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Posted: 4/24/2003 9:08:51 AM EDT
[#1]
AARRRRRGGGG I should send them a bill for this shit !! [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=11160[/img]
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Posted: 4/24/2003 9:20:09 AM EDT
[#2]
RCBS amkes a tool for getting that out but I am sure most of you knew that. Anyway only way I got mine out was to screw the stem all the way in until it pushed the brass out far enough that I could get it out. Then I backed the knurled stem knob off the stem itself so that the case and sizing stem could be removed.
The RCBS tool wouldnt't work for me as the deprimming rod was in the way. I probably went the long way about this but I got it done with tearing anything up. |
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Posted: 4/24/2003 9:48:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: As for the stems , I was going to send Lee three bullets . A Remington 300 gr hp , Remington 405 gr sp and a Barnes 300 gr spitzer . I think those should cover all bases . I think they should be able to make one stem work on the 300 gr hp and the 405 sp and one more for the spitzer . I will work with them more on this once the ball is rolling . Wow nilly....Don't forget the 500gr Barnes RN....Those are popular too! |
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Posted: 4/24/2003 10:26:23 AM EDT
[#4]
I need something to shove these 600gr Barnes Originals in too! [:|]
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Posted: 4/24/2003 10:33:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Would you guys be willing to provide sample bullets ? I have no problem with having several stems but lets get together and agree on maybe three or four tops ok .If you send me sample bullets I will include them in with the others . IM me for address .
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Posted: 4/24/2003 12:23:25 PM EDT
[#6]
I would think that the 500gr Barnes RN would utilize the same stem as the Remington 300 gr hp if the stem was not too long.
--LS |
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Posted: 4/24/2003 12:49:40 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm in!!!
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Posted: 4/24/2003 3:38:29 PM EDT
[#8]
so it might be possible to make:
1 stem cover Remington 300gr HP, Barnes 500rg RN (if stem is not too long), and possibly the Remington 405gr SP. Then there would be a second stem for the Barnes 300gr Spritzer. And a third stem for the original Barnes 600gr bullets. Thats what i gather from the last few posts. |
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Posted: 4/24/2003 4:02:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Count me in also!!!
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Posted: 4/24/2003 4:43:31 PM EDT
[#10]
I don't reload yet; but I don't want to have to order anything again. Just want to pick it off the shelf at gun store.
Put me down for the deluxe ,4 piece, $70 or whatever it's called. I would like to say that my upper and brass delivery both have been very professional. Thanks again to Marty and Ed. |
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Posted: 4/24/2003 5:20:51 PM EDT
[#11]
I haven't been able to get my ch4d dies to work to my satisfaction yet. I have made a couple of my own seating stems and I haven't tried them yet. I have also polished the dies on my lathe. If they don't work for me this weekend you can count me in on this deal as well.
BTW I am not a machinist, I bought a lathe at an auction and have tought myself. Just four weeks ago I cut threads for the first time. If I had made the dies myself I wouldn't have shown anyone, I would have been embarrassed. Ok, that may have been a little extreme.The threading is very rough and the inside of the dies are very rough compared to all the other dies I have. The seating stem doesn't look finished either. Yes, they are that bad. |
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Posted: 4/24/2003 6:40:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Ok guys , If you have concerns about a particular bullet I need a sample no latter than next Thursday.I want to put this project on the fast tract so lets move . I am calling Lee on Tuesday to hammer out the details and express some of our concerns with the stems ,and any others you guys can come up with . I'm sure there will be an extra charge for the additional stems . Also some have expressed interest in some sort of a stem for trimming , I'm not familiar with that trim system but , that will be extra . Buy Friday I would like to have solid prices and start getting moneys together from those who are committed ok . Please keep up with the thread as I don't want someone getting left out .
