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Posted: 9/14/2005 9:11:39 AM EDT
[#1]
I guess that's what I was getting at. Standardization is good. free improvements are good. What's the downside? I see none. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 3:40:26 PM EDT
[#2]
This was a very informative thread. I recently ordered a complete Armalite upper and when I received it, I immediately inspected for the M4 ramps. The ramps were on the upper, but it appeared to have the standard extension. As shown on the pictures early in this thread, there was a lip that potentially could cause headaches. I called Armalite and explained the situation and they said they would inspect it. They (she) explained that I might have to pay $70 to fix the problem (!) I'm still waiting on the upper to come back or a call from Armalite (its been about 3 weeks).
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Posted: 9/19/2005 4:00:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Now that's a load of BULLSHIT!  Why should you pay to fix a problem caused by the improper manufacturing of the company you bought the product from?  If it proves to be what you're describing then it's Armalite's responsibilty to make sure you get an upper that matches the barrel extension of whatever barrel they installed! Hopefully Armalite steps up to the plate and fixes this at no cost to you. Keep us posted on what happens. |
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Posted: 9/19/2005 4:14:18 PM EDT
[#4]
A lifetime warranty shouldn't cost $70 for repair. I bet the phone turd had her wires crossed. (sneaking over to safe to check my Armalites.......) M15T has M4 ramps and correct upper. M15CAR has neither. Now I can sleep tonight.... 
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Posted: 9/19/2005 4:23:13 PM EDT
[#5]
+1 I have a frankengun I got on a trade with Dremeled ramps. That is the gun I shoot the most, and there is no damage (double checking) nope, still no damage. I am sure that this mod will make some folks wet the bed just thinking about it..... 
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Posted: 9/30/2005 10:29:59 PM EDT
[#6]
I hjust posted in another thread on the carbon 15 - I also have had the FTF issues, sent the rifle back to BM, and they sent me a new upper with the barrel extension protruding 3-4mm past the wall of the receiver. The issue with this is that after 200 rounds, the tips of the rounds catch on the BE ramps. Not good. I'd say for maximum reliability, and SHTF rifle specs, you want to stick with aluminum, and you want to stick with m4 (can I say that - please don't sue me colt) -style ramps.
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Posted: 10/1/2005 1:04:34 AM EDT
[#7]
that's bad, does the carrier stick out the rear of the upper? are the mags hard to seat?
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Posted: 10/1/2005 2:25:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Sweet, Ive had M4 feedramps for 5 years without even knowing it. My rifle used to jam a lot. Now that I know about my M4 ramps, it functions 100%. Wish i would have known about them before.
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Posted: 10/1/2005 3:11:06 AM EDT
[#9]
positive thinking is a powerful force
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Posted: 10/1/2005 3:20:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Thanks for the information
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Posted: 10/1/2005 5:55:52 AM EDT
[#11]
So just knowing that you had M4 ramps cleared up your problem? 
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Posted: 10/4/2005 10:02:27 AM EDT
[#12]
I just tried out a new Armalite carbine upper I recently ordered . The cartridge fails to feed properly and sticks in the discontinous feed ramp as pictured in the previous post. I've contacted Armalite by e-mail but so far have had no response. The upper is basicially useless unless Armalite repairs it. I'm appalled that they may be charging $70 to repair a gross defect.
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Posted: 10/4/2005 1:09:33 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 10/17/2005 9:30:25 PM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 11/2/2005 4:02:36 PM EDT
[#15]
I though my Bushmaster M4gery had M4 feed ramps for 2 1/2 years. It was a real SHTF life saver for 2 1/2 years. Not a single failure of any kind...... untill I found out it did not have M4 feed ramps. After that I couldnt count on it to plung the toilet. 
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Posted: 11/2/2005 7:16:08 PM EDT
[#16]
DID SOMEONE SAY M4 FEED RAMPS!!!!!!!!!!??????????
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Posted: 11/2/2005 8:09:20 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 11/3/2005 5:21:25 AM EDT
[#18]
What Armalite distributor sold you the upper? An Armalite factory upper should have the proper feed ramps and I doubt Armalite would charge you a dime to fix something they had screwed up. Tell us about where this upper came from...
Two factory Armalite uppers for an example of how they should look: 
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Posted: 11/3/2005 7:04:11 AM EDT
[#19]
Dumb question here, but do both of those uppers have the M4 feed ramps? Why does one appear to have a drastically different & longer cut into the upper? Or are they both exactly the same & the camera angle is creating an optical illusion?
I recently got an LMT upper that is suppose to have the M4 ramps and the cuts in the upper look more like the picture on the left. |
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Posted: 11/3/2005 7:40:21 AM EDT
[#20]
The one on the left is gonna have some serious problems ......... The rampls don't match the extension at all. The one on the right looks great. Why the big difference in styles when it comes to the width and depth of certain ramps...? Colt ramps arent' nearly as deep as the sample on the left...... Patent stuff?
