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Posted: 12/31/2008 9:59:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/31/2008 1:27:06 PM EST
We train both. No-gi at least once a week unless we have someone training for a fight then we do more no-gi for their sake. IMHO, gi training gives me better defense when rolling no-gi. When we get guys coming in from other schools that train no-gi only, they get destroyed when they put one on. They are not used to the leverage you can get using a gi handhold. They get choked easier and can't stop the armbar. I do however find no-gi rolling much faster.

BTW, I have used "modified" gi chokes with regular articles of clothing like jackets.
Link Posted: 1/1/2009 7:52:31 PM EST
The Gi gives a number of effective handles that are generally not there outside of a training environment. There are a number of techniques that are very difficult to apply without a Gi.

If you are looking for practical applications of BJJ for self defense purposes, then I recommend significant training without the Gi.
Link Posted: 1/6/2009 5:09:40 AM EST
If you are looking for practical applications of BJJ for self defense purposes, then I recommend significant training without the Gi.


I would think it would be the other way around. Everyone wears clothing, what is the differance from a gi and regular clothing? To me not much, I have used gi chokes twice on people who was wearining a t-shirt and sweat shirt.

IMHO, no gi for the octogan and gi for self defense.

Link Posted: 1/6/2009 6:48:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By celticfozzie:
If you are looking for practical applications of BJJ for self defense purposes, then I recommend significant training without the Gi.


I would think it would be the other way around. Everyone wears clothing, what is the differance from a gi and regular clothing? To me not much, I have used gi chokes twice on people who was wearining a t-shirt and sweat shirt.

IMHO, no gi for the octogan and gi for self defense.



Huh.... What kind of Gi are you using?
A heavy Judo-style Gi is NOT the same thing as a light Tae-Kwon-Do style Gi.

Those that I use are very heavy and worlds apart from street clothes. Using the same choke-hold with a T-shirt would end up tearing the shirt and failing at the choke. You can use a light Gi in Judo and Jujitsu, though they generally won't last long.

Street clothes have way too much give & stretch to be relied upon as an effective handle, especially if you are accustomed to training with a heavy Gi.

The no-Gi techniques are still effective weather or not your training partner (or opponent) is wearing a Gi. The Gi makes training easier - it provides more handles on your training partner that are typically not there in a self-defense situation.



Link Posted: 1/6/2009 8:00:58 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/6/2009 11:15:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By ChrisFry:
...
I choked a guy wearing a polo shirt one time, or at least attempted to until the shirt ripped and I lost that advantage ....
This illustrates one of my main points. People will break before a Gi does, and regular clothing will likely tear if you are using it as you would a Gi.

- this is the basis of my "no-Gi" argument:
The "no-Gi" training I do is simply a modification of the "with-Gi" training I do. You know the drill... "Get BOTH!"
Instead of using the Gi as a handle, change things to grip the underlying structure instead of the clothing - the arm instead of the sleeve; the neck instead of the collar, etc. It may be significant that I don't train for competition. In my late 40's that is not much of an option. I train for fun, fitness, and for self defense.

Also, going to the ground in a self-defense situation will almost always be a very bad idea - the Krav Maga folks stress this and I agree.
Put 'em down and get away. If that can't work quickly enough:
Put 'em down & change their focus (hurt them), and get away. If that can't work quickly enough:
Put 'em down and make it so they won't be getting up anytime soon.

Chokes are great for submissions, which is great for competition, training, or handling a drunk & belligerent Uncle Charley (or anyone else you don't really want to hurt). Done correctly there is no lasting harm.

Chokes are not on my list of responses in an actual self-defense situation.
Link Posted: 1/6/2009 2:35:28 PM EST
GI: RGDA BJJ school (TotalJJ)

NO-GI: A mma school and a "semi-gi-less" bjj school, both in the FT. Wayne area.

