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Posted: 8/12/2022 10:54:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Good
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:00:53 AM EDT
[#2]
https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/regional-news/24-hours-after-off-duty-officers-were-told-they-cant-bring-guns-to-fair-state-clarifies-they-can/
GEDDES, N.Y. (WSYR-TV) — New York State will allow off-duty police officers to carry weapons at the State Fair, as they always were, just 24 hours after they were told they’d no longer be allowed to enter with their guns. A spokesperson for the New York State Fair confirmed the clarification to partnering NewsChannel 9, several hours after the interim director of the State Fair personally called the Onondaga County Sheriff with the update. “The bottom line here is that we have many, many police officers who obviously all have the training and are very proficient in firearms. Of course, we hope we never have to use them, but the reality of this situation is, is that we have seen too many mass casualties at mass gatherings. How do we best address it? I think it’s always best if you have more law enforcement present, whether off duty or on duty than less,” said Onondaga County Sheriff Gene Conway. -------- Irrelevant to the oncoming 9/1 disaster anyway. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:32:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Very proficient with firearms
Lol Lmfao That is such bullshit……ask me how I know |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 11:46:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Imagine the melt down if they had to follow all the other rules
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Posted: 8/12/2022 1:29:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Police officers are starting to feel our pain  No they're not. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 3:32:57 PM EDT
[#6]
I've always been armed at the Fair
It's Syracuse, after all I also stopped going a few years ago, so its a non-issue. |
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Posted: 8/12/2022 6:35:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/regional-news/24-hours-after-off-duty-officers-were-told-they-cant-bring-guns-to-fair-state-clarifies-they-can/ GEDDES, N.Y. (WSYR-TV) — New York State will allow off-duty police officers to carry weapons at the State Fair, as they always were, just 24 hours after they were told they’d no longer be allowed to enter with their guns. A spokesperson for the New York State Fair confirmed the clarification to partnering NewsChannel 9, several hours after the interim director of the State Fair personally called the Onondaga County Sheriff with the update. “The bottom line here is that we have many, many police officers who obviously all have the training and are very proficient in firearms. Of course, we hope we never have to use them, but the reality of this situation is, is that we have seen too many mass casualties at mass gatherings. How do we best address it? I think it’s always best if you have more law enforcement present, whether off duty or on duty than less,” said Onondaga County Sheriff Gene Conway. 
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Posted: 8/12/2022 7:57:51 PM EDT
[#8]
let me guess law enforcement is exempt from these new red flag laws that Hochul announced today .
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Posted: 8/13/2022 4:55:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Nope
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Posted: 8/13/2022 10:56:11 PM EDT
[#10]
So after I do the NYSP Directed 16 hour Course and 2 hours worth of qualification and test out at 80% or better then I too will be trained sufficient enough to carry concealed at the State Fair or anywhere else right? That's about the same as a Cop has to, and a lot more than the LEOSA requirement.
Fuck these mother fuckers! It's getting past the time of "do not comply" and wearing a Badge doesn't automatically make a Cop a better person than a Civilian... Dannamora is testimony to that. 
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Posted: 8/14/2022 8:39:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Most here know that I’m an LEO
I don’t support carve outs for LE…..what’s good for goose is good for the rest of the Geese I really believe the only way to get the message across to LE agencies that support anti 2A laws and special people carve outs is for the gun manufacturers to STOP doing business with LE agencies in NY like Barrett did. The very manufacturers choose profit over rights |
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Posted: 8/14/2022 2:41:39 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most here know that I’m an LEO I don’t support carve outs for LE…..what’s good for goose is good for the rest of the Geese I really believe the only way to get the message across to LE agencies that support anti 2A laws and special people carve outs is for the gun manufacturers to STOP doing business with LE agencies in NY like Barrett did. The very manufacturers choose profit over rights Barrett may have officially stopped selling directly to NY agencies, but they still seem to be able to get Barrett products when they want them. Gun companies with an international customer base are used to gun laws that are far worse than anything we have here in the USA. Canada, for instance, just stopped all handgun sales in the country. Do you think Canadian law enforcement agencies will be unable to obtain any Glocks, Sigs, etc that they would like to purchase? I highly doubt it. |
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Posted: 8/14/2022 4:43:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Off duty should be held to the same laws as everyone else.
