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Posted: 2/13/2024 11:07:01 AM EDT
Buying my first AK, I'm not a purist. It the FN barrel on the PSA worth the approximately $350.00 premium over the PSA standard barrel?
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Posted: 2/13/2024 12:12:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Great question, just going by AR's I can get regular nitride barrels for as cheap as 80 bucks, maybe 120 for a nicer one. And CHF barrels are usually close to 300 (though I have gotten them much cheaper.
So going by that, i'd have to say a 350 dollar markup is kinda gougy, 200 bucks sure, but 350...... But it's a lot harder to swap a barrel out on an AK than it is an AR. So maybe they figure that in. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 5:22:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Why bother swapping out a barrel in a factory built gun? That's not worth the effort. Just build another with a different barrel.
IMHO, nitrided barrel is fine for 99% of people. I wouldn't spend the extra coin just as I don't spend the extra coin for AR barrels. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 5:41:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Which models are you looking at, OP? The models with the FN barrel also seem to come with upgraded triggers, too.
GF3: nitride barrel, standard trigger GF4: CHF/CL barrel, NiB trigger GF5: FN CHF/CL barrel, ALG trigger There are also differences in the furniture. Models with basic plastic are cheaper than wood or with metal rails with mlok. Folding stocks are more than fixed stocks. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 5:50:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Unless you plan on shooting 5k+ rounds I don't see how it would matter. But then again, what is $350 over a lifetime? Will $350 break you, or can you swing $350? In 10 years do you wish you would have kept that $350 and done something else with it? Those are the real questions.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 8:55:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brawnydog: Unless you plan on shooting 5k+ rounds I don't see how it would matter. But then again, what is $350 over a lifetime? Will $350 break you, or can you swing $350? In 10 years do you wish you would have kept that $350 and done something else with it? Those are the real questions. Is somehow nitrided only good for 5k rounds? For some reason I remember it being very good for high round count barrels in MGs. 5k in a semi gun is nothing. |
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Posted: 2/13/2024 9:46:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: Is somehow nitrided only good for 5k rounds? For some reason I remember it being very good for high round count barrels in MGs. 5k in a semi gun is nothing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: Originally Posted By Brawnydog: Unless you plan on shooting 5k+ rounds I don't see how it would matter. But then again, what is $350 over a lifetime? Will $350 break you, or can you swing $350? In 10 years do you wish you would have kept that $350 and done something else with it? Those are the real questions. Is somehow nitrided only good for 5k rounds? For some reason I remember it being very good for high round count barrels in MGs. 5k in a semi gun is nothing. 5k seems very low |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 2/13/2024 11:18:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: Is somehow nitrided only good for 5k rounds? For some reason I remember it being very good for high round count barrels in MGs. 5k in a semi gun is nothing. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 12:31:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: IMHO, nitrided barrel is fine for 99% of people. I wouldn't spend the extra coin just as I don't spend the extra coin for AR barrels. Wow.  I am the complete opposite, when I build, the barrel is EVERYTHING, everything else comes second. I can shoot conservatively, way over half a million rounds out of the few rifles i own now, before i'd ever have to change a barrel. I can shoot a lot between now and the time I die, and still leave my children with heirlooms that they can shoot for many years themselves with no loss of accuracy. Don't see a point in bic-lighter barrels. Though I do think that 350 dollah premium is gouging a bit, i've bought CHF FN barrels on this very site for AR's for 150 bucks. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:23:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dragynn: Wow. I am the complete opposite, when I build, the barrel is EVERYTHING, everything else comes second. I can shoot conservatively, way over half a million rounds out of the few rifles i own now, before i'd ever have to change a barrel. I can shoot a lot between now and the time I die, and still leave my children with heirlooms that they can shoot for many years themselves with no loss of accuracy. Don't see a point in bic-lighter barrels. Though I do think that 350 dollah premium is gouging a bit, i've bought CHF FN barrels on this very site for AR's for 150 bucks. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dragynn: Originally Posted By Deerhurst: IMHO, nitrided barrel is fine for 99% of people. I wouldn't spend the extra coin just as I don't spend the extra coin for AR barrels. Wow. I am the complete opposite, when I build, the barrel is EVERYTHING, everything else comes second. I can shoot conservatively, way over half a million rounds out of the few rifles i own now, before i'd ever have to change a barrel. I can shoot a lot between now and the time I die, and still leave my children with heirlooms that they can shoot for many years themselves with no loss of accuracy. Don't see a point in bic-lighter barrels. Though I do think that 350 dollah premium is gouging a bit, i've bought CHF FN barrels on this very site for AR's for 150 bucks. Is it a $350 mark up for the same configuration? I don't have a gf5 but all my PSA AKs are pretty much beaters and I got for cheap. I'd say $350 is worth the FN barrel, ALG trigger, and even cleaning rod though. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 10:33:36 AM EDT
[#10]
The Nitride barrel is fine. You're probably not going to shoot it out.