I train more in no-gi than I do in gi, but I like the gi better (I think you learn more technique and develop a better defensive game).

tim
Link Posted: 1/6/2009 2:58:46 PM EST
I'm not gonna get into the whole gi vs no-gi thing. I train both and feel that they complement each other. Gi or No-Gi, train both.....9mm vs 45 own both. Problem solved.
Link Posted: 1/7/2009 4:25:12 PM EST
Huh.... What kind of Gi are you using?
A heavy Judo-style Gi is NOT the same thing as a light Tae-Kwon-Do style Gi.

Those that I use are very heavy and worlds apart from street clothes. Using the same choke-hold with a T-shirt would end up tearing the shirt and failing at the choke. You can use a light Gi in Judo and Jujitsu, though they generally won't last long.

Street clothes have way too much give & stretch to be relied upon as an effective handle, especially if you are accustomed to training with a heavy Gi.

The no-Gi techniques are still effective weather or not your training partner (or opponent) is wearing a Gi. The Gi makes training easier - it provides more handles on your training partner that are typically not there in a self-defense situation.


I use double weave judo gi's. I think you missed my point.
Yes the Gi is sturdier then regular clothing, Yes, street cloths will have more give, No, I do not believe training w/ a gi is easier. Like I said most any technique you do w/ a gi you can do w/ street cloths. I have used gi chokes twice on people who were wearing street cloths. So training w/ the gi helped me in my two altercations.

Link Posted: 1/15/2009 4:54:51 PM EST
I believe training with gi and no-gi are important. If I could only pick one form, then it would be no-gi.

But, in my humble opinion, I think no-gi training should be incorporated later. For beginners, I think using the gi is important to training. I think a single weave gi is a good, and I haven't really been a fan of double weave gis, because they are too heavy.

For self defense, using a gi can help with chokes incorporating someone's clothing. When I was first introduced to jiu-jitsu, I was rolling with a purple belt, and he used a gi choke on me, and I was wearing a t-shirt.

So, there are benefits to both.
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 5:12:25 PM EST
Get both.

I'd start with gi in a traditional BBJ dojo to learn the basics.

There are pros and cons to both.
Link Posted: 1/17/2009 5:15:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By KOBK:
GI: RGDA BJJ school (TotalJJ)

NO-GI: A mma school and a "semi-gi-less" bjj school, both in the FT. Wayne area.

I train more in no-gi than I do in gi, but I like the gi better (I think you learn more technique and develop a better defensive game).

tim


Bingo.

That's the best reason to learn with the gi. Having a dozen 'handles' on your body makes you keenly aware of what you are doing right, or wrong. It teaches you how to be less vulnerable.

This is one thing that critics of gi training often overlook.

Link Posted: 1/17/2009 5:16:18 PM EST
BTW - we have an Official BJJ thread!

Please post there if you are so inclined.

Official BJJ thread
Link Posted: 1/23/2009 8:50:40 PM EST
Originally Posted By HBruns:[/span

Also, going to the ground in a self-defense situation will almost always be a very bad idea - the Krav Maga folks stress this and I agree.
Put 'em down and get away. If that can't work quickly enough:
Put 'em down & change their focus (hurt them), and get away. If that can't work quickly enough:
Put 'em down and make it so they won't be getting up anytime soon.

Chokes are great for submissions, which is great for competition, training, or handling a drunk & belligerent Uncle Charley (or anyone else you don't really want to hurt). Done correctly there is no lasting harm.

Chokes are not on my list of responses in an actual self-defense situation.


I think you'll find many people disagree with you on this one. Unless you are dealing with more than one opponent that is.

Link Posted: 2/16/2009 12:03:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By TobyLazur:
Originally Posted By HBruns:[/span

Also, going to the ground in a self-defense situation will almost always be a very bad idea - the Krav Maga folks stress this and I agree.
Put 'em down and get away. If that can't work quickly enough:
Put 'em down & change their focus (hurt them), and get away. If [span style='font-style: italic;']that
can't work quickly enough:
Put 'em down and make it so they won't be getting up anytime soon.

Chokes are great for submissions, which is great for competition, training, or handling a drunk & belligerent Uncle Charley (or anyone else you don't really want to hurt). Done correctly there is no lasting harm.

Chokes are not on my list of responses in an actual self-defense situation.