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Posted: 8/14/2022 11:11:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Off duty should be held to the same laws as everyone else. Absolutely. I was speaking to a friend last night who investigates sex crimes for the state. Sworn officer, and the state entity she works for is headed by an anti-gun liberal. So they aren’t allowed to carry outside the office, and their weapon has to be locked up in the office when they are there. Basically they are authorized to carry their duty gun on them to and from the office but not in the field during the course of their investigations or while at their desk. I picked my jaw off up the floor and asked her what the point was. She doesn’t have a pistol permit and is now going to apply for one because she used to be able to carry on her badge everywhere but her agency has restricted it. |
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Posted: 8/14/2022 11:29:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolutely. I was speaking to a friend last night who investigates sex crimes for the state. Sworn officer, and the state entity she works for is headed by an anti-gun liberal. So they aren’t allowed to carry outside the office, and their weapon has to be locked up in the office when they are there. Basically they are authorized to carry their duty gun on them to and from the office but not in the field during the course of their investigations or while at their desk. I picked my jaw off up the floor and asked her what the point was. She doesn’t have a pistol permit and is now going to apply for one because she used to be able to carry on her badge everywhere but her agency has restricted it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Off duty should be held to the same laws as everyone else. Absolutely. I was speaking to a friend last night who investigates sex crimes for the state. Sworn officer, and the state entity she works for is headed by an anti-gun liberal. So they aren’t allowed to carry outside the office, and their weapon has to be locked up in the office when they are there. Basically they are authorized to carry their duty gun on them to and from the office but not in the field during the course of their investigations or while at their desk. I picked my jaw off up the floor and asked her what the point was. She doesn’t have a pistol permit and is now going to apply for one because she used to be able to carry on her badge everywhere but her agency has restricted it. If she is a LEO with arrest powers, her agency cannot restrict her ability to carry off duty. |
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Posted: 8/14/2022 11:37:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If she is a LEO with arrest powers, her agency cannot restrict her ability to carry off duty. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Off duty should be held to the same laws as everyone else. Absolutely. I was speaking to a friend last night who investigates sex crimes for the state. Sworn officer, and the state entity she works for is headed by an anti-gun liberal. So they aren’t allowed to carry outside the office, and their weapon has to be locked up in the office when they are there. Basically they are authorized to carry their duty gun on them to and from the office but not in the field during the course of their investigations or while at their desk. I picked my jaw off up the floor and asked her what the point was. She doesn’t have a pistol permit and is now going to apply for one because she used to be able to carry on her badge everywhere but her agency has restricted it. If she is a LEO with arrest powers, her agency cannot restrict her ability to carry off duty. I guess somebody needs to explain that to the agency commissioner. I was flabbergasted. I don’t think you get issued a gun if you don’t also have arrest powers, but I’m no expert on that. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 7:07:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If she is a LEO with arrest powers, her agency cannot restrict her ability to carry off duty. Just guessing here. I'm guessing that the friend has peace officer status, not police officer status. So they can be armed while on duty in the performance of their duties only.Sounds like the agency head doesn't want them armed in the building or on calls, so they're restricting the subordinates as much as they can under agency policy. Getting her pistol permit is an option, but considering how governor Hoochie is gutting permits September 1st it's a limited solution |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 9:54:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Barrett may have officially stopped selling directly to NY agencies, but they still seem to be able to get Barrett products when they want them. Gun companies with an international customer base are used to gun laws that are far worse than anything we have here in the USA. Canada, for instance, just stopped all handgun sales in the country. Do you think Canadian law enforcement agencies will be unable to obtain any Glocks, Sigs, etc that they would like to purchase? I highly doubt it. They should but sadly there will always be a Bill Ruger there to sell to the .gov |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 10:12:43 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just guessing here. I'm guessing that the friend has peace officer status, not police officer status. So they can be armed while on duty in the performance of their duties only.Sounds like the agency head doesn't want them armed in the building or on calls, so they're restricting the subordinates as much as they can under agency policy. Getting her pistol permit is an option, but considering how governor Hoochie is gutting permits September 1st it's a limited solution Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If she is a LEO with arrest powers, her agency cannot restrict her ability to carry off duty. Just guessing here. I'm guessing that the friend has peace officer status, not police officer status. So they can be armed while on duty in the