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Posted: 11/3/2005 8:28:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Its not uncommon to see a difference between uppers and extensions since they are made separately on different machines. Does not cause a function issue - I guess that's one advantage to the dremel cuts huh
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Posted: 11/3/2005 8:55:04 AM EDT
[#22]
RustyTX, Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but the upper on the left looks a bit off. The feed ramps are defintely different from the one on the right. On the one on the left it looks like the receiver ramps are wider and go lower than the one on right. You can also see how much closer the receiver feed ramp is to the flat area at the bottom of the receiver. It also looks like the one on the left has rifle barrel extention. Looks like Armalite has some QC issues... ETA: I just read you reply above and I think it's screwed up that Armalite is unable to machine uniform feed ramps. |
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Posted: 11/3/2005 9:45:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Not sure what you're seeing Yojimbo. Its hard to get a good pic of both uppers - seems to fisheye a little but here goes again:
Here's a RRA compared to the upper you think looks jacked up. I 'think' you can see the difference in the extensions - I can in person anyway. 
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Posted: 11/3/2005 9:56:34 AM EDT
[#24]
RustyTX,
Sorry about that, I corrected my post above where I mentioned the one in on the right looking off. I meant the one on the left. I circled the areas so you can see what I'm talking about.  To me it clearly looks like a lot more material was removed from the upper receiver on the left. On the pic comparing it to the RRA, it still looks like it has rifle extentions to me. Maybe it's an illusion caused by the larger than normal receiver ramps...
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Posted: 11/3/2005 12:23:55 PM EDT
[#25]
I agree RustyTX. Something is not right with those ramps. |
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Posted: 11/3/2005 1:21:47 PM EDT
[#26]
You guys stop! I'll be forced to test fire it and keep it!
It does look unique from the others we have on hand... I think its a different barrel extension than we usually see. I'll compare to some others as I handle them. The latest shipment of rifles look like the other one while this one looks more like my last LMT upper... I'll look at it tonight too.
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Posted: 11/3/2005 4:44:10 PM EDT
[#27]
Come on you posted the pics. Everyone can see the one on the left is FUBAR.
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Posted: 11/4/2005 5:10:48 AM EDT
[#28]
? - I posted the pics for robo15 - he says he has an Armalite upper with bad ramps - so here's one that looks like normal and one that's different than the rest - both Armalite. Maybe his looks like that and causes a problem and its good info for the board - or maybe not. Are you saying I should not show the pics for some reason? |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 11:56:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Here are pics from my armalite upper - from a carbine length rifle. These are AFTER I modified the Barrel Extension to be wider than what I'd characterize as rifle ramps on the BE when new in box. I didn't modify the upper which had larger ramps than on the barrel, although not as bad as the first few pics in this thread showing rifle/m4 mismatch. http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/israfil_/feed_ramp_1.jpg http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/israfil_/feed_ramp_2.jpg |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 12:28:01 PM EDT
[#30]
IMHO, you shouldn't have touched it. Those ramps look rough as hell! Why didn't you just send it back to Armalite and have them fix it? |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 12:49:48 PM EDT
[#31]
I took a little round file I had and some 320 grit paper and made "m4 ramps" on my rifle. Several thousand rounds later no wear....
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Posted: 11/4/2005 12:51:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Dude you need at least some 320 grit sandpaper and a small wooded dowel!!! |
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Posted: 11/4/2005 1:09:29 PM EDT
[#33]
yeah - it looks bad in the pic I agree - but I have polished it with successive grits until it shines like a mirror (which is why it looks crappy - it's reflecting the surrounding area)! I don't have updated pics though. . .
Rounds slide on up like a greased pig. |
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Posted: 11/5/2005 4:50:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Found another pic when I was polishing it - if you look close you can see my hand reflecting in the left feed ramp. . .
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c280/israfil_/feed_ramp_3.jpg |
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Posted: 11/7/2005 2:47:28 PM EDT
[#35]
I apologize for the late response. Anyway, I finally received my upper back from Armalite which took almost two months. What I got back was a dremeled fix! In fact, the tool they used hacked some of the anodizing off an edge no where near the ramps. Needless to say, I am VERY disappointed with the repair. I was not charged for the repair, but I had to pay for the shipping back to the factory.