I think you'll find many people disagree with you on this one. Unless you are dealing with more than one opponent that is.


I would say so...you need to have a stand up game as well as a ground game..Id say most fights end on the ground, learn to fight on the ground..more options and tricks the better..Alot of people are learning submission grappling or BJJ, so if your just a stand up type of guy you will be very disappointed some day..Just my 2 cents though..what do i know..

Rich



Link Posted: 3/19/2009 9:06:30 AM EST
I truly believe that when you START training in BJJ the first few years it is important to Train in the GI. then as you get better and better at the art I think the Focus should be changed to NO gi. in the begining the gi takes the sweat away and creates more friction so its easier for beginner students to catch submisssions. as the student gets better i think its important to do less and less with the Gi so you dont develop any GI specific set ups that wont be there when the GI's come off
Rob Kahn
gracietampa.com
Link Posted: 3/19/2009 9:09:48 AM EST
i don't like the Gi..
Link Posted: 3/20/2009 7:09:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By gracietampa:
I truly believe that when you START training in BJJ the first few years it is important to Train in the GI. then as you get better and better at the art I think the Focus should be changed to NO gi. in the begining the gi takes the sweat away and creates more friction so its easier for beginner students to catch submisssions. as the student gets better i think its important to do less and less with the Gi so you dont develop any GI specific set ups that wont be there when the GI's come off
Rob Kahn
gracietampa.com


I think in general the quality of instruction that you can get for gi fighting is higher than the quality of instruction available in no-gi. This isn't to bash no-gi, it's just less developed than gi based JJ. For that reason alone, it probably makes sense for people to start in gi.

Since I do both, I don't have direct experience to support this, but it seems like it would be easier to transition no-gi to gi than the other way around. If you can control the opponents body without a gi, the gi just gives you more grips (although grip fighting becomes a much more important part of the roll). However, I agree that gi is probably easier to learn, so maybe that's a better counter argument...
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 11:18:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By gracietampa:
I truly believe that when you START training in BJJ the first few years it is important to Train in the GI. then as you get better and better at the art I think the Focus should be changed to NO gi. in the begining the gi takes the sweat away and creates more friction so its easier for beginner students to catch submisssions. as the student gets better i think its important to do less and less with the Gi so you dont develop any GI specific set ups that wont be there when the GI's come off
Rob Kahn
gracietampa.com


lol. I was going to add my .02, but Rob Kahn is a Royce Gracie black belt, for those that don't know.

Rob - at what level do you think people should switch to primarily training without the gi? Do you think it's worthwhile to train with both, like 3 days gi / 1 day no-gi, or just focus solely on one at a time?
Link Posted: 4/2/2009 11:13:56 AM EST
both, but mostly No-gi
Link Posted: 6/15/2009 9:08:53 PM EST
I don't mean to come across as a dumbass but what is gi no-gi? I've been thinking awfully hard about taking bjj,and just found a gym that teaches it locally.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 1:08:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By armsman:
I don't mean to come across as a dumbass but what is gi no-gi? I've been thinking awfully hard about taking bjj,and just found a gym that teaches it locally.


Gi/no-gi is a religious argument.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu trains in a uniform called a gi. When you are fighting, it's legal to grip your opponent's gi and use this to control him.

In no-gi, you do not wear a uniform, and cannot grip the clothing of your opponent. Many of the things that work under gi rules won't work without the gi, and vice versa.

If you found a gym that teaches BJJ, that generally implies a gi, but they may have no-gi classes as well.

Link Posted: 6/16/2009 1:31:50 AM EST
I say no gi for mma... but like it or not... gi for basic fundamentals. you're just more careful with a gi because you can get caught in a submission or swept so much easier. No-gi is a lot faster pace to me. I like no-gi better.
Link Posted: 6/16/2009 12:30:22 PM EST
I did No-Gi for a year and I enjoyed it. However, the Gi guys who went to No-Gi classes were usually more technically advanced. I didn't have time for Gi with my other classes (muay thai and boxing) and I couldn't afford a good Gi.

I'd suggest doing both. 2x the training is never a bad thing.
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