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Posted: 4/24/2003 6:53:41 PM EDT
[#13]
I spoke with John Lee and one of his custom shop guys, and faxed this morning a set consisting of reamer dimensions, go/no-go gauge dimensions and cartridge design dimensions. I will be sending a sampling of fired cases as well, and in the fax mentioned that Pahrump would be sending bullet samples.
Would you guys believe that since forming the very first case in late 2000 I have not torn a singular rim? I do not know whether I have a "different" set of dies as mine were the very first set. Also, Potsqually mentioned a difference in brass thickness between the old 50AE-based stuff and the new dedicated stuff, but I have not seen any evidence of this .... Maybe I am just lucky when it comes to forming these? In any event, Lee now should have all they need aside from the cases and bullets. Marty BTW, I tested the following today: Fluxion, Holeshot4 and Lawndart. I should be cleaning them and prepping for shipment. |
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Posted: 4/24/2003 6:55:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Well, I tried reloading some Hornady 300gr HPs tonight, unsuccessfully. The resizing die appears to work OK. However, the seating die with the long stem as shipped from CH4D is useless. The stem is too long and the cup on the end is too deep for this bullet. The tip of the bullet was mangled by the cup on the stem. I had the stem screwed out about as far as it would go and still stay in the die, and not sure if there was room to properly seat the bullet or not, as I was unable to seat a bullet. This was due to the fact that the bullet would try seating at a slight angle and stick. I'm also of the opinion that, at least with this bullet, a neck expander die is possibly necessary and definitely desirable.
Frankly, with so many bullet styles and weights, we need a set of seating stems. I think we also need a 4 die set to cover all the bases: resizing, neck expander, bullet seating, and crimping dies. We may not need all of them all the time, but it can't hurt to have them all available. Finally, I'm of the opinion that CH4D shipped all the GP dies with the wrong stem. I emailed Dave at CH4D about this and got a bit of a run around. I'm not happy about that either. What's the secret password to get Dave to pay attention? Am I ever gonna get to shoot this damn thing? [:(] |
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Posted: 4/24/2003 8:06:17 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: The tip of the bullet was mangled by the cup on the stem. I had the stem screwed out about as far as it would go and still stay in the die, and not sure if there was room to properly seat the bullet or not, as I was unable to seat a bullet. This was due to the fact that the bullet would try seating at a slight angle and stick. I'm also of the opinion that, at least with this bullet, a neck expander die is possibly necessary and definitely desirable. FWIW, Marvl, my 300 gr JHPs got mangled by the original stem, too, but I was able to seat them reliably after chamfering my cases; I didn't need a neck expander. |
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Posted: 4/24/2003 8:08:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: nyway only way I got mine out was to screw the stem all the way in until it pushed the brass out far enough that I could get it out. Then I backed the knurled stem knob off the stem itself so that the case and sizing stem could be removed. Yeah, I tried that, but apparently the expanding ball was stuck because I sheared the decapping rod while unscrewing it. |
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Posted: 4/25/2003 5:52:48 AM EDT
[#17]
Also, Potsqually mentioned a difference in brass thickness between the old 50AE-based stuff and the new dedicated stuff, but I have not seen any evidence of this .... Marty, this was an assumption that in seating the bullet to the crimp line and getting higher pressures than you experienced that the current brass was thicker than the stuff you used when developing the loads. All I know is that I an not seating to 2.02 but in fact I am seating to 2.08 which is right at the crimp line and I am still getting higher pressures. I can't load w296 any higher than 37gr without flattening primers or marring the base of the rim. I loaded the 50AE cases again just to test it and forgot to weigh them against a 458 case just for grins and giggles. |
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Posted: 4/25/2003 2:37:05 PM EDT
[#18]
I guess I had better get in on this one too. I haven't tried the CH4D dies yet, but I know I wasn't impressed with the looks of them. They also sent me the long seating stem. All my other dies are Lee's. And I have absolutely no problems with them. I really don't think you can beat them for the price. Eric |