performance of their duties only.Sounds like the agency head doesn't want them armed in the building or on calls, so they're restricting the subordinates as much as they can under agency policy. Getting her pistol permit is an option, but considering how governor Hoochie is gutting permits September 1st it's a limited solution You're probably right on the peace officer status. She was formerly with a police agency and transferred to this job when she started a family and didn't want to be on patrol. |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 10:14:49 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They should but sadly there will always be a Bill Ruger there to sell to the .gov Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Barrett may have officially stopped selling directly to NY agencies, but they still seem to be able to get Barrett products when they want them. Gun companies with an international customer base are used to gun laws that are far worse than anything we have here in the USA. Canada, for instance, just stopped all handgun sales in the country. Do you think Canadian law enforcement agencies will be unable to obtain any Glocks, Sigs, etc that they would like to purchase? I highly doubt it. They should but sadly there will always be a Bill Ruger there to sell to the .gov There is far more than just Ruger |
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Posted: 8/15/2022 6:04:22 PM EDT
[#21]
Oh sure but nobody I'm aware of campaigned so hard for restrictions in the hopes of selling more of his stuff. Springfield maybe in recent history
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Posted: 8/21/2022 9:02:58 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So after I do the NYSP Directed 16 hour Course and 2 hours worth of qualification and test out at 80% or better then I too will be trained sufficient enough to carry concealed at the State Fair or anywhere else right? That's about the same as a Cop has to, and a lot more than the LEOSA requirement. Fuck these mother fuckers! It's getting past the time of "do not comply" and wearing a Badge doesn't automatically make a Cop a better person than a Civilian... Dannamora is testimony to that. Police officers do a minimum of 2 weeks (80 hrs) of firearms at the academy, some academies do more than that. |
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Posted: 8/21/2022 9:10:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Police officers do a minimum of 2 weeks (80 hrs) of firearms at the academy, some academies do more than that. The problem we're running into now is that the range portion of basic is no longer a failure out of the academy if you can't hack it. They apparently grade it on a curve now. We had a recent hire who made it through the academy and couldn't get through their FTO phase including their first range qualification at the agency. On down the road they went. Might still be picked up by some other agency since they did make it through the academy and got certified |
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Posted: 8/21/2022 10:49:59 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem we're running into now is that the range portion of basic is no longer a failure out of the academy if you can't hack it. They apparently grade it on a curve now. We had a recent hire who made it through the academy and couldn't get through their FTO phase including their first range qualification at the agency. On down the road they went. Might still be picked up by some other agency since they did make it through the academy and got certified Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Police officers do a minimum of 2 weeks (80 hrs) of firearms at the academy, some academies do more than that. The problem we're running into now is that the range portion of basic is no longer a failure out of the academy if you can't hack it. They apparently grade it on a curve now. We had a recent hire who made it through the academy and couldn't get through their FTO phase including their first range qualification at the agency. On down the road they went. Might still be picked up by some other agency since they did make it through the academy and got certified I should have better self control over what I post.  80 hours is a pretty good block of time to learn, and having been through Basic Training am reasonably certain that even the most unskilled can be brought up to qualifications standards IF they have the desire to... I suspect those that "just can't" might not really want to. Standards are set for real reasons for real circumstances: however the State throwing EVERYONE under the Bus with a demand of 18 hours of State Approved, Sanctioned Training, and a minimum 80% score before re-certification is hammer handed, unwarranted, and unrealistic.  Part of my anger comes from a statistical argument reflecting that there were more gun crimes committed by people with badges than CCW's. and (AFAIK) Clinton County is where they send former Law Enforcement. |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 1:05:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem we're running into now is that the range portion of basic is no longer a failure out of the academy if you can't hack it. They apparently grade it on a curve now. We had a recent hire who made it through the academy and couldn't get through their FTO phase including their first range qualification at the agency. On down the road they went. Might still be picked up by some other agency since they did make it through the academy and got certified One little LI dept kept a cop who couldn't pass their qual for 7 years. |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 1:08:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Standards are set for real reasons for real circumstances: however the State throwing EVERYONE under the Bus with a demand of 18 hours of State Approved, Sanctioned Training, and a minimum 80% score before re-certification is hammer handed, unwarranted, and unrealistic. Less hours, less actual shooting and higher score than a police recruit needs to attain. Totally reasonable. 