After playing phone tag with the rep for a few weeks, I finally got a hold of her and explained how I felt about the repair. I basically said that I ordered a new upper and expected a new one back. She wasn't rude about it, but I got the distinct feeling that I was going to be stuck with this upper. I then asked her if Armalite produced any uppers with matched components that did not need any modifications. She said she would have to look for one and that the repair done was common. Its been a little over a week and I have not heard back yet. I started the phone tag thing again. This whole project started after my wife bought this rifle second hand as a gift to me. It had many malfunctions and I started replacing parts at the recommendation of a respected armorer. It still had problems. Being that it was a former SWAT gun, I imagine a lot rounds had gone through it. So I bit the bullet and invested $521 on a new upper... to get this (?!) My wife has had it with the whole situation and she's a lot angrier about than I am. I'm not the "whining maggot" type, but I feel Armalite has to step to the plate on this one. Customer service seems to be everything to a business these days and my confidence with Armalite is down a bit. This was my first dealing with them. When I hear back, I'll post the results. |
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Posted: 11/7/2005 2:56:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Just to add, I found out the rifle was bought at a law enforcement dealer in another state. The original owner said he bought the rifle as a unit, so it probably was not pieced together. The original upper did not have the M4 ramps.
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Posted: 12/10/2005 9:27:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Update
After reading this thread, I called Colt and they admitted some got through this way (white ramps and no "M4" or "4" stamp). They said ship the upper back and they would take care of it for free. Keep in mind that my 6920 was now over 7 years old! I sent it to them, but it was a waste of my time and shipping money. They put some black stuff (Alumahyde?) on the white ramps, but it came right off the first time I shot it since getting it back. I've given up on them. It ran fine before, still did after, and I maintain it enough to know it won't rust. I could care less if some computer nerd at a carbine class comes up and says, "There's no M4 stamp, its not real."  |
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Posted: 12/11/2005 2:13:51 AM EDT
[#38]
The cuts on this upper receiver are just crazy deep, not even close to a real M4 cut. Yes, they appear anodized but are no where near the spec. Good luck if ya have to change out the barrel. You will be firing up the ol' dremmel again.  It looks to me like Armalite is pulling the Dremmelled game. Pictured below are real M4 ramps. They are not deep into the lower receiver, not much more than dimples. The barrel extension is where most of the ramping occurs. The real M4 ramps are wide and at a different angle than standard Rifle ramps. Here are a couple of pics of real M4 ramps.   Pic of the proper cuts on a true M4 upper.  Now you guys have the real deal to compare to and make your own conclusions. To me the Armalite upper on the left looks totally wrong and the one on the right looks fair but the pic is not a good enough shot to say for sure. The upper cuts look too deep but the barrel extension pretty well matches the upper but still does not look like true M4 but it does look like it will function. Maybe this is just Armalites version of an extended ramp. Denny |
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Posted: 12/11/2005 4:33:36 AM EDT
[#39]
added a couple more pics
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Posted: 12/11/2005 8:29:20 AM EDT
[#40]
Kisara: You can use a photo of my 6920 "M4" stamp to fight off the computer nerd's - Just in case one day you do care TEAM AR15! I got your back! [
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Posted: 12/11/2005 8:58:18 AM EDT
[#41]
I can tell you in the ~5000 or so rounds through my AR, lack of M4 feedramps have been responsible for aboslutly zero problems.
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Posted: 12/11/2005 12:52:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Only 5,000. How about over 100,000 over the years. On an in spec rifle most FTF can be traced to the magazine or ammo. That said we are now shooting a wider range of projo's and decidedly in the direction of heavier and heavier bullets. It is now my belief that M4 ramps do no harm and MAY be a little reliability insurance as we experiment with different bullet weights and dimensions, ogives etc. Denny PS My personal M16A1's are still runnin' strong and have zero issues as long as the mags are good and the ammo is 55gr ball. Dennh |
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Posted: 12/11/2005 3:48:33 PM EDT
[#43]
My bushmaster M4 that I recently bought has standard feed ramps. That is kind of weird since it is advertised as an M4.
No FTFs so far. Only tried about 4 or 5 types of ammo. |
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Posted: 12/23/2005 6:32:13 AM EDT
[#44]
I was looking for this trhread...
Gald i found it again!! |
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Posted: 12/23/2005 11:54:57 AM EDT
[#45]
So which uppers can we purchase knowing for sure that it will have the M4 cuts? Which barrels? I plan on building a few uppers and want to be sure that I get real M4 ramps.
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Posted: 1/10/2006 5:21:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Are these are M4 feed ramps? I would like to know if they are aligned correctly. What does the "L" stand for?
 
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Posted: 1/10/2006 6:32:47 PM EDT
[#47]
I recently got a DPMS CMP Service Rifle upper and it has the same feed ramps as the M4. So it is obviously an advantage in maintaining reliability.
So why dont the mfg'ers to it to all the uppers??? |
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Posted: 1/10/2006 6:34:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
Are these are M4 feed ramps? I would like to know if they are aligned correctly. What does the "L" stand for? Left?
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Posted: 1/15/2006 12:04:42 AM EDT
[#49]
LMT extensions are marked with the "L" stamp. The M4 extension in this picture is an LMT: 
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Posted: 1/15/2006 6:29:17 PM EDT
[#50]
ogcujo,
Great photography. What did you use and do to get those shots? By the way your photo looks like real M4's to me. |
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