal circumstances. This shot was taken under a shelter with a late afternoon sun low and behind but with a brightly lit target area. As you can see, the worst case senario would be a bold black post, not bad in it's own right. BTW, the scope was on 4x and the target distance 100 yards.   www.hunt101.com/img/105873.jpg

Is that a red or amber reticle? Looks red to me, but I'm not quite sure.

Also, when you look through the scope at 4x is it really that fuzzy at the edges? It also looks like there is spherical aberration present, but this could be completely due to the camera. Just wondering if that's how it looks at the edges looking through it in real life.

i know trijicon use to make a forrunner to the accupoint that had a dial to change reticle color. would come in handy to deal with wash out maybe with your input trijicon will come out with a new milspec accupoint but im sure the cost will go up.

Quoted: Is that a red or amber reticle? Looks red to me, but I'm not quite sure. Also, when you look through the scope at 4x is it really that fuzzy at the edges? It also looks like there is spherical aberration present, but this could be completely due to the camera. Just wondering if that's how it looks at the edges looking through it in real life.

It's amber and the fuzziness is completely due to my cheap camera. Here's another pic under better lighting taken on an overcast day at 1.25x. It was taken with the same camera so it's still lacking somewhat.

Quoted: i know trijicon use to make a forrunner to the accupoint that had a dial to change reticle color. would come in handy to deal with wash out maybe with your input trijicon will come out with a new milspec accupoint but im sure the cost will go up.

What I'd like to see is a 1.5x6 version with a 30mm tube. That would really rock!

Quoted: Quoted: Is that a red or amber reticle? Looks red to me, but I'm not quite sure. Also, when you look through the scope at 4x is it really that fuzzy at the edges? It also looks like there is spherical aberration present, but this could be completely due to the camera. Just wondering if that's how it looks at the edges looking through it in real life. It's amber and the fuzziness is completely due to my cheap camera. Here's another pic under better lighting taken on an overcast day at 1.25x. It was taken with the same camera so it's still lacking somewhat. www.hunt101.com/img/102310.jpg

Cool! Thanks for the clarification. I figured that it was the camera and not the optic, but wanted to make sure!

The second picture you posted there definitely looks amber to me, but for some reason in the first picture it looks red.  I suppose it could be the lighting/background, or the camera though. I plan on getting one eventually and it will likely be red, so I will post a picture for comparison when I finally get it.

Thanks!

Quoted: I plan on getting one eventually and it will likely be red, so I will post a picture for comparison when I finally get it.

Great. The pics don't do the optic justice. Treat yourself to a look thru one outdoors sometime, you'll be impressed.

Quoted: 2011 why the pick of the 1x4 instead of the 3x9. also what were some of the future concepts trijicon was showing you. optics are starting to become like computers. by the time you get one its outdated.what type of optic would you recommend for the spr type upper. right now im running a 10x super sniper with a optima mounted on it. was looking for a varible scope but might get the 3x9 trijicon.thanks for your knowledge.

An optics selection really depends on the weapon platform and the combat role.

I am using the 1.25-4X TR21 on 10.3” CQBR’s as an all-purpose sight. The 4X capability offsets the 4” of barrel and velocity loss from the 14.5 “ with increased precision available at the touch of a dial for the INTERMEDIATE ranges. The 14.5” carbines simply do not work in the current urban/ vehicular mobility environment we are operating in.  The dual upper concept (a 10.3” and a 14.5” for one lower) under Murphy’s Law means you never have the right upper / optics Package installed when the SHTF.

The SPR is really a DMR / Sniper rifle package not an all-purpose carbine. For this application I would look at the Trijicon  TR22 a 2.5-10 X 50MM that was introduced at Shot 05 you might be able to live with the 2.5 for CQB without the stacked Optima, if not you still have it and can return to a stacked setup.  You will however gain NV capability but lose the Mil dots from your retical, it is all about what compermises you can live with.

Can't give details on the concepts.
Out
2011BLDR

.

Any news or reviews on the 2.5x10?

I have a TR22 2.5-10X on order for test and evaluation.   I am leaning toward the MK14 7.62MM application, not the 5.56MM carbines.
Out.
2011BLDR

Thank You Very Much! --   to everyone who contributed on this topic.

Very well reasoned and researched and an outstanding level of civility.

You managed to put everything all in one place.  I've got my mind made up and I've ordered a Trijicon AccuPoint TR21 with the amber reticle.

Only question I'll have to answer once I get it, will an Armalite one-piece mount place it far enough forward an an AR10?   (The receiver is about one and a half inches longer than an AR15 to accomodate the .308 cartridge)   Since I already have the Armalite mount from an earlier project, I'm going to hold off jumping on a Larue extended mount, as I may not need it.

tagged

This has to be one of the best threads on ARFCOM.

Quoted: A Combo that works well for both occasions is the Leupold CQT, 0 mag up to 3 power by the twist of the hand.hr

+1 I just picked one of these up on the EE and it's impressive

Quoted: This has to be one of the best threads on ARFCOM.

I agree.  Nicely done folks.

picked up a tr21r and mounted it. been doing alot of dry fire practice and can say without a doubt set on 1.25 my up close target speed is faster and clearer. with my ta31f at the last course i took i was fast but the sight picture was not as clean and would zoom in do to the 4x mag. im going to another course and will put it threw its paces. compared to my uso sn4 its a feather weight. optics are very clear and we will have to see how it holds up. thanks builder for the heads up on this optic. .builder have you guys run into any breakage of any kind ? do you know what size butler caps fit so i can protect the lense when not in use?if trijicon could make them bullet proof like the acogs lookout.

is this going to be pinned or what??  What an awsome thread!!!

Quoted: An optics selection really depends on the weapon platform and the combat role. I am using the 1.25-4X TR21 on 10.3” CQBR’s as an all-purpose sight. The 4X capability offsets the 4” of barrel and velocity loss from the 14.5 “ with increased precision available at the touch of a dial for the INTERMEDIATE ranges. The 14.5” carbines simply do not work in the current urban/ vehicular mobility environment we are operating in.  The dual upper concept (a 10.3” and a 14.5” for one lower) under Murphy’s Law means you never have the right upper / optics Package installed when the SHTF. The SPR is really a DMR / Sniper rifle package not an all-purpose carbine. For this application I would look at the Trijicon  TR22 a 2.5-10 X 50MM that was introduced at Shot 05 you might be able to live with the 2.5 for CQB without the stacked Optima, if not you still have it and can return to a stacked setup.  You will however gain NV capability but lose the Mil dots from your retical, it is all about what compermises you can live with. Can't give details on the concepts. Out 2011BLDR

MSTN Wes posted a thread about an "accurized" 10.3-inch upper somewhere, which would be right up your alley.  I think I would do a similar set up in a perfect world without the added expense and hassle of NFA regulations.  Down the road, I think I will do that.

Do you think the triangle is as precise for a DMR rifle?  I haven't played with either enough to make the determination myself.

Tag. Love the TR21 with an Amber reticle.  

ETA -this should be tacked.