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Posted: 4/25/2003 3:04:31 PM EDT
[#19]
holeshot,
I called CH4D today and said I wanted to talk to someone about a problem with .458 SOCOM reloading dies. The lady that answered the phone said "seating die stem?" [;)] They put the correct one in the mail to me. You might want to give them a call too. |
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Posted: 4/25/2003 4:06:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Marty, I have to agree with you on the dies. I have been reloading with these dies since 2000 & have had no problems! I admit the dies were a little rough but had no rims torn off. There must be somthing we are missing here. Just my 2cents. Thanks, 458Ron
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Posted: 4/25/2003 6:04:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Well, let's see, your dies are about 3 years old, ours are about 3 months old. I wonder what could be different. [rolleyes]
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Posted: 4/25/2003 6:43:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Count me in for a set:
Quoted: Would you guys believe that since forming the very first case in late 2000 I have not torn a singular rim? I do not know whether I have a "different" set of dies as mine were the very first set. [red]Also, Potsqually mentioned a difference in brass thickness between the old 50AE-based stuff and the new dedicated stuff, but I have not seen any evidence of this ....[/red] Maybe I am just lucky when it comes to forming these? Marty Question - did anyone weigh both cases? Is there a weight variation between the Starline and the modified 50AE? |
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Posted: 4/25/2003 7:16:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Regarding the differences in the "old" brass and the new brass, I have to snicker a bit.
The old brass was made by Starline on 50AE machines, simply not trimmed and subjected to a different case head trimmer (one that matches the 45 ACP as opposed to the 50AE) The [s]old[/s] new brass was made by Starline on 50AE machines, simply [s]not[/s] trimmed to 1.575" and subjected to a different case head trimmer (one that matches the 45 ACP as opposed to the 50AE) as well as using a different headstamp. As you can see, they are the same .... I got a chance to see Brouhaha's dies today, and indeed, the seater plug is WAY different from the one I have. Also, I showed him the chamfering trick and it works for me. Now, he still is having some issues that I haven't figured out, but chamfering can make all the difference. Potsqually - indeed, a COL of 2.08 versus 2.02 should not have yielded overpressure. But the loads listed are absolute max, and it would appear they are reflecting this. I personally download to 37.0 or 37.5 with the 300 gr simply because I don't need the abuse when firing several uppers for function testing .... While the brass (50AE v. 458) should be the same, I cannot explain why one would not show the overpressure and the other would ... then again, I have a picture of ten rounds, all the same load, and several look WAY too hot, and others look OK, all within the same batch. Bear in mind that the RCBS scale is only good to +/- 0.2 grain, and that while 38.0 may be OK, 38.2 is too much, but you would never know with our equipment. This is why Jimmy at the shop now uses one of our lab scales (+/- 0.0015 grain!) for his 300 Lapua Magnum. Shooting 5" groups at 1,000 yards, he has to load that accurately ..... Marty |
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Posted: 4/25/2003 7:41:10 PM EDT
[#24]
[b]This is why Jimmy at the shop now uses one of our lab scales (+/- 0.0015 grain!) for his 300 Lapua Magnum. Shooting 5" groups at 1,000 yards, he has to load that accurately .....[/b] He is not serious about it if he doesn't cut powder grains in half to get it exact .LOL[;)][:)]
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Posted: 4/28/2003 4:46:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Ok , I need a count of how many want a case trimmer stem also ?
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Posted: 4/28/2003 5:15:21 AM EDT
[#26]
I realize Caveman doesn't own or use the Lee trimmer system so allow me to make one correction. I don't know where they term trimmer stem comes from, but what we need is called a "Case Length Gauge & Shellholder". The case length gage looks very similar to the decapping pin in a sizing die. It is a metal rod with a pin on the end. This is what determines the length of the trimmed brass. This rod goes inside the case mouth and the pin on the end of the rod goes in the primer flash hole. When the pin bottoms out, the cutter can advance no further. The shellholder that goes with it, is not a standard shellholder and you cannot use the same shellholder on your press.
