Cold Hammer Forged Barrels ? - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Cold Hammer Forged Barrels ? (Page 3 of 3)

Posted: 10/9/2011 1:27:26 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Very few people will ever shoot their rifles hard enough to benefit from CHF barrels, but some people have actually had that benefit.

Monty of Centurion Arms was doing testing on weapons on the government dime, given his day job with the Navy

, and actually got to witness performance first hand as thousands upon thousands of rounds were fired through test guns, and CHF barrels objectively lasted longer.

Given that the average AR-15 owner doesn't put more than 1-2K through their AR in a year, CHF is not "needed", but it is nice to have. I mean, we don't need cars with more than 100 horsepower to commute around town, but I drive around with a LOT more horsepower than that.

CHF barrels for AR-15s are definitely a premium option, no need to knock it if you personally don't believe the value they offer.

Actually seeing the results of this type of testing would settle a lot of conjecture.

It seems simple enough :

This many button-rifled barrels averaged (x) thousand rounds before failing a certain standard, same number of CHF barrels averaged (x + n) rounds.

or, This many finished button-rifled barrels averaged a Rockwell hardness of HRC "x," finished CHF barrels averaged HRC "x + n."

But, for whatever reason, you never do.

See the Army's Extreme Dust testing in which H&K hammer forged barrels saw less long term firing wear in extreme condition compared to similar Colt barrels. This lead to one of the proposals of the PIP to include a CHF barrel.

I've read the results of those tests (that I can find), and they are almost exclusively concerned with comparing the number of stoppages induced in the weapons. The same number of rounds were fired in all the weapons, and I can't find any comparison of the amount of wear sustained. I'm not saying it's not there, just that I can't find it. The closest I have come is this PIP-related follow-up article in ArmyTimes, dated 2007 :

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/army_m4_hearing_071217w/

Quote: "Another upgrade under consideration is a "hammer-forged" barrel, (Brig. Gen.) Brown said.

While there is no timeline in place, Brown said switching to this specific manufacturing process could yield M4 barrels that “have a longer life.”

For a guy with access to what Brig. Gen. Brown would have access to, "could" is kind of under-whelming, but it seems to be as close as I'm going to get.

One of the reports on the test talks to chamber and bore erosion and the CHF barrels having less under similar conditions.

The reason they said "could" is most troops will never shoot their guns to the point that "could" becomes a reality. Lets face it a 10,000 round pre-deployment work up is rare and most infantrymen will only do a 1-2000 round work up and most non-combat arms will only shoot a 300-400 round prior to deployment.

Posted: 10/9/2011 2:50:50 AM EDT

[#2]

If the price difference wasn't extreme, I would take CHF over traditionally made barrel. I personally feel the odds are better of getting a quality barrel with the CHF process then other methods due to tooling wear and/or idiot employees. I will admit I'm biased because I got a bad AR traditional barrel that had such a rough chamber that brass could not be extracted. I had to send the upper in to get a new barrel (thankfully under warranty). The chamber on CHF barrels are usually much smoother.

I own AR's with traditional CL barrels and one AR with a DD CHF CL barrel. I'm much more impressed with the DD barrel. With that being said, I wouldn't pay $100+ extra to get a CHF barrel over a quality CL traditional barrel.

I wish the poll had an option to for people like me that prefer CHF barrels but its not an absolute necessity.

Posted: 10/9/2011 5:06:56 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
If the price difference wasn't extreme, I would take CHF over traditionally made barrel. I personally feel the odds are better of getting a quality barrel with the CHF process then other methods due to tooling wear and/or idiot employees. I will admit I'm biased because I got a bad AR traditional barrel that had such a rough chamber that brass could not be extracted. I had to send the upper in to get a new barrel (thankfully under warranty). The chamber on CHF barrels are usually much smoother.

I own AR's with traditional CL barrels and one AR with a DD CHF CL barrel. I'm much more impressed with the DD barrel. With that being said, I wouldn't pay $100+ extra to get a CHF barrel over a quality CL traditional barrel.

I wish the poll had an option to for people like me that prefer CHF barrels but its not an absolute necessity.

Being as chambers are cut separate of the rifling process I dont see how your logic could hold water.

Posted: 10/9/2011 1:28:56 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If the price difference wasn't extreme, I would take CHF over traditionally made barrel. I personally feel the odds are better of getting a quality barrel with the CHF process then other methods due to tooling wear and/or idiot employees. I will admit I'm biased because I got a bad AR traditional barrel that had such a rough chamber that brass could not be extracted. I had to send the upper in to get a new barrel (thankfully under warranty). The chamber on CHF barrels are usually much smoother.