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Posted: 2/14/2024 11:42:36 AM EDT
[#11]
didn't I read something at some point about nitride being more accurate than chrome? I dunno, but I seem to recall something like that.
If you plan to blast a bunch, buy chrome. If you're gonna be out getting wet and muddy, buy chrome. If you want to sit at a bench, nitride should be good. Probably be fine in the other incidents I posted about too to be honest. I buy chrome for the longevity. That being said, there have been tests by forum members that have proven that the FN barrel is accurate. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:00:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Ok, got the info I needed. Thx, all!!!
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:41:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JamesJones: I'd say $350 is worth the FN barrel, ALG trigger, and even cleaning rod though. By and large I guess I agree, all my rifles have CHF barrels, and I don't regret the cost. And i'm one of the poors, lol, if I made good money it would be a no-brainer. But ya know, gotta try to lobby publicly for lower prices when I can.  |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/14/2024 1:58:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dragynn: Wow. I am the complete opposite, when I build, the barrel is EVERYTHING, everything else comes second. I can shoot conservatively, way over half a million rounds out of the few rifles i own now, before i'd ever have to change a barrel. I can shoot a lot between now and the time I die, and still leave my children with heirlooms that they can shoot for many years themselves with no loss of accuracy. Don't see a point in bic-lighter barrels. Though I do think that 350 dollah premium is gouging a bit, i've bought CHF FN barrels on this very site for AR's for 150 bucks. It's an AK or an AR. It's not a precision firearm. Decent nitrided barrel is still more accurate than a chrome lined. Good nitrided barrel will outshoot most users and outlive most owners. If I want to spend the coin for a decent barrel it won't be in an AR or AK. That said, I have a $750 barrel in my belt fed. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:02:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nictra: didn't I read something at some point about nitride being more accurate than chrome? That may be more true in the last of 223 and other calibers where you can get high quality ammo. In 7.62x39 land of steel cased doodoo, the FN CHF ones are as good or better than the other options. There's more than a few videos of them putting up 1.5MOA and better at various distances. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 3:05:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: It's an AK or an AR. It's not a precision firearm. Decent nitrided barrel is still more accurate than a chrome lined. Good nitrided barrel will outshoot most users and outlive most owners. If I want to spend the coin for a decent barrel it won't be in an AR or AK. That said, I have a $750 barrel in my belt fed. Any AR or AK can be a precision firearm, again, the barrel. My gunsmith guru built himself a 3/8 MOA AR. He offered to build me one but I declined, we also sat down and spec'd out a sub MOA AK but never got around to building it, it would have been very pricey and the barrel would not have been a CHF barrel and not one of these cheap nitride barrels either. I have a CHF chrome-lined barrel in one of my AR's that will do 1 MOA. And it will last 2-5 times or more than a #justasgood nitride barrel will. My AK's all shoot good groups, a couple of them will hit 1.5 MOA pretty regularly with the right ammo. But maybe you're right, for the majority nitride might do just fine I guess, after 50 years of shooting I can tell you that maybe one guy out of a thousand will actually shoot off-hand at the range, everybody else squats on a bench, shoots 100 rounds real slow, then leaves. Shame that.  But that mantra about the barrel outliving most owners, I mean c'mon, if you're a 20 year old guy you might have 60 years of shooting ahead of you, before I ever shot my first USPSA match back in the 90's, I reloaded my own .45 and I went to the range 3 times a week for several months, shooting 250-300 rounds every time. It's not that hard to rack up a serious round count if you are serious about the hobby, as Nictra pointed out, it's a pay to play hobby, don't know why people assume that every person who buys a semi-automatic firearm is just gonna use it for a wall hanger. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/14/2024 5:43:25 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: That may be more true in the last of 223 and other calibers where you can get high quality ammo. In 7.62x39 land of steel cased doodoo, the FN CHF ones are as good or better than the other options. There's more than a few videos of them putting up 1.5MOA and better at various distances. The accuracy issue is in how consistent the chrome can be applied in the bore. Doesn't really have much to do with the projo if using all decent projos. All things equal the chrome lined will net poorer accuracy/consistency. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 5:48:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Deerhurst: All things equal the chrome lined will net poorer accuracy/consistency. But you already said that accuracy wasn't really the reason people buy AK's and AR's in the first place, by that logic it shouldn't matter and why not go for the barrel that's going to last much much longer?  |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/14/2024 5:51:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dragynn: Any AR or AK can be a precision firearm, again, the barrel. My gunsmith guru built himself a 3/8 MOA AR. He offered to build me one but I declined, we also sat down and spec'd out a sub MOA AK but never got around to building it, it would have been very pricey and the barrel would not have been a CHF barrel and not one of these cheap nitride barrels either. I have a CHF chrome-lined barrel in one of my AR's that will do 1 MOA. And it will last 2-5 times or more than a #justasgood nitride barrel will. My AK's all shoot good groups, a couple of them will hit 1.5 MOA pretty regularly with the right ammo. But maybe you're right, for the majority nitride might do just fine I guess, after 50 years of shooting I can tell you that maybe one guy out of a thousand will actually shoot off-hand at the range, everybody else squats on a bench, shoots 100 rounds real slow, then leaves. Shame that. But that mantra about the barrel outliving most owners, I mean c'mon, if you're a 20 year old guy you might have 60 years of shooting ahead of you, before I ever shot my first USPSA match back in the 90's, I reloaded my own .45 and I went to the range 3 times a week for several months, shooting 250-300 rounds every time. It's not that hard to rack up a serious round count if you are serious about the hobby, as Nictra pointed out, it's a pay to play hobby, don't know why people assume that every person who buys a semi-automatic firearm is just gonna use it for a wall hanger. A buddy and I do sub minute with his nitride 14.5" 6Arc AR at 700 yards. It does good. Shoots better than my CHF AR10. We struggle to hit that target with that rifle. Depending on ammo even 300 yards on a 12x14" target can be a challenge. Very disappointed with that barrel. My belt fed does better. People assume a rifle won't be shot because of exactly what you said. People show up at the range, run a few rounds and that's it until next hunting season. You and I are in the minority having shot enough to wear out guns. 1000rnds is an afternoon or a single day class. At this rate I'll be replacing the factory barrel in my saiga I used to compete with when I shoot it out in a couple years. My ARs go largely untouched and I'm going to be feeding the MG barrels. Such is life. Almost everyone I know that is 70+ has never had to replace a barrel. I only know a few people that have and they shoot more than me. Most people will never replace a barrel due to being worn out. If you want to wear out barrels fast, FA is the way to do it. Semi auto is hardly any wear in comparison. |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 7:36:16 PM EDT
[#20]
@heavymetal762
You order yet? Gf5 furniture ready 699 You can probably get some surplus wood and a trigger for right about the same as the basic plastic gf5. Or IM me I have a couple sets of different polymer furniture sets and probably even a trigger I can send you for free (only if you actually order it  )
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Posted: 2/14/2024 8:22:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mancat]
[#21]
I shot out the leade in the throat of my Saiga .223 in less than 8k round of mostly steel case .223 which according to the internet should be impossible.