So in summary, what I would like to have is a Lee die set that contains a sizing/depriming die, a bullet seating die, a factory crimp die, at least two bullet seaters, a shellholder to be used in the reloading operation, and a Lee Case Length Gage & Shellholder for use with the Zip Trim. |
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Posted: 4/28/2003 5:33:05 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Ok , I need a count of how many want a case trimmer stem also ? I don't know what this is, but I suspect it would make life easier once I get around to reloading. [;)] Something tells me I should start practice by reloading some 5.56 brass before tackling this monster. *chuckle* |
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Posted: 4/28/2003 5:37:59 AM EDT
[#28]
Put me down for 1 of everything available. [:)]
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Posted: 4/28/2003 6:00:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Please explain...What is a case trimmer stem? I might want one.
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Posted: 4/28/2003 6:53:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Please count me in for one (or two if we aren't quite at 25...) of EVERYTHING.
I started using the case length gauge and trimmer system for my other rifle rounds just recently. That is the slickest method for the least money that I have ever tried! The Trimmer stem screws in to a handle that has cutting teeth. The Shell holder clamps the case in a simple stem that you can chuck in your drill, or hold by hand. You insert the trimmer stem through the primer flash hole, and it bottoms out at the proper "Trim-To" length. Instead of the "Zip-Trim", I just chuck the shell holder in my cordless drill. That way, I have a truly portable system. I can trim cases over a trash can while watching TV.... I also use it for Flash hole deburring. While you have the case chucked up, just insert your flash hole deburring tool. In my humble opinion, if you haven't reloaded before, I would suggest that you start with pistol...The straight walled cases and super hard dies are much more forgiving than rifle... I have never lubed a pistol case, and I have never stuck one in a die! |
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Posted: 4/28/2003 8:56:20 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm in for it all....two (2) complete sets if you don't mind.
Dave S CH4D, just damn........... |
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Posted: 4/28/2003 4:03:15 PM EDT
[#32]
Include me in on the Lee dies, seater stems, case trimmer and shell holder also.
The whole ball of wax JoeDa |
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Posted: 4/28/2003 5:14:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: holeshot, I called CH4D today and said I wanted to talk to someone about a problem with .458 SOCOM reloading dies. The lady that answered the phone said "seating die stem?" [;)] They put the correct one in the mail to me. You might want to give them a call too. Thanks for the info. I will give them a call tomorrow. I hope everything else works out OK! I really hate to have to buy more dies when these already cost three times as much as any of my other dies. Oh well...[rolleyes] Thanks again Marvl. |
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Posted: 4/28/2003 5:34:55 PM EDT
[#34]
Guys, I had Lee make a set of custom dies for a 300 Imperial(.30/404 35 before the Ultra mags came out). The collet die and factory crimp die worked great. You do not need a collet die, but I love the factory crimp.
Edited to add the case trimmer stem worked well also, though I really did not need it much with the collett dies. I would suggest using a hand drill also to hold the case and the drill, the drill will have some wobble in it and you can correct for that by holding both. You will also need to camfer the inside and out after that cutter gets done with your brass. |
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Posted: 4/29/2003 6:42:36 AM EDT
[#35]
I'll go in for 1 complete set of the dies.
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Posted: 4/29/2003 6:46:02 AM EDT
[#36]
Just to clarify:
Who is handling the actual coordination with Lee? I assume, maybe at my detriment, that the person handling the group buy will outline all the available items being tossed about and their costs. It sounds like we are getting back in to the hundreds of dollars with the dies costing $40+, then all these add-ons. I want to buy the Lee set just in case my CH4D set blows ass, if the CH4D's work then I'll just EE my Lee set. Ed |
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Posted: 4/29/2003 7:07:38 AM EDT
[#37]
Yeah, I too would like to see a detailed quote with options. It sounded good at $27, but now I'm not sure.