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Posted: 8/22/2022 1:58:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One little LI dept kept a cop who couldn't pass their qual for 7 years. Wouldn't happen here. You'd be flying a desk unarmed until you can qualify. Keep failing and you're gone. |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 7:01:08 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wouldn't happen here. You'd be flying a desk unarmed until you can qualify. Keep failing and you're gone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One little LI dept kept a cop who couldn't pass their qual for 7 years. Wouldn't happen here. You'd be flying a desk unarmed until you can qualify. Keep failing and you're gone. Same. You would have a desk job and remedial training and if you failed to attain a score of 85% on the qual you’d be out of a job |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 7:03:04 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Less hours, less actual shooting and higher score than a police recruit needs to attain. Totally reasonable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Standards are set for real reasons for real circumstances: however the State throwing EVERYONE under the Bus with a demand of 18 hours of State Approved, Sanctioned Training, and a minimum 80% score before re-certification is hammer handed, unwarranted, and unrealistic. Less hours, less actual shooting and higher score than a police recruit needs to attain. Totally reasonable. It’s not reasonable…….it’s ridiculous…..and intentional. The Constitution says nothing about training. Albeit I encourage people to train…..but for there own survival skills. |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 9:17:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s not reasonable…….it’s ridiculous…..and intentional. The Constitution says nothing about training. Albeit I encourage people to train…..but for there own survival skills. It’s important to have a “well regulated” I.e. well trained, proficient, competent militia in order to maintain a free state… Towards that end the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Training is of extreme importance. Many gun owners are neither trained or proficient. None the less, I agree that the 2A does not mandate training. It instead allows for ownership of arms to allow for training and proficiency which supports the militia which protects the free state. |
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Posted: 8/22/2022 11:49:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Haven't gone to the fair in 10 years. They got metal detectors now?
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Posted: 8/23/2022 6:47:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven't gone to the fair in 10 years. They got metal detectors now? Heard a weapons detection system. Wondering if they are getting some of those passive detection units like Vegas has that scan you as you walk by. Doesn’t matter, I won’t go ever again. |
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Posted: 8/23/2022 9:33:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haven't gone to the fair in 10 years. They got metal detectors now? |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 3:24:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heard a weapons detection system. Wondering if they are getting some of those passive detection units like Vegas has that scan you as you walk by. Doesn't matter, I won't go ever again. |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 8:49:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same. You would have a desk job and remedial training and if you failed to attain a score of 85% on the qual you’d be out of a job Have they set a passing score for the live fire course yet? They set the passing score of 80% for the written test. |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 9:53:16 PM EDT
[#36]
What if one disagrees with the written test?
I got docked on the science regents exam for a question that the “right” answer is wrong. I believe that question is still used. I flagged it before the exam, and I’m sure they still haven’t fixed it. And that was before the state went totally incompetent and political. I can’t imagine what sort of stupid questions might be on a NYS pistol exam. “Jim wakes to four children he doesn’t know looking in the drawers of his kitchen. One accidentally shoves Jim through a wall. Jim sees another child with what looks like an airsoft gun because it’s yellow. What should Jim do?” |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 9:56:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Have they set a passing score for the live fire course yet? They set the passing score of 80% for the written test. 80% as well. 4 of 5 shots must land on a 25 1/2” by 11” target at 4 yds.  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 10:08:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 80% as well. 4 of 5 shots must land on a 25 1/2" by 11" target at 4 yds. |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 10:28:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there anything stating that you can retake the written test if you fail it initially? Pay attention in the class and it won’t be that difficult pretty much common sense, there will be plenty of questions on self defense and duty to retreat and deescalation of a situation . |
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Posted: 8/24/2022 10:31:09 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pay attention in the class and it won't be that difficult pretty much common sense, there will be plenty of questions on self defense and duty to retreat and deescalation of a situation . |
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Posted: 8/25/2022 12:22:51 PM EDT
[#41]
I'm going to go out on a limb and assert that everyone here is a "gun guy" of some sorts and someone who has fire enough for the State's new requirements to be laughable, therefor irrelevant. The issue at hand is the requirement for 16 hours of varying instruction and who is going to be able to satisfy that requirement.