Chrome on the leade/rifle lands visibly cracked and chipped. Still shoots fine but the wear is visible. CHF isn't invincible |
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Posted: 2/14/2024 8:30:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancat: I shot out the leade in the throat of my Saiga .223 in less than 8k round of mostly steel case .223 which according to the internet should be impossible. Chrome on the leade/rifle lands visibly cracked and chipped. Still shoots fine but the wear is visible. CHF isn't invincible I think heat is the biggest factor. I just got back into AKs a couple years ago but I plan on shooting my cheap PSA AKs the most. As of now I can replace an entire gf3 a lot cheaper than a barrel on an import. Not that I can afford it on a x39 rifle either way. I'm going to try on my 101 though. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 1:06:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancat: I shot out the leade in the throat of my Saiga .223 in less than 8k round of mostly steel case .223 which according to the internet should be impossible. Chrome on the leade/rifle lands visibly cracked and chipped. Still shoots fine but the wear is visible. CHF isn't invincible I think you meant chrome isn't invincible as that was what failed on your barrel? The hammer-forging itself didn't fail, just thin chrome. One of the reasons I like FN barrels so much, that double chrome-lining gives me the warm and fuzzies. |
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Posted: 2/15/2024 8:21:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dragynn: I think you meant chrome isn't invincible as that was what failed on your barrel? The hammer-forging itself didn't fail, just thin chrome. One of the reasons I like FN barrels so much, that double chrome-lining gives me the warm and fuzzies. Yes that is what I meant It isn't just the chrome wither. Rifling itself is pretty sad looking in the leade. So both sort of fell short here |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2024 8:47:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By heavymetal762: Buying my first AK, I'm not a purist. It the FN barrel on the PSA worth the approximately $350.00 premium over the PSA standard barrel? 
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Posted: 2/15/2024 9:55:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JamesJones: @heavymetal762 You order yet? Gf5 furniture ready 699 You can probably get some surplus wood and a trigger for right about the same as the basic plastic gf5. Or IM me I have a couple sets of different polymer furniture sets and probably even a trigger I can send you for free (only if you actually order it )Thanks for the heads-up on this. The PSA store was selling this for 850, so ordering is the way to go. I'm using a Troy Alfa handguard (short) and gas tube, Magpul grip and probably a Zhukov folding stock. Already have everything I need, so this is perfect. Again, thanks!!! |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/26/2024 9:02:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Im going to jump in to say,
You’ll probably never see better then about 3MOA from an AK using steel cased ammo to start with. So, the question of, is a CHF barrel worth $350…? Depends. Does the extra possible 1/2 of a MOA out of the AK matter to you? Minute of chinamen is good enough for you, then you have your answer. For me, and my experience with AK stuff, lobbing rounds beyond 400 or so yds is a waste of time, you have to realize that its not a very precision instrument from the start and accept that. Most folks cant ever shoot out their barrels on their AK. Look at the hadgies in iraq and afghan using beat to piss 1970’s rifles full of mud and rust, probably never been cleaned once in their life,…and they still bang. All that being said, when i bought my poverty budget AR barrels in 2008 around the time obummer took over, i sprung for the CHF barrels and the performance is much better then buddies who totally cheaped out and bought gunshow no name brand barrels. Im happy with the consistency of my FN ar barrels, and im also content with the AK being a closer range thumper that isnt ever going to be shooting 1” groups at 100yds. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 8:36:33 AM EDT
[#28]
another consideration is the bi-metal cartridges the steel case uses. Lots of discussion on the AR side of steel case prematurely wearing out barrels. I may have my terminology wrong, but basically the jacketing material on the Russian ammo wears barrels faster. May be another argument for chrome, I dunno.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 2/27/2024 9:30:19 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nictra: another consideration is the bi-metal cartridges the steel case uses. Lots of discussion on the AR side of steel case prematurely wearing out barrels. I may have my terminology wrong, but basically the jacketing material on the Russian ammo wears barrels faster. May be another argument for chrome, I dunno. It's been proven that by the time you wear out a barrel running steel you've only saved about the cost of a barrel. It takes a while with steel or brass case. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 10:14:22 AM EDT
[#30]
Like I said, just something I saw on the AR side. I used to shoot steel and honestly a thing I could get my hands on and never noticed this issue in my AKs or my ARs, was just throwing it out there in case there was any validity to it.
