I'll eat beans and drink cheap beer for a month if I have to  

The question is will you give up beer all together for a month?

As long as I can dip into my whiskey supply then I can make it happen

damn, I knew this sale was going to get me sooner or later. ordered a 20" stealth barrel...

Mark, are the gas ports in your barrels purposefully drilled in a groove or are they drilled at random?

Tech forum discussing technical aspects of barrels.

In this thread we're talking about your barrels and Krieger barrels.

No hate, just an honest question.

Mark, feel free to quote my "hate" posts.

Unless the discussion of facts counts as hate, I believe you are mistaken.

I appologize for asking direct questions about your product.

How does Krieger fare in other venues for accuracy?

Okay. Is the point of buying a barrel to win the Arfcom MOA challenge? I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Very poor logic, there, sir.   Unless people are actually entering this form of competition with an equal number of Kreiger barrels, and the shooters have equal skills, the data is absolutely worthless for such comparisons.  All the data tells me is that Larue makes barrels that do perform well in the hands of good shooters.  It does not tell us how the same shooter would have fared with a Kreiger barrel, or any other barrel under the same conditions.

As to other competition, I note that in International Bench Rest competition at the national championship level, Kreiger seems to be a pretty dominant player.  Top 20 finishers in national competition last year by barrel maker in order of finish:

Kreiger
Krieger
Krieger
Krieger
Brux
Brux
Lilja
Krieger
Lilja
Krieger
Rock Creek
Krieger
Hart
Krieger
Lilja
Bartlein
Lilja
Krieger
Broughton
Rock Creek

International Bench Rest is probably the most demanding shooting sport in terms of absolute precision in barrel manufacturing as those barrels on the rifles at the top of the rankings are shooting aggregate groups very much tighter than anything we are seeing in the MOA challenge.  And, because they can use methods of supporting the rifle (depending on the class) that may be more restrictive than allowed in the Challenge, the results are perhaps a better indicator of barrel performance.  The winner in Light Varmint shot a five group aggregate, five shots per group of .1556" at 100 yards with a Kreiger barrel.  In the Sporter Class, even lighter rifles, the winner shot .1666" aggregate at 100 yards, also with a Kreiger barrel.

Perhaps the most valid conclusion to be drawn is that not many people here with Kreiger barrels are entering the MOA Challenge, because either they are not interested in this form of competition, prefer some other demonstration of their barrel performance, or that, for whatever reason, there just aren't as many Kreiger barrels being sold/   Regardless, the sanctioned, refereed national benchrest results, suggest that Kreiger barrels are extremely good. FWIW, my AR precision barrel is a Recce 16" Lilja, so I have no direct "dog in the hunt" as between Larue and Kreiger.  I do own other products from Larue and hold them in high regard.  I'm not diminishing the quality of Larue barrels.  I am saying that efforts to diminish the quality of Kreiger and other barrel makers cannot be supported by data from the Challenge rankings.  That is a very flawed statistical method.  Good for marketing, though.

His reply is an answer.  The ports are drilled, if they fall in a land or a groove isn't taken into consideration.

I wouldn't expect Krieger-level attention to detail in a $225 barrel.

I picked up a stealth barrel.  It'll be compared against a rainier ultramatch and a rock creek barrel.  10 shot groups.  I've just got to buy some decent glass for the stealth-barreled rifle before I can do it.

I expect it to do quite well.  As to the scope/mount, I'm working on it.

I have to save my pennies to buy glass that goes on top so spending $500-$800 for a bore scope is out of the question for now.

You guys are still arguing this? This is ARFCOM, the proper answer is to get both.


Krieger in the rifle, Larues on deck and in the hole.

Barrels are wear items, try both. The Krieger above is this rifle's 4th barrel.

Without access to a borescope, one can use the poor man's method of spotting the gas port's location within the bore.

Gently insert a toothpick into the gas port, look into the bore from the muzzle end and observe.

Couldn't agree more. I would argue that the work involved in finishing the blank into a complete barrel is more important than rifling the blank. Doubly true for an AR barrel since there is more involved.

 
Krieger seems to dominate in the high power world.


Mr. LaRue, if you can get me a 20"  threaded barrel with an approved profile for high power competition (I honestly don't know what the rules on this are), I can get it in the hands of a high master / distinguished  high power / service rifle shooter to test against his issued Krieger barrels. I believe they use set screw style FSBs on match barrels, so it wouldn't need a pinned FSB. Then we could see how it does with irons and a really good Indian out to 600 yards.

 
It's funny you mention scopes. He noted that his team got scopes this year, 1-4x I believe. I guess that's the new thing in high power.


I'll see if he's interested in shooting the 1MOA challenge once he gets the scope installed. He's not an ARFCOMMER, nor a big internet guy.


Looking at the list, it's hard to believe that my once #14-15 spot is now down in the 30s. All them LaRue barrel entries are keeping me down.


#AllBarrelsMatter

I think he is saying to take your barrel to real sanctioned and referreed competition.  Seems reasonable.

As much as I would love to see how the Larue barrels would do in those competitions by truly skilled marksman, Mark's response is pretty reasonable. Taking the existing rifle and shooting some groups with them is much easier than rebarreling and seeing how it does throughout a season. Ammo is provided so 25 rounds to spare should be easy. 4.5X scope might not be the best, but who cares? It's just a fun shoot.

ETA: Speaking of issue ammo, I found 2 more boxes of this. Trying to decide whether I want to shoot it and deal with the moly coating.

Ewwwwww, moly.

Except for the sanctioned and refereed part.

Which makes it official and unquestionable, versus joe blow in his backyard or at a range claiming to have acheived a certain MOA.

You're right, maybe I'll just send them to Molon instead.

This thread is a constant source of entertainment/amusement.  I don't think anyone can question that both barrels are top notch. So, in the absence of anyone being able to prove that one is consistently and measurably better than the other, I'm gonna sit here and wait for two more $225 kick ass barrels to arrive at my door.  I'd love to shoot a Krieger too, but not until I see some compelling evidence that it's worth the extra cash.  At some point if this argument is going to end, someone will have to agree on the standard by which the barrels are being evaluated.

Easy there buddy, I bought one of your triggers.