I'll have to read through pl265 again to see who meets those requirements, additionally there has to be Liability Insurance for the Instructor, and I can't help but wonder if said instructor could be held couplable should someone have a negligent or "bad shoot" happen down the road? Gotta take a real hard look at all this, the Legislature sure as fuck didn't. |
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Posted: 8/25/2022 2:35:28 PM EDT
[#42]
There is no way that it should take 16 hours to cover that. How much of the 16 hours will be filled with John Wick video clips demonstrating proper techniques?
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Posted: 8/25/2022 3:20:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no way that it should take 16 hours to cover that. How much of the 16 hours will be filled with John Wick video clips demonstrating proper techniques? You haven't seen how much the state can pad a training syllabus! |
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Posted: 8/25/2022 4:44:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You haven't seen how much the state can pad a training syllabus! Well you have to have 15 minute breaks ever two hours, and an hour for Lunch, and a half hour to explain the Fire Exits, the special accommodations for people with special needs, which Bathrooms are available for non-gender specific use, their locations, and how you really don't give a fuck about opinions only that you're there to fulfill a requirement.
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Posted: 8/25/2022 4:58:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well you have to have 15 minute breaks ever two hours, and an hour for Lunch, and a half hour to explain the Fire Exits, the special accommodations for people with special needs, which Bathrooms are available for non-gender specific use, their locations, and how you really don't give a fuck about opinions only that you're there to fulfill a requirement. I don't know what you might be hearing,but I'm hearing concerns from the training sector here that some instructors are questioning how they can personally teach some of the mandated non-firearm subjects without having personal expertise in those fields, whether they'll have to bring in verified experts in those areas, what sort of training materials the state will provide, etc. I'm beginning to wonder if the state will end up teaching a DCJS approved train the trainer class that will be required for anyone wanting to teach the mandated topics |
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Posted: 8/25/2022 7:24:28 PM EDT
[#46]
At least there is one 1 hr dedicated to marksmanship fundamentals
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Posted: 8/25/2022 7:56:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know what you might be hearing,but I'm hearing concerns from the training sector here that some instructors are questioning how they can personally teach some of the mandated non-firearm subjects without having personal expertise in those fields, whether they'll have to bring in verified experts in those areas, what sort of training materials the state will provide, etc. I'm beginning to wonder if the state will end up teaching a DCJS approved train the trainer class that will be required for anyone wanting to teach the mandated topics Yeah really. Conflict management and conflict de-escalation? Range officers don't know shit about that. Hell, most range officers I've seen are experts at ESCALATING bad situations. |
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Posted: 8/25/2022 9:27:20 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah really. Conflict management and conflict de-escalation? Range officers don't know shit about that. Hell, most range officers I've seen are experts at ESCALATING bad situations. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't know what you might be hearing,but I'm hearing concerns from the training sector here that some instructors are questioning how they can personally teach some of the mandated non-firearm subjects without having personal expertise in those fields, whether they'll have to bring in verified experts in those areas, what sort of training materials the state will provide, etc. I'm beginning to wonder if the state will end up teaching a DCJS approved train the trainer class that will be required for anyone wanting to teach the mandated topics Yeah really. Conflict management and conflict de-escalation? Range officers don't know shit about that. Hell, most range officers I've seen are experts at ESCALATING bad situations. You’ve never met me then |
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Posted: 8/26/2022 6:00:40 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At least there is one 1 hr dedicated to marksmanship fundamentals Probably 2 hours on BS statistics about why you shouldn’t have a gun in your home. And an hour on the major threat of right-wing white domestic terrorism. |
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