That being said, my highest round count rifle is my AKSU that has over 10k on it, and it still shoots accurately and I've only ever shot surplus or Wolf out of it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2024 1:06:45 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BrewerJA: Im going to jump in to say, You’ll probably never see better then about 3MOA from an AK using steel cased ammo to start with. So, the question of, is a CHF barrel worth $350…? Depends. Does the extra possible 1/2 of a MOA out of the AK matter to you? Minute of chinamen is good enough for you, then you have your answer. For me, and my experience with AK stuff, lobbing rounds beyond 400 or so yds is a waste of time, you have to realize that its not a very precision instrument from the start and accept that. Most folks cant ever shoot out their barrels on their AK. Look at the hadgies in iraq and afghan using beat to piss 1970’s rifles full of mud and rust, probably never been cleaned once in their life,…and they still bang. All that being said, when i bought my poverty budget AR barrels in 2008 around the time obummer took over, i sprung for the CHF barrels and the performance is much better then buddies who totally cheaped out and bought gunshow no name brand barrels. Im happy with the consistency of my FN ar barrels, and im also content with the AK being a closer range thumper that isnt ever going to be shooting 1” groups at 100yds. Great post!  But I would say that AK barrels have come a long way, and that sub 3 MOA barrels are a lot more common now, several guys here with PSA CHF barrels are reporting very good accuracy. Everything I own, AK's and AR's will shoot better than that. I would be more likely to try a cheap barrel with an AR than I would an AK, swapping the barrel in an AR is super easy, the AK not so much. But again, seems like a 350 dollah premium is a bit much, the most i've spent on a CHF AR barrel is 265 bucks and that was a limited run BA barrel that came with a 1 MOA guarantee, I paid just 300 bucks total for a PSA complete upper with CHF barrel and BCG/CH a few years back. I have several Spike's barrels that I got off the EE that are FN's, paid 150 bucks a piece new with an A2 front already pinned and delta ring assembly included. The EE here is fantastic at times, i've built whole rifles with parts sourced entirely from it. |
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Posted: 4/5/2024 12:31:43 AM EDT
[#32]
I know this thread has been dead for month but I'm gonna bring it back from the dead to say:
I think caliber should also go into the equation when selecting a barrel. The 22 caliber AK's have the higher velocities which tend to eat up barrels faster. Chrome might be a good investment to squeeze out more barrel life. If you're going with 7.62x39 with the lower velocity.... the extra savings from not getting chrome might be worth it to you. You don't hear about a lot of 30-30's getting shot out, but barrel life of a 220 swift may be measured in the hundreds of rounds. Obviously there are tons of other factors too like if you live in the jungle or the desert....or how often you like to do mag dumps..... or if you're shooting a lot of bi-metal bullets vs copper bullets.... but I just thought I'd throw in the caliber angle. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2024 7:35:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dmk0210]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By gogetumnow: The 22 caliber AK's have the higher velocities which tend to eat up barrels faster. Chrome might be a good investment to squeeze out more barrel life. If you're going with 7.62x39 with the lower velocity.... the extra savings from not getting chrome might be worth it to you. |
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