I own AR's with traditional CL barrels and one AR with a DD CHF CL barrel. I'm much more impressed with the DD barrel. With that being said, I wouldn't pay $100+ extra to get a CHF barrel over a quality CL traditional barrel.

I wish the poll had an option to for people like me that prefer CHF barrels but its not an absolute necessity.

Being as chambers are cut separate of the rifling process I dont see how your logic could hold water.

The chamber is made during the CHF process instead of cut after the fact.

a mandrel is inserted into the bore while the carbide steel hammers shape the barrel around the mandrel creating the chamber, the lands, and the grooves.

From basic DD CHF barrel description

Posted: 11/1/2011 6:23:42 AM EDT

[#5]

The links on the second page show accuracy testing with AR's....also the technical report on CHF was quite good.

After reading the links and this thread, which is pretty good once actual data was presented, I have no qualms with a CHF barrel.

Then again, I like european cars.

Posted: 12/25/2011 7:32:30 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
I have my PSA lower built, and trying to decide where to go on my Upper, the two i came down to are both PSA's, one is 4150, and one is FN's CHF that PSA uses in half their offerings now.

I am looking to go with 16' middy, and like the Troy TRX standard rail, but the one below is a carbine length gas system, and i have asked them if it would be possible to do in mid-length.

The Dissipator, is mid-length at 16’, and since it has the lower gas block I could change it all out down the road. Just like to remove the front site as well. If you take all the extras out it comes to about 40-50.00 difference between 4150 vs. hammer forged.

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2537.php

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2265.php

I never saw a comment tot his. The Button barrels are Wilson, known quality and the HF are FN again known quality. Is the HF FN barrel that much better than the Wilson?

Posted: 12/25/2011 7:38:33 PM EDT

[#7]

I just picked up a FNAR. With a HF barrel. It is a very accurate rifle.

Posted: 12/25/2011 8:03:51 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have my PSA lower built, and trying to decide where to go on my Upper, the two i came down to are both PSA's, one is 4150, and one is FN's CHF that PSA uses in half their offerings now.

I am looking to go with 16' middy, and like the Troy TRX standard rail, but the one below is a carbine length gas system, and i have asked them if it would be possible to do in mid-length.

The Dissipator, is mid-length at 16’, and since it has the lower gas block I could change it all out down the road. Just like to remove the front site as well. If you take all the extras out it comes to about 40-50.00 difference between 4150 vs. hammer forged.

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2537.php

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2265.php

I never saw a comment tot his. The Button barrels are Wilson, known quality and the HF are FN again known quality. Is the HF FN barrel that much better than the Wilson?

Not all PSA 4150 non hammer forged barrels are made by wilson. Any barrels described as MPI. are FN made barrels. Any barrels made by Wilson won't mention MPI but will mention lead lapped. Wilson doesn't MPI. And FN does make other barrels besides the hammer forged. So if it states MPI in the description then it is a FN made barrel HF or not.

Posted: 12/25/2011 8:23:13 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have my PSA lower built, and trying to decide where to go on my Upper, the two i came down to are both PSA's, one is 4150, and one is FN's CHF that PSA uses in half their offerings now.

I am looking to go with 16' middy, and like the Troy TRX standard rail, but the one below is a carbine length gas system, and i have asked them if it would be possible to do in mid-length.

The Dissipator, is mid-length at 16’, and since it has the lower gas block I could change it all out down the road. Just like to remove the front site as well. If you take all the extras out it comes to about 40-50.00 difference between 4150 vs. hammer forged.

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2537.php

http://www.palmettostatearmory.com/2265.php

Good to know, that means the uppers on sale are both FN just HF and non HF flavors. Thanks.
I never saw a comment tot his. The Button barrels are Wilson, known quality and the HF are FN again known quality. Is the HF FN barrel that much better than the Wilson?

Not all PSA 4150 non hammer forged barrels are made by wilson. Any barrels described as MPI. are FN made barrels. Any barrels made by Wilson won't mention MPI but will mention lead lapped. Wilson doesn't MPI. And FN does make other barrels besides the hammer forged. So if it states MPI in the description then it is a FN made barrel HF or not.

Good to know, that means ones on sale are FN's just HF and non-HF flavors.

Posted: 12/25/2011 8:33:38 PM EDT

[#10]

Yep. If it's MPI then it is a PSA FN barrel.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Cold Hammer Forged Barrels ? (Page 3 of 3)

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