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Posted: 4/29/2003 1:00:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Ok guys . I just got off the phone with John Lee again . He is awaiting a package Marty is sending him with dimensions and some fired cases . I will be sending him a box with an assortment of bullets to use to make the seating stems . Lee said its a bit early to give me an exact price yet until he gets this stuff so he can see what is needed .I told him we didn't mind paying a little more for more stems but we just want these dies to be RIGHT .He did say it should not be much more than a standard die set so I'm guessing he means around the 42$ he originally quoted me,but we can hope for less . Once I get a firm price from him I will post it and a list of what we will be getting . Then you guys can call him and confirm this if you want .Oh ya , and I also told him about the interest in the set up for the Zip Trim , no problem .
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Posted: 5/3/2003 4:16:38 PM EDT
[#39]
any news yet?
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Posted: 5/3/2003 6:16:53 PM EDT
[#40]
Count me in for 1 of EVERYTHING!
I don't have an upper yet but hope to get one within the year. BTW, if the dies are right and deliver good rounds, the price difference between $28 and $70-80 can be negated with a few frustrating minutes at the bench. Just my .02 cents worth. Let me know where to send the money and payment will be on its way. Thanks |
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Posted: 5/5/2003 4:58:03 AM EDT
[#41]
WAZZUP?
In for two (2). Dave S |
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Posted: 5/5/2003 6:17:20 AM EDT
[#42]
I will be sending the box with several bullet samples to Lee on Thursday . Sorry for the delay guys but I cant send them what I don't have yet .
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Posted: 5/5/2003 5:25:03 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm in for a complete set. Let me know where to send my money.
Thanks! |
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Posted: 5/6/2003 4:39:07 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: I will be sending the box with several bullet samples to Lee on Thursday . Sorry for the delay guys but I cant send them what I don't have yet . Pahr, If you need anything like that, just ask. I could send you, or Lee, samples of the 300gn, 500gn, 300gn Barns, or the 300gn Sintfire frangible... ...here to help if I can. (we all would be happy to I'm sure) Best, --LS |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 8:11:08 AM EDT
[#45]
Would you guys be willing to provide sample bullets ? I have no problem with having several stems but lets get together and agree on maybe three or four tops ok .If you send me sample bullets I will include them in with the others . IM me for address . I did and no one responded . I should be getting some stuff in today from Midway that should cover it but I might take you up on the frangible sample . |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 8:49:13 AM EDT
[#46]
I can send you a 600gr Barnes if you need it
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Posted: 5/7/2003 8:57:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Does CH4D know about this thread?
Dave S BTW, did I say I'm in for two (2) even though CH4D has @$200 from me on two (2) sets of their dies? |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:03:45 AM EDT
[#48]
Remove me from the group purchase. Mine's up for sale. I just can't justify the time for this endeavour right now. Too much going on. The gun and the round are great, just not right now. Is there a marketplace on this board to sell firearms? I cna't see it but the board is pretty big. I would just post it here but I don't know if that is allowed or not.
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:11:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Remove me from the group purchase. Mine's up for sale. I just can't justify the time for this endeavour right now. Too much going on. The gun and the round are great, just not right now. Is there a marketplace on this board to sell firearms? I cna't see it but the board is pretty big. I would just post it here but I don't know if that is allowed or not. [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/board.html?b=7]Equipment Exchange[/url] If you are selling just the upper then you will want to post it in the AR15 Parts Forum. If you are selling a complete AR then you want the Rifle & Shotgun or Complete AR forum. Good luck.... Sorry to hear you are out. [:(] |
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Posted: 5/7/2003 9:33:09 AM EDT
[#50]
So am I. I just have to get rid of something and generate some funds so this unfortunatley is it. Here is a link to the sale if anyone is interested.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=165189 Thanks for all the info, the knowledge I gained from this experience was well worth it. |
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